Politics! (hell yeah!)

[whoever]

GO OBAMA CARE!!

 

even though.....imagine, if you had Obama care, there wouldn't have been Breaking Bad.....our dear Walt would have been taken care off by his insurance, he wouldn't have had to get his hands dirty.....! 

 

 

ANYWAY...now, imagine a world where you get sick....and boy, you don't need to pay 5000$ for a small surgery or whatever....you barely pay 100$, if you a complementary insurance you pay...well....NOTHING! 

 

 

 

WHAAAAAAT are you waiting for? 

 

 

 

 

 

(in case a member of congress is a fellow rwg member...maybe i could change his mind?) 

 

 

 

[Nanuq]

Boy this one could turn into a firestorm!  I'll keep my eye on it.  The Forum Rules say we're to shut political stuff down before it gets started, but we're all grown-ups here.  So keep it civil, folks.

 

[whoever]

haha, sorry....please if this goes wild, shut it down....

 

 

 

but isn't it fun? 

 

no but seriously.....don't want to start a shitstorm.....

[Mike on a bike]

Yes in the land of Obama care all Doctors ,Nurses even the nice folks in the R/T Dept all work for next to nothing and years of schooling are rewarded with minimal pay. But our politicians are immune to any such Obama-care rules they just get a free ride. :bangin:

 

Que Joey B: enter stage left (yes left,get it) so we can go at it as usual.

 

 

PS Easy Joey just kidding do not know your position on this one, but must admit we have had some good ones before!

[Nanuq]

I'll toss one small, very tiny twig on the fire...

 

I wrote my state senator Mark Begich and asked him why he voted to exempt himself from Obamacare.

 

If it's good enough for the great unwashed masses, then by God, it's good enough for him.

 

No reply yet.    

[Mike on a bike]

Don't hold your breath.

[jpz5142]

Oh man, where'd my gasoline go?

Could've sworn I had a tanker full of gasoline around here just a second ago....

I work in healthcare and have 2 physicians in the family, trust me the healthcare situation before was a nightmare to traverse. Now? Some speculate that MDs are going to drown in regulations and need to hire consultants to make sure that their carts and bills have all of the requisite dotted i and crossed t.

Oh, BTW, I did vote for Obama and like the idea of access for all to healthcare, however like everything once Washington got its dirty little mitts on the idea it got ugly, fast, real ugly.

Oh look, there's my gasoline......

:-)

[Mike on a bike]

Wow in health care and really thought they would get socialized medicine right as in without tons of forms and red tape, you are an optimist that's for sure.

[freddy333]

Having spent a bit of time working on Capitol Hill &, separately, publishing a medical journal, I would not trust Washington to build a paper airplane, let alone operate a health care system. & I say that having been a life-long Democrat.

If a system like Britain's National Health could be perfected to: eliminate the long wait times (often resulting in pain, suffering &, yes, premature death); bureaucratic ineptitude getting in between doctors/patients; advance medical research; & be fully funded by way of a VAT-like tax (to replace the current federal/state/local income tax system), I would be all for having someone like Visa run it (with government oversight).

[whoever]

Hm, ok, i know this is the classic USA VS EU thing, but I work with a lot of medics, both privat and public sector. ..and believe me, they are very far away from being poor or unprotected.

[chango]

From the ambulance standpoint I'm not sure how things are going to change for me.  I've been giving frivolous ambulance rides to homeless and public housing people for years and I'm sure I'll be doing the same for years to come. 

[jpz5142]

Wow in health care and really thought they would get socialized medicine right as in without tons of forms and red tape, you are an optimist that's for sure.

Well, let me set my pipe down and stop dreaming...

You know what they say, "Hi, I'm from the government. I'm here to help."

To those that believe it I've got another one for you, "A sucker is born every minute"

[Mike on a bike]

Funny freddy but as a life-long Republican I agree with you. They did not go far enough and it is a cluster f**k we must change to national health care system, run by yes Visa OK ! Funding well I do not like VAT and you may be surprised as to my view ,now that companies no longer have to pay health care put the tax on corporations. No exceptions what so ever and no more special plans for public employees or politicians. Then when their kids and Moms receive the same treatment you do, yes it will run  just fine.

 

 

PS In my plan medical school for Doctors is free based on aptitude nothing else no bull I want the best don't care if you are purple. We can do some no interest student loans for nursing and other fields. Why you ask, they are going to make less.

[fraggle42]

Living in the UK I say the NHS is one of the best things we have going here.

 

Yes, it's getting worse, but the new regulations behind it getting worse are trying to improve it, just the people who draft them up don't think things through properly.

 

As to nurses and doctors being paid a low wage? Doctors / consultants are paid a damn good wage, and they put in a damn hard weeks work to earn it.

 

Nurses get paid a reasonable wage, not good, not terrible.

 

The problem we have is a while back they thought that adding beaurocricy would ensure the smooth running of everything, but all it did was add stumbling blocks to just about everything the staff tried to do. And in subsequent cycles they've done the same things.

 

I think nowadays there's a reversal of this, certainly in private industry, where they've realised that doing that produces negative results, and usually when private industry realises something and does a U turn, the government and nationalised services (or government body regulated companies) follow suit a few years afterwards.

 

Personally when I nearly died following a motorbike accident I had 4 years of inpatient and outpatient hospital care, 12 major operations, countless xrays, dozens of ambulance and patient transport rides, enough drugs to fill up a bathtub, and it didn't cost me one penny.

 

And no one asked me to fill in any forms (apart from consent forms before the major ops, apart from the first one right after the accident when I wasn't in any state to say hello) before anything could happen.

 

I know the UK is almost unique having the NHS completely free, but I hope to god it never, ever changes.

[JoeyB]

Yes in the land of Obama care all Doctors ,Nurses even the nice folks in the R/T Dept all work for next to nothing and years of schooling are rewarded with minimal pay. But our politicians are immune to any such Obama-care rules they just get a free ride. :bangin:

 

Que Joey B: enter stage left (yes left,get it) so we can go at it as usual.

 

 

PS Easy Joey just kidding do not know your position on this one, but must admit we have had some good ones before!

Ya' know, they said the very same thing about Medicare, back in 1964. At that time doctors in the U.S. were mostly 'general practitioners', not specialists to any extent. In the cities most doctors made house calls, had an office up the narrow stairway from a drug store, and if they were paid cash they were happy. Even in the city barter was prominent, doctors driving the used car they had been paid with. Painting, plumbing, maintenance, electrical work, all to pay a bill. 

Medicare changed all that. It brought all those millions of elderly that could not pay their medical bills to become paying patients. That forced insurance companies to expand their products, and that helped to make a strong economy that forced businesses to provide health care coverage as perks in order to keep their employees. 

Physicians, who were almost always the most respected person in a community, were usually the monetarily poorest, unless they came from a wealthy family.  Within 24 months of Medicare and what it brought with it, physicians were becoming wealthy. The used car gone, a new Cadillac out front. No more house calls, and more specialists. The GP wasn't doing your surgery any longer. It was a good thing. Doctors were being paid for their sacrifices of years in education, and being on call 24/7. 

But doctors and hospitals and services are not being paid for their work and health care for those who did not have insurance, including illegals. President Reagan made it law that anyone with no health care coverage would get health care at the emergency room, and could not be turned down.  Certainly some abuse this program. The costs are spread out and averaged in so that all those who do have coverage, pay for those who don't. 

 

With the Affordable Care Act everyone must have health care coverage, or face a fine. The costs are subsidized for those at lower income levels, the pricing looks to be much more than fair and affordable.  

Doctors and hospitals will have 30+ million new paying patients, replacing 30+ million non-paying patients through the ER. 

 

The ACA is self-funding, which shows what sort of lies the Republican/conservative/Tea Party are telling in opposition to it.There are many ways it is self-funded, student loans being one way. Student loans used to be 'free' business guaranteed by the government and given to the banks. The same banks that crashed our economy. Now those student loans are part of the ACA, and the interest,, lowered, goes to fund the ACA. 

The ACA is not a health care coverage itself, but instead establishes 'exchanges' , a place where insurance providers can be shopped and compared and exposed for what they do and won't do. All these years insurance companies have been regulated by each state. Whether life, car, home, commercial or health insurance, each state controlled who could sell insurance in their state. That 'State's Rights' was vehemently defended by conservatives. Insurance companies could not go across state lines. So, little or no competition. Some states have as few as 2 insurance companies approved in their state. Now with the ACA all the insurance companies that choose to, can offer their product in each exchange. Full competition. 

 

Obviously, being a Liberal, I support the ACA. I would prefer universal Health Care in an industrialized  Nation that brags a lot, but is last to address the health care of it's citizens.  I think the ACA is a very good first step. 

[JoeyB]

I work in healthcare and have 2 physicians in the family, trust me the healthcare situation before was a nightmare to traverse. Now? Some speculate that MDs are going to drown in regulations and need to hire consultants to make sure that their carts and bills have all of the requisite dotted i and crossed t.

 

 

 

With 30+ million new, paying patients, and the end of 30+ million non-paying patients, I think they can hire someone to handle the paperwork. 

[JoeyB]

From the ambulance standpoint I'm not sure how things are going to change for me.  I've been giving frivolous ambulance rides to homeless and public housing people for years and I'm sure I'll be doing the same for years to come. 

You'll get paid. Take the amount of rides, multiply by the charges, and figure out how much your income will be going up. You should go out and carry a sign screaming for the ACA. 

[chronoluvvv]

30 million new patients sounds good

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

unless you like your medical care to be provided with some semblance of quality and timeliness

[JoeyB]

They did not go far enough and it is a cluster f**k we must change to national health care system

 

 

 

 

It's only a cluster____ now because it is brand new, and being overrun by sheer numbers of people who want it. And there are so very many lies being told, fear peddling, by the opposition. 

[panerai153]

I'm going to chime in here. I believe that Freddy has some good ideas, the problem is the exponential cost increases for health care are going to bankrupt the country. Someone has to pay the freight. If all of the graft and corruption were removed from the Federal programs, it would be a great start.

 

Another problem driving up costs are the folks who keep dreaming up all the new programs and regulations. While some may be helpful, for the most part, they create more time consuming work rather than streamlining the care of patients. Here is and example, EMR (Electronic Medical Records) sounds like a great idea, and in principle it would be, but it's a nightmare. biggest problem outside of the costs (My brother who is a Gastroenterologist started a group about 30+years ago, now 6 physicians in the group. they just installed their EMR system, cost the group 400,000 USD!! It's slow, and cumbersome, and it will eventually save time and money versus paper records, however it doesn't solve the biggest problem, which is access. The Docs in the group cannot access their system from the hospitals systems, so when they see a patient, the cannot send the results over to their office. they can see their hospital patient records from their office, but only from one hospital, as the other big hospital's system isn't compatible. When this was envisioned, we thought that there would be a universal standard, which would allow folks like us in rural areas to access records of our patients outside our area. here is an example, suppose I have a patient that comes in for surgery, and on his pre -op interview, he says he has had heart surgery, sees a cardiologist in another city, still has occasional chest pains, but has seen his cardiologist in the past few weeks. Now this guy is going to have surgery and an anesthetic. He needs a cardiac clearance before surgery. In a  perfect world, we could, with his permission, access his records from his cardiologist, read the reports and decide the course of action. Now if we find out all this the morning of surgery, most likely his surgery is going to be postponed or pushed back until we can get his information. this adds lots of wasted dollars and time to the system. So what we have here are a bunch of EMR systems around that don't talk to each other. Pretty useless.  

 

Another area of extreme waste is the needless duplication of services. Every hospital is trying to be all things to all people. I live in a small community with about 20k people in the town, and we serve and area of about 60-70 k. We have two hospitals here, a smaller one with about 100 beds and a mid size with about 150-160. Both hospitals off exactly the same services, which means that in this small town, we have 2 DeVinci robots at 1.4 million each and a required  service contract over over 100K per year each, 2 MRI machines, 2 64 slice CAT scanners, and the list goes on and on and on. None of this equipment is utilized to it's fullest capacity, because we have over twice the capacity that we need. Until some entity, Federal or state comes in and puts a stop to all this madness, the costs will continue to grow. We promise the citizens of the USA, womb to tomb state of the art healthcare, whether they need it or not, and it will eventually consume all of our resources. I have been watching this hydra headed monster grow for over 35 years, and it continues to grow unchecked. We have to get some sanity into the system or it will consume us all. We are all guilty, because as consumers we expect and demand the latest, greatest, most expensive state of the art equipment and procedures, and damn the cost. Eventually, we will pay, as the pendulum when it begins to swing, will invariably swing too far in the other direction and we will all suffer the consequences.

 

And joey, I'm going to respectfully disagree with you, the golden age of physicians was not after Medicare, but the 15-20 years before it. That was when the insurance companies were paying reasonable rates of reimbursement, and lots of folks had good health insurance. The age you speak about, when the physicians were getting chickens and eggs, vegetables, barter services, etc, was before that era. That was when you and I were growing up and were very young. I started my practice in 1977, and things were pretty darn good back then. Medicare was a revolution in the sense that now all elderly folks were covered, albeit at a lower reimbursement rate than private insurance. this was extremely good for all of the healthcare system, although it probably did change the physician/patient relationship, and not for the better. When things started to turn was when the private insurance companies realized that,"Hey" Medicare is reimbursing at 60% of our rates, and the hospitals and physicians are all accepting Medicare, why don't we negotiate our prices down to the Medicare level. That my friend is when things started to change. Of course that was also about the time  that some physicians and hospitals saw that they could game the system by upcoding, charging for procedures and supplies that were not performed, entering into unholy alliances, buying imaging centers, cancer treatment centers, etc. and then feeding them patients that may or may not have needed the services. We do have a broke system, and it needs to be fixed, I just don't know how exactly.

[JoeyB]

30 million new patients sounds good

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

unless you like your medical care to be provided with some semblance of quality and timeliness

'30+ million new, paying patients'.  They've been treating those 30+ million already, but for free. 

[KB]

Look I'm an Aussie so this is not my fight, however I do have an interest in world issues and one of the many issues that have intrigued is the pro and con arguments for Obamacare (ACA)

 

It seems to me that most opponents of the bill have a habit of just repeating the GOP stance without actually reading up on the bill itself.

 

One example is the mentioned congress exemption, this is of course quite a big porky by the Repubs and by law they must buy there insurance through Obamacare....... http://thedailybanter.com/2013/10/that-thing-about-congress-being-exempted-from-obamacare-huge-whopper-lie/

 

You know there was a time a few years back when due to many factors, the biggest being not thinking about it, I had let my private health insurance lapse.

 

As fate would have it I came down with, what I thought was, a bad sore throat which quickly worsened to a point that I could hardly breathe.

 

My wife took me down to Triage in the middle of the night then went home to get our daughter off to school, she was called back to the hospital and when she arrived they had me on life support.

 

I spent 2 weeks in an induced coma in ICU and then a couple of days in recovery, without our Medicare I would not have been here for the past 6 years.

 

We also have private insurance here for those that want it but medicare means everyone who needs medical assistance gets it and funnily enough it has never been a drain on our economy or private taxation.

 

I just cannot understand why the American people would not want this and it is not because the bill is flawed, your President is on record as reaching out to the Republicans and saying "Show me how we can improve this and we will talk", they don't want improvements they want it scrapped.

 

Just some more light (fun) reading..... http://search.atomz.com/search/?sp-q=Obamacare&sp-a=00062d45-sp00000000&sp-advanced=1&sp-p=all&sp-w-control=1&sp-w=alike&sp-date-range=-1&sp-x=any&sp-c=100&sp-m=1&sp-s=0&x=50&y=16

 

Ken

[Mike on a bike]

Joey my position on this is more left than yours, I proposed scrapping this half measure and going all in with a system more like KB has described. In addition I proposed taxing corporations for it. You can not get more liberal progressive than that! This being said I still maintain no exceptions everyone gets the same coverage public ,private everyone period. My one conservative hold out privately run they make more money by preventative care than sick care is the model, out comes and cost need to be balanced.

[JoeyB]

Joey my position on this is more left than yours, I proposed scrapping this half measure and going all in with a system more like KB has described. In addition I proposed taxing corporations for it. You can not get more liberal progressive than that! This being said I still maintain no exceptions everyone gets the same coverage public ,private everyone period. My one conservative hold out privately run they make more money by preventative care than sick care is the model, out comes and cost need to be balanced.

Actually, no, you are not more 'Left' than I am. As I said, I'd much prefer a universal health care plan. And I agree with your outline. However, as a Liberal, I realize that some things have to be taken one step at a time. conservatives would never have accepted any more of a plan that the ACA. In fact, the conservative model was used for the ACA as designed by the Heritrage Group and implemented in Massachusetts by Mitt Romney years ago. The idea being that congressional conservatives would vote for and support a plan from their own. There was one hitch. It was nicknamed 'Obamacare'. Anything that comes from Obama is automatically opposed by the 'right'. Even their own plans, as we saw this evening when they rejected the budget that used their lower dollar amounts that Democrats opposed. 

 

This opposition is purely opposition to President Obama. It is my belief that the opposition is racially charged. 

[KB]

And there's the rub, had it stayed simply as the ACA you wouldn't have a government shutdown now.

 

 

Ken