Why in general do gen watch owners hate reps ?

[TeeJay]

Raffe is a fiesty one.

Not the phrase I would have used

[iceberg1459]

Why not dress it up as a Ferrari? Car modification is quite a popular hobby. They even have shows on TV about it You haven't explained to me why the guy in a Fiero dressed up as a Ferrari is an idiot... Why wear a diamond-encrusted monstrosity of a watch? It's the exact same point: Different strokes for different folks, and personal freedom of expression...

I thought I'd answered that one pretty clearly above, but to clarify, I like how the product(s) looks, I don't like the overly inflated price tag. I refused to pay it when I could have afforded to and would refuse to pay it if I could afford to again on principle. As mentioned above (and many times over the years) I buy many generic things, from food to clothing rather than paying 'brand prices'. Nothing more than a frugal attitude. If I can buy a near copy of a $5000 watch for less than $50, why would I want to spend the extra $4950? Just so I can say "It's real..." if someone asks? I'd rather someone know I buy fake goods, than know I waste money on genuine ripoffs. As I pointed out above, people the world over collect and display reproductions/prints/screen savers of famous paintings, yet no one thinks that they are losers or lying to themselves I think the real question, given how you clearly think fake anything is for losers, is why are you still here? You claim that people who 'go gen' soon disappear. Why haven't you done the same?

man dont get me wrong but maybe its just better if you stop hiding from the truth. Its probably much better. If they are overinflated overpriced then why not wear a casio or swatch? The only question is, why do you need replica rolex, why do you need to dress to up fiero as ferrari while maybe u can buy an audi for same price.

I thought I'd answered that one pretty clearly above, but to clarify, I like how the product(s) looks, I don't like the overly inflated price tag.

nobody likes the price tag but that looks and quality has a price, like everything in life, and that price is adjusted to market. reps wouldnt exist if gens werent designed, manufactured and marketed from scratch.

[Nanuq]

How about rep parts? In some cases, genuine replacement parts are becoming impossible to find, so people produce copies.

So as a matter of principle, when the gen bezel pops off your 6536 again, do you:

1. wear it without the bezel and hate the look, or
   
2. put it in a drawer and grit your teeth, or
   
3. buy a good aftermarket bezel and continue enjoying the watch?
   

You can see where my argument is going next.

[Gw4k]

I test drive reps to buy gens. But sometimes I go the opposite direction if the rep is that good (or good enough)

I test drove APs and fell in love with a gen Panda when I tried it on.

I own the gen Sea Dweller and recently acquired an Ultimate SD (check out my review).

Now I want to sell my gen SD for a DSSD, after trying out a Noob DSSD.

I've never bought a gen Panerai, even though I could. because the reps have always been that good.

[cougar1]

Raffe is a fiesty one.

Lol, wait until some of the others get their teeth in, maybe they are not around atm, but a number of others will just drag any useful discussion into the abyss. Fair play to Bonesey for trying to educate, many do want to learn a few things, and even the moderator of the forum is fairly open minded and lets discussions run....but ultimately he really is just taking part in an exercise in futility... (unfortunately!)

Edited August 27, 2012 by cougar1

[TeeJay]

man dont get me wrong but maybe its just better if you stop hiding from the truth.

And what 'truth' would that be?

If they are overinflated overpriced then why not wear a casio or swatch? The only question is, why do you need replica rolex,

Was my above answer not clear enough? What part of what I said about product appearance but refusal to pay the price tag didn't you understand? If I wanted to be wearing a Casio, I would be wearing a Casio. At the moment, I happen to want to wear a Rolex, but am not prepared to pay their inflated price tags, hence why I buy replicas. I don't try to pass them off as gen, so who am I lying to? I know they're replicas, I bought the things, so I can hardly be lying to myself...

why do you need to dress to up fiero as ferrari while maybe u can buy an audi for same price.

Can you buy a Ferrari for the same price? Saving money/frugality/cheapness/whatever you want to call it, it's all the same thing... Besides, only cunts drive Audis...

nobody likes the price tag but that looks and quality has a price, like everything in life, and that price is adjusted to market. reps wouldnt exist if gens werent designed, manufactured and marketed from scratch.

The Submariner was released in 1954. In the time since, other than tweaking the design, Rolex has continued to make the same watch, I think it's safe to say that they've long recouped any design costs long ago... As pointed out in American Gangster, "anything else is just greed..."

Reps are built from scratch, yet their prices aren't ludicrous... If they were all built from 1:1 original plans, then there wouldn't be all these different versions of the same watch released.

[blazed7]

Lol, wait until some of the others get their teeth in, maybe they are not around atm, but a number of others will just drag any useful discussion into the abyss. Fair play to Bonesey for trying to educate, many do want to learn a few things, and even the moderator of the forum is fairly open minded and lets discussions run....but ultimately he really is just taking part in an exercise in futility... (unfortunately!)

I have noticed that as well. I think it the Daytona thread where I first saw it.

Not the phrase I would have used

Edited August 27, 2012 by blazed7

[iceberg1459]

And what 'truth' would that be?

Was my above answer not clear enough? What part of what I said about product appearance but refusal to pay the price tag didn't you understand? If I wanted to be wearing a Casio, I would be wearing a Casio. At the moment, I happen to want to wear a Rolex, but am not prepared to pay their inflated price tags, hence why I buy replicas. I don't try to pass them off as gen, so who am I lying to? I know they're replicas, I bought the things, so I can hardly be lying to myself...

Can you buy a Ferrari for the same price? Saving money/frugality/cheapness/whatever you want to call it, it's all the same thing... Besides, only [censored] drive Audis...

The Submariner was released in 1954. In the time since, other than tweaking the design, Rolex has continued to make the same watch, I think it's safe to say that they've long recouped any design costs long ago... As pointed out in American Gangster, "anything else is just greed..."

Reps are built from scratch, yet their prices aren't ludicrous... If they were all built from 1:1 original plans, then there wouldn't be all these different versions of the same watch released.

lol...i think maybe you will never get the point, and you are still not honest to yourself. Normally, if you like the look of Rolex, you should be paying rolex price to own one. if you dont want to pay, you should be wearing something else. I hate to say this but basically reps steal the design and reconstruct with cheaper materials and poorer finishing(yes, even the steel and yes, even the so-called 1:1 reps). Reps arent built from scratch, repmakers didnt invent their own movement, they didnt design it themselves, also from scratch, they didnt found a company which made his way up to the position they have now, with prestige. They didnt have to survive the quartz watch crisis. i really dont need to list all of that..

Submariner design maybe still didnt change much in 50years, simply because its damn good design, its timeless. Prob the most copied, imitated, inspired and replicated design in the world. And the price is more than justified. But with gens nobody usually need to justify their purchase, unlike with reps from what i've seen so far =) Wearign a rep is like cheating, everybody has urge to cheat sometimes, but should not overdo it..

*only [censored] drive Audis? what kind of stupid generalisation is that, then should only insecure losers drive fieros with ferrari look (at least the latter has a point) ^^

[maxman]

lol...i think maybe you will never get the point, and you are still not honest to yourself. Normally, if you like the look of Rolex, you should be paying rolex price to own one. if you dont want to pay, you should be wearing something else. I hate to say this but basically reps steal the design and reconstruct with cheaper materials and poorer finishing(yes, even the steel and yes, even the so-called 1:1 reps). Reps arent built from scratch, repmakers didnt invent their own movement, they didnt design it themselves, also from scratch, they didnt found a company which made his way up to the position they have now, with prestige. They didnt have to survive the quartz watch crisis. i really dont need to list all of that..

Submariner design maybe still didnt change much in 50years, simply because its damn good design, its timeless. Prob the most copied, imitated, inspired and replicated design in the world. And the price is more than justified. But with gens nobody usually need to justify their purchase, unlike with reps from what i've seen so far =) Wearign a rep is like cheating, everybody has urge to cheat sometimes, but should not overdo it..

*only [censored] drive Audis? what kind of stupid generalisation is that, then should only insecure losers drive fieros with ferrari look (at least the latter has a point) ^^

[Jkay]

*only [censored] drive Audis? what kind of stupid generalisation is that, then should only insecure losers drive fieros with ferrari look (at least the latter has a point) ^^

It's a popular notion in the UK, like BMW drivers are all man-child pricks in the USA. Don't take it personally. If you watch the UK series "Top Gear" it becomes obvious.

[b16a2]

I buy reps because I cannot afford the gen of all the watches I like.....reps buy me variety.

Gen owners dislike fakes/reps because they steal the design which is illegal and sell it at a lower price.

We can convince ourselves that gens aren't worth the inflated price, in truth, this is irrelevant. They are luxury items and priced highly because they are exclusive and intended for people with enough disposable income to purchase them...reps destroy this exclusivity.

[Jkay]

...reps destroy this exclusivity.

I think you accidentally gave the real answer right here.

[Legend]

I buy reps because I cannot afford the gen of all the watches I like.....reps buy me variety.

Gen owners dislike fakes/reps because they steal the design which is illegal and sell it at a lower price.

We can convince ourselves that gens aren't worth the inflated price, in truth, this is irrelevant. They are luxury items and priced highly because they are exclusive and intended for people with enough disposable income to purchase them...reps destroy this exclusivity.

Totally true, theoretically!

For me, I can't really be bothered if the next guy waiting in line at the cafe or the guy sitting next to me in the restaurant is wearing a rep of my gen watch or not. To each his own, its still a free world, right?

We can never stop anyone from wearing a rep, or wanting to fork out serious dough for the gen. At the very bottomline, its about living with personal decisions. I have said this before: This "gen vs rep" debate and "hang the rep wearers" drama happens mostly online. Walk out on the streets with a gen on your wrists, or a well made rep, or even a gaudy looking one.. you will find that the person who notices and pays most attention, is always yourself.

[TeeJay]

lol...i think maybe you will never get the point, and you are still not honest to yourself.

Whatever you say, brother

Normally, if you like the look of Rolex, you should be paying rolex price to own one.

So you have an issue with people wearing replicas too?

if you dont want to pay, you should be wearing something else.

So you don't wear replicas anymore?

I hate to say this but basically reps steal the design and reconstruct with cheaper materials and poorer finishing(yes, even the steel and yes, even the so-called 1:1 reps). Reps arent built from scratch, repmakers didnt invent their own movement, they didnt design it themselves, also from scratch, they didnt found a company which made his way up to the position they have now, with prestige. They didnt have to survive the quartz watch crisis. i really dont need to list all of that..

Rep factories might well have stolen the designs, I don't deny that, but, they still had to come up with the tooling processes to recreate those parts from scratch, and again, their prices are not extortionate. Rolex has no prestige as a company any more, and it has no prestige in its production processes, which are largely automated. Don't tell me that you really believe that each watch is hand crafted from begining to end...

Submariner design maybe still didnt change much in 50years, simply because its damn good design, its timeless. Prob the most copied, imitated, inspired and replicated design in the world.

And yet Rolex keep releasing new variants on that design and charging more money for them. As before, that is greed on Rolex's part, and something I am not willing to enable or support.

And the price is more than justified.

£2000 + for an automatic SS watch is not justified at all. If Alpha watch can release a cloned version at the selling point they do, so could Rolex. As before, if they were to be honest and release a China Made line at a reasonable price, I doubt they would lose overall revinue at all as they would see an increase in sales from buyers who would historically have brought reps instead of saving for the gens.

But with gens nobody usually need to justify their purchase, unlike with reps from what i've seen so far =)

Did you read a thread a few weeks back where a member re-posted a comment from where a guy was pretty much interrogated by his crew as to how much his watchhad cost and where he'd bought it? If I was to buy a gen, I know that people would think I was a fool for spending so much money on a watch...

Wearign a rep is like cheating, everybody has urge to cheat sometimes, but should not overdo it..

Cheating who? A greedy corporation who outsourced labour so as to increase their profit margin, and who continually re-release a +50 year old classic... They created the demand, they cannot complain that someone else is undercutting them on supply

*only [censored] drive Audis? what kind of stupid generalisation is that

It's not a generalisation, it is an observation from my experiences of Audi drivers in the UK. I do a fair bit of travelling with my father in law, and the worst drivers on the roads, the assholes who think they can just drive how they like with no regard to other drivers, the rules of the road or even basic safety, are always Audi drivers...

then should only insecure losers drive fieros with ferrari look (at least the latter has a point) ^^

Dave brought the Fiero into the discussion, not me... Personally, I don't care what someone drives. If it gets them from a to b, then good for them. As I said before, car customization is a hobby with a massive following, so if someone wants to do a car conversion as a project, good for them It doesn't matter if someone could buy an Audi for the same price as the Fiero project, as if they want to be driving a Ferrari (or Ferrari-based project) they wouldn't want to be driving an Audi anyway...

To touch back on the art analogy, do you think that someone with a print of the Mona Lisa on their wall is a loser and lying to themselves, and that they should hire some cat burglar to steal the original from the Louvre? (The irony being that even if someone was to hire someone to break in and steal it, everyone knows that only reproductions are displayed to the public there anyway )

Same question to you as I posed to Dave: If you feel that reps are for losers, why are you still here?

[HauteHippie]

Dumb thread IMO. Don't like the fiero analogy either. You'll never get 10% of the enjoyment one gets from the driving experience of a Ferrari out of a Fiero. But a highly accurate rep? That's worth, what, 90% - 95% - 99% - ?? of the gen experience. Then how about the labor of love, meticulous Frankens?? 110% the enjoyment/satisfaction/experience of the pure gen? Maybe 125%? They're a huge part of forum. Hell they're a huge part of the vintage Rolex market over at VRF (a gen forum) too.

So, whatever. Who gives a shut what this asswipe or that snapper head gen owner thinks. My mom just died a couple months back. My daughter just started preschool. These are the things that matter in life. Reps, gens, whatever. I have both, I've sold both, I'll buy more of each. And I won't think twice about it. You guys are getting too worked up here. [censored].

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Edited August 29, 2012 by chieftang

[GBOGH]

I have lots of gens, and I love me some reps too. AP Diver V3 rep is my favorite ATM, but JLC NSD rep isn't far behind.

[Craig88]

And anyone acting like they really dont want the gen of the fake they are buying here,is lying to himself as well. Take By-Tor,he finally got to buy the gens he wanted after his days here with reps,where is he now??. Come on guys,cut the bs.

This is useless logic. Of course anyone would trade in their rep for the gen if there was no additional cost but that is not the case. The point is that most rational people would much prefer to pay $300 for 95% accuracy rather than $6000. If I was wealthy, I'm still a student, and had $10k cash lying around I'd most likely buy a few high end reps for $2k max then take the family overseas for some unforgettable holiday.

No one will ever be content with what they have. The guy with the 60ft yacht

[Legend]

This is useless logic. Of course anyone would trade in their rep for the gen if there was no additional cost but that is not the case. The point is that most rational people would much prefer to pay $300 for 95% accuracy rather than $6000. If I was wealthy, I'm still a student, and had $10k cash lying around I'd most likely buy a few high end reps for $2k max then take the family overseas for some unforgettable holiday.

No one will ever be content with what they have. The guy with the 60ft yacht

+1.

Owning a gen is a matter of being able to afford it, AND being willing to spend the money on it. There are many wealthy guys around who are just unwilling to spend on the gens, BUT yet like their designs. So they go rep shopping. If this hobby is to be condemned, then what is the purpose of us congregating in RWG? Whats the purpose of RWG in the first place? We are gathered here to enjoy the hobby, not to pick at one another based on the 12000 different opinions we collectively hold on the subject right?

To each his own. Gens carry with them the fine craftsmenship, original designs, brand equity, and admiration value. Reps would never be gens, but they emulate gens to varying degrees. Let everyone be the judge of their own watches, and be the ones who decide what goes on their wrists. Living with that decision is a natural consequence, for better or worse.

[Archetypal]

Amen.

[Nanuq]

Another point that I haven't seen yet...

Many own nice vintage gens and some of those are getting hard to find parts for. Dangling participles notwithstanding.

Personally I want to wear those vintage gens swimming, but I know that's just foolish. So a good quality rep gives almost the same wearing satisfaction, and if I swim with it, and it floods, it's no real loss.

[HauteHippie]

When is it swimming weather in Alaska?

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[cougar1]

Sorry to hear about your recent loss chief, you hit the nail on the head when you said that watches are fairly insignificant in the grand scheme of things...there are much more important things in life!

[Nanuq]

When is it swimming weather in Alaska?

Any time! Just break the ice and dive in!

[PeteM]

I've never bought a gen Panerai, even though I could. because the reps have always been that good.

G, Mate you obviously werent around a couple of years ago.... Or that statement would not be coming from your lips mate...

And TeeJay.... mate either you drive a White van with your wifes old man or you are forgetting the real hazard on UK roads !!!

[tessa]

Most guys I know who have one or two gen watches generally fall in the hate bracket towards reps..... because of whats been said before here... in terms of earning the right, working hard etc...

Most guys I know with gens who are interested in watches... have no problem with reps.... As long as you dont try to pass off your rep as a gen !

The accuracy of a rep or getting it more accurate .. to me is about pleasure, its about enjoying a journey, its about enjoying a hobby and sharing that enjoyment...its about this community and the friends I have here... it is not and never has been about trying to fool people into thinking I wear loads of gens..... I will happily tell someone my watch is a rep... though most of the times I have been called out... I have been wearing a gen.... Yes I do play with people who think they know more than they do but that is a different thing IMHO... I like to watch them build themselves up and then wait for that right moment... to stick my pin in thier balloon... (not that that has happened much)

I think what any gen wearer and indeed any proper people hate is someone trying to pass off themselves as someone they are not.... and those people usually wear reps to do that ....

That general level of hate or despisment is that most people dont understand what we in this hobby are about or certainly most us.... if they did their attitude might be swayed... because all they see is guys trying to sell reps as gens or guys wearing reps pretending that they are something that they are not....

But you do see those same guys on here.... and I hate them... because all they do is register.... and post.... "where can i find...?" or "What is the best...?" now some of these guys then disappear some stick around to increase there rep collection to fool others and some are converted to the enjoyment and pleasure of this hobby and more importantly this community..

And overall I like this community more than the gen community of which I am a member of several.... because it is in the main truely about enjoying and discussing watches... and seeing what guys have done or want to do.... and not about look at me... look what I have or look where my wristie is now not because they want to share but because they want to show off !!

So you could say I hate rep wearers !!

WELL SPOKEN