Jensen has problems

[hanski]

10 minutes ago, hologramet said:

Actually. JKF Snowflake case has a caseback which I 100% good. All you need is case reshape, lug engraving, case reshape, Vietnam bezel assembly and Athaya crown+tube

I will look into it - I enjoy reshaping cases and assembling watches myself. 

 

12 minutes ago, hologramet said:

lug engraving

I've been struggling to figure out how to have this done. Can you recommend members/places for this? 

13 minutes ago, hologramet said:

Vietnam bezel assembly

Phong or Jensen? Or someone else? 

[hologramet]

7 hours ago, mzinski said:

I will look into it - I enjoy reshaping cases and assembling watches myself. 

 

I've been struggling to figure out how to have this done. Can you recommend members/places for this? 

Phong or Jensen? Or someone else? 

Case engraving?

Check with Neckyzips or Rolojack

 

Everything Phong can supply www.rubyswatch.com can. Cheaper.

[prdubis]

We all agree that Phong is overpriced, but if it is as easy as we think to source parts, reshape cases, engrave them, why he's the only one to provide such great quality parts?

 

[hologramet]

58 minutes ago, prdubis said:

We all agree that Phong is overpriced, but if it is as easy as we think to source parts, reshape cases, engrave them, why he's the only one to provide such great quality parts?

 

Good question..

I would rather buy a Vietnam-case and have Rolojack reshape it.

[Sogeha]

I think that we have people who we can call on for each part of the process to end up with a case as good as phong’s Best more consistently and a little cheaper. It takes patience. Phong has been sued in the past and now Jensen is being sued. While I have been happy to deal with them I always thought basing such a business in the USA was asking for trouble, perhaps other suppliers are very wise not to provide a one stop service. I would love to find more suppliers of these cases, or better yet a contact to the maker/s

[prdubis]

I don't know where to source these parts...Do you?

[hologramet]

35 minutes ago, prdubis said:

I don't know where to source these parts...Do you?

Ruby

The raw-raw-raw cases is one level higher in the Food chain.

 

Since they can custom-make and use same shop as MQ.

 

I'm sure you can order raw cases. Haven't tried though.

[LifeTrekker]

So when phong or others reshape and rework a raw case, are they basically just creating the appearance of age in a convincing manner, or are they doing more than that?

Personally, I'd like to learn to do this myself, but I'm sure it takes practice, just like any other art or skill.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[hologramet]

1 hour ago, LifeTrekker said:

So when phong or others reshape and rework a raw case, are they basically just creating the appearance of age in a convincing manner, or are they doing more than that?

Personally, I'd like to learn to do this myself, but I'm sure it takes practice, just like any other art or skill.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

They are better/worse at doing what the case workers in the 60s-70s were doing also by hand.

 

In other words, they are creating gen-like lines/curvature/details that the more bulky CNC'd/forged case doesn't/"can't" have.

 

No one knows for 100% sure, but past events indicate that the process above is quite close to reality.

[RickFlorida]

20 hours ago, automatico said:

"That is what happens when you sell modified cheap Vietnam parts, in the US, using one of the most hardcore privately owned watch brands in the world.

I know a lot of you guys loved him.  But all he did was reshape."

 

My guess is you hit the nail on the head.

I have said from day one that the difference between a $50 replica case and a $1500 replica case is a few (maybe more than just a few) hours of reshaping/detaining.  As long as the basics are correct (or can be made correct)...lug hole location, case neck, case back configuration, thread size etc, an expert in detailing with the proper tools can make them 'almost real'.

 

 

"When I asked him for a quote on a 6263 18K YG case it was >10000 EUR."

"When I asked why the big difference compared to the SS one, he said work was more complicated."

 

Yeah, that's like the sucker game where platinum watches are 50% to 100% more that 18k gold.  You ask why and they tell you it is because platinum is 'hard to work with'.  Using the same twisted logic, stainless steel would be 'the new platinum'.

8-20-18...plat spot  $793.90/troz

gold...$1186.80\troz

Plat is a little bit heavier but not that much.

Otoh 18k gold is diluted 25% but I never heard that excuse.

You are partially incorrect about why platinum cost more than gold (when used in jewelry).  Platinum is 60% heavier than gold.   So if you need a wedding band that is 6mm wide, to make the same wedding band in platinum will take a lot more precious metal in weight to make the same dimensions of the ring if it were gold.    The common jewelry sales person doesn't really understand this.    Also, you can use cheap alloys to make gold jewelry like copper and silver.  Platinum jewelry can only alloy with irridium or palladium.   There is a truth to working with platinum being a pain in the ass.  But it's mostly that you can't contaminate it with anything else.  So Platinum jewelry work requires an entire set of dedicated tools.   (Normally, we can use the same tools for gold or silver, but if you get a tiny particle of gold, silver, or copper on platinum, it will show up as a blemish when polishing.     

[Timelord]

On 21 August 2018 at 4:28 PM, hologramet said:

When I asked him for a quote on a 6263 18K YG case it was >10000 EUR.

When I asked why the big difference compared to the SS one, he said work was more complicated.

When I said that work should be simpler since YG is easier to mold and work with than SS, he said "take it or leave it".

 

Remove about 1500 EUR for the YG.

Remove about 15000 EUR for a regular SS case.

 

>7000 EUR was his profit compared to a SS one.

He obviously was using the same trend as the official rolex company do with their gold pieces .  

 

You take the gold model and the stainless steel model of either a date just or a submariner and you will find that the amount of "gold" (well strictly 75% of the precious metal really) is overflated at least 7 times.  If a gold model was just over double in value of a stainless steel model, then this would already be more than the profit that most watch brand companies charge  as a premium.  Being harder to work with for  a watch company using robots doesn't sell with me!   Yeah  like it takes one year to make one rolex with the number of pieces displayed at every AD would mean that the entire population of Netherlands would  be employed at rolex.  Pull the other one it has bells on it!  LOL!,

[automatico]

"You are partially incorrect about why platinum cost more than gold (when used in jewelry).  Platinum is 60% heavier than gold."

 

 

One cubic inch of platinum weighs 351.5 grams.

One cubic inch of 24k gold weighs 316.6 grams.

18k gold is approximately .73 times as heavy as platinum.  One cubic inch weighs approx. 256 grams. 

14k gold is approximately .6 times as heavy as platinum.  One cubic inch weighs approx. 210.6 grams. 

10k gold is approximately .54 times as heavy as platinum.  One cubic inch weighs approx. 189.5 grams. 

Low karat gold jewelry with identical dimensions would be close to the 60% figure.

 

 

"There is a truth to working with platinum being a pain in the ass.  But it's mostly that you can't contaminate it with anything else.  So Platinum jewelry work requires an entire set of dedicated tools.  (Normally, we can use the same tools for gold or silver, but if you get a tiny particle of gold, silver, or copper on platinum, it will show up as a blemish when polishing."   

 

I am aware of this but there is no welding involved in stamping out/machining watch cases and very little involved (if any) in making bracelets today at the manufacturing level...maybe welding case tubes in cases, latches on clasps etc.

 

 

"Being harder to work with for  a watch company using robots doesn't sell with me!"

 

Me neither. 

 

 

"Yeah, like it takes one year to make one rolex."

 

Maybe...but there is a rolex buyer born every minute.

I just can't understand how they keep up.  

 

[horologist]

13 hours ago, RickFlorida said:

Also, you can use cheap alloys to make gold jewelry like copper and silver.  Platinum jewelry can only alloy with irridium or palladium.   

Not entirely correct!  Platinum also bonds with Ruthenium which is one of the main ingredients used for the platinum electrodes and catalysts.  We used it in the physics department,

 

the only value I like about platinum is that it is like a non corrosive ( but very expensive )stainless steel where the hardness and color to me is better than gold!  However having said this, the downside to platinum and also titanium is that it galls!  Threads will cold weld if not properly lubricated and if you have a platinum day date which will not open because of welded threads, you are up for another USD20,000 for a new case when your original case will need to be cut open at service time

10 hours ago, automatico said:

Maybe...but there is a rolex buyer born every minute.

I just can't understand how they keep up.  

 

They always said that some people have more money than cents ( I mean sense)

[JSebWC]

Yah I think we all know how this is going to play out for him.....Like him or hate him...it always sucks when we lose a trusted source for our hobby.

 

It would be interesting to know how many "vintage watch dealers" that "used his services" will be impacted by him shutting down.

I truly think that he does also cater to that side of the fence as well and since he knows the dealers are selling these "potentially franken " watches at such high prices 

he maintains his healthy margins and tells us cheapo hobbyists to take it or leave it. 

 

 

[cheld]

JSeb you bring up an interesting point - I wonder if Jensen will plea bargain and flip to take down the Franken dealers on criminal charges.  Perhaps the authorities are poring over Jensen's invoices to see where he sold "Highest quality professionally refinished" DRSD dials to Joe's Jewelry & Pawn....

 

[automatico]

"I truly think that he does also cater to that side of the fence as well and since he knows the dealers are selling these "potentially franken" watches at such high prices 

he maintains his healthy margins and tells us cheapo hobbyists to take it or leave it."

 

Me too. 

 

 

"It would be interesting to know how many "vintage watch dealers" that "used his services" will be impacted by him shutting down."

 

Very Good question.

 

I doubt many so called 'experts' could identify a top line replica case with genuine mvt, dial etc after it has been professionally aged and worn for a few years.  RWC might catch one if the case serial number was wrong.  Maybe not, they were made a long time ago.

If a 'Big Time Vintage Watch Dealer' ends up with an expensive watch with a case they are not 100% sure is genuine, it is easy to guess which side they will come down on.

 

"Buy the seller."  Ha!

'Screwed by the seller' is more like it when it comes to old rolex watches.   

[SuperDanX]

A lot of watch dealers follow him on Instagram so who knows!

[Sogeha]

If any dealers were buying and selling his parts as genuine, then that is not just disreputable, it is criminal. However if they were buying and having stuff mailed out direct to their premises and paying for them from their own accounts, without bouncing through an address in a Far East or Eastern European country that isn’t too co-operative with trademark laws, then that is criminally stupid. Anyone who gets caught has it coming, They all vilify us, so if they get caught doing something most of us wouldn’t get involved in, I have no sympathy 

[Timelord]

5 hours ago, Sogeha said:

 if they get caught doing something most of us wouldn’t get involved in, I have no sympathy 

Totally agree!!!!

 

This forum and the traders here usually make it clear to the best of their knowledge as to what is genuine and what is "not".  I see nothing wrong with that, as long as there is transparency between the buyer and seller!!!! Of course when dealing with any second hand items that have not come directly from the manufacturer, will always pose that shadow of doubt. Especially with todays technology, one can just about clone a Piccaso! 

 

From time to time, I have noticed a seller on ebay which some of us may know as a "friendly person" that lists his merchandise to what appears to be to the best of his knowledge as either genuine or not genuine !!!  This allows the buyer the potential to know what he is buying.  In all fairness there are times where you may have purchased something you thought was genuine and beyond reasonable doubt you still believe to be genuine and happen to trade with someone else as genuine, then this is an innocent act.  BUT if one knows otherwise and intentionally deceives, then when the cookie jar breaks, one has to face the consequences and pay the piper his fee without sympathy from nobody !!!

[cheld]

Phong's eBay listings now say:

 

 

This seller is currently away until Oct 12, 2018. If you make a purchase, there may be a delay in processing your order.