Movement help please

[Brucy]

Hi there, should have left the damn cover on the back!!! Was originally just going to see the movement... Assuming its a DG28??? Then I decided to remove the crown and stem, then big mits here tried to put it back and hey presto doesn't work now... Clearly and indication for more fiddling!

Many thanks for the help

[ceejay]

You are really going to dig yourself deep in it if you attempt to reset the keyless on a 2813.

Be prepared to weigh the cost of a new movement against the cost of getting it reset, their probably won't be much difference unless you have a friend who knows what they're doing.

 

Good luck.

[HaydenM]

You've fouled the keyless works, I haven't worked on a DG28 but from what I have read it is a horrible movement to deal with. If you have the tools maybe give it a try to fix it, worst case you destroy a cheap movement, if not, the movement generally sell for not too much on the bay.

[mymanmatt]

Try pressing the pin down slightly as you install the stem. If you already have the stem in, press slightly on the release pin and it should start. Those movements new are around $20.

[automatico]

Look at the stem to see if it has a gradually tapered section behind the square part. If it does, this means it was designed to be pushed slowly into the movement without pressing the detent button.

Try it a few times and see what happens...sometimes it will catch and be Ok.

Something else I have seen a few times is a stem cut too short and it will not lock into place after being removed. If you want to check for this, unscrew the stem a half turn in the crown and try it. If it locks, remove it and cement the stem in place with Super Glue etc.

Note:

Sometimes unscrewing the stem in the crown will cause the crown threads to strip or strip the 'clutch' in screw down crowns. If the stem is too tight to remove and you heat the stem with a flame, the heat runs up the stem into the crown and melts the gasket.

 

I absolutely hate to work on these things but sometimes I do.  

[Bc1221]

some 2813's need a little force to pop in. 

the 2 high beat 2813s i have almost feel like they wont go in unless i push a little.

then it just pops in. 

try turning and pushing.

 

also make sure the stem hole is lined up pretty straight with the tube.

i noticed on some of these, the stem will sometimes not go in completely if its not straight.

 

i highly doubt you mucked the keyless up. its pretty freakin hard to do on these movements unless you took a needle point and pushed the stem release as deep as itll go.

[Brucy]

Dang!

Ok so take the red pill and delve deeper into the movement with my trusty Swiss Army knife and mess it up even more which is not a problem as it's messed up anyway... I like the suggestion of unscrewing the crown a little automatico as it gets to a point where the hands wind backwards jumpily when pulled out to the first notch which may suggest it's not engaging properly or maybe HaydenM your are absolutely right the keyless works are stuffed

or take the green pill and buy a new 2813 or DG38? Then face the wrath of removing the hands and dial which I've never done but could be a first and again trying to shove the stem into the movement

Two equally attractive options!

I am still in awe of the many good forum members here who are so adapt at this

A blue pill option would be nice but it's not gonna happen

So into the rabbit hole I go.... Will let you know how I get on when I can convince my better half the necessity of why I have to spend lots of time on this very important project!

[Bc1221]

its not hopeless yet man.

i did this once and thought i was screwed. almost ordered another movement and everything.

the stem would not completely set. it was stuck in time setting position and made a horrible sound. i thought it was done.

decided to take it out and start taking the parts off it. i tried the stem one more time after the movement was out to turn the hands to 12 and it popped right in!

 

take the movement out and try to pop the stem in outside the case.

if it works there, then it was just not aligned properly.

 

dont give up yet and def dont go deeper and start ripping parts off.

 

when you put the stem in, just get it in a little, then turn, push in a little, then turn. just kinda tinker around and it will probably work.

[Brucy]

Awesome! Will give it a go

Cheers

BC1221

[kbh]

I agree with BC1221. Sometimes that works. But I find it a lot easier just to loosen the movement in the case by removing the movement tabs. Then you can get the wiggle room to make sure the stem is properly aligned without getting your dirty fingers all over everything

[Guest mikemcnair]

I would suggest rebuilding the keyless, or rather resetting the keyless, and if you look on Rwg.biz, under "froggy Junior", and my screen name you will find a good write up that I did eons ago of rebuilding this keyless. It is very simple and if you take your time you can have it done within a half hour to 45 minutes, and everything will work just as planned

[Brucy]

Roll on the weekend some tinkering ahead, that is brilliant guys, great advice and it's raining here so indoors

[Brucy]

Thanks for the info guys, taken the movement out, done the wiggly thang and now I reckon it's time to follow the steps of MikeM's keyless reset....better get a movement holder before I launch into this as a ball of blue tack is currently providing all options

[ceejay]

A word of advice, get a decent size clear bag to put your hands and the movement inside until you know the calendar jumper spring (it's a tiny 'U' shaped piece of wire) is safe. 99% of the times I have done this operation the spring lets loose and you won't even hear it hit the floor it's so light. It will save you hours on your hands and knees

 

Good luck!

[Guest mikemcnair]

Excellent suggestion! Zip Lock have rule for this purpose!

Brucey, I was unable to fine the old link I was referring to, but will keep looking for you.

[automatico]

The U shaped calendar spring goes in after the plate is installed...it goes in through the cutout in the plate. Be sure to put it back in the same way it came out as iirc one end of the spring is longer.

[kbh]

You might as well just go ahead and order a couple of spares today.

[JoeyB]

A word of advice, get a decent size clear bag to put your hands and the movement inside until you know the calendar jumper spring (it's a tiny 'U' shaped piece of wire) is safe. 99% of the times I have done this operation the spring lets loose and you won't even hear it hit the floor it's so light. It will save you hours on your hands and knees

 

Good luck!

That spring can travel at speeds breaking the sound barrier. I've heard it, but never found it afterward! 

 

 

automatico  Posted Today, 09:00 AM

The U shaped calendar spring goes in after the plate is installed...it goes in through the cutout in the plate. Be sure to put it back in the same way it came out as iirc one end of the spring is longer.

I use a piece of Scotch tape to hold the u-shaped spring and be able to see through to install it in the slot. Line it up, slide it in off the tape. If you miss, it doesn't fly away. 

[Brucy]

Excellent suggestion! Zip Lock have rule for this purpose!

Brucey, I was unable to fine the old link I was referring to, but will keep looking for you.

No worries

[Brucy]

Excellent idea with the scotch tape

[preacher62]

You might as well just go ahead and order a couple of spares today.

 

+100

[Bc1221]

I looked at one of my dead 2813s and honestly, it's virtually impossible to disengage the keyless works on these.

There is like a fail safe plate that goes over the stem release portion. I even took a toothpick and pushed it as far as I could. Stem still popped in afterwards no problem.

Not sure what you broke but I'm pretty sure it's not the keyless.

Order a few from oferi. The shipping costs as much as another movement so you may as well get a few.

Good luck.

[ceejay]

If you look at your picture what has happened is the little bridge that goes across the horizontal gear has been pushed out of the groove in that gear. The keyless does not have to be taken apart to fix it. Just gently lift the little bridge and slide the gear back into its groove. Job done.

Sent from my toilet using Andrex.

[Bc1221]

in my picture?

theres nothing wrong with the keyless in that picture.

i can push the stem in and start winding.

its a movement i took apart after breaking the second hand pinion while removing hands.

 

i just posted it to show that its virtually impossible to mess up the keyless on a 2813 by pushing the stem release button.

there is a plate that puts opposing force on the plate that releases the stem.

 

i literally pushed the button until it went way past the releasing point.

keyless stayed in tact.

[Guest mikemcnair]

If you look at your picture what has happened is the little bridge (THE HACKING YOKE JUMPER) that goes across the horizontal (CASTLE/CLUTCH MECHANISM) gear has been pushed out of the groove in that gear. The keyless does not have to be taken apart to fix it. Just gently lift the little bridge and slide the gear back into its groove. Job done.

Sent from my toilet using Andrex.

Agreed, and added a few terms if you need to search for a DIY on a horology site. Also, you can SUPER easily modify the yoke to eliminate the hacking function. If one were so inclined.