Rep vs homage

[Fireman_Fred]

I have been buying, owning, wearing watches since I was a kid. I bought my first "fake" battery operated "Rolex" when I was on holiday in Turkey in 1993, it was cheap and nasty and I ended up giving it to a friend.

 

The next one was a Tag (again, bought in Turkey). This one was automatic and stopped working on the bus back to the airport at the end of the holiday !!

 

That didn't put me off and soon I had another one (a Breitling, which I'd never heard of in those days). Fakes/reps, whatever you want to call them in those days (1990's), were not very true to the original, were made of poor materials and had a high failure rate.

 

Since then, I have continued in the rep game, especially since I discovered RWG all those years ago. At one point I owned around 30+ watches (all reps) and had one of each variation of the SMP (I love my Omegas!).

 

One day, my daughter found my "stash" of reps and said "Dad, why do you need so many watches?". I thought about it and decided she was right, you can't wear 30 watches !! I ended up selling most of them. I ended up with enough money to buy a second hand gen Omega !

 

I then went "big" and started buying and selling gens instead of reps. I could only afford one (or possibly two) reps at a time. I owned a number of different Tags, Omegas, Breitlings, Oris. I bought and sold when I fancied a change...

 

That brings me to the present and the title of my post (at last !!, you say). I now have 3 gen Omegas and a Tag. I still have about three reps as well but I also own a "homage" watch. It's a Steinhart Ocean One Vintage and is based on a Rolex Sea Dweller double red. It is Swiss made, has an ETA 2824-2 elabore movement, is WR to 300m, polished and brushed 316 stainless steel and came with a 2 year warranty. I bought it second hand, from Ebay when it still had 18 months warranty left and it cost me £350 (~US$420). I have been SCUBA diving with it (in Turkey !).

 

The other day, I was asked by a friend to sell my noob rep Rolex Submariner to him. I said I would, then I started looking for a replacement from the RWG trust dealers. I was looking at a Sea Dweller, which was going to cost me around $320 plus $35 postage from China.

 

Then I saw a 39mm Steinhart Submariner homage on Ebay for £340 ($410). The Steinhart has the genuine Swiss ETA 2824-2, sapphire crystal with double AR, ceramic bezel insert, 300m WR, comes in a nice leather box and still has 17 months warranty left. The Rolex Seadweller from China "claims" to have 5m WR an Asian clone ETA movement and is guaranteed to reach you in working condition. In the end my head won over my heart. The Steinhart is a stunning homage to the Rolex Submariner (although it says "Steinhart" on the dial, not "Rolex"). It begs the question, for the money and the peace of mind, why would you spend $350 on a rep that could stop working and fall to pieces with no come back when you can buy a homage of the. same watch (or similar) that it is built solidly, with quality materials and a 2 year, no quibble warranty ??

 

OK, I get the whole rep ownership thing, I've been there and done it (a lot !!) but I've also been frequently disappointed, especially when I've spent big bucks on a "super rep" !! As an example, I recently bought a 42mm titanium Omega Seamaster Ceramic with a (supposedly) ETA movement, from TrustyTime. It was not cheap. On arrival, it became apparent that the diver's extension was very loose and it keeps coming undone (very annoying!) but I put up with it, the bracelet broke on holiday and the watch fell off my wrist. I had to get it repaired. A few days ago, the ceramic bezel insert fell out (I've had to glue it back in) and, this morning, I was setting the time on it and the crown pusher fell out !!!

 

I rest my case....

 

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

 

[automatico]

I too would vote for the Steinhart because of reliability.

 

I usually end up 'overhauling' replicas that I wear for more that a few weeks because most of them are (I'm being polite here), Junk.

Imho replicas are Ok if you are a half azz watch mechanic and can keep them running.  For example...an MBK or cartel 55xx with a fresh ETA is hard to beat for a 'knock arounder' but they might cost as much as a Steinhart by the time you get one together. 

Otoh a genuine vintage 55xx, GMT etc is not worth a fidley damm for daily wear (imho) because of today's absurd prices and high service/parts cost, making replicas a viable alternative...if you can stand all the  'Fake people wear fake watches'  BS.  Ha!

I know a lot of fake people and none of them wear fake watches. 

 

"BREITLING: New Pluton 3100"

Bought a New Pluton 3100 in June 1990 from Alan Marcus & Co, Wash DC.  Traded it for a Callisto and some $$ in 1998. 

Iirc my 3100 had a Citizen/Miyota Y652  movement.  Seiko/Hattori H461 is the same thing.

 

 

 

[Sogeha]

Steinhart watches usually look great straight on, but flat lugs🤢

Not sexy and like wearing plywood

[Fireman_Fred]

Steinhart watches usually look great straight on, but flat lugs
Not sexy and like wearing plywood

The new 39mm version wears better than the 42mm. "Like wearing plywood" ?!

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[horologist]

On ‎8‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 6:04 PM, Fireman_Fred said:

It begs the question, for the money and the peace of mind, why would you spend $350 on a rep that could stop working and fall to pieces with no come back when you can buy a homage of the. same watch (or similar) that it is built solidly, with quality materials and a 2 year, no quibble warranty ??

 

A great post with very valid points!!!!

 

Firstly, my belief is that "there are replicas" and "there are also replicas".

 

When I first had access to the internet over 20 years ago, I was amazed at discovering a world that I never imagined and when I first heard of a replica watch forum, I almost burst out laughing!!!!  I thought - "seriously we have stooped so low that we need a forum to discuss $10 junk battery operated flea market copies?  really??? what have we come down to?  "  Well my judgement could not have been more wrong as I then saw a world I never imagined, as  I met some of the most intelligent, knowledgable, skilled and friendly people that one could ever meet who have educated me more than any other forum I know and have never looked back!!!!

 

My first experience in buying replicas was when Paul had his crazy $159  sales with high quality merchandise and was immediately hooked on this bug.  I never had a problem with any of his items and the quality for a "non quality control" outlet was impeccable, 

 

His submariners were well made with a quality eta 2836-2 movement and also passed the pressure test which I used it for swimming for many years.  I had a similar experience with Silix when Jay and Angel ran the show!!!

 

Then lets not forget the F series noobmariner!!!!  I prize it as much as the other quality pieces. 

 

I also know that people who are into replicas also have the real McCoy but prefer to use their replicas as every day beaters purely because of the high costs of maintenance and parts issue

 

Then later when demand increased with more factories in the Far East opening, compounded with when the Swatch group got nasty with their parts issue, I noticed a decline in the quality of most of the replicas thereafter.  I too had problems with what I purchased and had similar experiences to you, especially with their crappy eta clones that were purely junk in my opinion.  Mind you in the past I also had similar problems with  high quality genuine timepieces and even though I had warranty etc. in most cases I never got the satisfaction I expected.   It definitely was NOT a "no quibble warranty" !!! That is another story!!!

 

I then decided to build my own replicas in buying quality yuki cases and old stock sealed eta movements that were left over in watch supply houses resulting in a high quality watch.  I replaced the seals with genuine watch parts seals and gave them a good quality makeover exceeding my satisfaction.  I guess it is all in the mind as if you replace the dial with a sterile dial or have it redone with whatever label you want ( your girlfriends name for example LOL!!), you still have a quality watch of similar quality to other legit eta powered timepieces.  You then have a unique custom watch which is a far outcry from a crappy copy or replica!!!!

 

As with Steinhart, it is a good watch for the money you pay, but in my opinion it is nothing special as for the same money you could buy an identical homage watch such as Squale and even other well known brands.   It never attracted to me just as suggested by Sogeha   and for the same price if I can build my own, you can build it to your specifications and end up with a good custom watch if you can overlook the label Rolex or Omega which should not legally be there!!!  Each to their own!!!!

 

 

 

 

Edited August 12, 2019 by horologist

[Timelord]

On 10 August 2019 at 6:04 PM, Fireman_Fred said:

The Steinhart is a stunning homage to the Rolex Submariner (although it says "Steinhart" on the dial, not "Rolex"). It begs the question, for the money and the peace of mind, why would you spend $350 on a rep that could stop working and fall to pieces with no come back when you can buy a homage of the. same watch (or similar) that it is built solidly, with quality materials and a 2 year, no quibble warranty ??

 

I rest my case....

 

 

I have never seen a Steinhart sell new for $350 - especially the same homage as a rolex submariner, so replicas are still cheaper

 

I purchased the submariner steinhart  homage when in New Zealand and found it way too big ~ 42.mm, flat lugs and looked better on the webpage than it did on me  Don't get me wrong, a Good watch , but a bit overrated when I could have done better for a $100 more.

 

I paid mine approximately 700NZ$ and at the time, I could have got a Longines divers for an extra $135 when it was on sale at sheppards jewelers for the end of tax season .   I guess what makes us happy is the best answer to this question! 

 

[capice]

Nice write up mate....Every watch with a gen ETA goes first, rep second in terms of quality....but for me the point of collecting watches (reps and gen) is the chase of a watch, modifying it when possible, selling and buying another ect. I know...I am a watchaholic but can't help it.

I have collected watches for about 25 years, reps came along in the early 20th century...I must say I have been very lucky buying reps...started out with some phantasy pieces form Reg/Narika, then I got hooked by the watches of TTK/Neal, a totally 'intersting' experience dealing with Neal, then Paul, Silix with his crazy sales and Andrew/Trusty. 90% kept on running. I bought some very nice reps M2M and after visiting some GTG's, some from Deltick, a collector and great guy from the States which, allthough running on A23 mvts, were great watches...still have two now running as new after 13 years. One is my Pam 005 which will not be sold...:)

That was the time of watches hidden in plastic toys, even got one in a chinese shaver form Andrew ....great times...and no QCpics whatsoever...lol

Today most I buy M2M or from Andrew or Sead. Sadly I got scammed twice on RWI recently, I have lost a few k all over the years but it seems scammers are free to do whatever they want over there even a mod is defending the scambug so still waiting for a refund and then I am out of there.. But in general, 95% of my reps were good buys from trusted members on RWG and RG.

I almost never had the quality experiences you had with crowns falling off or bezels....I love tinkering with watches, repairing and modding whenever possible....luckily I have a good friend who works for a major watch and jewelry chain in germany and he helps me out when i am stuck, my collection now is about 65 reps and 10 gens, all in good condion and I notice that it get's harder for me to sell a good piece...sold my Pam 000 old skool last year and still regret ....:)

 

[capice]

17 hours ago, Kang John said:

More than 6000 styles 1:1 version as the original luxury item.www.cockjockeydonkeyporn.com

@Nanuq, @Mike on a bike...spammers around

[kernow]

5 hours ago, capice said:

@Nanuq, @Mike on a bike...spammers around

He’s gone. 😬

[automatico]

"My first experience in buying replicas was when Paul had his crazy $159  sales with high quality merchandise and was immediately hooked on this bug.  I never had a problem with any of his items and the quality for a "non quality control" outlet was impeccable. 

His submariners were well made with a quality eta 2836-2 movement and also passed the pressure test which I used it for swimming for many years."

 

My first experience with mail order 'swiss replicas' was with Watchlover David around '99 or 2000.  The watches I got had new swiss ETA 2836 and they will still run today...no date sapphire 'lug hole submariner' and ETA 2836 'Too Big' AK in 36mm cases with sapphire crystals and no hole cases.  You can turn the AK into an explorer by changing the dial and hands.

Next it was Paul for a few vintage submariners/sapphire submariners/GMT/Exp II plus a couple vintage '1655' and one '1675'.  The 1655 and 1675 were not too hot because they were in submariner cases.  All had new swiss ETA 2836 and were good quality except the vintage submariners had the rotating bezels shoved down over 'short skirt' crystals with a spring wire expanding between the crystal and case top to hold it in place rather than an inner bezel.  Good movements/bracelets, fair dials, nice silver DW, oem spec case necks, case tube threads, and OEM spec He valves. 

 

Before and during the 'swiss replica' and Frankenstein phase, I had quite a few A21 jewel low ball replicas.  Some good, some not so good.  I burnt out on Frankensteins with rlx 15xx movements a while back and removed the 15xx and went back to slow beat swiss ETAs.  Now if I drop one I am not afraid to pick it up (I've posted all this before).

 

So what's new?

In between projects I sometimes stick a 'grudge watch' together that I wear just to see how it holds up.  A 'grudge watch' is basically a watch that gets no respect and has no future.  This time it's a cartel '5513' with manual wind Seagull ST16 (a/w works removed).  This is old news but the 'new' news is after maybe a month of abuse it has really surprised me.  I wind it every morning and set it on Sundays...it might lose a little or gain a little depending on wearing conditions and how it lays at night.  I did not set it last week and this week it was about 25 seconds fast.  Pretty good for a grudge watch with a $35 movement...better than my $$ F-steins with rlx 15xx or swiss ETA. 

 

 

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