MD2020 Who is dealing with him, I'm worried now!

[ceocorona]

These days with the internet and google anyone can pretend to be any profession they want. I can google lawyer jargon one minute then immediately switch to google medical speak.

I want to thank Wikipedia and my paid by mail diploma for the opportunity to give legal advice to anyone on the Internet. Welcome to the 21st century.

[wiseguy1481]

@ceocorona.... hahaha... always got something funny to say.

[billyfras]

Mike, can I please have an update? Anything positive in the works?

[jtiis]

I don't have a dog in this discussion (never mind my avatar) - but, as owning a replica watch/es is not a crime one could certainly say to a judge "here is proof of the cost of these items (genunie or not) and in their loss, I am requesting X as compensation." That would not work well if the defendent were a maker as producing the goods runs afoul the law - but as a repairer of replica items one could be held accountable. They are good/ they have a value... though difficult to determine. If someone took parts from 10 different year corvettes and pieced them toegehter - they could not claim compensation for the price of a new or single year vette - but they could ask the court for some portion of compensation for demonstrated costs/time in SCC. Not that doing so would go well, or that the legal-squeeze approach was best suited this conflict.

[finn]

The email with the so-called "threat" is copied below.  I don't think you can find much of a threat. I bolded the "threat" so you don

t miss it. Two months after this when the IWC was still not repaired and it looked like Mike was going to send me a bag of watch parts, I did threaten to sue about a week ago  but I quickly retracted that threat and just gave my watches to Mike instead. And exercising your legal rights is not really a threat. I do agree that my formal tone of writing may seem harsh to some but if you look at the words used--they're pretty mild. I hope for the best for Mike. I say it all the time. I've said many kind things about him despite this mess. But folks, the only thing I did was send MD2020 2 watches in March for simple work. I paid upfront. Six months later Mike returned a broken PO and a UN that had been disassembled and was placed in a bag (there is no way for me to now if all the parts are even there--its just a bag of parts). About three months ago I also sent a new IWC for servicing. 3 months later he sent me back the watch with a defect on the front of the case, a deep scratch on the back case and a  minute hand that does not start to move until 45 seconds after the seconds hand). This was a new watch when I sent it. Mike has my money for that work too. Also, I did call Mike at his home on 2 occassions when he stopped communicating. The first time we had a pleasant conversation and I felt Mike would come through. The second time I left a message. Mike can play it if he wants--it was not threatening. I also expressed sincere concern for him--something I still have--this is a very stressful time for Mike I imagine. Anyway, here is the email:

 

From: Thomas Frizzell <thomas.frizzell@sbcglobal.net>
To: Mike Dabrowski <md2020repair@yahoo.com> 
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: Fwd: 28/5 #7 - D - 49020 - thomas.frizzell@sbcglobal.net

Hi Mike: First, I apologize for the length of this response. But please read it patiently. Please step back and look at this from my perspective. All I have done is send you watches and money upfront. I have been forced to react to several needs for repair that were, by anyone's measure, not my fault. Each time, I have responded with patience and good-faith understanding. I did not blame you. Indeed, I offered to pay for the repairs that have become necessary while you had my watches. So to have your only suggestion to resolve this matter fairly [referring to IWC that was returned damaged]  be to check watches more closely when YOU receive them is disappointing. I have treated you better at all times. However, so as not to rule it out, there is, of course, the possibility that there was a hairline crack already in the watch case when I sent it to you and that it suddenly and dramatically propogated over the three days of shipment back to me. But this seems unlikely. Ladder caracks don't work that way. Also, the crack is not in the QC pics (which I sent to you and you can recheck). Neither you nor I noticed what is, a rather large and obvious defect. The defect is so apparent and obvious, that it must have happened in shipment back to me, otherwise you would have seen it. Also, I did some research--the crack will continue to spread since it is ceramic. The watch case is pretty much worthless and ruined if it is cracked. 

 

I believe you are surprised by this because you intended to do a good job--you just made a little mistake. I think that any suspicion you infer in my motives are made in the moment and you don't mean them. If you look at this objectively, I just sent you some watches weeks to months ago and since then have just patiently and graciously reacted to whatever has happened on your end. When something breaks, I say OK please fix it and tell me what it costs. I mean, I have offered to pay to fix things that occurred while my watches were in your possession on at least two occassions--(1) the seconds hand and the (2) recent problem on the ceramic PO. I did this on the assumption that these repairs were not your fault. So I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt here. I believe you care about the quality of your work and don't want to believe you may have accidentally damaged a customer's watch. But I do think the packaging and lack of cushioning is probably to blame. I know the bubble wrap is usually enough. When I send watches however, I do a better job. In shipment, these things get thrown, dropped, stuck in sorting machines. Mike, I just don't think it is fair to say you are not responsible for this (although it doesn't make you a bad person or watchmaker--you just made a mistake like we all do at times--but we have to fix our mistakes). Bubble wrap and a document package is not enough to protect $800-900 worth of someone else's watches. The post office will tell you that. Show them what you did and see what they say at the post office.

 

Also, Mike--when a watch is given over for repair, a bailment is created (I was a lawyer for 10 years before I became a Registered Nurse--don't worry it doesn't mean anything that I was a lawyer--I quit for a reason). It has to then be returned in at least as good a condition as when received. And if its not, then the bailee (in this case you) is responsible. In law school, many of the cases you learn involve watches, clothes and art. My sister is a lawyer in Chicago, if you want I can have her check on what the law is in Ill. Let me know.

 

In terms of what to do to fix this Mike, I'm open to suggestion but in the end I'd like to give you another crack at offering a constructive suggestion to resolve this that does not involve suggesting I sent you a damaged watch. l leave it to you to do what you think is fair. I do hope you agree to repair or replace it (assuming you agree it is cracked). If it can be repaired, I'll take a used case in good condition--even with some normal scratching  But I just can't keep responding to my watches not being returned in good condition. What should have been some simple and quick transactions have been anything but. I don't know if anyone is to blame but I know its not me. So if you think it is fair for me to lose about $480 on this (watch plus servicing), then I don't think I will fight. I'll just eat it MIke. I just can't keep dealing with this stuff Mike. If I ever get my PO and UN back--I guess I'll be thankful. But right now Mike, based on the tone of your last reply, it sure feels like I'm going to be out over a $1000 dollars  (I really am doubting that I will ever get my other watches back working  Mike) when all I ever did was send watches to you, pay upfront and wait patiently while I'm told all the reasons my watches have not been returned to me in at least the same condition as I sent them. That I'm even defending myself is kind of absurd really. 

 

 

 

[ceocorona]

I may be alone in this but I get completely bored with your extensive replies, emailed, and explanations. Even your apologies are ungodly long.

I understand three things from your epic posts...

1) Your watches were lost and now they are found! The prodigal watches have returned.

2) Your replies and messages are so long that Im willing to bet (in the states that it is legal of course, no legal trouble ha) that even forum members looking for good rep watch gossip quit reading.

3) I know why you are not a lawyer.

Grow up and move on. Damn.

[van_damme1988]

I don't have a dog in this discussion (never mind my avatar) - but, as owning a replica watch/es is not a crime one could certainly say to a judge "here is proof of the cost of these items (genunie or not) and in their loss, I am requesting X as compensation." That would not work well if the defendent were a maker as producing the goods runs afoul the law - but as a repairer of replica items one could be held accountable. They are good/ they have a value... though difficult to determine. If someone took parts from 10 different year corvettes and pieced them toegehter - they could not claim compensation for the price of a new or single year vette - but they could ask the court for some portion of compensation for demonstrated costs/time in SCC. Not that doing so would go well, or that the legal-squeeze approach was best suited this conflict.

This is not accurate. You cannot compare reps to cars. And there is also difference if you compare US to EU regulations. EU regulations are sometimes weird. For example if you have a car, you can basicaly exchange any part that is allowed by TUV or so in your country, but you cannot tune your car, exchange stock brakes for more powerful, even if it would make the car safer. On the other hand if you damage your engine and swap it privately, and then in the future you will need any part, Mercedes would ban you for 6 months just because VIN does not match with your engine number. Moreover if you need a fuel distributor for Mercedes 300 SL, it costs 400 EUR whilst the same fuel distributor for limousine costs only 70 EUR. This is only compared to swaping parts and putting them together. The car stays still the same. But there are also some replica cars - usually oldtimers. About a month ago, Mercedes claimed damages and right to destroy any replica out there, and ... they won. After the judgement, they destroyed defendants Mercedes 300SL... poor guy... The worst is, that this judgement has become precedent and is now part of EU case law. And the same applies to our beloved reps as well. The possession of rep itself is not a crime untill the gen product is worth more than 266 EUR (this applies in my country). And they do not make difference between making/selling/possession. And the weird thing is, that that rep itself is not the problem. The problem are the scripts and its design. I have no idea if you have in US synonyms for these, but by possessing a replicated product you do infringe the right to design and the right to trademark. And it does not matter if you are passing these as gen or not. And that is why i stated, that in my country i would never step in front of judge with such a thing. Moreover (back to this thread) if there are some other means of communication. You can always stay polite and fair in communication to others, or you can choose upper stated way of communicating to other members if you loose your head and start homecalling, sending numerous e-mails, PMs, bring the communication public, etc. I am holding no ones side. It is just my personal opinion. I always thought and always will that Mike is honorable member. I do not know him personally, but still do trust him. He was always communicating, helping other members with technical issues, so when he stopped communicating for a while and posted about it, he probably needed some time and i do understand this. On the other hand, if he had 17 customers waiting, sending 17 emails about what is currently going on and what should they expect in the near future, was not that much time taking. At this point, bearing in mind what has happened past last few months, i think it is time to move on and accept what happened, forgive the wrongs and get back everything to the old rails. I think it is not the time to burn Mike right now for it. All this flaming will not help him. Everyone should at least try to understand how does he feel right now about the fact, that all the great things he did seem to be forgotten. I think that bringing out the anger and private messages is not the point of this thread. Time to move on for me.

[van_damme1988]

2) Your replies and messages are so long that Im willing to bet that even forum members looking for good rep watch gossip quit reading.

3) I know why you are not a lawyer.

Grow up and move on. Damn.

lol exactly ! haha.  +1

[JoeyB]

I may be alone in this but I get completely bored with your extensive replies, emailed, and explanations. Even your apologies are ungodly long.

I understand three things from your epic posts...

1) Your watches were lost and now they are found! The prodigal watches have returned.

2) Your replies and messages are so long that Im willing to bet (in the states that it is legal of course, no legal trouble ha) that even forum members looking for good rep watch gossip quit reading.

3) I know why you are not a lawyer.

Grow up and move on. Damn.

+1,000,000

 

This entire thread makes no sense. I had no watches with mike, and only occasionally read in 'General Discussion' area - rarely leaving the Rolex area - and yet I still saw and read the two threads Mike made, the first when he was sick, and second when he had a death in the family. Common sense would tell anyone there would be delays. This thread is not necessary to inform the members, the two threads Mike made were necessary, and done.

 

To make threats after waiting a whole week?? To try and intimidate a fellow RWG member with questionable legalese?? I'd call that premature evaluation. 

[jtiis]

"And that is why i stated, that in my country i would never step in front of judge with such a thing."

 

Your country is key here I think.

Elsewhere maybe a different story with the analogy applying and different steps being taken.

Again, no dog in the fray - just thought to say in some places you actually might take reps into courthouse discussions.

Cheers -

[indywatchguy]

             

[wiseguy1481]

haha... I love that the route cause for this thread is not even being discussed anymore and now members are just arguing between one another about their posts.

Stick to the route cause people....

Are a lot of you STILL having issues not getting a response?

For the record, I HAD $4,500 worth of watch parts with Mike (MD2020) when this whole thing blew up. Mike has been responsive to me and returned my watch parts as I asked. Communication was hit and miss during his personal hardships but all ended well on my end.

I have seen him post a few things on the boards over the last week so I know he is still around. Is everyone ready to move past this chapter?

[sgtguk]

Your right wiseguy the thread has now officially gone to shit   I didn't start the thread to discuss the in's and out's of a ducks asshole guys!

The thread was started so that people could have a place to refer to on the progress or not of work that was with MD......thats all, I don't get the massive posts that are here frankly I get bored reading them too.....

 

@ JoeyB - to say the thread makes no sense is bullshit my friend, I had/have plenty of my babies with Mike and offered support to him through all the crap that came his way, I couldn't however get hold of Mike after my pm's were unanswered after weeks not 'a week' this thread was and is still intended to support him as the vultures were circling at the time of posting it, I figured we needed a central point to address any possible issues and that way we could help Mike too, if you disagree JoeyB then you are entitled to your opinion.

 

Back to topic, Mike has been in touch and is getting my stuff sorted.  

[Tonyyammine]

I'm not ready to move past anything. No one contacted me on any sort of update so I hope this is still opened and hope everyone that has work going on gets their watches done like their supposed to. But just to let you know i still havent heard a peep since july 2nd so i hope my watch is getting done. I'll sit and wait.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Tonyyammine

[sgtguk]

I hope so to Tony 

[JoeyB]

Your right wiseguy the thread has now officially gone to [censored]   I didn't start the thread to discuss the in's and out's of a ducks [censored] guys!

The thread was started so that people could have a place to refer to on the progress or not of work that was with MD......thats all, I don't get the massive posts that are here frankly I get bored reading them too.....

 

@ JoeyB - to say the thread makes no sense is [censored] my friend, I had/have plenty of my babies with Mike and offered support to him through all the crap that came his way, I couldn't however get hold of Mike after my pm's were unanswered after weeks not 'a week' this thread was and is still intended to support him as the vultures were circling at the time of posting it, I figured we needed a central point to address any possible issues and that way we could help Mike too, if you disagree JoeyB then you are entitled to your opinion.

 

Back to topic, Mike has been in touch and is getting my stuff sorted.  

 

Mike made two threads, one explaining his being ill, and the 2nd explaining a death in his family.  Any heroic support to fend off the vultures should have been added to Mike's own threads. Then all the explanations are in one place. Then everyone knows a fellow member has a personal problem. Then everyone knows that a fellow member lost a loved one. Then everyone knows their precious "babies" were safe and sound. All this thread has done is to show that some of our members value their "babies" more than a fellow member's health or well being, and that some of our members like to threaten other members. We already knew what lawyers are, so that wasn't needed either. 

In my opinion, this thread is not necessary, nor warranted.

[kbh]

So Joey, why didn't you or anyone else, mention these problems and Mike's previous posts early on in this thread? Maybe if some of the posters that are now belittling the people looking for answers would had have brought these personal problems out early on, this thread would have taken a whole different direction. Now, at the end you jump in and tell everyone how wrong they are. That sure doesn't seem any more right than what you are complaining about..

[panerai153]

He still hasn't contacted me despite PM's on the 18th, one on the 22nd and another yesterday, simply asking for and update on my Daytona.

[JoeyB]

So Joey, why didn't you or anyone else, mention these problems and Mike's previous posts early on in this thread? Maybe if some of the posters that are now belittling the people looking for answers would had have brought these personal problems out early on, this thread would have taken a whole different direction. Now, at the end you jump in and tell everyone how wrong they are. That sure doesn't seem any more right than what you are complaining about..

Didn't read the thread? Someone else did, on the first page, and as I said earlier, I only come here occasionally, staying mostly in the Rolex area.

 

Maybe if those who make threats first used the 'search' tool, looked and read before threatening and making unnecessary threads, this thread could have not existed. 

 

No, I didn't tell everyone how wrong they are. Just a few. Don't you think it's best to comment on all that is said, after it was said, at the end?  

[wiseguy1481]

and............... back to the main topic... Thanks Joey B. and others for getting us off topic AGAIN....

So, sounds like there are a number of you that have STILL not heard from Mike (MD2020).

1. Tony

2. Panerai

Everyone else has received notification from Mike?

As I stated, I was also one that was in this mess when it all started and I received communication & my watch back from Mike.

[carliv]

I pm'd again 3 days ago and finally did get a response. Apologizing for the delay and telling me he would be getting to my watch by next weekend. I let him know that was fine and the waiting wasn't an issue just the zero responses for a month were. Hopefully I'll get some word in a week or two. Feeling at ease.

[JoeyB]

I believe I've been very much ON topic all along. 

[04harley]

Where did the number "17" watches come into play?  Did someone contact him and he stated that is how many he had?  Just curious.....I have 4 watches with Mike at the moment.  

[panerai153]

Thanks Mike I appreciate your response.

[04harley]

No worries Mike.  As many people that have been complaining.....I figured that you had more than just 17 watches to repair.  Like I told you before...no hurry on mine.  If you need to put someone in front of me, feel free to do so.  I'm not worried.

Now quit reading this crap and get back to work!!