What's the DEAL on Reporting Reps on eBay?

[fraggle42]

Hell of a hobby my friend.

I've been designing software tools for incident response these last few years (I'm a scatter brained creative) and I have to say, you white hats could rule the world if you wanted to...

Cheers!

 

You are assuming they don't already....

 

I think it's all too easy to stop most of the world and make huge sums of money if you were illegally inclined, armed raid on MS datacentre, wrap the "Your HDD is now encrypted, pay us $1,000,000 to decrypt it" virus in a fake MS update, inject it into the MS OS "update" system (correctly signed), it's be in that many systems before people even realised what was going on.

 

Ok, any half decent organisation has their local WSUS server and allows a period before releasing new updates to it, just to see if they break/kill anything, and offline backups, but one has to wonder just how many PCs in government, DARPA, NATO, NASA, etc, are incorrectly configured and will fall prey to this - and of course the virus could happily upload all the documents it finds as it encrypts them.

 

I do wonder when (not if) this will happen and am quite glad I jacked in IT Management & support at our little place to go back to programming full time.

[aajaxx007]

Fraggle, I'm calling you the next time my computer breaks...

On the real, most of the companies we do incident response for have been breeched in excess of 365 days before data exfiltration happens.

As Fraggle says, we're talking Fortune 100 and government orgs here.

And on that note, my apologies, I've hijacked the thread officially.

[folex]

Superlative, i do not know what is wrong or right with you. But let me answer be simple:

We are attempting to reduce fraudulent activities.

1. Purchasing a replica is not illegal.

2. Using a replica isnt illegal

But scamming others or fraudulent activity is not only frowned upon by society because of its immorality but it is also illegal.

It isnt to self justify or create self righteousness, but simply to aid in correcting what is wrong.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Legend]

In all seriousness;

Why do people report reps being sold as gens on eBay? The rep market is based on ripping off the designs of the gen makers (no denying this fact). Why get in such a huff over somebody trying to sell a rep as a gen? Does it make you justify your rep purchase so that your conscience doesn't bother you? I'm sure a lot of you tell your friends or acquaintances or strangers, "sure, it's a gen!" Perhaps the buyer of a rep on eBay should inform himself of the watches authenticity. Also, eBay and PayPal have policies to protect the buyer. Why make it your modus operandi?

Call it Thieves' Honor.

 

Yes you are correct. The replica industry is built on stealing the designs and ideas of big brand watches and selling them at a very attractive fraction of the price the genuine watches command. I cannot, nor would I dispute this fact.

 

I would like to believe, however, that people like us purchase the watches knowing that they are rep, for our own enjoyment. The vast majority of us do not attempt to pass them off as genuine watches, to profiteer off them, or to scam the naive or oblivious. Succintly put, we buy reps because we enjoy them personally, not to cheat anyone else with them.

 

Our passion and love for reps should not mean that we should abet the wrongdoing of someone trying to sell a replica as an authentic brand watch. We should instead use our knowledge and expertise to prevent others from being victimized, whether out of ignorance, naivete or even foolishness. I sincerely feel that the motivation for reporting these replica watch listings to eBay has nothing to do with guilt, redemption or nobility, but simple goodwill. We may enjoy our rep watches, but we should not hide in the closet and snicker each time we see a replica watch being sold at a horrendously staggering price which it should not command. We should use our resources and what we know, to help make the world a slightly better place, because of our knowledge, intentions, and actions.

 

I am sure you know of top notch hackers being employed as system testers by the authorities, and the best counterfeiters being consulted by the government concerning their bailiwick. Who better to call out a replica watch than the serious rep hobbyist? To me, having good knowledge about reps and being able to share and use that knowledge is a good thing.

 

I humbly end my rambling with this: We may wear replica watches at times, but our fellowship, knowledge, skills and heart are all as genuine as could be. Let us put them to good use instead of tucking them away. Let us be proud of what we can do as a community, and let us never stop doing them. 

 

   

[pcardoza]

I look at it this way.......    I have a GEN BCE and could probably afford another 1 or 2 moderately priced GENs before I started to become concerned about the spending.   However, I now have 7 REPs, including a couple that would be way out of reach for me.   I would NEVER have even considered buying that many GENs, so I don't for a minute feel like I'm taking potential revenue away from the manufacturers.    

 

However, if I'm looking to spend $5k - $10k on a GEN, I don't want to have to wring my hands over the deal, wondering if it's real or not.   Somebody trying to eBay a rep as a gen, is 100% a thief.   That will do nothing but create more attention on the rep world, which obviously isn't good for our hobby........

[fraggle42]

I can't speak for others, but before I discovered the fact that high quality reps existed, about 1.5 years ago, I would never have spent more than a couple of hundred £ on a watch, and had maybe one or two.

 

I've now spent over £6k on various gens, the same again on reps and so the gen industry has profited from me by £6k they would not have if reps had not existed.

 

 

And to add another viewpoint to the legality aspect of it, yes, technically myself buying a rep is, at some point along the line, causing laws to be broken (copyright and trademark theft, shipping illegal goods, importing illegal goods), and selling a rep as a gen is breaking those laws plus defrauding the (innocent) end buyer, selling illegal goods, and maybe more.

 

So they are both "wrong" / illegal (I can only definitively speak for the UK), but if you consider the fact that if each part of each offense went to court, the sentences for each part would vary, thus implies that each part has a severity, and I do not think there is any doubt that defrauding an innocent person of many thousands of £ or $ is a much more severe offence than buying (for ones own use) and owning a rep (knowing full well it is a rep).

[AKTime]

The way I see it, Reps of watches like the 5517, 6542, some 1675 versions, etc.. are no longer even in production. The cost of owning an original is so absurdly out of my price range that me owning a replica of said watches is not taking a dime out of Rolex corps wallet. To me it's akin to building a Shelby Cobra kit car.

[Change]

The way I see it, Reps of watches like the 5517, 6542, some 1675 versions, etc.. are no longer even in production. The cost of owning an original is so absurdly out of my price range that me owning a replica of said watches is not taking a dime out of Rolex corps wallet. To me it's akin to building a Shelby Cobra kit car.

That's a great analogy.

[droptopman]

Interesting topic.  I strongly agree that those in the know should protect and help those who don't.  Seems like that is what this forum is all about and how it came about. 

I actually bought a "Rolex Submariner" about 15 years ago on eBay that was a well done rep.  It was described and sold as gen and I paid gen money for it and did not find out it was not a gen until I took it to an AD.  I had a friend of mine check it out on the bay before I bought it and he thought it was a gen.  He is a watch guy but not nearly as knowledgeable as many on this forum, so he could not tell.   

So was it my fault I bought a fake watch for gen money?  To some degree yes, but I did research on the watch, checked the seller out, and had someone who is an "expert" check it out before buying it, but still got duped.  The point is that even those who take the time to do research and utilize resources to make more informed decisions can fall victim to being scammed.  

Like if I see some guy beating up his girlfriend should I just ignore it and move on or should I take some action to right the wrong.........

[nlnlnlnene]

1) scamming seems like a wrong thing to do. Taking advantage of gullible people in this way seems wrong.

2) it's a lot of fun to call out people, whether it's on forums or eBay. It's also fun to identify reps from small differences. It's a bit of a game, trying to determine authenticity of some good fake watches.

[automatico]

I know how I would feel if I got scammed on a watch so I help anyone I can. I do not try to get fakes taken down on eBay but have spotted a few fakes/F-steins at trade shows etc.

The truth is I am not good enough on dials and case shapes to spot many of the better fakes on the internet but I can usually tell about the movement so that is where I try to help. I seriously doubt I could tell a well worn Yuki 5513 case from an original but I can tell when a 1560 is hiding under a 1570 autowind assembly etc. Matter of fact, I got stuck on one of those combos a couple years ago on eBay but did not complain because the price was fair and I doubt the seller knew what it was.

 

I saw this on vrf today and they claim it is a fake case...eBay item number 291126883209

I have a Phong 1655 case and it looks good to me so I am out of the game as far as 1655 cases go.

The eBay case does have a 'long E' in ROLEX inside the case back though.

...rolexperts claim the 'long E' is baaad medicine. 

[superlative]

All due respect, but I have to disagree.  It's not illegal to purchase reps, at least not in the USA. 

 

All due respect, you, and whomever else agrees with you, have absolutely no clue about the laws in the USA.

 

http://www.stopfakes.gov/right-holder/fake-imports-entering-us

[Mendota Explorer]

OK, enough with the politeness. What is your point and why are you here then? All you are doing now is stirring the pot.

Plenty of members have eloquently responded to your post. What more are you trolling for?

[GBOGH]

Don't you know, all rep watch hobbyist are internet policeman. That duty comes included with the secret handshake.

[aajaxx007]

Who wants to guess what group the OP works for?

Curious questions sir, the industry argument against replica collecting is based around the swindling of good intentioned customers.

You can imagine the wrinkle lines when rep collectors use their free time to warn others of said fraud...

My friend, you want it to be one way, but it's the other way.

Cheers

[lukenorris2011]

You know what, with all the shutting down of well know rep dealers sites, and a lot of newbies asking so many questions ( i know Ive only been here a few years myself ) I sometimes wonder how many people working for organisations/branded companies are really lurking around here, rwi etc....

I mean , if you wasn't a active forum member, you wouldn't know about a lot of the TD's we have. Let's face it, if you type in "rep Rolex" on google you will hardly find PT/trusty, just aload of scamming b****ards!!!

Life's a [censored], then you marry one!

Edited April 25, 2014 by lukenorris2011

[Vegasvic]

The way I see it, Reps of watches like the 5517, 6542, some 1675 versions, etc.. are no longer even in production. The cost of owning an original is so absurdly out of my price range that me owning a replica of said watches is not taking a dime out of Rolex corps wallet. To me it's akin to building a Shelby Cobra kit car.

+1

 

And nothing wrong with buying a kit car either.  It WOULD be wrong to sell the kit car as the real thing obviously, but a lot easier to discover that immediately, unless you were dumb enough to buy that on eBay or CL, haha!

[Mendota Explorer]

I use the classic, vintage auto analogy all the time with my personal viewpoint on reps.  I am fascinated with the vintage pieces and Frankens.  In my opinion, building a piece that you have searched and hunted for parts, maybe used a base watch and worked around it, or literally went from the ground up with individual gen and gen-spec parts is really paying tribute to these great time pieces and paying respect to the design and history around the watch.  It's for fun and personal enjoyment.  

 

The same holds true with classic cars.  There are guys who assemble what are essentially gen cars by using gen parts, re-manufactured or aftermarket parts, or even kits. In the end, they have a fantastic and beautiful automobile.  If anyone sees them pull up in the car, the response is always "wow, what an amazing car" and the guys are always excited as hell to tell you all about the build.  Nobody ever craps on their Wheeties and bashes them for building a kit or Franken.  It's just like our Frankens and vintage watches.  Engage a member here about their build and they will happily tell you about the build process and labor of love that went into it.  I think the general response is the same as the car - "Wow, beautiful watch.  You built that?"

 

With modern pieces, I honestly use them as long term test drives for the gens I want.  I have been extremely selective with the modern reps I have purchased and it is specifically because I want (and will purchase) the gen.  Using the rep has allowed me to develop a feeling for the watch with my lifestyle and determine if it is a good fit or not.  You absolutely cannot do that with holding and trying the watch on at the AD for 10 minutes or a half hour.

 

I have not taken any business away from Rolex in any way, shape or form when it comes to the modern pieces.  On the contrary, because I purchased and long term test drove the reps I will purchase the gen versions of those reps.