automatico Posted June 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 Random '1016' movement/case combo Q & A from messages and posts: Q...On mounting of the gen 1570 on the 2824 case in terms of diameter it works, but not sure about the height. A...The distance from the stem center line to the dial is the critical measurement...then add the thickness of the dial. Most genuine vintage rlx dials are .40mm plus or minus, replica dials may be a little bit less. Q...Is there a specific spacer that assures a correct placement of the movement or is it trial and error? A...In the projects I have done using an aftmkt 15xx rlx case with a rlx 15xx movement, I did not need a spacer IF the case is made for a date or no date movement and that is what you are putting in it. You can read about using a spacer between the movement and dial on MBK 55xx/1680 cases when using a no date rlx 15xx movement above. An RWG friend (Stilty, from Canada) had some special ETA to rlx case spacers CNC machined about 10 years ago and later Yuki had the same type of spacer made and they are still available. Q...Do you always have to use the stamped metal dial spacer on ETA's when it has nothing to do with spacing the dial away from the date wheel? A...The spacer is needed to level the dial. I stuck an ETA 2836 with 26.0mm dial without the calendar spacer in a Yuki '5513' OEM spec case and the stem does not line up. A little better without the spacer but not much. Besides that, the dial flops around on the movement because the spacer also holds the dial level. in cases made for a 15xx movement, I needed an OD type spacer to fit an ETA 28xx movement in the case because an ETA movement is 11.5 ligne size and a 15xx rlx is 12.5 ligne size (1 ligne = 2.2558291 mm). I make spacers out of brass flat washers on a lathe and cut them to fit the movement OD and case ID. Some standard brass cartel watch spacers will do the job. I also make some of the spacers with a shoulder that comes up higher than the movement plate so I can stick the dial to the spacer when using dials made for rlx movements without dial feet and do away with the flimsy stamped metal ETA spacer. Fyi...I bought a nos Eta 2879 day/date movement and it has the calendar spacer made on the movement plate, not a sheet metal spacer. They will work in cases made for Eta 2836/46 and have the 21600 beat rate that is close to the rolex 1520/1570 19800 bph...but they are not good for 5512/13 projects in genuine spec cases because they will be too thick like an ETA 2836/46. Imho, most cartel DJ 16200 type cases are better suited to ETA 36mm DJ/modern sapphire explorer etc. projects than '1016' projects especially if they do not have 'through and through' lug holes because lug holes are very hard to get right when drilling them in blind lugs. When using cartel cases you can also have trouble fitting a 2836 in a case made for a 2824 or putting a 2824 in a 2836 case...plus drilling lug holes. I did a '1016' project using an early genuine rlx 162xx case with a 1570 and it turned out pretty good and although the case is not exactly 1016 spec, it is very high quality and looked fine. There is also plenty of metal around the lug holes to drill the holes to 1.25 or 1.3mm without getting too close to an edge like some of the cartel cases. A genuine rlx 160xx case might be closer to a 1016 than a 162xx case but you would probably need to use a calendar spacer etc. like with an MBK 55xx/1680 case when using a rlx 15xx movement. I never tried it so I do not know for sure. I still have my JMB '1016' with a combo 2824/2836 movement and it has been fine. The combo movement I put together seems to run Ok but like all ETA movements in my experience it needs more active wear to keep the running reserve up compared to a rlx 15xx movement. I drilled/tapped the JMB case to put a standard 6.0mm case tube in it so it would accept a standard 6.0mm crown...I used a replica crown on it though. Random comments: I have used Eta 2836/46 movements only in cartel/MBK cases that were made for Eta 2836/46/DG etc movements. Externally the 2836 is basically the same as a 2846. So...I tried a 2836 with 26.0mm dial in a Yuki 5513 genuine spec case and it would not work because the movement is too thick and the stem will not line up in the case tube...it is too far toward the back. A 2824 would probably work but I did not try one. Note...the movement still has the dial spacer so removing it will make the movement thinner but probably not thin enough. The movement/dial combo I tried in the Yuki OEM spec case was from an MBK '5512' and they use standard Eta 2836 movements with the calendar guts removed but with the calendar spacer left on. The details on the MBK cases are at the top of this sticky. If you wanted to use an ETA 2846 in a Yuki 55xx it would probably be like my JMB '1016' project where I had to use a set of 2824 plates with 2846 running gear (escapement etc) plus center wheel/hour wheel/canon pinion. HellofaMess unless you like taking Eta movements apart, mixing parts up, and putting them back together. Besides that, since the movements had no service history and had been handled, I also had to c/o them both. In rlx 1016, 55xx projects... "I could sell my 2846 and get a 2824 to get a thinner movement." The 2824 = wrong beat rate and the center wheel/hour wheel/cp may be too low, making the hands too close to the dial. The bottom line is... Projects like this always turn out to be trial and error unless you are working on a standard project with known parameters. If a 2836/46 is too thick, you either have to go with a 2824 (wrong beat rate), a combo 2824/2846 movement (hassle), or a thin Eta/A Schild etc. of some sort with the 21600 beat rate. Early rlx 15xx were 18000 bph but most are 19200 bph and 21600 bph is close enough (for me anyway). Like I said before...It's a HellofaMess (on a very small scale). Otoh look at the bright side...by the time you get finished, you will know more about vintage rolex projects than 95% of RWG members...for what it's worth. Ha! Yuki adapter: https://rwg.cc/topic/116411-yuki-eta-2824-adaptor Dial with no dial feet: https://rwg.cc/topic/183724-dial-with-no-feet 6610 Explorer: https://rwg.cc/topic/189330-rolex-6610-explorer-with-a-r-e-a-l-gilt-dial-pure-beauty/ DJ 1600/16000 info: https://rwg.cc/topic/192376-datejust-160016000/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotrick Posted June 18, 2019 Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 But you will still be in that rarefied 5%, I'm always amazed about your knowledge of cases and movements Rick! Cheers, Rick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted June 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 "...I'm always amazed about your knowledge of cases and movements Rick!" Thanks, I appreciate it! The bottom line (imho) is the 40+ year accumulation of 'useless knowledge' gained from my watch hobby is really not worth much in today's world outside of this and similar forums. The mechanical watch seems to be going the way of the dinosaur as the current generation shuns traditional watches for I-phones and smart watches in their early $$ earning years. Maybe mechanical and/or vintage watches will catch on later in life but who knows? By then they may really cost a fortune. As for younger 'watch nuts' wanting to go into the repair trade, things are not rosy at all as the 'Big Name Brand' watch repair business is swinging toward 'corporate watch repair' as can be seen by the latest rolex move to cut off parts to almost all of the remaining independent US repair shops that work on rolex watches. Since most brands have already gone or are in the process of going this route, repair guys will have to go corporate, go AD, or go independent and swap out batteries and quartz movements to pay the rent while searching for mechanical watch repair parts. Forums like this one are unique because a large percentage of members know a lot about watches in general where the average 'brand forum member' usually only knows a little about certain watch brands...mostly reference numbers, movement caliber designations, and production dates, along with their most important questions of all...What's New? Are they available yet? Who has one? How much are they? Everyone wants a rolex but almost everyone wears a Timex. (or Citizen/Seiko/Fossil etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotrick Posted June 19, 2019 Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 2 hours ago, automatico said: "...I'm always amazed about your knowledge of cases and movements Rick!" Thanks, I appreciate it! The bottom line (imho) is the 40+ year accumulation of 'useless knowledge' gained from my watch hobby is really not worth much in today's world outside of this and similar forums. The mechanical watch seems to be going the way of the dinosaur as the current generation shuns traditional watches for I-phones and smart watches in their early $$ earning years. Maybe mechanical and/or vintage watches will catch on later in life but who knows? By then they may really cost a fortune. As for younger 'watch nuts' wanting to go into the repair trade, things are not rosy at all as the 'Big Name Brand' watch repair business is swinging toward 'corporate watch repair' as can be seen by the latest rolex move to cut off parts to almost all of the remaining independent US repair shops that work on rolex watches. Since most brands have already gone or are in the process of going this route, repair guys will have to go corporate, go AD, or go independent and swap out batteries and quartz movements to pay the rent while searching for mechanical watch repair parts. Forums like this one are unique because a large percentage of members know a lot about watches in general where the average 'brand forum member' usually only knows a little about certain watch brands...mostly reference numbers, movement caliber designations, and production dates, along with their most important questions of all...What's New? Are they available yet? Who has one? How much are they? Everyone wants a rolex but almost everyone wears a Timex. (or Citizen/Seiko/Fossil etc) And yet the value of vintage rolexes is still quite strong even at the lower end where I generally hunt. If it wasn't for guys like you and Misiek I probably wouldn't collect those either!l Regards, Rick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted June 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 "And yet the value of vintage rolexes is still quite strong even at the lower end where I generally hunt." Agree. I have snagged a few pretty good rolex buys in the last few years but they were not mainstream models. One was a gold top 6694, one was a manual wind no date model, and one was an older 17 jewel (1520) 5500 AK. Otoh I looked on eBay at sold 6694 just now and they are going for around $1100 to $2500 so that's not too bad at the lower end of the prices. I paid $500 for the gold top 6694 and the owner threw some other watchjunk in with the deal so I ended up with about $400 in it but it needs a case tube, crown, crystal, and clean/oil etc = about $500 when finished with crystal, gaskets, spring bars, strap, buckle, ST case tube, swiss Générale Ressorts mainspring, and a good used crown, c/o is free. It probably sold for $250 or less when new. Gold top vintage rolex watches were said to have around 80 microns of gold on top of the case and the bezels were solid gold, usually 14k. The gold case top was a gold cap soldered on the steel case similar to heavy gold fill...you can see the edge of the gold cap on the bottom of the cases. They seem to hold up for many years with no wear through unless some Gomer buffs the gold off the case. A lot of older watches had 20 microns of gold plating on the case, a few were 40 microns, and watches with heavy plating usually have the thickness stamped on them somewhere. Today the better brands are usually 10 microns or less and some cheaper brands are 'flash plated'...you can rub the plating off with a Fabulustre polishing cloth in two or three swipes. Here is a 40 micron rolex case: http://www.passions.com.sg/v2/watch/rolex-30mm-c1960s-oysterdate-precision-ref6466-yellow-gold-40microns-plated High quality Générale Ressorts mainsprings come in many swiss watch brands. A few US GR mainspring suppliers: Cas-Ker Inc Esslinger And Co Jules Borel & Co Otto Frei Some may market them under a supply house brand or other brand name. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capice Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 great info mate, thanks for sharing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotrick Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 "Gold top vintage rolex watches were said to have around 80 microns of gold on top of the case and the bezels were solid gold, usually 14k. The gold case top was a gold cap soldered on the steel case similar to heavy gold fill." This is good to know, I haven't delved into them because I thought the gold might rub off like it has on some lesser brands I have owned. Cheers, Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted November 9, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2019 I am adding this post on 'shortcut' GMT conversions for rlx 1560/70 movements so it will not get buried in regular posts: First posted Thursday at 04:50 PM I've had a 'J$Wcom' 1655 case for about 10 years that I got from a member but never used because I did not want to use my genuine GMT parts to convert a regular 1570/5 rlx date movement to GMT for a project as the GMT parts are getting expensive and very hard to get. Also have a 'shortcut' GMT conversion that came with the case. The shortcut conversion gets a bad rap (usually because it deserves it) but there is more than one version of the conversion. The one I have is well made and has a finely finished minute wheel and 24 hour drive wheel making it worth the trouble to give it a try. The major defect with these conversions is the poorly fitting 24 hour wheel that is a sloppy fit over the original 12 hour wheel causing the 24H wheel to slip on the minute wheel drive gear or bind up and stall the movement. The other defect is that these conversions are often used with regular 12 hour date movement center wheel/CP/hour wheel and because the regular 12 hour wheel hub is shorter, the 24H hand is too close to the dial and 12H hand with very little clearance between the other hands. The 24H hand on this conversion is not too close to the dial because the 24H wheel tube is oem length and when the genuine 15xx GMT 12H wheel, center wheel, and canon pinion are used there is plenty of room. So...I made a bushing out of a stainless spring bar tube to take up the slack between the 24H wheel tube ID and 12H wheel tube OD in addition to using a genuine 1570/75 GMT center wheel/CP/hour wheel combo to allow room for the 12H and minute hands. By using these genuine GMT parts, no one can tell it is a shortcut conversion when looking at the watch with the dial installed. Another hassle with these things (besides locating/affording the genuine GMT parts) is getting the 24H hand, 12H hand, and date flip to all work together at 12 midnight. It is bad enough to get them all to correspond mechanically but it has the added problem of the date not flipping at the exact same time every night because although the date flip depends on 'precise' gearing to keep it on time, it also depends on spring tension and always will have a small amount of 'gear slack'. You can install the hands at 12 midnight by slowly running the time around with the crown until the date flips and line them all up but after it runs 24 hours and all comes together again at 12 midnight...the date can flip early or late as much as 5 or 6 minutes. Why? Because of slack in the wheels and the 'date flipper' spring. You just have to get it as close as you can and live with it. There is also a difference between letting it run until the date flips to install the hands and running the hands around with the crown until it flips. There can be a minute of two (maybe more) difference between the two methods. I usually let them run until the date flips after setting the hands at 11pm or a little later by the crown. This shortcut conversion movement has been running for a week now with no trouble and I will report on it again in a few months. The 12/24 hour hand alignment is Ok and the date flips within 2 or 3 minutes...close enough for me. Miscellaneous: All the standard 1575 date calendar parts and calendar disc spacer were used with this conversion. The standard calendar disc spacer is .8mm thick and a GMT spacer is 1.0mm thick. A 1565/70/75 date movement is 6.3mm thick and a 1565/75 GMT is 6.5mm thick with all the difference being above the stem centerline. A genuine 1655 dial is 27.3mm in diameter. Ex II 1655 and GMT 1675 movements are identical. The thicker GMT calendar disc spacer is not needed as the shortcut GMT conversion does not take up any additional space between the movement and dial because the longer 24H and 12H wheel tubes and CP pass through the dial center hole. A dial washer was used to keep the 24H wheel in mesh. The same 1570/5 'date flipper' is also used and this saves from having to use the high $$ oem GMT date flipper and calendar disc spacer. The GMT calendar disc spacer (p/n 8037/7957 plus a few others) and calendar wheel aka 'date flipper' (p/n 8034) are near impossible to find today. Saw a used one for $965 (!!) on eBay a while back, # 264511039148. The special calendar wheel nut (p/n 8035) is also very hard to find. The modified minute wheel on this particular kit has an 'axle' pressed in the minute wheel with the 24 hour drive gear made on the top of the axle so the original minute wheel stud (p/n 1888-1) has to be removed from the main plate (press fit). Now the 'axle' runs in the main plate and this should work Ok as it is a low stress part...time will tell. The minute wheel axle is lubed with KT22 grease where it turns in the main plate. When looking for parts for rlx 1570/5 GMT movements, look for 1565 GMT parts because the 1565 was the first 15xx GMT movement and will include all the GMT parts. They are exactly the same parts used in a 1570/75 GMT mvt. There is no difference between any 1565/70/75 date movement and a 1560/1570/75 GMT movement except for the beat rate and GMT parts...the base movement is the same. The 1565GMT runs at 18000 bph and the 1575GMT runs at 19800 bph. The 1655 and 1675 GMT use the same crystal, 25-116. The 1675 GMT uses a 5.3mm crown and the 1655 uses a 6.0mm crown. A 1655 case is slightly thicker than a 1675 GMT but a replica GMT etc case can sometimes be used with a 116 crystal and oem spec aftmkt bezel to make a pretty good 1655 as long as the dial will fit and the crown guards look Ok. Crown guards are a common defect with replica 1675 GMT because they are usually cut for 6.0 or 7.0mm crowns and are not thick enough when looking at them from the front of the case. A not so good 1675 GMT case might make a pretty good 1655 case except for maybe being too thin and few will notice this small detail. Every genuine 1655 I have seen had a hack movement...my project 1655 does not hack because the movement is older. Afaik the first hack movements were hit or miss in the late 1960s and 'officially' introduced in 1972. The first 1655 was around 1971. Many may disagree as usual. Q...Where can you get a 'shortcut' GMT kit? A...I do not know and if anyone finds them please put it on here. What have I learned? Imho a 'freshened' swiss ETA 2846 with a China non adjustable 24H hand GMT conversion is a better $$ choice for most 1655/1675 projects. Budget 1655/1675 projects can get by with a DG 3804 as long as it is clean and has been properly oiled. I stuck this one together because I already had a 1570/75 movement and the shortcut conversion. 'Freshened' = cleaned, oiled, and maybe a mainspring. A new genuine GMT calendar wheel aka 'date flipper' p/n 8034 was offered on eBay for $965 in November 2019 but the link is no longer active. There is an extra set of teeth to drive the 24H wheel on them and some sellers will claim a regular date flipper is for a GMT and the same claim is often made for regular 'date only' calendar disc spacers. A low grade GMT conversion, note the loose 24H wheel. Mine was not this bad at all. The lower picture is a correct GMT movement. https://rwg.cc/topic/141303-cal-1570-gmt-tell-me-if-i-m-wrong/ Update November 2020: I have a good cartel '1655' case but the rlx 15xx GMT movement will not fit in it because the OD of the movement is 28.5mm and the ID of the case is 28.3mm. I am going to machine the ID of the case and see if the rlx movement will fit to keep from using the J$Wcom case. I'll report on it later. Later: No go. The oem spec dial (27.3mm) just barely hangs in the case with the dial centered, the only thing keeping the movement/dial in place and preventing it from almost passing through the front of the case is the 28.5mm wide ridge on the movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted February 20, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 Update later in November 2020: I have a good cartel '1655' case but the rlx 15xx GMT movement will not fit in it because the OD of the movement is 28.5mm and the ID of the case is 28.3mm. I am going to machine the ID of the case and see if the rlx movement will fit to keep from using the J$Wcom case. I'll report on it later. Later... Turns out the 1570 will fit into the cartel case (it was not going in level) so the dial is the next challenge. I first tried to use a 'white lume' cartel dial but the dial feet would not stick to the dial so I used a 'yellow lume' cartel dial without dial feet. (This turned out to be another fiasco but I'll skip it because it ended up with dial strips.) It seems to be Ok now and the dial strips between the calendar spacer and dial give enough room for all the date works to clear. This dial was made for this type of case and it fits. The date window is a hair to the left but the dial is centered on the mvt and the movement is centered on the dial so that's as close as it gets. February 20, 2021 The '1655' project with the 'shortcut' 1570 GMT movement is getting close to being finished. I had to install four new reverser pivot jewels in place of the brass bushings in the autowind assembly (a 17 jewel model a/w unit from an old 1520). This movement is made up of bits and pieces left over from projects and repairs. Swapping out bushings for jewels is usually not much trouble except the OD of the reverser bushing is a hair over 1.10mm, the size used in 25/26 jewel movements. So...each hole in the a/w assembly has to be broached out to a hair less than 1.20mm and the next size jewel installed (light press fit). I had only four jewels for four holes so naturally the last one shattered. Why? Because I was using a broach from a Seitz jeweling tool and should have used a standard broach. The Seitz broach cutter blade is about 8mm long and steeply tapered like a tree leaf and a standard broach has about 75mm of cutting area with a slow tapered cutting edge making it easier to cut gradually. You have to go slow because the 'Seitz takes bigger bites'. Ha! I ordered three new jewels and they should be here next week...three jewels = $30 + tax and shp!! Three jewels down and one to go. I already changed the top intermediate wheel (aka transmission wheel) bushing to a jewel and the jewel was the same size as the bushing. What is strange is they used a jewel on the lower transmission pivot where it does not show but from the top side all you see are bushings. They called the 17 jewel 1520 movements in 5500/5513 etc 'tariff beaters' because there was a tariff on watches over 17 jewels back then. The tariff was probably only a few dollars because the watches probably sold for $150 to $250 or so. Something funny about the 17 jewel movements is the steel reverser pivots sometimes wear out while the brass bushings still look new. Two pivots out of four on the 1520 were worn out, one almost gone, it looked like a needle. I forgot... Before the jewel fiasco I had the 'pleasure' of installing a new rotor axle in the auto weight. The flimsy center of the weight was bent (of course) so it had to be straightened first, then you have to peen the rivet with a 'special' staking punch made for this particular job. 'Special' in this case really means not all aftmkt punches for this chore are equal. I have ended up with four over the years...two no fitters and two that work. The two that work are from J Borel and ST. The other two shall remain anonymous. Note: The dates are pretty close but I may have missed a few. It does not matter anyway but as of 2-20-2021 all that is left is installing the one reverser jewel, cleaning and oiling the a/w assembly along with fitting the second hand bit and installing the a/w assembly...and crystal. Ah yes, the crystal... A 116 for 1655/1675 will not work because the case neck OD/bez ID is a little bit bigger than OEM. Maybe a 118 (16xx DJ) will. I'll post the results later. If I do not go Stark Raving MAD. (MADDER?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted March 1, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2021 March 1, 2021 I finally got the '1655' project together and running. It turned out Ok but was a real hassle, not worth the time and trouble. I really just wanted to see if the shortcut modification would work with a bushing inside the 24 hour wheel to hold it in mesh along with the proper GMT CP, hour wheel etc to properly space the hands apart. Many of the quickie GMT kits did not have a 24H wheel bushing or correct H wheel, CP etc so they were a flop out of the box. So...what's next? I may remove the 'shortcut' GMT movement and put it in a 1603 case. I will have to remove the GMT canon pinion, hour wheel etc along with the modified minute wheel and put a new minute wheel post in the main plate...probably have to make one. I have a good 1603 case but the white dial with gold markers is faded and spotted...a 'tropic dial'. Ha! Have a blue dial with gold markers but it is worse, looks like someone laid it down by a blowtorch. Also have a 14k 16xx DJ bezel and gold crown plus a 14k signed buckle on a croc strap so it will make a nice knock around watch. Why go to all the trouble to begin with? The 1570/75 was a 'ruffy' (stem rusted in the main plate, rusty screws etc) and it needed a LOT of work anyway (c/o, rotor axle mainspring etc) so I decided to try the shortcut GMT conversion on it. I may put a swiss ETA 2846 with china GMT conversion in the '1655' case. Maybe not. Update March 4, 2021 "put a new minute wheel post in the main plate...probably have to make one" Could not find an 'affordable' minute wheel post (aka minute wheel stud) p/n 7888-1* so I planned to use a .5mm steel rod of some sort to make a minute wheel post. Could not find a suitable .5mm rod either so I bought a miniature drill bit set with a .5mm HSS drill bit in it. It has to be the type of bit made to insert into a pin vise so there will be some unfluted rod to make the post out of. Many mini-drill bit sets have the bit welded to an adapter leaving no length without flutes. *Found a 7888-1 but it was $20 (!!) plus shipping/handling making it over $30USD. Not for me. Followup 4-28-21 I posted this to show what an expen$ive, screwed up mess this can turn into today. A 1016, 5512, 5513, 1680 etc would be a LOT easier and cheaper if you want to use a genuine rlx 15xx movement. Saw these today on eBay... GMT parts needed for the 'shortcut' GMT modification not counting the non original modified minute wheel and non original 24 hour wheel... New Rolex 1565/1575 GMT 8030 Center Wheel with Cannon Pinion $215 133195881822 Used Rolex1575 GMT 8039 Double Tooth Hour Wheel (2.44mm) $485 284225493914 10-7-21 The USED hour wheel on eBay sold for $485! Someone really needed it. "Rolex 1575 GMT 8039 Hour Wheel With Double Toothing (2.44mm) Genuine Excellent." So... a 'shortcut' GMT movement would probably cost over $3000 today allowing $1000+ for genuine parts from eBay plus the non original 24H wheel and center wheel. Probably close to $1100 or $1200 for 'shortcut' parts...plus a complete rolex 1570/75 date movement plus c/o labor cost etc, plus a case, dial, hands, bracelet etc. IF the non original 'shortcut' parts worked first time around and mine did not without making a bushing for the 24H wheel. Not needed for the 'shortcut' modification but needed for a full conversion: new Rolex 1565/1575 GMT 8040 24 Hour Wheel $285 284225466968 From: Cal. 1570 GMT- tell me if I m wrong ? - The Rolex Area - RWG Here is most of what is needed to convert a 1565/75 to a 1565/75 GMT: #8038 - center second pinion 5.70mm #8037 - Cannon Pinion 3.39mm #8039 - double tooth hour wheel 2.44mm #8040 - 24hr wheel 1.41mm #8035 - Calendar Wheel nut #8036 - Date Jumper #8006 - Yoke for cam #8008 - spring for cam yoke #8011 - stud for cam #8030 - Center wheel with Cannon Pinion #8034 - Calendar Wheel #8011 - Stud for Cam #8037 - calendar spacer NOTE: I see the #7965 calendar spacer listed on eBay etc. for 1565/1575 GMT movements with high prices. #7965 calendar spacer shows to be made for Rolex 1565/75 date movements #8037 calendar spacer shows to be for 1565/1575 GMT movements Example: 1575 | 7956 | Date Indicator Calendar Seating Ring | eBay What is hard to find? All of it. What is hardest to find? #8037 calendar spacer #8034 - Calendar Wheel #8039 - double tooth hour wheel 2.44mm 8037 usually goes from $200 to $500 8034 usually $200 to $400 8039 used to be $200 or so...now close to $500 8034 calendar wheel aka 'date flipper' on eBay a few months back for $965 (!!) They must be getting hard to find. 8036 date jumper currently on eBay (7-27-21 item 184060183308) for $389 + $20 shipping This is the part that centers the date wheel in the window and keeps it in place, last one I bought new was $38 iirc. Updates: 10-7-21...the 'shortcut 1655' is still running fine with no problems. 10-19-22...I made a note above on #8037 GMT calendar spacer rings. The 'SC 1655' still runs fine but has been parked for a couple months. I'll leave it together if I can find a reasonably priced set of atfmkt hands for my other GMT project mentioned below. If not, I'll take the movement out, remove the 'shortcut' GMT parts, and put the movement back in the DJ it came out of. Then use the hands from it in the Phong project. As of August 2022, MQ '1655' hands are $380US delivered. I would not pay that much for hands for a relatively low $$ project like the shortcut watch but I also have a complete 1575 GMT movement and Phong case/dial, so maybe the MQ hands would be OK for it and leave the shortcut watch alone. Been mulling it over. I tried a set of '1655' hands made for an ETA 2836 on a rolex 1575 and there is too much difference in them to work. The GMT hand is not much of a problem because WSO has a pretty good '1655' 24 hour hand in their '1655' hand sets for genuine movements, but the H and M hands are not too hot...the lume slot is too long. For a 'no dot' sweep sec hand...they are available from many aftmkt suppliers. Example: Watch Hand Refills Regular, Medium and Long Post Style Sweep Second Hand (esslinger.com) Btw...it looks like I need to change my motto to: "No parts for you...never ever!" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted March 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2021 3-15-2021 Lessons learned... Every time I work on a project with 'non-original parts' it is usually a frustrating learning experience of some sort. The long drawn out '1655' project with the 'quickie' GMT conversion was no exception. It might even be 'The Champion'. It will remain The Champion until I finish the J&W.com case '1655' that has been on the back burner for about 11 years. It took a few years just to gather up two or three genuine GMT parts that were needed after already having the 'hard to find' GMT parts. Why was this 'shortcut GMT' project a headache? First...the stem was rusted solid in the main plate and broken off even with the plate. This took a month or so to fix mainly because it had already been apart since April 2010 so there was no hurry. The fix...soaked the edge of the plate with the broken stem in white vinegar until it dissolved. Since the plate is rhodium plated brass it tarnished the plating a little but the plate was same as new after the vinegar dip. It took a couple weeks to dissolve the stem. Second...the 'accessory' aka fake 24H wheel. The fit was so sloppy between the 12H wheel hub and 'accessory' 24H wheel hub that it would go in and out of mesh. The fix...made a bushing to go between the 12H wheel hub and 24H wheel hub out of a stainless steel spring bar tube...a seamless tube, some spring bars have a seam in them. Since the ss tube is riding between two brass wheel hubs with very little load on them there is virtually no wear at all. Third...it needed a new balance staff...I farmed it out. Total cost was around $8 (for the staff)...you have to know 'a guy'. Fourth...the bushings in the 17 jewel 1520 autowind assembly. I swapped them out for jewels. Long story as noted in the post above. Btw...the reverser pivots are .28mm in diameter when new so if anyone is buying used reversers be on the lookout for worn reverser pivots, it is a common ailment with the rlx cal 15xx if not cleaned/oiled once in a while. They might be Ok down to .26mm or so but not much smaller. The oem jewel hole id is .30mm. So...what did I learn? 1...The quickie GMT conversion works Ok ONLY IF you use a genuine rlx 15xx GMT center wheel, canon pinion and hour wheel. Also...if the 24H wheel is a sloppy fit on the 12H wheel hub it will probably need a bushing of some sort. 2...You have to use a genuine GMT calendar spacer ring or space the dial away from the movement a hair to clear all the date works/extra 24H wheel etc. I used dial strips since the dial feet would not fit the 1570 anyway and the strips provided the extra space. A dial washer was used to supply a slight downward force on the 24H wheel to keep it seated. There was enough room between the 24H wheel and dial to allow it to rise up and get out of mesh...the reason why a dial washer was used. 3...I have used a Seitz jeweling tool for years and was Ok with it. Things did not go too well with it this time around because of two things: A...The broaches that came with it have a taper that is too steep (making it easy to cut too much) so the task of slightly enlarging the holes in the autowind plates for jewels became a real hassle. B...I decided to press the jewels into the autowind plates with a staking tool rather than the Seitz tool. Why? More choices in tool sizes etc. The Seitz tool did save the day when it came to installing the hands though. The oem spec 24H hand would stick when starting it on the 24H 'accessory' wheel hub, then slide down against the dial before I could let pressure off of the hand pusher tool. This was a real hassle because you have to remove the dial and push the 24H wheel hub out of the 24H hand from the front side of the dial because there is no room to get a hand remover between the dial and 24H hand with the hand pushed down against the dial. Remember it has dial strips, not screws. Hellofamess. I used the Seitz jeweling tool to press the hands down because it has a micrometer adjustment that allows only so much travel at a time. All the hassle goes away when you can start the 24H hand, then press it down 1/10mm or less at a time. Same for 12H and min hands because most GMT hand stacks leave very little room for error. Also, the plastic hand mounting pushers from my Horotech hand tool also fit the Seitz tool...a lucky break. I still have a rlx 1575 with genuine GMT parts to c/o/assemble for a Phong '1655' case I've had for 10 or 12 years. I'll write the ins and outs of this project when and if it is ever in progress. Progress. Ha! Regress would a better term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted March 19, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2021 3-19-21 Next to last round on the '1655' project... Yesterday I finally decided to put the second hand on the watch. Why is this a big deal? I've been putting it off because the movement is already in the case and there was no way to brace the sweep second pinion so the SS hand could be pressed on. If you try to press the SS hand on with the movement in the case, the SS tension spring will just flex down and the SS pinion drops down when you try to press the SS hand on. The autowind assembly is not mounted on the mvt yet. I have a movement holder made for rlx cal 15xx with a screw in the center that can be screwed against the SS pinion to allow the SS hand to be pressed on...but it will not work with the movement in the case. I gave this a little thought and came up with a hairbrained idea that turned out pretty good. I figured maybe an aluminum case press cup that would go down in the case and sit on the outer edge of the movement could be threaded to allow a screw to turn down against the SS pinion. Did I have such a crystal press cup? Yep, found one in a cheapo crystal press. It had a cup just the right size and it was already threaded in the center to screw down onto the press frame. Btw it was 5/16 NC thread, not metric. (??) Anyway, I turned the end of a short 5/16 Allen head bolt down to a small 4mm tip about 6mm long then rounded and polished the end like the screw in the movement holder. It worked just fine...not the way these brainstorms usually turn out. The final and last round will be putting a crystal on it. No more '1655' fiasco comments are planned unless something goes horribly wrong. Might comment on how the 'road test' turns out after a month or two. Can't decide if I am finally finished with this thing or gave up at this point. 5-5-21 A few notes... This thing has been running 24/7 for about two months now with no problems. The date still hangs half way in the window when it flips but it is always centered in the date window the next morning so it is Ok as far as I am concerned because it's not worth the hassle to r/r the hands and dial to find out what is going on. I've seen a few 1575 do this and if the date wheel is not rubbing the dial, it is usually all right to just let it go and there is no sign of the DW rubbing the dial on this one. I changed the high mileage 1520 a/w assembly mentioned above out for a 1570 signed a/w assembly in very good condition and the watch keeps good time and has a long running reserve. If it is put on a Bergeon 'Final Test' winder for 3 or 4 hours it will run for 35-40 hours so it must be Ok. The watch is still running after winding it Monday evening and now it is early Wednesday afternoon so that's pretty good. Note on the Bergeon 'Final Test' watch winder... I've had this one since the early to mid 1990s and have had no trouble with it. It will wind up to six watches at a time but two is all I usually run at a time and always put a watch opposite the one being wound to help balance it out. It is a Europe model made for 220/240V and came with a voltage adapter that is unplugged when not in use. A new Bergeon is $769+/- now and China look-alikes are $37.30 on eBay with free shipping. The only thing that worries me at all is that the shortcut conversion minute wheel no longer runs on a post pressed into the main plate but runs on a .5mm axle pressed into the minute wheel with the little 24 hour drive wheel mounted on top of the minute wheel. I greased the axle with KT-22 so it should go for a long time before it needs attention. If the axle does wear the hole in the main plate out of round, it looked like there was room to put a bushing in the hole. Since the main spring arbor runs in the bare main plate with no bushing or jewel (with a lot more pressure on it) maybe this will be Ok. Otoh the minute wheel axle is a lot smaller than the MS arbor so time will tell. A lot of older movements had MS arbors running in the plate without a jewel or bushing for 50 or 60 years so it was a common practice before high beat (28,800 etc) movements came out with MS barrels that made more revolutions per day. They were c/o every 5 or 8 years and the MS arbors were greased or oiled with D5 or something similar. Btw...the only time there is much pressure on the minute wheel is when setting the time. During normal running there is hardly any stress on it at all. My guess is it will go for quite a few years. 7-2-2021 There is a rough 1570/75 'shortcut' GMT movement for sale on eBay, first one I have seen but there may have been more. eBay item number: 203506883965 Image: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/k9YAAOSwznVgx9dt/s-l1600.jpg Note: My 'shortcut GMT conversion' 1655 is still running Ok on 7-2-21, keeping good time with good reserve and the date still sticks half way in the window for a few hours after changing but it is centered the next morning so I will leave it alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted March 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2021 Added 3-27-21: From: Where to get a case to fit a Yuki 3135 - The Rolex Area - RWG Question: "I have a Yuki 3135 movement in good shape and I'm entertaining the idea of building a watch around it." "In particular I keep seeing that a 3135-style movement will not fit into a case intended for a 2824 or similar ETA movement, which is what most of the stock out there apparently is geared towards." There are basically two variations of 36mm DJ type cases floating around: 1...Common cases made for swiss ETA 2836 and 2836 etaclones and/or various china DG/NN etc '21 jewel' movements. Because these movements started out as day/date movements, they are a little bit thicker than a 2824 date movement and the stem will be closer to the back of the case because of the thickness of the extra day of the week parts. 2...Cases made for swiss ETA 2824 and 2824 etaclones. They may be a little bit thinner overall than a 2836 case or they may be the same thickness as a 2836 case with the difference in movement thickness allowed for in the way they are machined inside the case. The newer 36mm DJ and DJ 41 cases may be made differently depending on the movement or they all might be the same. This goes for submariner type cases too except many DJ and submariners now come with 3135 clones so the Yuki 3135 may fit. I never had a watch with a 3135 clone, most of my projects used swiss ETAs. Successful projects that is. The problem is these cases are not always made to oem spec (or any spec) and there will be variations in cases made for the same movement...shallow reflector (aka 'rehaut') vs taller reflector, movement not centered in the case same as oem etc. For this reason there is really no set rule on what case will accept the Yuki 3135 clone. It is discouraging but that's the way it is...the replica world is basically 'Out Of Spec'. Ha! About all I have done is tell you what the pitfalls are so now maybe a member who has put a watch together using the Yuki 3135 will chime in with a few tips. 'More or Less Rules'... A case made for a 3135 will usually accept a 2824. May need a movement spacer. A case made for a 3035 will usually accept a 2836. May need a movement spacer. A case made for a 3135 will accept a rlx 15xx no date mvt. Without the calendar wheel spacer. A case made for a 3035 will accept a standard rlx 15xx date mvt. Rlx 15xx no date mvt will work if a calendar spacer is used but it will need a 15xx date center wheel, CP, and hour wheel or the hands may be too close to the dial. 'Hit or Miss Rules'... If you want to use a rlx 15xx date mvt without the date parts in a case made for a rlx 15xx date movement (MBK 5512/13 for example), you can get by with the standard date center wheel, CP, and hour wheel. You need to leave the calendar spacer on the mvt without the date works. If you use a rlx 15xx date movement in a case made for an ETA 2824 or rlx 15xx no date movement, you can remove the calendar spacer and all the date works and use it as/is in submariner cases because the hands setting high will not matter too much and the crystal should be high enough to clear the SS hand. On a '1016' etc it will not look right and the SS hand may rub the crystal. All rlx 15xx, 30xx, and 31xx are 12.5 ligne size in diameter (about 28.2mm) and an ETA 28xx is 11.5 ligne size (about 26mm) so if the case is a 'dedicated' ETA 28xx case it may not accept a rlx movement. The mm sizes are not exact but very close. Enlarging the inside of a case made for an ETA 28xx will not need much cutting because the difference only amounts to about 1.5mm +/- and this equals only a .75mm cut. 'More or Less Rules' come with a No Money Back Guarantee. Same goes for 'Hit or Miss Rules'. Question: "Can you put a clone or GEN 3xxx series movement in a 4-digit GEN case?" Only a few will fit. For example a 3035 with OPD dial will work fine in a 1500 case made for a 1570 date but a 3135 with OPD dial will not fit because it is thinner and the stem will not line up in the case tube. A four digit 16xx DJ is a mess because of the 'pie pan' dial and a flat dial (1016 etc) will work in some projects but I never tried it. The movement mounts a hair higher in a DJ 16xx case because of the 'pie pan' dial so a flat dial and 15xx without date works and calendar spacer might work. There is quite a bit of difference in the 3035 and 3135...as a rule of thumb the 3035 is the same size as a 15xx date mvt but the 3035 and 15xx date movements are thicker than a 3135 and will not fit properly in a case made for a 3135. Otoh...my first '1016' project used a no date rlx 15xx mvt without the calendar spacer in a 162xx case...this is the reverse of your question but it shows another possibility. Everything fits, movement, 1016 dial etc. Since no one makes a 3035 clone afaik we are stuck with genuine 3135/3135 clones and ETAs for other than '21 jewel' projects. What is needed is a pair of high quality automatic movements, one 19800 or 21600 bph with rlx 15xx dial foot holes and hand sizes and one 28800 bph with 3035/3135 dial foot holes and hand sizes. All 3035 and 3135 hands and dials will interchange up through the 36mm DJ etc but the bigger cases, DJ 41 etc use a movement spacer and the date is offset farther to the outside. It's a moving target. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted March 29, 2021 Report Share Posted March 29, 2021 @automatico I am constantly amazed by your depth of knowledge and how willing you are to share it here. We are all better off because of your tireless efforts to spread the good news about Rolex custom projects. Keep up the good work mate! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted April 4, 2021 Report Share Posted April 4, 2021 Well done, automatico. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted October 20, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2021 "Keep up the good work mate!" "Well done, automatico." Thank You! The watch is still running fine and I am wearing it now. 10-19-2021 Facts and figures... I measured the 'shortcut' case and compared it to my J&W com case from 10 years ago: Cartel case: Total thickness 14.75mm. Mid case thickness measured at 9 o'clock: 4.8mm. Bezel OD: 37.4mm. Case width across 8 to 2: 39.3mm. Case back OD: 35.55mm. Has 383xxxx (approx 1974/75) fair serial number etc, laser etched. Case made for Miyota clone GMT, ETA 2836 with GMT mod, or rolex 1565/1575 GMT. Needs case spacer with Miyota clone or ETA 2836 'GMT', not with rolex 15xx. Very good fit. Cartel dial is a little bit larger OD than oem. An oem size dial is a hair too small for the dial opening. J&W com case: Total thickness: 13.9mm. Mid case thickness measured at 9 o'clock: 5.2mm. Bezel OD: 37.35mm. Case width across 8 to 2: 38.3mm. Case back OD: 35.9mm. Has 342xxxx (approx 1973) serial number, very good letters/numbers. Case made for rolex 1565/1575 GMT. No spacer needed. Very good fit. Accepts original dial. Top quality. There could be a minor mistake or two in the measurements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted March 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 From... 3-10-2022 I have some 'obsolete' 55xx cases from a few different suppliers and here are the suppliers and approximate dates purchased...DW (2011), MBK (2012), Yuki (2009 and 2012), IG44 (2012), and JKF (2017). The best for the $$ in descending order when I bought them imho are Yuki, IG44, MBK, DW, JKF and all except JKF are no longer selling watches or cases. Never had a Vietnam case that I know of. Yuki?? Maybe yes, maybe no. They had to be ordered with a 4 to 6 week delay and I never heard where they came from. All these cases have a few flaws and the Yuki cases (5512, 5513) are probably the best of all the cases I have. Members have reported problems with earlier Yuki cases but mine are fine. DW cases are pretty good and all are 1680 spec inside and this means they need a 26.5mm dial and either a rlx 1525, 1565, 1575 date movement or ETA 2836/46 type movement. The case sides are slightly rounded and not flat like OEM but this is good if you want the watch to look polished/aged. The engraving/stamping ranges from very good engraving to ratty engraving to laser etching to none at all. Case backs also come with two thread diameters (one OEM spec, one smaller) but this is Ok unless you want to exchange case backs. The case necks are a hair too small on all my DW cases so this must be an across the board defect/problem. You just have to dig through aftmkt crystals until you find one that fits. They also have 'spring wire' rotating bezels so you will need a bezel kit (crystal clamp ring, tension shim, rotating bezel, bezel insert), I used Clark kits. MBK cases were the 'cheapo choice' for higher grade projects but they have almost disappeared from the scene, probably because no one wants to sell theirs as replacing them with something of equivalent quality is expensive now. There is a LOT of info about them on the forum. OEM crystals and case tubes fit fine, at least all of mine did. All my MBK cases are made for a rlx 1525, 1565, 1575 date movement or ETA 2836/46 type movement and all are made for 26.0mm dials. You can make a good 5512/13 but the stem has to be centered in the case tube when using a rolex 15xx movement by using a date movement without the date works. There is enough metal to enlarge the dial opening to accept a 26.5mm dial for a 1680 project. You can find the ins and outs about all this on the rlx forum. Yuki cases were the top of the line starting out because they were just about all there was at the time besides 'Phong' (Jewelry & Watch) and his cases were much higher $$. Yuki 55xx cases had case tube thread problems starting out and this really did a lot of harm to their brand but they made improvements and sold them for a few years with very few complaints. I traded into an early '1680' Yuki case and it was fine but some buyers had problems. IG44 had fine dials and very good cases but their offerings were limited because IG44 could be hard to get in touch with. I have a '1680' case and it is very good but I have not seen one for sale in years although you might see a dial now and then. JKF cases are fine for ETA/Miyota clone projects imho but it seems some sellers are not selling 'genuine' JKF watches. Who knows? My JKF case is Ok but the lug holes are a bit too high on the lugs and this is not good when the holes are enlarged to accept OEM spec spring bars. It is on spec for crystals and case tubes. If you get an actual JKF case, they are a bargain in today's market. Things to look for imho: 1...OEM spec case neck and case tube threads. Hard to tell until you get the case though. 2...Holes in lugs with room above and below so the holes will not be too close to an edge if they need to be enlarged. This is hit or miss because the watch or case you get may not match the one in pictures. 3...A groove machined inside the case for case screws and/or case clamps. 4...Crown location not too high or low. This does not bother me very much but it shows. 'Repexperts' will spot it every time. 'Genuine Rolexperts' probably not. If any of this bothers you...wear a long sleeve shirt. Ha! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted April 18, 2022 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2022 4-18-22 I decided to list a few various GMT hand hole sizes because of all the hassles I have had trying to match them up. No guarantees because there might be an error..or three. No sizes listed for a 24H hand on the Seiko because they do not offer a GMT model that I could find. The 24H hands on an ETA 2893-2 are listed at 1.8mm and 2.50mm. Might be depending on the watch brand? The 24H hands on an ETA 2836-2 with Asian non adj GMT conversions can vary but mine are 1.8mm. Accurate aftmkt hands for a 1655 with rlx 1575 GMT movement are very hard to find. For example, WSO has them but they are silvertone where the genuine hands are white and the lume slots are too wide and too long. Their '1655' hand set for an ETA 28xx is much more accurate but still the wrong color. Btw, I have some nos genuine 1655 hands and the 24H hand arrow is RED, not orange. ?? My 'shortcut 1655' has a very good WatchLume hand set but they are out of production. After chasing these 'lost cause vintage projects' for many years, I would advise anyone without a bankruptcy wish to go with a cartel 1675 or 1655 and detail it best they can. For movements, I vote for ETA 2836-2 or slower beat 2846 with Asian non-adj 24H mod first and the DG 3804 next. I have a GMT and exp II with DG 3804 and they have been Ok for 8 or 9 years but they probably only have about 6 months running time on each one. For a high $$ late model GMT project...maybe go with an ETA 2893-2 GMT but they cost $300/$400 now. Or...you could greatly simplify it all with a 5512/5513 ETA 2846/2879 project. No 24H hand, no date, no major problems, no major $$. Otoh, my 'shortcut 1655' is still running fine and I am pleasantly surprised. DG 3804 clone ETA 2893 – Horology student (horology-student.org) Rolex 15xx GMT 24H 1.9mm 12H 1.2mm Min .80mm SS .20mm with long tube ETA 28XX 24H 1.80mm Asian mod 12H 1.50mm Min .90 SS .25 ETA 2893-2 24H 1.80mm 2.50mm ?? 12H 1.50mm Min .90 SS .25 DG 3804 etc 24H 1.95mm 12H 1.5mm Min .90/.95mm SS .20mm +/- Seiko NH35 H 1.50mm M .90mm SS .21mm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madasboot Posted April 19, 2022 Report Share Posted April 19, 2022 23 hours ago, automatico said: No guarantees because there might be an error..or three. Hey R. Not to worry… nothing a good ‘ole set of cutting broaches cannot correct… ahah i am lucky since raffles is distanced some blocks away from my place so hands galore. I also bought an horotec set of broaches plus a swiss hand tool and fear no evil… best, M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted April 21, 2022 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2022 "i am lucky since raffles is distanced some blocks away from my place so hands galore." Raffles is good to deal with and I sent a note to them a few days ago looking for a set of 1655 hands to fit a rolex 1575GMT movement and they replied they do not stock them so I am keeping a lookout on eBay for someone to offer an improved set of aftmkt hands. I have a set of ETA 2836 '1655' type hands coming from WSO and even if they do not fit the rlx movement, they have closer to correct lume slots. I remember someone mentioning there were some omega hands that look like 1655 hands but I do not remember what model they were for and they probably would not fit a rlx movement anyway. "I also bought an horotec set of broaches plus a swiss hand tool and fear no evil…" I have a set but have broken so many that I use needles with 3 or 4 flats ground on them most of the time. I have ETA needles, rlx needles, omega needles, DG needles etc. Ha! One problem when broaching H and M hands is if you need to remove the center hub to enlarge a hand, then the hand tends to flop to one side, especially thin hands. Fitting hands, glossy black dials, and hairsprings are huge aggravations imho. It's not much of a mystery why quartz watches outsell mechanicals 1000 to 1. It is because they are so easy to fix... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted August 14, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2022 From a post in the Rolex Area 8-13-22 so it will not get buried. List prices from February 1, 1973 in USD. My comments are in ( ) 1002s Stainless Steel 26 Jewel Chronometer movement, leather strap...$225 1002sg Same as above with 14K bezel and crown...$270 1002g Same as above with 14K gold case, leather strap...$460 1016s SS case, 26 Jewel Chronometer movement, leather strap...$240 1019s Steel Milgauss, 26 Jewel anti-magnetic Chronometer movement, leather strap......$225 5500s SS case, 17 Jewel movement, leather strap...$170 (17 jewel movements in the list are not chronometer rated) 5501sg Same as above with 14K fluted bezel and gold crown...$220 5512s SS case, 26 Jewel Chronometer movement, leather strap, WR 200 meters...$268.50 With B207 bracelet...$285 5513s SS case, 17 Jewel movement, leather strap, WR 200 meters...$208.50 With B207 bracelet...$225 6263s 'Daytona Chronograph' in stainless steel Oyster case, white dial with black sub-dials, screw down push buttons, tachometer engraving on black bezel, leather strap...$325 With B206 bracelet...$341.50 6264g 'Daytona Chronograph' in 14K yellow gold, black dial with gold sub-dials or gold dial with black sub-dials, tachometer engraving on gold bezel, leather strap...$575 6265s 'Daytona Chronograph' in stainless steel Oyster case, white dial with black sub-dials, screw down push buttons, tachometer engraving on stainless steel bezel, leather strap...$325 With B206 bracelet...$341.50 7002gf Gold filled case (not Oyster) with 17 jewel movement on leather strap...$185 (used for many presentation/award watches) 1500s Steel Oyster Perpetual Date, 30 jewel Chronometer movement, leather strap...$270 (the 30 jewel number includes jewels in the calendar works) 1500sg Steel Oyster Perpetual Date with 14K bezel and crown, 30 jewel Chronometer movement, leather strap...$310 March 1, 1975 list prices: 1601sg Oyster Perpetual Datejust, steel case, 30 jewel chronometer movement, 14K white gold bezel, leather strap...$535 1601sg Same as above with 14K yellow gold fluted bezel, gold crown, with steel/14K gold ref 313 Jubilee bracelet...$775 1603s Stainless steel Datejust with ref 218 Jubilee bracelet...$435 1611g Same as above with 18K yellow gold case with fluted bezel, Jubilee bracelet...$3000 1625g Datejust with 'Thunderbird' bezel in 18K gold with ref GFM 109 Jubilee bracelet...$2980 1625g With ref 8386 hidden clasp bracelet...$3130 1655s Steel Explorer II with GMT hand and 24 hour marked steel bezel, Oyster bracelet...$455 1675s Steel GMT Master with 24 hour hand and revolving 24 hour marked bezel, Oyster bracelet...$450 1019s Steel Milgauss anti-magnetic 26 jewel automatic Chronometer...$370 (Strap or bracelet not specified.) 1803 Day Date 30 jewel chronometer in 18K yellow gold with ref 7286 18K President bracelet with regular clasp...$3150 1803 In 18K yellow gold with hidden clasp ref 8385 President bracelet...$3300 1803 in 18K white gold with ref 8385 bracelet with hidden clasp...$3550 1804 In 18K white gold with diamond bezel and ref 8385 bracelet...$5240 Same watch above in platinum...Price upon request. 8385 18K President bracelet with hidden clasp...$1850 7286 18K President bracelet with regular clasp...$1700 GFM 109 18K gold Jubilee bracelet for Datejust...$1600 8386 Same bracelet as above with hidden clasp...$1750 14K 19MM bracelet for Gent's Oyster Perpetual Date, similar to GFM 109...$975 Steel and 14K yellow gold Jubilee bracelet for steel and gold Lady Oyster Perpetual models...$225 (No price on Gents steel/gold Jubilee bracelet but price difference in a steel/14K DJ 1601sg on leather strap and same watch with steel/14K Jubilee is $240) (Prices had gone up a little in two years...the 1500 OPD is now $405 but this includes a Jubilee bracelet and the 5500 AK with ref 206 steel Oyster bracelet is $260) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugop Posted August 30, 2022 Report Share Posted August 30, 2022 @automatico I think the Omega hands you are thinking of is the skywalk we X33. I might even have a set here somewhere that I can measure. I’ll check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted August 30, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2022 Thanks! The 1570 rlx hour hand hole is 1.20mm and the minute hand is .80mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugop Posted August 30, 2022 Report Share Posted August 30, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted August 30, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2022 Rats! The hole sizes are too big to be closed down, especially the hour hand. The profiles are close though. They do look a lot better than the aftmkt replacement hands such as WSO 990 because theirs are silver and the lume starts too close to the holes. Thanks again! WSO hands... STEVE MCQUEEN WATCH HAND FOR VINTAGE 40MM ROLEX EXPLORER II ORANGE 1655 WATCH | eBay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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