Euphoricall78 Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 I thought I would ask the advice from my fellow RWG colleagues here regarding the recent purchase of a gen 18238 head from one of our members here. This is the original sales thread: http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/176898-genuine-rolex-president-day-date-reduced-18kt-gold-18238-quick-set-with-diamond-bezel-and-box-set/ I knew the watch head was not in the greatest condition cosmetically, but since we came to an agreed negotiated price I was willing to take the plunge since this would have made a great present for my father inlaw. Upon receiving the watch few days ago I brought the watch to my watchsmith to inspect the watch and maybe do a complete service overhaul and a polish. Upon inspecting it and removing the crappy aftermarket goldplated bracelet, he noticed the serial # at 6 oclock was taken off. Not from normal wear and tear or even removal of bracelet over the years, it was clearly and deliberately polished off. It did not occur to me how serious this was until my watchsmith questioned why I had even purchased this piece. He directed me to some TRF posts that explain why the polishing off the serial #'s of gen rolex pieces can't be good and why. http://www.rolexforu...ead.php?t=24869 http://www.rolexforu...ad.php?t=166911 This was not disclosed upon sale, but maybe it was my fault for not asking for this particular info either since i'm new to the rolex world. Also, knowing that his father had just passed and I was buying the seller here who has a very good feeedback, it did not cross my mind. Since I was buying a gen 18238, not a franken or a mashup of gen parts, I would expect everything to be intact since this was coming with box/papers afterall. However, papers serial # mean nothing without those numbers intact on the actual caseset. After getting in contact with potential buyers here who are also on TRF, one specifically told me the serial # issue was disclosed to them stating that it was worn and wouldn't come out in a photo. So obviously the seller knew about it. I contacted Mark regarding this issue and he told me he did not know about it, which I find a bit shoddy. So basically, I'm stuck with a watch which I paid north of $4k which I cannot give to my father inlaw knowing this watch might be stolen and can never be serviced at RSC. Or, the seller does the right thing and take this watch back for a full refund. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euphoricall78 Posted May 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Mark, I am posting this here now in the public forum since you left our conversation via PM stating "Whatever I'm finished talking now hope you have years of fun with the watch good-bye" I was more than willing to look past the caseback condition and the missing strap that was never shipped with the watch. However, I don't think you know the severity of a missing serial # which was deliberately removed. I am being honest and upfront as much as I can about this like a genteman. However, if you think I'm being unreasonable then why don't we let the RWG members here decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam007 Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 I love this forum but I would never ever buy a gen from here. You must ask yourself... why would someone sell a gen rolex on a Replica Forum? Replica Forums are a dumping grounds for fakes and frankens and most sellers are selling pieces to move onto gens or other projects. This means that if you are unhappy with your purchase, the money is already gone or spent. There are many legitimate venues to buy a Gen. TRF (The Rolex Forum), VRM (Vintage Rolex Market), HQMilton (Jacek, Awesome guy to deal with), 10PastTen (Eric Ku, who is also the owner of VRF) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beachcomber Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 He said, she said...Why did this leave the PM? Come on guys, can't you settle this? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam007 Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Personally watching the market, I've seen my fair share of gens with missing serials and they sell usually for 50% under the market value, if at all. I personally believe that this information should have been transparent during the sale of the watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezio Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Guys get a admin on this and work it out Even though my opinion is this seems really shady Thegrail ?? You Should have told about it as dont Think Anyone Would buy a watch with a missing serial shaven off ??? And this behavior about how you talk to people and being a ***** i seen it before rude answers to alot of people But again get this with a admin and work it out But i Think a refund is due not believing the Whole Thing about it looks worse Then it was before because Well i cant see Anything other Then i seen on the sale topics pictures But we are gentleman here on this forum so lets not swing attacks out so work it out either with a admin and get on 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezio Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 I've already offered him to send it back, now I'm having second thoughts as he's airing everything In public, there's no more I can do. Dont have Second thoughts accept a return and get a refund the both of you are happy Then no money lost or Anything and lets have a admin close this thread or remove it The buyer Should not go this route before a admin have had a chance to do it i try my best being a middle man of you two since there aint a admin online it seems Will send you both a pm In a minute Lets get this settled and work it out as gentlemans and Shake hands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
508-Fanatic Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Guys just work it out - you should've reached out to a mod in private first Euphorical....actually, first off you should never have bought a watch with missing serials that is a "gen" let alone shaved off... foolish... If you couldn't see it in the pics or it couldn't be accurately described, run away... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marrickvilleboy Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 This was a bad deal... You know its a bad deal when the original seller discounts the piece significantly....also I agree with Pam007, you should avoid buying a "genuine" on a replica forum. I hope you work this out but that watch, with serials removed, will be tough to hold value in the future. Alternatively, you can send it to Phong to have the serials "re-engraved" lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike on a bike Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Guys I was contacted prior and suggested to send it back get refund no harm done . If grail willing to take back (well there are no serial numbers and it was not disclosed ) again no harm done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Thanks Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemballa Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 I always knew that something was rotten in Denmark! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezio Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 I always knew that something was rotten in Denmark! What is rotten in Denmark ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemballa Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Hamlet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemballa Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Its a line from Shakespeare's Hamlet meaning something smells fishy. Sorry to hear you've been lumbered with this but I will always stick to my guns with the old adage 'if it seems too good to be true then it probably is'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezio Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Its a line from Shakespeare's Hamlet meaning something smells fishy. Sorry to hear you've been lumbered with this but I will always stick to my guns with the old adage 'if it seems too good to be true then it probably is'. Haha Busted in not Being too Much of a poetry guy I just try to help the two guys out as there were both some mistakes from Them both and just reminded Them this was a gentlemans place and tried to be the middle man in a refund/return Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemballa Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Good man. Could have easily been either one of us as I see you were interested too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneP Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 I have so much to say but I wouldn't. You guys should just work it out...it didn't ve go come to this. Lets be civil & if you ain't gonna say something to help the matter, STFU !! :-) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukenorris2011 Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 I have so much to say but I wouldn't. You guys should just work it out...it didn't ve go come to this. Lets be civil & if you ain't gonna say something to help the matter, STFU !! :-) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk X2 A lot to personally comment myself Moab has already suggested the way to move forward- lets get the refund done. And lesson learned. End of story- Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 The watch was sold as a gen and as such, I would expect it to be a full-fledged gen which could be serviced by RSC, if I were the buyer. Benefit of doubt should be given to seller that he did not know about the missing serial number or the severity of the omission. I doubt that either seller or buyer was trying to scam the other. Guys, it's not a matter which needs to be aired here. PM and get it resolved, you both are more than capable of such in terms of intelligence, reason, and integrity. Sent from Mars using tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prdubis Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Why the serial number has been removed? Where does the watch come from? Seller should be able to answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euphoricall78 Posted May 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 First, I would like to apologize to Mark in bringing this matter to public, and also to Mike from admin for jumping the gun and coming to public on the matter. I guess emotions got to me from the last PM the seller sent which are sometimes hard to decipher when things are read via txt/pm/etc. I would also like to address some of those who frown upon buying gens on forums such as RWG as I have bought gens from great respectable members here and the other fora. I have been around the forums long enough (both gen and rep) and greatful to have met become friends with a few of you, and this is a great place for watch enthusiasts. There is nothing wrong with buying a gen here as long as you're honest and disclose everything. We will both work this out regarding the refund and returning the watch back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beachcomber Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 First, I would like to apologize to Mark in bringing this matter to public, and also to Mike from admin for jumping the gun and coming to public on the matter. I guess emotions got to me from the last PM the seller sent which are sometimes hard to decipher when things are read via txt/pm/etc. I would also like to address some of those who frown upon buying gens on forums such as RWG as I have bought gens from great respectable members here and the other fora. I have been around the forums long enough (both gen and rep) and greatful to have met become friends with a few of you, and this is a great place for watch enthusiasts. There is nothing wrong with buying a gen here as long as you're honest and disclose everything. We will both work this out regarding the refund and returning the watch back.here here! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 I'm happy that you guys are going to work this out in a gentlemanly manner (and I don't mean pistols at 20 paces!!) i did go back and read the original sales thread and looked at the photos. Here is my take on this in retrospect, and might help someone else in the future not get involved with a dispute like this. First off, i don't think the seller did a very good job with the photos, especially selling a very expensive watch. Second, I don't really think the buyer did his due diligence. I have been buying and selling genuine Rolex watches in a very small way for about 40 years. mostly selling something to buy something else. During that time, I have boughrt a lot of used watches, many were before the internet made transactions so easy or in some cases so difficult. I always asked the seller for good clear photos, including a photo of the lug ends so that I could see the engraving and serial number. If the watch is selling w/o papers, the serial is only important to date the watch, but also to make sure the serial # is pertinent to the years of production. Had the buyer asked to see the lug ends with the serial # as well as the other side with the model number, this whole thread would have never happened. Also had the seller posted good quality photos of the lug ends, this "He said, He said" about the buyer doing further work on the serial side would all be moot. Everyone could see what the watch looked like before it was sold.Because with genuine Rolex watches an intact serial number is so important, it is a must see before buying, period. Serial numbers are obliterated for several reasons, none of which are aboveboard. Grey market watches often have serial numbers removed, however these are OK watches,just can't be sent back to a RSC. The second reason amd far more serious are stolen watches.Problem is if they are removed, it's impossible to really tell if the watch was sold "grey market" or stolen. No serial also renders the papers worthless, the punched paper could be from any watch of that model ever produced. The serials are removed, just as serials #'s are removed on firearms, to eliminate tracability. In both of these cases, RSC will not under any circumstances work on these watches. Because of this as folks stated above, the market for a watch with destroyed serial numbers sells at a terribly steep discount, even if you can find a buyer.Also, delinberately removed serial numbers are not like serial numbers that wear off due to age. this is a watch made in 1995, it's 20 years old. the serial numbers would still be easily readible unless removed for a reason. So Guys lesson well learned, better photos of everything, and if they don't meet your requirements as a buyer, PM or email the seller and ask for more or cleared. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike on a bike Posted May 22, 2015 Report Share Posted May 22, 2015 OK the guys worked it out and I will await confirmation of final monetary agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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