Phoband rant on movements and newbs :)

[HartDoc]

You talk about the good ole days when....

But the good ole days were never really that good. The fact of life is the rep game has and is evolving. If we stand for crap watches the factories will continue to send crap watches. If we demand a better product why shouldnt we get a better product. I have found after reading the various rep watch board the factories have the ability to produce stellar products.

Why is the factory got a watch right do the discontinue it. I for one sure would like to have a selvin.

I as a newbie demand and search for the best because I know its obtainable !!!!

[sgtguk]

Talk about a can of worms!

I'm a 'noob' and have been coming on this forum for a few months now, having read lots and lots of info first I've made my first really good rep purchases based on the info and advice given on the forum by all of you that had the time and patience to give it.

I agree with Adeodatus, I think Pho has all the right intentions but the way he has come across is as a smartass and is paying for it, it's very difficult to type in a way that conveys how you intend the words to come across, lol, it's hard enough not to be taken the wrong way when your face to face with some people, let alone on any net forum.

I am not sticking up for Pho as I do not Know him but that rings true for all of you too, as a noob being on here for only a short time his posts have mostly been appreciated and it seems to me that his message has been misunderstood to a degree!

Life's too short......

[sempire]

I have no problem with Pho and really don't even know him, but he has decided to sum himself up in this thread. I understand the frustrations with noobs sometimes, not only with reps but with almost everything now a days, but there is better ways to discuss it.

The problem with most of these forums is that just because someone did something a day before you they think they're the end all and be all of the forum.

[ninjagaiden]

From someone who definitely still considers himself a noob.

The main take home points from Pho about RWG for me were

We have 2 purposes.

1 enjoy the community, discuss watches and learn from each other.

2. Be organized so overall we have the purchasing power to keep dealers honest. As a courtesy we advise newbs. It's not a right, it's a courtesy.

Isn't this the crux of the point? I think we all benefit from participating in RWG in these two purposes. There is sooooo much information to be found on RWG. My experience and satisfaction from buying reps has changed immeasurably since someone recommended I join. When people like By-tor, Ubi & Lani share their experiences with exhaustive writeups it helps everyone, whether it is rep purchase no.1 or no.1001. I am also sure that mentioning RWG on a first purchase tells the dealer you have at least done some homework.

What Pho is commenting on is observations on the content of the site and how it's changed over 6 years or so. LIke the other content on the board, you are welcome to learn from it or leave it. Personally I think summary posts and didactic 'opinions' are quite useful because the content of the board has mushroomed to such a vast size.

The only thing I am not sure about is the issue of modding. I think that the most important person your rep has to satisfy is the owner. For some people (like me) that means choosing well and wearing items pretty mcuh OOB. For others it means lume and new crystals, and for others it is teh start of the dark art of uber-modding. We all find our own level, and I (for my wallet's sake) am happy I found mine.

Peace

N

[frankt]

I support pretty much everything that "Pho" says, having had basically the same experiences as him over the past decade.......

"those who don't learn from mistakes are destined to repeat them"

[fotoman]

Nothing but a BS glib phrase...

While I have had a couple of watches which were not waterproof (one manufacturing flaw of a PAM 104 which was immediately replaced with a replacement which was waterproof, one DJ which has had extensive case mods which prevent the rear seal forming, and one DJ which again, fogs up, but as it's only ever worn on a leather strap no need to get it wet) with those exceptions, I have had no issues with any of my other reps being waterproof, including chrono watches (3 Daytonas, a PAM 187, and the Tudor Heritage) all have been worn while bathing, showering and swimming with no issue whatsoever. Perpetrating the myth that reps are not waterproof needs to stop. While it is adviseable to have a watch tested before subjecting it to an immersion, I must admit, that the odds have certainly worked out in my favor so far

I am not saying they aren't water proof. What I'm saying is waterproofing service has questionable value

[fotoman]

I think this guy is trying to beef up his resume for when God retires..

I'm sure people here are "experts" on a lot of the same things or more, however it's sad that you have to write pages of nonsense tooting your own horn. I think at the least you come off as a jack off.

It's nice to think you're better than everyone but, buddy, this is a replica watch forum, so I don't know who you're trying to impresses, but it doesn't look like any one is.

Perhaps you need to be an expert is Alcoholics Anonymous.

I am an expert at alcoholics anonymous. But not because I was the user.

The above harshness related to the conversation where it spilled over to this thread from elsewhere. I listed my expertise as a sarcastic jab. Although, I am an expert in the subjects listed, i really have no need to pad my resume. I'm perfectly able to get the information i need and the reps i want without being involved in the forum. I'm only here to help. The forum was very good to me for a long time.

I apologize if people take offense. I think its a combo of me being away for so long and part a change in the culture.

Someone else accused me of attacking newbs. - I think if you re-read my first post, its about how to communicate and how to help newbs avoid disappointment and anger by the creation of unrealistic expectations and i have seen talk where some folks kind of consider US as responsible for the dealers. that We have something to answer for if they screw up.

That was never the case before, at all. Further, all the senior members, at least the ones that started more than 2 yrs ago, from the time where i was more active, are busy folks, with expertise, many of whom dont even collect reps anymore but are here to help. Their time is valuable, I respect it. They don't have to help me with stuff. its a courtesy. They are very knowledgable and their contribution is not measurable.

Frankly, its not clear that the rep world would exist as it does today with a safe haven for purchasers was here with this forum. If it wasn't for these guys who have spent time, money and treasure building this world and holding dealers feet to the fire. - Go google this stuff, without reference to the forum and see what your world would be like - a combination of inflated prices and pure [censored]. Either way your getting ripped off.

I have always had respect for the members of this board. I just see it differently when i came back.

[fotoman]

From someone who definitely still considers himself a noob.

The main take home points from Pho about RWG for me were

We have 2 purposes.

1 enjoy the community, discuss watches and learn from each other.

2. Be organized so overall we have the purchasing power to keep dealers honest. As a courtesy we advise newbs. It's not a right, it's a courtesy.

Isn't this the crux of the point? I think we all benefit from participating in RWG in these two purposes. There is sooooo much information to be found on RWG. My experience and satisfaction from buying reps has changed immeasurably since someone recommended I join. When people like By-tor, Ubi & Lani share their experiences with exhaustive writeups it helps everyone, whether it is rep purchase no.1 or no.1001. I am also sure that mentioning RWG on a first purchase tells the dealer you have at least done some homework.

What Pho is commenting on is observations on the content of the site and how it's changed over 6 years or so. LIke the other content on the board, you are welcome to learn from it or leave it. Personally I think summary posts and didactic 'opinions' are quite useful because the content of the board has mushroomed to such a vast size.

The only thing I am not sure about is the issue of modding. I think that the most important person your rep has to satisfy is the owner. For some people (like me) that means choosing well and wearing items pretty mcuh OOB. For others it means lume and new crystals, and for others it is teh start of the dark art of uber-modding. We all find our own level, and I (for my wallet's sake) am happy I found mine.

Peace

N

yes, that was my intention. I appreciate your comment. I will leave it with these last few thoughts.

1. As per a previous commentator, i'm not paying for it I'm just fine

2. Mods - i don't exactly know what i posted but, it is all about the owner. my big point is to hold off until you have had a few reps in your hand to figure out what you like. I was screwed by being a newb, saying i can pay whatever so its the best just like many others do. And, i lost a bunch of $$. Take it slow, look at a watch at real size not 10x size and find what makes a difference to you. Also, there are some mods that I think are just straight up rip offs. I was somewhat obscure on some of those things on purpose.

3. The thread this came from had a back and forth discussion. Someone else had emphatically declared a particular movement unreliable, although he said from the 1 he had it didn't fail. It was not the first time in a few days i was posting what was a general understanding. The previous was that running your chrono on the 7750 was detrimental to the movement. So, I finally just layed out my resume, so that, when someone reads my opinion, they can add whatever weight they want to it based upon my resume. how else do you judge the weight of an opinion? experience right? If the other dude would have said, I got 3 of these and they all failed within 3 months. the conversation would have been different.

I considered taking the resume part out of the post when i reposted, because, it was not relevant to the purpose here. However, i left it in, because in the interest of transparency i wanted to leave the post intact, so that if some issue got raised, i wasn't accused of skewing the understanding by editing.

4. The reason i posted - if you read it, i know its long, was to FACT CHECK the stuff i was saying so that I was making sure i wasn't passing out wrong information. - In reaction to that, Some dude, who, one could assume is a watchmaker, called me a douche for me telling everyone else how it is. - If that dude would have read the post, maybe he could have confirmed or disputed the facts i layed out. I think the biggest issue in this entire thread is, i write really long posts and folks don't read them all or read them all closely. Maybe thats because they were turned off by something said earlier in the post and that was a lens through the rest of the reading.

5. I should have changed the way i operate due to me being gone for some time. My fault. people are not used to reading my stuff and don't know how I operate. Oh well. guess I will just let you guys do what you want to and I'll take my douchey self underground. I have always been, funny, over the top and engaging. I have rubbed some people the wrong way. It happens. But, i have also bent over backward to be helpful to hundreds of members. How many of you have dropped $300 to the forum so they could upgrade some ram? This is a common occurrence in life and in any big organization. As we grow older, we realize that maybe those old timers were onto something. As the rep world turns.

6. I am available for discussions on any of my other subjects shoot me a PM

[fotoman]

H

[woody]

I am a newb; and I am still mad at Jetmid for stealing my gf, after he busted out his awesome Patek. Now he is nowhere to be found.

Where the hell are you, Jetmid? Show yourself!!!!!

[fotoman]

I am a newb; and I am still mad at Jetmid for stealing my gf, after he busted out his awesome Patek. Now he is nowhere to be found.

Where the hell are you, Jetmid? Show yourself!!!!!

I guess I can tell you now, i am jetmid. But, dude your lucky she left you, I've been using cream twice a day ever since. Don't ask where

[Dave123]

Holy [censored] guys. Pho has good intentions,read the post and move on if you dont like it. These forums are a big mix of [censored],dont forget that,and dont take this seriously.

Its a handfull of forums discussing Chinese toys,and us children are a part.

Play along.

[maxman]

[fotoman]

R

[mastrmindalliance]

Some of the info in this thread is incorrect or at best... outdated

- Eddie Lee? Superseded by the cartel in large a year ago. Now completely done with the 127. Just check the sales forum on every forum.

- Maria? Who cares? I'm sure it was cool to be around in those days when things got kicked up a notch in SAE but that was the old days. The current generation will remember the HF/NF war for advancing the quality of reps.

- The Cartel actually means the factories, not the dealers.

- Don't believe the dealer hype? The dealers are at the whim of factories - so don't believe the factory hype is more accurate.

- Mobilising the community or voting with your wallet to improve rep quality? Useless - consumers will still buy the best of what's available. We actually have the likes of DSN, LH and perhaps folks like DW and his ilk to thank for the cartel improvements. They're not called the cartel because they like competition

- Forums irrelevant as a minor part of the cartel sales? It would seem odd if the forums were such a small piece of the pie that the cartel would level death threats at certain individual over a post on the forums, so I'm calling nonsense on that as well.

- Waterproofing? Nowadays the tolerances are decent enough that we can achieve some level of water resistance by simply by checking and lubing the seals providing the crystal has been fitted correctly. Even the chronos (the exception being the HBBs, though this might be better in the V6). I'm not saying you can trust it, I’m saying you should check it.

Like I said, I'm sure it was cool to be around back then and see some great advances in the hobby. But they belong in the rep museum. It's like extolling the virtues of the amazingly advanced briefcase sized 'mobile' phone in comparison to today’s smartphones. That was then, this is now.

I'm not an expert at anything, but these are the real facts as they are currently understood and believed by the masses (and they could change tomorrow). Great for the older members to reminisce, but not of any value to pass on to today's noobs.

[Jkay]

I thought the Cartel was a name given to Andrew, Josh, Angus and someone I am forgetting since they were agreeing on pricing and setting prices instead of competing.

[fotoman]

Mastrmind makes some good points. Your cry is common for the young. Us "old" people know stuff you don't. We have relationships you don't, we have experiences you don't.

The more things change, the more they stay the same. You would be wise to learn from your elders. But you won't learn that in life till you start shaving.

Also, your point on threatening other dealers that's to protect dealer markets not factories.

You/ we are a small fish. We can keep dealers honest, forget about factories.

I'm sure that if we weren't here, you could have started your own forum and created this world.

[TeeJay]

I am not saying they aren't water proof. What I'm saying is waterproofing service has questionable value

Oh I totally agree, the waterproofing 'service' was proven to be a cartel lie some time ago, just one of the many reasons I don't trust them and won't buy from them on principle. The point I was making though, is that in most instances, reps are waterproof. Maybe not up to dial rating, but enough to withstand daily immersion without hassle

I thought the Cartel was a name given to Andrew, Josh, Angus and someone I am forgetting since they were agreeing on pricing and setting prices instead of competing.

and King

[mastrmindalliance]

I thought the Cartel was a name given to Andrew, Josh, Angus and someone I am forgetting since they were agreeing on pricing and setting prices instead of competing.

You're right. It was a name given to these guys by people on the forums. But it's a misnomer. It is the makers/suppliers (commonly referred to as 'the factories') who define the prices, control the supply and level the threats. The dealers have their own issues based on competition (DDOS anyone) but they're not the real cartel.

[fotoman]

You're right. It was a name given to these guys by people on the forums. But it's a misnomer. It is the makers/suppliers (commonly referred to as 'the factories') who define the prices, control the supply and level the threats. The dealers have their own issues based on competition (DDOS anyone) but they're not the real cartel.

The problem with that analysis is, it totally lacks institutional memory and a fundamental understanding of how the chinese work.

There is no "cartel" of factories. Other than ones that might be owned by 1 person or 1 organization.

The "cartel" in my opinion was formed by Josh, who, I think has shown incredible business savvy for creating and maintaining the current model. I believe he got together with andrew, angus and king - all really old School people that have been around. They all know each other. And used their combined resources to have some buying leverage. This was especially important between the time PC launched and the time the first super reps were born.

There are other core business practices that hold the "cartel" of which angus is gone right? That tether pricing as advertised online.

Just my opinion from talking to our friends in china

[mastrmindalliance]

Cool story bro. All wrong though.

(that rhymes, and you know it rhymes, admit it!)

At least you've proven one thing as correct, this forum needs more off topic banter.

[Jkay]

You're right. It was a name given to these guys by people on the forums. But it's a misnomer. It is the makers/suppliers (commonly referred to as 'the factories') who define the prices, control the supply and level the threats. The dealers have their own issues based on competition (DDOS anyone) but they're not the real cartel.

If the Noobfactory defined it's prices, certain dealers would never be able to undercut the Cartel dealers by almost $100 across the board on Noob watches ...

[jeff g]

This could be the longest thread I have actually read in quite a while.

But to what avail?

If you are a noob to RWG and rep watches, this thread for the most part is a waste of time.

Long and short of it is, if you want to by a good rep watch, look at the dealers section, be assured that most if not all the dealers are reliable, all the prices are about the same, and so are most of the watches you will receive.

For the most part the balance of what you have read here is irrelevant.

And most importantly....I miss Eddie Lee more than any of the current members of this, or any other watch forum.

Edited January 21, 2012 by jeff g

[fotoman]

Cool story bro. All wrong though.

(that rhymes, and you know it rhymes, admit it!)

At least you've proven one thing as correct, this forum needs more off topic banter.

Well, your an idiot. I'm not sure I've ever met someone as sure he was right when you stand hanging over a cliff.

You know what your told. Wait wait shocker, dealers in counterfeit items are not always 100% honest.

Why would you want to think someone who was here and was able to freely share information with the most knowledgeable while this whole process was maturing slowly over a long period of time. No chance we would have a better understanding comparing stories from many many sources. Let me ask you this genius, do you buy your reps from a TD hmmm. I wonder If thats the best way to go.

Listen rookie, when you are educated enough to be able to tie my shoes, I might consider sharing information with you. Till then, anytime your wrong on an issue, double down and be more rigid, it totally works for republicans

[mastrmindalliance]

Lol. Carry on mate. You're encouraging others (apparently anyone with a newer join date than you) to know the facts. But you sprout your own outdated info - the wives tales of yesteryear - as the current facts. Times have changed old man. If your info was ever correct, it isn't anymore.

It's you who needs to do some research. You've been away too long. You're a born again noob.

If there are any fellow noobs still reading this hot mess, there's a lot of good info out there. Very little of it from 1995 or whenever is still relevent.