simonporsche Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Hi All, I need some feed back on an internet based watch swapping club. The basic idea is that you submit one of your gen watches into the 'pool', the watch would have to be checked for authenticity and second hand value before it's excepted into the club. You can then borrow a 'pool' watch for a maximum of 6 months. They'll be a monthly cost for the service (not yet decided) and a postage/admin cost per swap. You'll only be able to borrow a watch from the 'pool' which a low or equal value to your watch. You can up you borrowing credit by adding more watches or adding cash. Your watches and cash are used as collateral against the watch your borrow. You scrutiny is welcome as I think it has legs but I may be missing some major issues, plus I won't to see if people would give up one of their watches in the first place. I look forward to your views. Simon. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
importr Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Interesting idea, but personally I'd be worried about my watch being damaged. So if I wanted out of the club, what would I get back? Also there is the issue of trust. Sending thousands to a complete stranger and hoping he is legit. Finally, insurance. Is there any such insurance policy that would cover watches for hire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonporsche Posted February 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Thanks for you reply. The company would be insured against damages, but ultimately if the person borrowing the watch damages it then we have their watch as collateral, it would be just like damaging your own watch and within the contract the 'borrower' is liable and his/her watch will be used against the damages if they don't pay. If damages occur in transit then this will be claimed against the courier with who we'd be insured upto £15000 for now. If a member wants their watch back then you can call it back and allow upto two week for return. The initial trust thing is a recognised issue of mine and it may be that early customers come in to see us first and do a face to face swap first and as it grows then so does confidence. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cats Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 I like the concept but as importr already mentioned it get dameged by only wearing the watch. If i would participate i would draw a line at level of 5 to 600€. My expensive gen stay on my wrist or on the wrist of my son. Verzonden vanaf mijn iPad met behulp van Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonporsche Posted February 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Thanks for your reply Cats. I agree, I think it's important that we have a wide range of watch values to suit all pockets. Any input on how much people would pay for monthly for a service like this? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dropbear2008 Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 What if someone swaps a gen for a rep. Only few geeks out there who would realize. Might go through several hands before someone finds out... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonporsche Posted February 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 This is a real issue. It's a shame that there's a few people out there that can spoil it for others. Our policy will be to have the watch checked over by an experienced watch smith (yet to be looked in to). We'll only be taking in watches with manufactures paperwork and all serial numbers will be checked out and logged on our secure database. The serial numbers and watch will be checked on return. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martijnp Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 With all the above said, I just say no to join a watch swap pool like this.. Like the idea though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonporsche Posted February 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Martijnp, can I just ask what puts you off please? Appreciate the input. Thanks. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFors Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) Interesting idea, i believe a similar (rental) company already operates in LDN. Also, a couple of points to consider (i) Cost - assuming most watches will range from 4-8K and if each watch need to be checked for damages and potential modification / replacement of parts after each rotation. If you also add the cost of a background check of the members, insurance and operating cost, the yearly cost will be significant compared price of the watch. (in this i assume that watches in the 10k range will be less likely to join the scheme) (ii) Tax - might be an issue if you have clients in more than one region (iii) How would you manage the inventory, assuming some would like to keep the watch for 1 months and some for 6 months. Also, some watches would be significantly more attractive than others - which might lead to conflicts. Saying that, this could be resolved with an online market place. Edited February 14, 2014 by AndyFors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martijnp Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Most of it the condition of the watch. I'm very careful on all my stuff and if I put a watch in the pool, i'm never sure in what condition I get my watch back.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonporsche Posted February 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 @AndyFors. Hi Andy, thanks gor your feed back. Do you know the website of the one in London? We're also UK based and I couldn't find a similar business model. (i) Maybe I'm a little naive, but I was hoping that repair work won't be as common as people fear. If we can attract watch loves and they have their own watches in the pool then they, like me look after their watches. The way I imagine the concept is like an extension of your watch box. (ii) we're only looking at starting in the UK market first. (iii) Alot of time and money will be spent on a web based experience where you have your profile which shows you all your info. You can see the pool of watches which may only be as big as 20 watches at anyone time but with swaps happening hopefully every day and immediately rotating the pool. On the site you'd be able to select and reserve the watch you want. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonporsche Posted February 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 @martijnp. This I think maybe the biggest hurdle. Personally I have 3 watches in my collecting and wouldn't mind sacrificing one for another. It's just weather enough people think the same way. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike on a bike Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 This is never going to work my friend, do not wast your time. Two of the biggest problems you have are Reps and rogues, good guys that check out go bad all the time trust me. Better call Lloyds of London to insure all watches in the pool or none starter, would not be getting one of mine with out it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFors Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Hi Simon, Sorry, cant find the address - but believe its at least one rectal of watches and jewelleries operates in the bond street region. You might also want to check out these guys: www.borrowedtimewatches.com Out of intrest are you looking to operate this as closed circle club or as a business? i've read a few articles about trust based watch clubs operating in a "wider” circle of friends Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGMAN Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 I agree with Mike on this one. I'd be very cautious sending one of my gens to an unknown entity. Even if the company looked legit and guaranteed my watch the person on the other ends borrowing my watch may not be. The reality is the receiving person may or may not value the watch as I do and a few scratches isn't a big deal. My point is if I send you a flawless watch today and get a scratched and worn version back in a year or two who pays for that? I'm not even going to touch a gen to rep switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonporsche Posted February 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 @Mike on a bike, thanks Mike these are my concerns, but I like the upside too. These reasons are why we'd be vetting the watch and member before hand. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonporsche Posted February 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 @frogman. Thanks frogman. The idea would be to give the watch back as it was received. If this means a light polish then so be it. If the extent of the condition is serious then this is a different matter and a replacement may be the result. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonporsche Posted February 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 @AndyFors. I've seen borrowedtime and the concept seems to be a pure rental one and the cost is around $30 a day. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fracture Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 It's an interesting idea but I wouldn't join. Watches are a personal thing I believe and it wouldn't feel right wearing a watch that isn't mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krpster Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 Pretty sure this has been discussed several times in the past with the conclusion being that it just isn't a good idea from the standpoint of a business or a member. For me it would all center around damage and loss. A few items to deal with off the top of my head: How to resize for each recipient? Surely do not expect the renter/trader to resize them selves. If so this will guarantee damage, scratches and lost parts. You could mandate take to a jeweller but no way to enforce. How to ship multiple times without damage. There is no doubt that shipping and handling are not the greatest for a time piece. Statistically a few times in its life would be fine but making frequent trips increases potential for mishandling and permanent damage. As others mentioned, insurance. You would need it and I would expect that the premiums would be very cost prohibitive resulting in high costs for the business and or customer. At the end of it all I would not put one of my gens in either. I am extremely particular about my watches and there is no doubt that if it were to go into some kind of trade or sharing system it would not come out the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aero_Dave Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 OK, I do like the idea but also have a few concerns. Let's say I send in one of mine and it's valued at $3500. I then can pick from the pool of watches at or below the $3500 value. I understand the concept. But: #1 - what does my monthly fee get me? * Free shipping? * Cost pays into insurance? #2 - Someone has taken my watch out on loan. Its either damaged or never returned. * Do I get to choose who repairs my watch if its fixable? * Do I get $3500 cash sent to me if its lost to stolen? * Do I get 1st rights to keep the original borrowers watch as my replacement if its never returned? #3 - What is the watch is returned, checked for correct serial #'s etc.. but then its now running badly? * Are all watches returned going to be checked for timing & water resistance? * If a watch sits in the pool for more than 3-4 weeks, will it be checked again before going out? As you can start to see, the cost for just checking each watch, every time its comes back or before it goes out again is going to get expenisve. Not sure all of these concerns are really going to make it worth-wild. Unless your not really into this to make a profit, but just to share watches between watch enthusiast. Dave... BTW, I just noticed it appears that today is my 1-year anniversary here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippin23 Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 I think it would be easier to get a small business loan, buy five or ten watches and go for it that way. My guess is that business taxes, people interested long term and crooks would be the issue. You're looking at a thousand dollar a month payment on a 80,000 loan plus insurance and operating costs. So, 10 people at $100/month would pay the loan. The majority of people that I know who splurge on high end items don't need to rent or join a club. They purchase what they want or they have friends who already have what they want. It would be hard to break even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonporsche Posted February 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 @Aero_Dave. Thanks Dave. Monthly fee would go towards the running cost of the business which would involve admin, web admin, watch checking, postal sorting etc. this would also cover our insurance costs, which actually aren't as much as you'd imagine because the negatives of damages should really only be a minimum as most watch lovers do take care of watches regardless of ownership. Also the risk is spread because other than the pool of watches the others are in singular locations. Also the postage insurance would be covered in the couriers package. Every time you swap a watch you'll have to pay a fee which covers postage and admin. If your watch is damaged or lost then you could chose who repairs it (good idea). You can have the cash value sent to you or a second hand of equal condition replacement. Keeping the members watch that has lost yours maybe a step to far. The watch will need servicing base on manufacturers recommendations at a cost to the member, this would be to ensure top quality watches. If a watch runs badly on return then we'd have to look into this and repair as necessary. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraggle42 Posted February 14, 2014 Report Share Posted February 14, 2014 I recall a few schemes that had cars tried to get off the ground. None did. There are too many companies out there who own a dozen exotic cars and rent them out (although I know some owners do hire their cars out to these places but that is not common IIRC) and very few people want to put their valuable property in the trust of complete strangers. Insurance schemes always offer you below market value, which is bound to be way less than the value individuals put on their watches, how will you deal with that? How will you persuade people to send you thousands of pounds worth of property to a new startup company? How will you assure people their watch is still indeed their watch when it comes back? The only thing I would trust would be a written report on the watch by the manufacturer when it went in, and another report by the manufacturer when it came back out again, and I would expect it to be serviced at that time as well, at the companies cost. And the only insurance I would trust is a bond for the agreed value held in a bank account. Basically, it isn't going to work. If I wanted to swap watches with a friend, that's exactly what I'd do. I trust my friends. I couldn't trust strangers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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