Nanuq Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 It would be hypocritical for them to be against part swapping when RSC does it all the time. Yes but then the RSC records what was improved. It's done honestly. And they will not "upgrade" a watch, like making a white 1680 into a red. My 1680 was literally beat to hell and $1,000 later the NY RSC made it look new again. With documentation for the "upgraded" (new) bezel, insert, crown, tube, crystal and band. Any subsequent buyer will know that work was done. Laser welding a case to improve it, then passing it as an "untouched original" is fraud. It's beneath contempt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 ... if they fiind a few, I believe that it's going to come down hard on the seller. Complete loss of trust among the collecting crowd. As well it should. And every watch bought from him, even then resold, is a potential lawsuit. This is going to get ugly. But sunlight is the best disinfectant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillycheez Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 (edited) It would be hypocritical for them to be against part swapping when RSC does it all the time. Yes but then the RSC records what was improved. It's done honestly. And they will not "upgrade" a watch, like making a white 1680 into a red. My 1680 was literally beat to hell and $1,000 later the NY RSC made it look new again. With documentation for the "upgraded" (new) bezel, insert, crown, tube, crystal and band. Any subsequent buyer will know that work was done. Laser welding a case to improve it, then passing it as an "untouched original" is fraud. It's beneath contempt. Haha... Yeah they definitely won't upgrade your watch but they definitely don't mind downgrading your red 1680 into a service white 1680. Or replace your 702 crown with 703. Not to mention replacing your old plexi that has reliability issues with a new service plexi. But imo considering there's only two RSC's (SF and Dallas) I can think of that will touch a vintage rolex, switching out parts for service/better parts through your watchmaker is okay and normal now. There will be a day no RSC will take a vintage. Laser welding is a whole notha ball game. That will always be wrong. Edited February 21, 2013 by phillycheez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 I agree Philly, in fact my local Rolex AD swapped dials for me, replacing my rare "radial" GMT dial for a lightly damaged gilt tropical. He'd only do it because both are period correct, and my radial was more rare. Did I gain or lose value? We decided it was a wash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 My feelings are laser welding in itself is not something that is completely taboo. Someone mentioned in the VRF thread that Patek uses laser welding to restore old cases that have been over polished or damaged.What is wrong is misrepresenting the watch as "untouched, pristine,NOS", or whatever catch phrase you want to use to lure unsuspecting buyers into a overpriced watch. That's what is going on here. Lying and deceit to make the watch worth more money, with absolutely no disclosure to the buyer. I wonder how many of those "NOS subs in his showcase will be sold now at the prices he'sa asking? Even though nothing is proven, the seeds of doubt have been sown!!! And boy, if they do get a few Xrayed, and show laser welds, he might as well move to Ebay, where all of his ilk should be anyway. BTW there is now a second thread going Return to Index We've had an offer of access to sophisticated X ray equipment... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flex Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 I met with Ben and hate him (very rude). The guy only sells the watch on consignment anyways. he doesnt own the watches (maybe some now), he sells them for the local shops in TST. you can find the watches cheaper directly from the shops. i posted it on the vrf few days ago. the mods deleted my post. and i know the VRF members are reading this message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc33 Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 (edited) Here's an example of what he has for sale now that shows a case and band that look like they have been hermetically sealed for 20 years, clearly refinished/re-beveled.. His 'guy' is an artist, seriously Edited February 22, 2013 by cc33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc33 Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Conveniently, looks a lot like the after pic of the bezel in the pamphlet that Phillip posted.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Here's an example of what he has for sale now that shows a case and band that look like they have been hermetically sealed for 20 years, clearly refinished/re-beveled.. His 'guy' is an artist, seriously There is no way that watch could look this good after being worn,even carefully worn for a few years. Either it's been sealed inside a. time capsule, or it's been "enhanced"!!! Looks like it was picked up new at the local AD today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Posted February 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Some watches are in better shape then the day they left the Rolex factory in the 70's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc33 Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 Exactly! I mean the inside of the lugs shouldn't have more wear/patina than the outside of the case and band... Right!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielv2000 Posted February 23, 2013 Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 (edited) In the latest twists, Orchi has chimed in. (I love Orchi!). He brings up a case where a previous seller had purchased from the seller in question and brought to the forum's attention his doubts. This contradicts Richard Carver's previous statement that there no never any complaints. In his reply to Orchi, he clearly writes it off as a honest mistake from the seller!! WTF? It appears as though Richard is going out of his way to protect this seller. Even threatening Orchi! Poor Orchi. He's not a seller ( at least, I've never seen him as a dealer) yet people complain about him, according to Richard more than they complain about the seller. Wait, I thought there were no complaints about the seller? You see... There's a coverup over there. Everytime someone speaks up, they are shot down quickly. It's a cult thing... Edited February 23, 2013 by danielv2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted February 23, 2013 Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 Apparently, one is safer buying a watch on RWG than on VRF. How very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteM Posted February 23, 2013 Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 (edited) Cant you identify a laser weld with an ultra sonic sound test? Wouldnt that be easier than radiography? And cheaper... Edited February 23, 2013 by PeteM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dlf Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 Bump for a good read 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
droptopman Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 @Dlf thanks for bumping this. Very informative read and I had not seen this post or the threads on VRM. Being that I am currently shopping for a gen this is good info. Sent from my droptop using telepathy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civic4982 Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 Likewise. Thanks DLF Sent from the my iPhone using Tapatalk s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beachcomber Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 (edited) There are many crooks in the vintage Rolex business, I for one have been burned badly twice, once for a few hundred and the last time for 5k + one of the guys was Steve Mulholland who scammed a lot of people and to the best of my knowledge is now in Jail. There is also a well known guy (I won't mention his name for obvious reasons) but if you look at all his watches he has for sale the patina is perfect on every piece, this guy swears they are untampered with which is [censored]. I called him out years ago and was banned from a well know forum of which I also won't mention the name. This [censored] is still selling and idiots are still buying a la John Mayer style. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Edited July 26, 2015 by Beachcomber 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username here Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 Steve is in jail? Such a weird case. I bought a gen 1680 from him and it was a perfect sale. I wonder if he just got in trouble somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beachcomber Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 Steve is in jail? Such a weird case. I bought a gen 1680 from him and it was a perfect sale. I wonder if he just got in trouble somehow.i know he was arrested. I bought several watches from him without a problem as well, then he went rogue, got divorced and from what I hear started scamming to pay bills. A sad story of a once good guy gone bad. Hell, we used to deal and he'd send me the watch before payment! As the great Bob Dylan once said 'And the first one now will later be last for the times they are a-changin'. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beachcomber Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 http://www.localblotter.com/news/florida/man-detained-on-multiple-counts/9861507.htmlhttp://florida.arrests.org/Arrests/Steven_Mulholland_15736728/ Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beachcomber Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 Just do a searcH on VRF, some scary [censored]. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civic4982 Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Beachcomber, that's terrible and I'm really sorry you got taken from these guys. I pick up some vintage watches with much less desirable errors or traits because of often rather have them original than doctored up. It's kinda tough out there to find the genuine article. Sent from the my iPhone using Tapatalk s 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champagnesky Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Thx for bumpin this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronoluvvv Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) not sure how i ended up late to this party because i've been here for too long but THANKS for bringing it back to my attention Edited July 27, 2015 by chronoluvvv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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