sconehead Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 ...and now on a lighter note... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rozHlnmZ6jg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxman Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 What the [censored]. They give the ban a name "Nanuq" has they always used this name for a ban? No mate..ban just means ban. Nanuq has nothing to do with the word ban. To be honest..Im personally happy to hear they baned Nanuq...that means he has to spend more time with us fake watch degenerates. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Random thought: There are probably a dozen or so people out there with Freddy333/Ubi/etc.. talents. Those similarly talented people are "assembling" Rolex's with Gen parts, and even a mix of Gen and quasi-acceptable aftermarket components. They are also, most likely, flying under the radar so as to sell those wares for profit on eBay and elsewhere. That said: It is admirable, that we share openly here. F333 could have constructed this item secretly, and probably sold it with a clever back story/description for $$$$$! Now to OS's point, and drawing unwanted attention. Some bridges have been burned, and a lot of information has been shared that could even burn some outsiders who have/had a hand in making parts, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxman Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 This has been an interesting thread. In response to the various comments about taking a gen part and modding it, guys on TRF do it all the time. They will add a red date wheel to a Yachtmaster, remove the cyclops, etc. In fact, Sheartime, a known and respected dealer in NYC recently listed a gen vintage Daytona dial which had the big red DAYTONA painted afterwards. It was clearly disclosed in the listing and no one said boo about it. It was a gen dial and it was repainted. I am a huge admirer of everything that is built here and Freddy's 6542 is as he claims. I certainly would love to have it on my wrist one day... "It was "clearly disclosed" In the listing and no one said boo about it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 I think comparing cars and watches is a good way to look at it. Years ago while in high school a friend bought a `67 Mustang. Within hours he changed the Ford 4bbl carb to a Holley double pumper. Of course the warranty was void, but it was never going back to Ford anyway. The thing is, it was still a genuine Mustang. Still a genuine Ford. It was never a "fake ass" at all. Today you can buy all the parts, body, interior, everything, to build a 1960s Corvette on a Chevy S10 pickup truck frame. Is it s genuine Corvette? Even using some genuine Corvette parts is it a real Corvette? Nope. It is just as my 6542 is, a replica. But if you buy a genuine 1960 Corvette frame, buy a genuine 1960 Corvette motor, interior and the rest, it is a genuine 1960 Corvette. And it is worth top dollar as a restored car. If the motor numbers do not match the original, but is still a Chevy engine, it is worth less but it is still a genuine 1960 Corvette, not a "fake ass" and worth only slightly less than the numbers matching car. freddy's watch is not a "fake ass" either. It is a genuine Rolex 6542 with a replacement insert and repainted dial. Just as stated from the start. Cars are certainly a good comparison, but what I was referring to, is not that cars are often restored with aftermarket or even custom fabricated parts, but that even when Fleming wrote the novel, there was the knowledge that owner modifications mean invalidation of any maker's warranty (with regards the hypothetical DJ) I quite agree, and would never call Freddy's watch "fake ass" anything. It is a 6542 made from non-numbered gen parts. However. It does not have a genuine albino 6542 dial. It has a genuine 6542 dial which has been re-painted to replicate an albino dial, making the dial a replication, rather than a restoration. I admit, the work on the dial is 100% top notch work, and is as close to genuine as is possible to get, but this truly is the embodiment of where some people in the past have criticized frankens, saying that no matter what parts get put in, it is still 'just a rep'. (Although I certainly feel that this watch is more than the sum of its parts, and the ultimate pinnacle of our hobby) All people have pointed out, is had the dial come out of the greaseproof envelope an albino dial, then yes, that would be a gen albino dial. This, is simply a gen 6542 dial which has been re-finished to replicate the albino variant. Freddy is not saying that the dial is not repainted, he is saying precisely what it is, but what people're talking about, is the difference between restoration and replication, two very different things. Rather than cars, reconsider my example of the counterfeit money: Everything about said money, from both materials and production crew would be genuine, but because it would be made 'outside the system', it would still be counterfeit money Anyway, there's no need to flog a dead horse, we'll be going round and round on this all weekend, much more productive to agree to disagree Freddy, you have a fine timepiece, which I could never begin to come close to achieving with my own projects, wear it in the best of health Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think your counterfeit money example applies to the entire watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think your counterfeit money example applies to the entire watch. I wasn't meaning the conterfeit money comparison to be applied to the entire watch, only to the refinished dial, as an example of how even with every single element and component 100% genuine, if it's done 'outside the system', it will only ever be counterfeit/replication The rest of the watch, I would never dispute the provinence of the parts, and obviously given my own scheme of projects, the nature of the dial doesn't bother me in the least, I was just trying to clarify the difference between replication and restoration for ease of the discussion Hope you have an awesome weekend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zeleni kukuruz Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 @JoeyB Time for you to take your : Pill... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Reading this thread carefully, it appears we are at loggerheads and will have to agree to disagree. Apologies have been made, and accepted, and I suggest it's time to put this behind us. Beating a dead horse rarely makes it reach its destination sooner. As for me, I sincerely believe Freddy's watch is genuine, knowing what I do about the company that repainted his dial, their business ethics, and their clientele. I'm sure there are howls of outrage as I say that; I really don't care. Like I said, we agree to disagree. I had many long, detailed conversations with Freddy as he sourced parts and built it, and that's where I formed my very detailed opinion about "what" it is. If I thought it was a rep, I wouldn't have posted it over there. Regardless, as a leader here it is incumbent on me to set standards, not break them. Our rules here apply to everyone, me included. It is opaquely against the rules to post reps on gen sites, as Offshore pointed out, with consequences up to and including a permanent ban. To those that don't know me well, or understand my propensity to push people's buttons, I apologize. My actions looked like a flagrant rules violation to you. To the people who are left confused by this whole episode, I apologize. This is a place to learn as much as possible about watches, from every angle. It's not a place to spread confusion. Subtly is not always appropriate. To those who are here solely to stir up angst, days after the event, let it go. Have a good weekend, folks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 @JoeyB Time for you to take your : Pill... You first. Choke on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxman Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 You first. Choke on it. WTF is wrong with you dude. Zeleni made a Innocent post and you react like that...shame on you. What he meant was that we as a community need to relax. I agree. Is it posible that you are taking this whole rep/gen thing way to seriously? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 WTF is wrong with you dude. Zeleni made a Innocent post and you react like that...shame on you. What he meant was that we as a community need to relax. I agree. Is it posible that you are taking this whole rep/gen thing way to seriously? Mike What is wrong with you? His post wasn't "innocent" in any way. I had just agreed to disagree with TeeJay in a difference of opinion. Nothing nasty nor flaming nor insulting. And some kid needs to be cute? And you need to be cute with him? He didn't direct it at the "community", he made a dig at me. He got the reaction he deserved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wat44 Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 I have been banned on rolex forum 5 times now - its no biggie I agree with Offshore FWIW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielv2000 Posted November 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 My point was, it didn't degenerate into 9 pages of discussion as we have here or a similar amount on VRF when some very "reputable" seller was lured for fabricating papers for all his boxes. A gen Daytona dial was modified with paint. That's all there was to say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 The emotion this issue has stirred up makes it clear that, contrary to what some of us thought, there remains wide & varying opinions on what defines a watch as gen or franken or rep or fake. And until we have universally accepted black & white definitions, I fear the debate will continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 The emotion this issue has stirred up makes it clear that, contrary to what some of us thought, there remains wide & varying opinions on what defines a watch as gen or franken or rep or fake. And until we have universally accepted black & white definitions, I fear the debate will continue. I think it's simply a matter of honesty, rather than definitions. You presented your watch and described it accurately and honestly. Some refuse to accept that, and definitions won't change it. For some people being insulting or foul-mouthed or smart-assed punk is cute. It has nothing to do with the emotion of the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxman Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 What is wrong with you? His post wasn't "innocent" in any way. I had just agreed to disagree with TeeJay in a difference of opinion. Nothing nasty nor flaming nor insulting. And some kid needs to be cute? And you need to be cute with him? He didn't direct it at the "community", he made a dig at me. He got the reaction he deserved. So you took "take a chill pill" as a insult"? Ok... fair enough. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 Gentlemen, for the last time, let's leave ALL of the disparaging personal remarks/attacks out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donerix 2.0 Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 This one is quite an interesting hybrid: Look at the bezel ring and the GMT hand, they look like 1675 parts to me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ww12345 Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 (edited) Not only that, but look at the funky springbar at the bottom. I puzzled over that same watch as I followed this whole episode. Edit: Not to mention the stark white date-wheel. Edited November 27, 2011 by ww12345 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 And the black hands... If this isn't some kind of fantasy/franken/rep, it would certainly confirm the theory that in the past during a production run, Rolex would use whatever parts they have lying around to build a piece, rather than being 100% consistent throughout the run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 So you took "take a chill pill" as a insult"? Ok... fair enough. Joey your're a ass hole. ..enjoy the rest of your weekend. Mike Yep. It was a dig directed at me. Only someone completely stupid would not recognize that. Your reply would be an insult, if you could spell. Unfortunately it's just illiteracy. Have a nice day. Gentlemen, for the last time, let's leave ALL of the disparaging personal remarks/attacks out. OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyB Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 And the black hands... If this isn't some kind of fantasy/franken/rep, it would certainly confirm the theory that in the past during a production run, Rolex would use whatever parts they have lying around to build a piece, rather than being 100% consistent throughout the run From what I've seen and read Rolex played fast and loose with many of their offerings. The perspex insert came in a number of variances during a relatively short run. Maybe it was just a 1950s experimental thing, or shortages after the war, but it seems they were not real consistent back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 In spite of all the back and forth I must confess that one good thing came out of this one from my perspective. I had no idea how the whole Rolex Vintage and what constitutes a gen, etc. works. I know there is no definitive answer but it certainly gives me a framework for understanding. Also scares the heck out of me about buying vintages in the future. I am going to tread very carefully. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxman Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 This will be my last post in this thread...honest. Some will judge Nanuq by this thread...big mistake..please dont do that. I've been around here for almost three years...a finer gentlemen I have not met. Always kind and generous.. Nanuq and i have had several Interactions..If you will. .... again always the gentlemen But please dont take my word for this....He offered his home and family to a member he never met. It was a sincere as a offer as I have ever seen. Hindsight is a wonderful thing...but unfortunately we as human beings dont always have 20/20. Im sure If Nanuq could go back and change a few things..he just might. Who here hasent done something they wish they would have done/said differently? This Is just one resent example of the kind of man Nanuq is. How many people do you know would do/say something like this?...I know few if any to be honest. Proof...show me another post like this...post # 15...Actually post 14 thru 16. http://www.rwg.cc/to...ge_fromsearch_1 Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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