316L Posted August 12, 2007 Report Share Posted August 12, 2007 (edited) I don't know what to say. :cc_confused: a few minutes ago i got an information about this thread. until now i read the first and the last page. :close_tema: i will read the rest later. at the moment is the question for me, who is a trusted dealer with customer-friendly prices? e.g. sub. with eta 2836-2 Edited August 12, 2007 by 316L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlingIsMyGame Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 When a dealer sells you a "1:1" or "Perfect" watch with a "Synthetic Sapphire" crystal and a "Lemania" or "Asian ETA" movement, what are you actually getting? These are amongst the most common lies told by dealers. It's a war of escalation where one dealer mislabels something and then the others have to follow suite or else have a product that's perceived as inferior. Well, it's time, as a community, to stop the [censored]. We're here to stop people getting scammed, right? Yet we tolerate some lies because we assume people will realise the dealers are just using marketing language. Here's the truth: There is not a single replica available from any of our dealers with a Lemania movement. Asian ETA movements, as sold in the new generation of reps, are not ETA movements at all. There is simply no perfect 1:1 replica of a Rolex Sub. The term Synthetic Sapphire should mean real, lab-grown Sapphire as found in genuine Rolexes, Omegas and the likes, but in some dealers cases, they use it to mean Mineral Glass, as used by bloody Timex. I'd hate to have to ask every time I bought a watch if what they advertised was truthful or mere advertising, so please try to convince your friendly dealers (It's mostly Josh and Trusty, the most prolific sellers here, that use these lies with abandon) to stop bullshitting us. Using words like Ultimate or Best Ever is understandable, it's the usual hyperbole required to show your newer model is better than the last, but perfect and 1:1 mean something absolute. They're getting worse and it's time to stop. I'd love to hear your opinions on how we can deal with it, but we need to do something as just telling the dealers hasn't worked for me.. this is my first post. your bold accusations caused me to reply. what are you even going by? what is your proof? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 jesus, just read the entire thread and you have your proof. if you cant see the proof, then it might be time for some glasses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlingIsMyGame Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 first question before i even read any of this is have you had any bad experience with mentioned dealers before this crusade? If so, i don't want to read your biased garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted August 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 first question before i even read any of this is have you had any bad experience with mentioned dealers before this crusade? If so, i don't want to read your biased garbage. Wow, way to revive a seven-month old thread. Yes, all the accusations made in the first post have been proven time and time again to be true. It's not biased garbage, unfortunately. The fact that this is the longest thread in General Discussion, and possibly the most read thread on the forum, stands as a testament to its validity. Read the thread safe in the knowledge that truths do get outed, it's not all biased garbage and changes do happen because of it. Its some read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narikaa Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Hi my name's Rip Van Winkle and Ive been asleep for 100s of years Well I just saw a news programme showing Arabs and Jews killing each other Why is this? I know if I bothered to read about it all would probably become clear But I just thought someone could spoon feed me all the details instead . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Hi my name's Rip Van Winkle and Ive been asleep for 100s of years Well I just saw a news programme showing Arabs and Jews killing each other Why is this? I know if I bothered to read about it all would probably become clear But I just thought someone could spoon feed me all the details instead . Open wide, Reg.... http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?en...usalem&only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normanduke Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Do you really think gen items are that much better when they advertise? Does Breguet or Patek advertise that their watches have a tendency to break down more often than Seiko? Or that it will cost you $1,000 to walk in the door of the AD for any repair no matter how modest? And if you own them you know this is true. If you only bought from "truthful" people under the aforementioned definition you would be living in a shack which you built out of sticks and eating berries. I love this thread. It comes up every few months. Perhaps it would have some effect if we on the forum were the only buyers or we were such a large portion of the demand that they had to listen. And I take Neil's point, half the time dealers are taking the factory description. Unlike many here, I am satified with the status quo and focus more on having honest relationships with the dealers themselves who are trustworthy. And lest you forget the unwashed masses who believe all this stuff are subsidizing our habit. Someone has to overpay for stuff. You won't if you do your homework. I say this in jest but there is some truth to this. I don't think we should discount ourselves so easily. After all, just who are buying all of these reps ? The Chinese themselves ? Maybe so, but they would not be paying the high prices that we do. I certainly see no reps in the New England states, so they're not being sold here. And BTW, I would not put past them any "examples ' of banning. That would put the fear of G*d into the chickenshits who are terrified they won't be able to get their toys. I don't blame them. I feel the same way. This is what the forums are for....knowlege. We should face the facts, painful tho' they may be. Talking amongst ourselves here is a real asset. Not to be discounted. l Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r11co Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Guess we've to 'thank' slay for the resurrection of this thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 first question before i even read any of this is have you had any bad experience with mentioned dealers before this crusade? If so, i don't want to read your biased garbage. Bling may be the name of your game.......but making common sense is lost on you......! Who the hell are you to demand "proof"...........you ask Slay if he has had a bad experience......then tell him that if he has....you don't wan't to hear his "biased garbage"......talk about a closed mind....I think you've lost your mind.....it's quite apparent that you're going to be a considerable asset to this forum.......but only in the way a clown is to a circus....welcome to the forum......! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuel Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 (edited) Joshua has a banner of repgeek boards in his webpage. I think the signature of Slay is very informative and pictures the situation in a very few lines. Dont blame Joshua and Andrew, they are obviously doing what they are supossed to do! Selling at a profit...from we, the rich westerns. Savvy businessmen I would say! And they didnt went to collegue, i guess, but they do pretty well. They are constantly watching us spending money on bull s**t: ar coating, crown guards, lume jobs... They might think: these guys may be filthy rich or very fool! Lets raise prices a bit more.. And so the thing goes on until someone points out their tactic! Or just remember the story again. And what about innacuracies? We all are tired of telling dealers about it, but they seem to deliberately forget it. and they dont get tired of releasing new and improvement versions with...still defects. In the end you will end paying the price of a gen tissot or gen hamilton for a nice replica with still QC issues.... Remember...these watches are china made...so buy according. Edited August 13, 2007 by manuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmena Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Remember...these watches are china made...so buy according. I couldn't agree more with Manuel... I know there is an agreement to restrict access to certain models and even more, to sell them under a limit or the dealer will not be able to access watches from certain factories anymore. I have friends traveling to China and Thailand and prices of watches (same we have from dealers), pens, t-shirts, bags, etc are some times up to 10 times less. I can't imagine buying a teeshirt for 30$ when you have it for 3$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narikaa Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 I can't imagine buying a teeshirt for 30$ when you have it for 3$. Must have poor imaginative powers Take a trip down any western high street and watch it happen with virtually every purchase. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 (edited) I think a few things need to be cleared up here.....! 1. The items that are now being sold on these boards are far superior to what you will pick up in the street markets of China or Thailand........most of the stall items are very cheap pieces of s.h.i.t.......that dozens if not hundreds before you have poured over......scratched.....dusty and not in the best of condition......and yes some stuff...( especially things like clothing ) can be had for significantly less than you pay in the West....! 2 However when it comes to watches.....it's a different ball game........there's now much less of a divide between prices you see here and the prices you can buy on the board.....that's directly related ...believe it or not .....to the increasing standard of excellence that is being applied to these items......it's unequivocally true that today's $100 / $200 / $300 fake watch is significantly better than those of a year or two ago.....! 3. When it comes to pricing......you have to factor in a TCO....( Total Cost of Ownership ).......which must incorporate all the costs of YOU personally visiting Asia to acquire the items that YOU desire....air fares....hotel accomodation......taxi fares......sustenance whilst you are searching for YOUR object of desire.....plus all the hassle of having to wait and deal with Asian people as they try to rip you off.....if you are no good at negotiating...then you're heart is on their dinner plate. As an example.....let's look at MBK 16610 Submariner. Walk into MBK and you will pay 7250 baht for it......forget about what Leo says about negotiating....there is none unless you're buying in quantity......! 7250 baht = 226.56 @ today's rate. Now add the cost of your flight / hotel / taxis / food etc......( even if you are on holiday.....there's still a % that has to be taken into consideration ) In addition to the above......you also need to consider that you have a time limit set upon you.....with regard to the item you bought....e:g....you're flying into Bangkok for one day only......and know EXACTLY where to go to get your MBK 16610......so you get it......stay in your hotel overnight.....admire your 16610 lovingly......and fly on down to Phuket for the rest of your delightful Thailand holiday experience.....you're on Krabbi beach a weel later and you notice it isn;t working any more......and you're flying from Phuket back to LA......whatcha do......you can't just break into your intinerary and hopp back up to Bangkok and exchange it....( not that he will anyway )......so factor that into the equation....NO GUARANTEE.....! Now let's imagine that you haven't had a problem with the watch....and everything is going swimmingly......you fly into LAX and some down in the dumps Customs jerk decides to check you out....."s'cuse me Sir......did you buy that in the US......no.....oh well...as it's a Rolex.....I'm going to have to charge you the appropriate rate of duty"......ad infinitum.....! On the other hand you can simply hand over the money to your dealer....and let him worry about all the [censored]....save yourself a lot of hassle......and money......and have a guarantee into the bargain....! Edited August 13, 2007 by TTK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuel Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 (edited) I think we westerns are accustomed to low profits when it comes to sell something manufactured here. We cant expect the profits made in China! @Narikaa: In western high streets is different at all, keep in mind that if a good is 10x more expensive than its counterpart good is due because its a luxury good! When we westerns buy a product we expect the price has something to do with quality and manufacturing. That is called fair price. Its also serves as guideline. A shirt made of cotton cant cost the same as a shirt made of synthetic fibers, etc.. The average goods that come from Asia have different costs and thats good because we westerns can benefit from that, but I am sure we end paying 10x the manufacturing cost. That is called a good price. The western seller wouldnt get that profit margin if buying from western factories. Maybe we should diferenciate better the mean of "good price" and "fair price". Edited August 13, 2007 by manuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuel Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 (edited) On the other hand you can simply hand over the money to your dealer....and let him worry about all the [censored]....save yourself a lot of hassle......and money......and have a guarantee into the bargain....! Neil yes you are right, I have bought some mbw trough friends of mine travelling there, but still too much hassle..I think its easier to stick with a known dealer. how are you doing btw? You feel better? What about the issue concerning Joshua and Andrew? Edited August 13, 2007 by manuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmena Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Neil... first of all, hope you're doing better... seems to be None disagree that there are certain costs the dealer support, and that's the reason we can't expect prices from them like buying the thing directly. Being said that, this happens to all item you buy in the world, so you can't take in account that to buy a tropical fruit you have to think that you're saving the flight to Cuba and the hotel and staying costs... Also the dealer must obtain a profit. What I'm talking about is that we are paying 400 USD for watches some one else get for half of the price sometimes. And even worse, watches that are produced for 80 leave the factory to be sold for another 400. I started in this rep world as an aficionado) near three year a go, and nobody can tell me that the price increase is justified by the quality enhancement. Not at all... improving CG's in subs is the biggest improvement so far... ok, some dials are better and you can expect real ETA inside. But is not justifying doubling price. Going even further... we all know that cartel practices exists, we all know who are the dealers involved... not only W9 has a site for his own... some others also, but stay hidden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FasTTaP Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Neil yes you are right, I have bought some mbw trough friends of mine travelling there, but still too much hassle..I think its easier to stick with a known dealer. not to mention the small amount of holliday time we have, I'd rather spend an extra day in Pucket than crawl in a rep mall in Thailand, there's a lot of great thing to visit over there that sure beat such visits Hope you're doing ok now TTK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkdk Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Funny. I love dodeling about in mbk. But then again im not to keen on beaches (being half irish, the tan doesnt really work out for me). Bangkok is an amazing city. especially the soi ari area. i even considered moving there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 let me just make it clear, that i have no problem with a markup. its more than obvious that there has to be a significant markup, because as ttk mentioned, there is risks involved etc. it does not make sense to sell 10 watches for a 10$ markup when you might get one back that you have to replace and one gets snagged by customs. it just pisses me off when dealers like joshua and andrew start a cartel by fixing prices and trying to keep other dealers out of the game. it also pisses me off when they are mad at other dealers, because they offer watches at an affordable price (yet still with a big markup, which is okay). just remind yourselfes of the "lowball" offer, aimed at a certain dealers sale, who was only selling ONE particular watch. all of a sudden they started lowballing him on THAT particular watch for a "limited time only". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 less not we forget the fraud- movements not as advertised - movment shots just so happen to be missing from those layouts. These guys - freinds of mine, went from really reliable honest straight forward guys to pushing the envelope. Good business? - maybe- but, good consumers fight back. We are a closed group here, fish in a barrel - these guys do no marketing for our business, we funnel it to them. They need to respect that. They are trying to create a monopoloy in order to be greedy on profits. - no country in the world still thinks thats a good idea - an unregulated monopoly. why? cause with power comes corruption. 2 yrs ago, i would say no way josh would sell an asian as ETA. I just believe that in his character. Today? i have to check the photos everytime. Reality is - for the asia dealers- the are making $$ hand over ofist and i'm sure are living pretty high in the china pecking order. - Provide good service - get paid - great. Start defrauding and cooluding to jack up prices = greed. greed is NOT good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuel Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Please stop the cartel, your practices are no secret anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Please stop the cartel, your practices are no secret anymore. Ok. We were waiting until someone said 'please'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Bling may be the name of your game.......but making common sense is lost on you......! Who the hell are you to demand "proof"...........you ask Slay if he has had a bad experience......then tell him that if he has....you don't wan't to hear his "biased garbage"......talk about a closed mind....I think you've lost your mind.....it's quite apparent that you're going to be a considerable asset to this forum.......but only in the way a clown is to a circus....welcome to the forum......! Perhaps one of the afore-mentioned schills? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
316L Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 (edited) greed for profit! andrews + joshuas prices are going up. $188 up to 218 eta sub. $188 up to 218 eta sub. lv (joshua $188 up to 248) http://www.perfectclones88.com/rlss10003-b...362-p-1023.html 2 days ago. shame on you guys :-( Edited August 13, 2007 by 316L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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