slask111 Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 I think it depends on the country. In Sweden we have hard laws against guns and a culture that clearly sais that guns are bad. Most ppl only come in contact with guns in the army duty. With that said we have around 90 killings each year (not all gun related) with a population of 9.5 million ppl. Source: TT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 I think it depends on the country. In Sweden we have hard laws against guns and a culture that clearly sais that guns are bad. Most ppl only come in contact with guns in the army duty. With that said we have around 90 killings each year (not all gun related) with a population of 9.5 million ppl. Source: TT. I'm clearly wrong, but I'm sure I'd heard that in Sweden every home was required to have a machine gun... Is that some other European country? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slask111 Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 I'm clearly wrong, but I'm sure I'd heard that in Sweden every home was required to have a machine gun... Is that some other European country? If I had a machine gun i would rule the city. And I live in the capital ;-) Skickat från min GT-I9100 via Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 Here in Alaska concealed carry is legal without a permit. Many people are armed, and everybody knows it. The girl they interviewed said "he stood 4' in front of me aiming a gun at me". if that happened here I guarantee he would have hit the ground with 10 or 20 holes in him. My son and I teach firearms safety. It is critically important to be comfortable and familiar with your weapon. Then it becomes safe in your hands. I'd like to see a lot more people take that training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 There are more guns per capita in Israel than just about anywhere else & (non-military/terrorist) gun-related crime is rare. Gun violence is due to cultural pathology, not firearms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dluddy Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 What is the saying.... Guns don't kill people....People kill People This is more of an indictment on our identification and proper treatment of mental illness as part of our medical care in this country, than it is a 2nd amendment discussion. I heard that his mother called the Aurora police when she heard to tell them they had the right guy....Obviously she knew he was a loose cannon and might be capable of such a heinous act. Her ability to do something about it is another story... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muaitai Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Texan's Answer: BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! click... (sounds of reloading). Wife: "Sweetheart, he looks like he's still moving, what do you kids think?" Son: "Mom's right Dad, I saw it too..." BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! click. Daughter: "Nice group, Daddy! Were those the Winchester Silver Tips?" LMAO Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 My opinion of guns can be condensed down to 2 words.....Trayvon Martin Remember also many of these mass shootings are done with the guns of very responsible, sane people...their kids do them. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txcollector Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Canadian here living in the states and I have to say that this whole 2nd amendment is just silly in my opinion. From what you are saying, the world was a better place when the cowboys were allowed to carry their smith & wesson pistols at all times and when they got cheated in their card game it was ok to gun down the other player. Nice and peaceful. Sounds like a great time. +10000 I live in Texas and this idea that guns are some kind of right and everybody should be packing is just a symbol of a society that would rather live in the 18th century (I just can'ty really say this out loud since free speech is the one that's overrated around here). Just look at Japan after the tsunami to learn how a modern civilized society behaves (which btw has roots over thousands of years of cultural learning not this childish society we have built overt the past few hundreds). But I agree with the notion that a crazy person will find a way to hurt others. The guy had his apartment boobytraped. Our society needs to learn better values and stop being so enamored with violence. If your not an American and raised here, I would not expect you to understand our Constitution and our right to bear arms. The Founders of our country deemed the right to bear arms God given...not man given. It's a wholesale concept that you either get..or not get. I don't blame you for having a different opinion on the right or wrong if it. sorry but that text was written in the 18th century just after a bloodied Revolutionary War. It was a time when farmers and ranchers needed the protection since there was no police, national guard, army or any other form of public protection, so regular citizens could form militias and protect themselves and their families. The situation today is totally different and unless people grow up and learn what a civilized society is we will continue to have these stupid cases of senseless violence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKDDUDE Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 A liberal is a conservative who hasn't been mugged yet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoever Posted July 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Just an example...Those not shooting innocents in a movie theatre. well, how could you know before he did it? In pre-defining him with a mention in his passport by "bad"? The guy was a phd student, well, troubled, but there are many phd students who are CEARLY troubled but who wont shoot anybody, and i know a lot of them.... I hear the argument that in this or that situation it will be him or me aka my family, but i wonder how this can work. You have already all these guns out there, there are carrying states, people do have their guns in their pockets, home, cars, handbags and still, the shootings happen all the time, and clearly more often than in other countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoever Posted July 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 +10000 I live in Texas and this idea that guns are some kind of right and everybody should be packing is just a symbol of a society that would rather live in the 18th century (I just can'ty really say this out loud since free speech is the one that's overrated around here). Just look at Japan after the tsunami to learn how a modern civilized society behaves (which btw has roots over thousands of years of cultural learning not this childish society we have built overt the past few hundreds). But I agree with the notion that a crazy person will find a way to hurt others. The guy had his apartment boobytraped. Our society needs to learn better values and stop being so enamored with violence. sorry but that text was written in the 18th century just after a bloodied Revolutionary War. It was a time when farmers and ranchers needed the protection since there was no police, national guard, army or any other form of public protection, so regular citizens could form militias and protect themselves and their families. The situation today is totally different and unless people grow up and learn what a civilized society is we will continue to have these stupid cases of senseless violence. +1000 I'm clearly wrong, but I'm sure I'd heard that in Sweden every home was required to have a machine gun... Is that some other European country? hm....i'm not sure....i believe you maybe refer to Switzerland...where every man is a reservist for the army....but, they still don't have the right to walk around with it. Problem is, walking around with a gun is a VERY particular way of power, and every single subject is reacting differently to this kind of power, and there will be always people abusing this, getting crazy about it, because it's so tempting to have more power than another....it's just a freaking archaic thing we have in us. i work with delusional people, and sometimes, their delusions are so discreet, but so unbelievably strong , mostly paranoiac delusions, and you can't imagine how well adapted they are. They work, they have families, etc etc. And then the step to DEFEND themselves is so close by....and this guy was clearly a paranoid! Families try to protect themselves from these pathologies in their own structures in denying them, the most natural thing to do! I guess it's the hardest thing in the world to think clearly about your son/daughter etc that they are suffering from a clinical illness! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 I see violent acts like this as the result of a broken society. A broken society is made up of broken people. Broken people live in an insular world and don't know, or don't care about the needs or desires of others. Maybe they were never taught, or maybe they quit trying. It might be overly simplistic but I believe societies are lost, one neglected, forgotten, isolated person at a time. Again perhaps overly simplistic, but I think in order to fix it, it needs to happen, one neglected, forgotten, isolated person at a time. Everyone needs someone to listen, to KNOW them, to truly care about them, and to be willing to set high expectations in their life. That person has to care enough to confront as necessary, encourage when it's impossible, and to be strong enough. How much is enough? You don't get to ask that question ... there is no "enough." So where do we start if we want to fix society? My choice was to immerse myself in the Boy Scouts. Every week I count it a privilege to hang out with screwed up boys. Maybe they don't have a dad, maybe they've been neglected, or abused, or told they're not good enough. But they keep coming, and they know three things: I care about them, I will accept nothing but their very best, and I will not stop pursuing excellence in their lives. You do that, you get plugged in to someone else's life like that, you be consistent, then watch in amazement as they do far more than you hoped for. We all need someone to confront us, care about us, encourage us and hold us accountable. That someone becomes the voice in our ear that cautions us, and cheers for us. We all know someone that needs that. We all have someone that knows we need that. If you're not already doing it, open your eyes and find those two people. Take the risk and become significant in their lives. You will never regret it, and you'll be on the path to recovering a broken society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwatch Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 A liberal is a conservative who hasn't been mugged yet... I was mugged at gun point once. I didn't run out and buy a gun for myself or feel the need to hit the firing range (which I have also done before and I'm a damn good shot if I do say so myself) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 If I had a machine gun i would rule the city. And I live in the capital ;-) Skickat från min GT-I9100 via Tapatalk 2 +1000 hm....i'm not sure....i believe you maybe refer to Switzerland...where every man is a reservist for the army....but, they still don't have the right to walk around with it. Problem is, walking around with a gun is a VERY particular way of power, and every single subject is reacting differently to this kind of power, and there will be always people abusing this, getting crazy about it, because it's so tempting to have more power than another....it's just a freaking archaic thing we have in us. i work with delusional people, and sometimes, their delusions are so discreet, but so unbelievably strong , mostly paranoiac delusions, and you can't imagine how well adapted they are. They work, they have families, etc etc. And then the step to DEFEND themselves is so close by....and this guy was clearly a paranoid! Families try to protect themselves from these pathologies in their own structures in denying them, the most natural thing to do! I guess it's the hardest thing in the world to think clearly about your son/daughter etc that they are suffering from a clinical illness! You may well be right there, it was something I'd read years ago in a gun-issue debate, I think the thing which stuck in my mind, was that each home was legally obliged to be armed, almost like in France, people are legally obliged to help a stranger who has had an accident, and it struck me as such a distinctly different notion to say the 2nd ammendment right to bear arms (which is the right to do so, not an order to do so) or the UK's laugable regulations on the subject Fuck you, Thomas Hamilton, and every other killcrazy bastard out there who's fucked things up for everyone else, all I can look forward to shooting, is air rifles at the carnival once a year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rek001 Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Nanuq, my nephews are in the Boy Scouts, best thing that ever happened to them, and an antidote to all the video games they were playing... As for more people carrying guns, I don't want to even contmplate what that would do to road rage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woof* Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 A liberal is a conservative who hasn't been mugged yet... Yep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zeleni kukuruz Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 It's realy simple, more guns to seviliance more dead sevilian people!!! In Sweden onely the police can cary a gun in the streets NO one ells! And i think that is a good and wise thing! The black market in guns in Sweden is big, if you want a gun you can get almost anything in a cuple of hours! But that dont make me want one. Guns are bad, guns [censored] you up! If i ever get mugged i rather kung-fu his ass and putt him in a weel chair for the rest of his life and get 3monthes in jail, then shoot him and get 12years to life! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankt Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 Those where other times. Cowboys did not need permits to carry guns, they just went in a store and bought one. I believe that persons that are thoroughly checked and proved themselves that they are stable and responsible enough to carry a firearm should be able to do that, yes. If someone with a concealed weapon permit was in that theater, he could have changed the outcome. Even if it was one victim less, it would have been one grieving family less. Did you see how well that [censored] was armored...??? A guy with as pistol wouldn't even phase him for a moment...Anyone attempting to get into a shootout with a guy wearing body armor, and wielding an AR15 would'n last very long!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKDDUDE Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 I was mugged at gun point once. I didn't run out and buy a gun for myself or feel the need to hit the firing range (which I have also done before and I'm a damn good shot if I do say so myself) It's just a dumb saying I felt like throwing into the mix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted July 21, 2012 Report Share Posted July 21, 2012 It's realy simple, more guns to seviliance more dead sevilian people!!! In Sweden onely the police can cary a gun in the streets NO one ells! And i think that is a good and wise thing! The black market in guns in Sweden is big, if you want a gun you can get almost anything in a cuple of hours! But that dont make me want one. Guns are bad, guns fuck you up! If i ever get mugged i rather kung-fu his ass and putt him in a weel chair for the rest of his life and get 3monthes in jail, then shoot him and get 12years to life! Don't get me wrong, I don't want to go round with a 357 Magnum in the waistband of my jeans like some kind of Dirty Harry wannabe, but, I do enjoy shooting, and have always been good at it. In life, there are skills people can learn, and there are skills people are born with, and the ability to pick up any rifle or handgun and shoot it straight, is one of the only skills I was born with. Maybe I was in 'Nam in a past life Hell, if my mother hadn't hid my family's military involvement from me when I was growing up, I probably would have joined the army and wound up as a sniper, because that's what I'm good at. When I was younger, I always wanted to belong to a gun club 'when I was older' so I could shoot as a hobby, then the Dunblane Massacre happened, and private ownership of handguns was virtually outlawed, and the security conditions gun clubs had to enforce and maintain, meant that many clubs couldn't afford to stay open, so I pretty much gave up on the dream of having shooting as a hobby A few weeks back, I did see a rather nice CO2-powered revolver which I'd like to get, when I can eventually afford to, so I can actually do some target shooting with a decent handgun, rather than just plastic BB guns I don't want to actually carry a firearm in public though, and have an led flashlight on my key fob which would make a very effective kubotan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 Personally I would love to hear how these figures can be explained away.... It's not that I want to get into the whole gun lobby argument but seriously when access is so easy then these mass shooting and other murders must always be a possibility. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Carl Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 (edited) Posting up unattributed information and the then a taunting "God Bless America" is fairly close minded. It also cracks me up that some here who actively participate in the sale and purchase of counterfeit goods become virtuous scolds scolds about laws they don't like in other countries. People kill people, not guns, knives or bombs. You need to look at the intentional homicide rate per 100,000 population for a comparison of murder. Here are some I got from Wikipedia (2010 data): USA 4.8 Finland 2.1 New Zealand 1.76 Canada 1.62 Estonia 6.3 Russia 13.0 Brazil 26.0 Of course the USA is larger in population than any of these countries and more diverse than most. Looking at individual US states, New Hampshire, with a larger population than some of the examples above comes in at a 2010 rate of 1.0 per hundred thousand. And the overall 2010 rate for the USA, at 4.8 per hundred thousand has dramatically dropped from the 1980 rate of 10.2. In 1980 there were no AK-47's here and little concealed carry. Reason that out. Edited July 22, 2012 by Carl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 So what you are saying is that the above that I posted (which I borrowed off an American friend) is rubbish and I am just trying to provoke, is that what you call an explanation? 4.8% per 100,000 is an unacceptable figure if you ask me. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baglc1 Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 (edited) All the world these days is sad, no democracy, wars on thier own people,bombings at weddings,fathers and mothers killing thier own siblings, the world as gone mad. No value on life at all. All arms sold to carry out all these wars and uprisings, bankers feeding themselves with our money and people starving all over, just sad. Edited July 22, 2012 by baglc1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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