Vintage 1016 - Dome or Bevel?

[dieselpower]

Some of you may know I'm starting a 1016 build. Nothing new there. I bought a JMB caseset then rather fancied a domed glass so he's made me a new bezel so I can fit a domed T21 to the case. Not only do I prefer domed glasses but I also presumed that the domed glass was period correct for an early 1960's 1016. 

 

Then I saw this photo of a 1964 1016:

 

 

Clearly a bevel edged glass.

 

Now, as I understand it the Tropic 21 domed glass is 0.5mm smaller in diameter than the Tropic 22 bevel edged glass. Also I thought that the glass on a gen 1960's 1016 was a Tropic 21. Ergo the T22 would not fit. So, if the above photo is correct - what's the story? Can anybody clear this conundrum up?

[tomhorn]

I can't clear the conundrum up, but there is another thread going on that did.

 

As for preferences, I hate the domed look, so I went with a service T-22 on mine, which was built using a gen 16014 case.

 

 

I'm also not using a domed T-21 on my 6265 build ....

 

Edited November 10, 2014 by tomhorn

[blue.]

Domed or not.

In my eyes the pro and cons (visually).

 

Domed crystal Tropic 21

Pro:

-would give a nice and special reflection on the outer edge of the glass in certain lighting conditions

-the soft edges would magnify a bit more the dials indices, strokes. Elongating them a bit in certain viewing angles. Is also considered as a positive special result.

 

Con:

-dial and overall appearance of the watch is much bulkier. Dial appears smaller than it really is.

Not so elegant crystal parameters with that fat dome

 

 

 

Modern service crystal Tropic 22

Pro

-clear vision of the dial in as good as all viewing angles. Almost no distortions.

-the minimal dome gives some special reflections in certain viewing angles

-more precise, thin appearance corresponding to the Explorer style

 

Con

-the precise bevelled edge is easy damaged/scratched if not that carefull when worn.

The domed crystal too, but as the edge is soft it can be polished better.

 

 

My first 1016 (an MBW) had a domed crystal, then I built a JMB based 1016 with the modern service crystal.

Both watches side by side looked quite different in the overall size appearance. I got some comments that the MBW is smaller than the JMB based 1016.

 

Then I decided to upgrade the MBW with a gen spec bezel and crystal. So to say a service Tropic 22 and the J bezel.

The MBW case has gen spec sizes for the crystal so a Tropic 22 fit in pretty well.

 

Here are the results (from this thread):

 

 

Side by side (on the back a similar to Tropic 21 crystal)

 

Then after the upgrade of the MBW with a service Tropic 22

 

 

The decision is yours.

At the end you may build two 1016 one with a Tropic 21 and another a bit more modern with a Tropic 22 

 

[dieselpower]

Thanks for the input chaps. I'm still none the wiser. I personally prefer the domed glass and that's what I'm going with. That's not the question. I was just curious as to what Rolex did in the first place. Anybody know?

[ogladio]

I've never heard anything else than that 1016's were fitted with domed tropic 22 crystals all the way up until the late 80s when the flatter service T22 took over. I thought tropic 21's were for Daytonas...

[mymanmatt]

21's are for daytonas and explorer

[ww12345]

I'm pretty sure T22 is the standard Explorer crystal - I don't think they ever came with T21. I bet LHOOQ could confirm for us though...

[freddy333]

Thanks for the input chaps. I'm still none the wiser. I personally prefer the domed glass and that's what I'm going with. That's not the question. I was just curious as to what Rolex did in the first place. Anybody know?

The originals came with domed xtals. However, the watch went in for service in the past 20 or so years, it came out with a beveled service xtal. Point being that either is correct & which you use depends on your preference & bank account.

[ogladio]

21's are for daytonas and explorer

Matt, could you clarify what you mean with explorer?

Most reference lists I see note this:

TROPIC 21: 1018, 5504, 5503-5505, 6230-6238, 6239, 6240, 6241, 6262, 6263, 6264, 6265, 6269, 6298, 6424, 6425

TROPIC 22: 1016, 5518, 6150, 6350, 6352, 6353, 6610

[dieselpower]

The originals came with domed xtals. However, the watch went in for service in the past 20 or so years, it came out with a beveled service xtal. Point being that either is correct & which you use depends on your preference & bank account.

 

OK. So. This makes sense but doesn't account for the difference in size of the xtals. I don't know (obviously) but I'd hazard a guess that the original domed xtal was a domed version of the T22 (larger) one which they don't make anymore and the nearest thing in looks is the T21 domed which is is close but still 0.5mm smaller and therefore never intended for use on an explorer. However, fitting one with the custom made JMB bezel is probably not something which would be noticeable to the naked eye. Come to think of it this guesswork holds water because my watchsmith who looks after my wife's gen semi bubbleback c.1952 explained that the watch should have a domed xtal (indeed it did have many years ago when I bought it) but it has now been swapped out for a bevel edge (I bet it's a T22) because the domed glass is no longer available.

 

Clear as mud? Hope so.

[freddy333]

Diesel - If the xtal fits (& looks correct on) your case, I would not worry about it being 1mm plus or minus spec. No one (other than an RSC, which will easily ID most frankens & all reps upon presentation) is going to mic your xtal to call you out that.

[automatico]

My 'official' rolex parts list shows all 1016 to have 25-22 tropic crystals. The 1018 has a 25-21 tropic with thinner side wall along with a bezel with a smaller inside diameter. The 1018 uses the same smooth bezel as a DJ.

All the number 22 crystals I have owned were flat tops but I have seen older 1016 watches with domed 22 crystals...at least they did not have sharp edges like a modern 22.

 

All 1016 had 6.0mm crowns and 25-22 tropic crystals rated to 100M.

All 1018 had 5.3mm crowns and 25-21 tropic crystals rated to 50M.

All 1019 Milgauss had 5.3mm crowns and 25-32 tropic crystals rated to 100M.

The 1016 has a round section case back gasket 31.7 x 1.0mm.

The 1018 has a flat section case back gasket...same gasket as an OPD 1500...29.2 x .75mm thick. You would think it would have the same (30.2 x .86mm thick) flat section case back gasket as a 1600 both being 36mm but nooooo.

The 1019 Mg has the same case back gasket as a 5513...32.5mm x 1.0mm.

.

[dieselpower]

Thanks automatico. Very useful info., looks like my theory about the existence of domed T22's could be right. I think we can put this topic to bed now with the conclusion that: All 1016's were fitted with Tropic 22 xtals. Some early T22's were domed in profile but are no longer available. To replicate this look on a rep 1016 you must use a custom made bezel that takes a T21 domed glass OR use some of that metal filler stuff (!) that rolojack used to fill the gap that exists if you try to use a T21 xtal inside a T22 bezel as the T21 is 0.5mm smaller in diameter than the T22.

[lhooq]

Thanks automatico. Very useful info., looks like my theory about the existence of domed T22's could be right. I think we can put this topic to bed now with the conclusion that: All 1016's were fitted with Tropic 22 xtals. Some early T22's were domed in profile but are no longer available. To replicate this look on a rep 1016 you must use a custom made bezel that takes a T21 domed glass OR use some of that metal filler stuff (!) that rolojack used to fill the gap that exists if you try to use a T21 xtal inside a T22 bezel as the T21 is 0.5mm smaller in diameter than the T22.

 

Sorry I'm late to this thread!  Your summary is correct.  What's not so clear to me is when the switch from domed to beveled Tropic 22s happened.  I think the move away from domes took place in the late 1970s for the Daytona's T21, but I believe the domed T22 lasted for much longer.  I've read about L-Series 1016s being sold with domed crystals; that's at the end of the 1980s! 

 

As to the reason for the T22's extra thickness?  I think it speaks to the Explorer's rugged character, and how it generally lives a harder life than the prissy, effete Daytona. 

[dieselpower]

"Prissy, effete Daytona" outrageous, sir! Not to mention sacrelligious. Mr. Newman will be turning in his grave!

[jmb]

I wonder if the Clark T22 would have enough "meat" on the edge to round it off without weakening it?  I may try it on a cracked one I have...

[dieselpower]

I must admit I was wondering such a thing myself. FYI the watchsmith who works on my wife's gen (which I am assuming has a T22) has done exactly that and it's been fine, he was (again an assumption) using a gen xtal to start with. The results are not as good as a T21 dome but not a bad effort. Good luck J!

 

Michael.

[lhooq]

I wonder if the Clark T22 would have enough "meat" on the edge to round it off without weakening it?  I may try it on a cracked one I have...

 

Someone has done this recently.  It's killing me how I can't remember who it is, but there've been so many 1016 builds in this past year. 

[droptopman]

I love the look of the gen T25-21 dome on mine. Based on what I have read on this thread, my gen bezel must be from a 1018 or DJ?  Regardless I would not change a thing on my build, other than if I find a gen dial at some point for a decent price.

I learn something everyday on this forum

Good luck with the build dieselpower  

[automatico]

The first 1016s had domed crystals so Himalayan mountain goats could not bite them off.