My "9 Day" Watch!

[panerai153]

One thing that drives me crazy is a datewheel that isn't aligned properly. I know that lots of folks agonize over inserts, crown guards,Crowns, etc, not me so much as a crappy DW alignment.

I'm not sure what causes the problem other than there being enough variation is dial size and date window placement that some date wheels just don't line up properly. Case in point is my 9 day watch, and otherwise great 1680. It started out as a stock MBW "old skool" 1680, got the treatment from Ziggy, including a swap to a 2846 movement, genuine crown/tube, insert and tritium pearl, genuine top hat 127 crystal and a genuine 93150 bracelet,springbars, lugholes drilled. The only problem is the date wheel is so far right justified, almost half of the 2 in the numbers from 20-29 are outside the date window. The 1's from 10-19 are so far over, you might mistake the 19th for the 9th.  So that's why it's a 9 day watch, it's fine from the 1st thru the 9th, but not so good after that.It has a beautiful silver DW, correct fonts open 6's and 9's, but it just ain't right!!

 

What's the solution? I was told that the MBW dial is bigger than a genuine spec dial, which if everything were kept in proportion, would make the date window further over in relation to the DW. I've been hoping that higho would get his cases out into the market place, as it is supposed to be a genuine spec case. possibly a smaller dial would solve the problem, but you can't use one in this case. I don't think that a dial of this size with the date window over further to the right would look good either.

 

What do you think? Any suggestions?

 

Here is the 9 day watch!

 

 

 

[cyphion]

I am in the exact same boat. That one really gets me. I have a 19 day one, and I'm trying to figure out the right combination of making it work. So far it has an ETA 2893-2 and a TC DWO and it is all kinds of off. I'm gonna change it over to a DG movement and possibly see if that helps. Otherwise I'll try a BK DWO, as these are usually more centered. I'm interested in what you come up with. Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[alligoat]

Actually the MBW dial is smaller than the gen 1680 dial. 26.2mm for the MBW and 26.5 for the gen and all of the rest of the good aftermarket dials. That's because the case for the MBW 1680 is really a 5513 case and the 5513 dial is smaller.

 

Options are:

1. trim the left side of the date window on the dial- file it to the left and touch up w/ a little bit of flat black paint

2. go back to the original white MBW DW with open 6/9s and round top 3s.

3. get another DW like the one FxrAndy has in his signature- http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/150961-how-to-make-a-vintage-brushed-silver-dwo/

4. Check w/ jmb and see if he has any leftover DWOs

 

I have a white MBW 1680 dial and the silver MBW DW- ready to go on a 2846-2- wonder if I'll have the same problem!

[Mike on a bike]

Well gents misery loves company and yes my 1680 date wheel is off also.   Now I have something else to fix!   Wish I would have missed this one would have went blissfully along.

[Ephry73]

Modifying the date window seems pretty straight forward, but pay attention to the cyclops position.

[FxrAndy]

It is not the date window but the date wheel overlay that needs adjusting

[Ephry73]

Personally, I would take it apart and realign

[panerai153]

Modifying the date window seems pretty straight forward, but pay attention to the cyclops position.

 

Actually the MBW dial is smaller than the gen 1680 dial. 26.2mm for the MBW and 26.5 for the gen and all of the rest of the good aftermarket dials. That's because the case for the MBW 1680 is really a 5513 case and the 5513 dial is smaller.

 

Options are:

1. trim the left side of the date window on the dial- file it to the left and touch up w/ a little bit of flat black paint

2. go back to the original white MBW DW with open 6/9s and round top 3s.

3. get another DW like the one FxrAndy has in his signature- http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/150961-how-to-make-a-vintage-brushed-silver-dwo/

4. Check w/ jmb and see if he has any leftover DWOs

 

I have a white MBW 1680 dial and the silver MBW DW- ready to go on a 2846-2- wonder if I'll have the same problem!

Thanks,

I was mixed up, for some reason I thought I remembered someone saying years ago that the gen dial was smaller, and would just drop right through the case. Must have had a couple of glasses of fermented grape that night!! My dial is the MBW white, and It has a silver datewheel, can't remember if it came on the watch or not. I have had this one for a long time, seems like  i got it back in 2006, bought it off a guy that was here briefly, college student from Florida, needed money for Dental school!

I believe that the most feasible thing to do would be to enlarge the date window. i t would only need to be filed down 1mm, which would make all the difference in the world. i'm pretty sure the DW that's on the watch is not and overlay, but a silver DW. Now all I need is to find someone who can do the job!!

It's really a shame, this is a really nice watch, everything possible short of a genuine dial,hands and movement have been done, which i really don't see as economically feasible on a 1680. If  I wanted to spend another 2k on the watch, i would sell this one and use that money to buy a genuine.

[panerai153]

Looking at the watch, it looks like filing down the Date Window could be problematic, as it might put the edge of the Date window past the edge of the cyclops. If this is a DW and not and overlay, how could that be realigned? I'm not sure if it is or isn't an overlay. Another thing that is odd, I just scrolled through all the dates, the 30 and 31 are both perfect, a couple of numbers in the 20's are marginally OK, as are a couple of the numbers in the 10's. If this is a DW overlay, would not the numbers opposite the ones that are very right justified, be more to the left? 

[alligoat]

It's a DWO- the eta datewheel definitely won't work so it has to be an overlay.

Another DWO might be the solution or a realignment

[Ephry73]

Just take it apart and see how bad the DWO is on there. It could be a simple realignment. I like to do that for keepers anyways. 

 

 

Good luck.

 

 

E

[Chuck P]

My cartel version is slightly off as well...great for the single digits though....maybe not as bad as yours seems in pics on the other dates but hard to tell. 

 

I am not fretting it....have enough other watches to go around that I just choose the ones that look the best for the situation....date alignment included.  In fact, sometimes it helps me switch up if I find some neglected! 

[Mike on a bike]

Chuck excellent idea just put it in the early month rotation!   Now why didn't I think of that.............

[Mapman57]

I am getting confused with your left and rights, but I have seen this before and always thought.....

 

MBW dial is specd to match gen 127 plexi.

 

As such the cyclops and date window are right justified on this case (as you look at the face they are to the right side, to the CG's )

 

The eta 2846 calendar wheel is a little left justified as you look at it (to the cannon pinion). A custom/different DWO is the solution. It will never be perfect like say a 1570 under a 127, but it can be a lot better. Best to contact the guys above who are making custom overlays just now?

 

1570 under NDT dial and gen plexi in MBW case...

 

[panerai153]

I am getting confused with your left and rights, but I have seen this before and always thought.....

 

MBW dial is specd to match gen 127 plexi.

 

As such the cyclops and date window are right justified on this case (as you look at the face they are to the right side, to the CG's )

 

The eta 2846 calendar wheel is a little left justified as you look at it (to the cannon pinion). A custom/different DWO is the solution. It will never be perfect like say a 1570 under a 127, but it can be a lot better. Best to contact the guys above who are making custom overlays just now?

 

1570 under NDT dial and gen plexi in MBW case...

 

That's the case with my 1665, it has a genuine 1575,gen spec dial and gen datewheel, no problems at all everything is dead centered. i do see what you are saying though, if this dial is a tad smaller than the genuine dial, it puts the cyclops closer to the right side of the dial. This watch has a genuine 127 plexi, but if you look at the date window through the cyclops dead on straight, the date window itself is not centered in the cyclops, it is definitely left justified, and not just a tiny bit, but noticably so if you are looking at the Date window directly.

 

Anyone have a spare silver DW overlay sitting around? I think that the only way to correct this problem is to get a proper size DW overlay and align it correctly.

 

Thanks everyone for the valuable input. If I can find a silver DW overlay, I have someone who can take the watch apart and align the overlay properly.

[mymanmatt]

I have some dwo's to the right, towards the crown, of the position yours shows

[Mapman57]

@ Panerai

 

I think we is saying the same thing - best to start from the base up with the movement and calendar wheel, my theory is as follows:

 

The Rep dial (MBW) is generally configured for an asian or eta movement - in this case 2846

This issue is beat highlighted in the reknown PT vintage sub series with 2846 movements

This is a similar same set up as on a Gen Tudor Sub from the same period with eta movement

However, this set up takes a Tropic 125 

 

When you have an eta movement, with eta calendar wheel (gen or Asian) the calendar wheel and DWO will always be a little to the CP / left side - due to sizing

 

The eta configuration is slightly different to a Rolex 1670/1575 - hence why the Gen dial and late after market reworked dials like an NDT Singer (Red shown above) are also to the right, to perfectly match the movement calendar wheel below and 127 Tropic above

 

The only solution to frig this into something a little better is to find a custom DWO that has the numbers slightly to the right (CG side of case).

 

If you make a custom DWO on exactly the same circumference and radius as an eta calendar wheel - it will have the correct fonts etc, but will probably still align to the left / CP side. Maybe Andy can chime in on this as he has been working on DWO's recently? 

 

I am sure you know all this but thought it was worth talking through?

 

Another option is to try a Tropic 125 on your set up as is - this may place the cyclop more dead centre over your date window at least - then you add a new DWO?

 

The Clark 125 is ok and cheap enough to try out for approx $10 - be interesting to see what this looks like?

 

Here are a few shots of my Gen 1979 eta powered Snowy and the Franken 1570 powered 1680 as shown above.....unfortunately I do not have any direct comparisons in my bucket.

 

 

 

On this one you can just make out how the Snowy cyclop is perhaps a little more left/CP sided than the 127? Though I have read elsewhere that the 125 cyclop is more right justified???? (Totally confusing!) The Snowy plexi has a softer radius on the upper edge as well. You can see this on the stacked shot further down - pushing the cyclop inboard as well?

 

 

Here is the usual crown height position difference......

 

 

 

[gavidoc]

One thing to keep in mind with ETA's and Tropics:

 

24XX and 27XX powered movements use Tropic 125's

 

28XX powered movements use Tropic 140's.

 

Why I don't know. Could be either cyclops alignment or due to movement thickness but they are different.

 

7021 and 9411 use the 125. 

79090 and 79190 use the 140.

[panerai153]

One thing to keep in mind with ETA's and Tropics:

 

24XX and 27XX powered movements use Tropic 125's

 

28XX powered movements use Tropic 140's.

 

Why I don't know. Could be either cyclops alignment or due to movement thickness but they are different.

 

7021 and 9411 use the 125. 

79090 and 79190 use the 140.

 

I can see the difference, i have a genuine Tudor 9411/0 and it has a 125.

 

 

[JoeyB]

The date window on a genuine Rolex dial should line up perfectly with the correct cyclops for that dial. The 6542 should use a 25-115 crystal, but they are long out of production, hard to find, and not cheap when found. So most people, genuine 6542 owners, and the rest of us use the 25-116 which is .5mm longer distance from the center pinion to center date window.

The ETA date wheel does not line up to a genuine Rolex dial, so we use a date wheel overlay.

For my experience, the dial is the issue. 

On GMT models using a genuine dial and overlay on an ETA movement, the pinion is too short and needs the longer pinions to mount the 4 hands. The genuine dial is too thick. Using dials made for ETA movements from places like Otto Frei is an option, they line up and are not too thick, but the window is smaller that a gen Rolex, longer distance from pinion to center window, and not beveled. In this configuration you can remove the cyclops from the crystal and replace it in the correct position using a new one from Frei. 

 

IMO 'best' would be to make dial blanks from brass thin enough to clear hands in all applications, but with the date window in the gen Rolex position, same size as the gen and beveled, and use an overlay.

 

I've tried to do that but I haven't the talent, ability or knowledge to make a decent beveled rectangle on a brass blank. I've tried  jewelers files, to no avail. If anyone knows how to make a beveled rectangle I believe I can do the rest. 

[panerai153]

joey, there has to be someone here that has the tools and the expertise to make up some dial blanks with the date window in the correct place. that would be a great service to all of the folks who are modding Rolex vintage watches. 

[cjjoyce1]

I dunno, I've built a lot of frankens using gen dials and crystals and to me the issue falls squarely at the feet of the DWO printing alone.

 

Somewhere along the line, the printing on these has gotten skewed.  From about 16 - 6 the numbers get progressively printed toward the inside edge with 25 being the closest.  I have 4 overlays in my spare parts bin right now that I can't use because of this.  From left to right, they are CubicWorks white, CW champagne, cartel silver already mounted on ETA datewheel, JMB decal applied to brushed back of DWO, and an unknown source.  You can clearly see the larger space between the JMB 25 and the rest of them with the cartel being slightly better than the rest.   Sorry for the crappy cell phone pic.

 

 

JMB's is the ONLY one of these that totally lines up correctly with the window every day of the month without finagling.  The Cartel is o.k.  Only a slight nuisance during certain days, but no dates touch the window edge.  Same thing with the last one, but the numbers are too small for my taste.  I realize that only two of them are flat top 3 / open 6 and 9, but they are vintage style and do illustrate my point.

Edited January 5, 2013 by cjjoyce1

[panerai153]

I dunno, I've built a lot of frankens using gen dials and crystals and to me the issue falls squarely at the feet of the DWO printing alone.

 

Somewhere along the line, the printing on these has gotten skewed.  From about 16 - 6 the numbers get progressively printed toward the inside edge with 25 being the closest.  I have 4 overlays in my spare parts bin right now that I can't use because of this.  From left to right, they are CubicWorks white, CW champagne, cartel silver already mounted on ETA datewheel, JMB decal applied to brushed back of DWO, and an unknown source.  You can clearly see the larger space between the JMB 25 and the rest of them with the cartel being slightly better than the rest.   Sorry for the crappy cell phone pic.

 

 

JMB's is the ONLY one of these that totally lines up correctly with the window every day of the month without finagling.  The Cartel is o.k.  Only a slight nuisance during certain days, but no dates touch the window edge.  Same thing with the last one, but the numbers are too small for my taste.  I realize that only two of them are flat top 3 / open 6 and 9, but they are vintage style and do illustrate my point.

That's very revealing. It's amazing that the printing is skewed like that. Probably everyone doing a build should take a really long hard look at their overlays before spending all that time and effort setting them up correctly on a date wheel, installing the movement and dial, only to realize that the DWO is off and can't be fixed.

 

This is obviously what is wrong with mine. I just took six photos to send to another member. Dead straight on photos of the DW at 5,9,11,13,23,and 30. The double digits, especially the 11 and 13 were terrible.When you look at the dial straight on, it looks like the date is set at 1 and 3. At least with the 23 and 30 you can tell what the numbers are.

[cyphion]

Is JMB still doing DWOs? If so, I'd probably be in for a couple. It drives my OCD nuts when it doesn't line up. Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2