Admin Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Dear members and dealers, As has been mentioned on the board several times already, we in admin have the feeling that it might be time for a new standardised offers policy. We believe that this should be created by the members, in conjunction with input from our dealers. This new policy is intended to be voluntary for all dealers but those who decide to participate could be specially identified as an 'Upgraded' dealer or similar in order that members can readily see who has signed up for the policy. The idea is that we create some standard terms and descriptions as well as some grading of quality of standards which an offer has to contain. As we are only moderating this forum we would like to ask you all to work something out with us together. The input of all dealers is especially welcome!We are aware that some dealer descriptions already go to great lengths to describe products, however others can be vague and in some cases there is misleading information as has been discovered recently. To get us started in the right direction the first idea is to create 6 different categories (those considered to be the most important, in order for a prospective buyer to properly assess the value of the offered watch) and these would be: 1. Movement 2. Crystal 3. Lume 4. Case (is it compatible with genuine parts?) 5. Functions 6. Bracelet/strap Aside from the terms of the offer and the general description of the watch, we feel that it's important that the standards of the core categories above must be contained in the offer. As said all input is welcome in an effort to take the board a step forward and to avoid a reoccurence of the recent issue on the 2892 movement! To complete the new voluntary offer rules we also think that the dealers who are willing to accept the rules onboard should be encouraged to deliver the same minimum criteria on their own webshops. We recognize that as there are a lot of items on the webshops, the dealers who sign up for the policy would require a reasonable time to update this information. As said this is an idea intended to make selling and buying for both parties easier. The dealers would have fewer complaints and the buyers would hopefully know exactly what they'll get for their money. As this will benefit both parties (dealer and member) we expect that the members and dealers could work hand in hand on this. Your admin team are here to look after this site, we don't see our role to be one of policing dealers' advertising or statements. It will be in the best interests of the membership to establish an acceptable code, to both the members and dealer:, after all, the dealers are members here as well! Please contribute any thoughts and/or ideas in this thread. The RWG Team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 This is excellent news. Will the terms used (ie synthetic sapphire, mineral) be standardised? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonthebhoy Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Will the terms used (ie synthetic sapphire, mineral) be standardised? This is the members and dealers call and any "standardised policy" will be their creation by agreement. If standard terms, such as you cite, are the will of the many then why not. JTB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovepanerai Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 this seems to be a great idea - let's see if the dealers can agree on standard terminology a lot of suggestions have been made already - like: - the term AR should always be a real AR coating and not something like light AR or just a tint on the crystal - sapphire crystal, mineral crystal, plastic crystal - those are the 3 possible grades AFAIK needless to call sapphire "synthetic" and actually mean mineral no need to go on here since it all has been discussed numerous times. Dealers: please help getting clarity about what you are actually selling and please stop using missleading terms... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 We in admin thought a lot about this and have different ideas but we think it's the best if everyone here dealers and members work something out together instead that we present maybe something most doesn't feel good with. We in admin are open for all ideas and samples for an "voluntariy standardised policy contract... The categories listed are also only examples which must worked out more detailed for example: movements: Swiss ETA = movement produced by ETA-company (factory located anywhere in the world)Asia ETA = copy movement of the Swiss ETA (look a likes - mainly produced in Asia)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Now where is the fun in that? Just kidding. This will be interesting. I do thinkyou have the right categories. Here is my shot: Movement: Swiss ETA (Swiss parts) A7750 (new or old) CN ETA clones Asian 21j Crystal: Sapphire Mineral Plastic AR Coat (yes or no) Lume: Generic Luminova Super Luminova (if hands are different from dial, specify) Case: SS (316l or other) ti if gold plated: 5mm or more Less than 5mm Fits Genuine Parts: Yes/No Functions: Are what they are. If Faux chrono or "He" valve say this Bracelet or strap: Whichever it is. Finally, if a dealer doesn't know the answer to a particular question I would prefer to see them still list the item but state that. If you are going to try and enforce it on their web site I suspect you will know who actually relies on these forums for substantial sales and who doesn't. Should be interesting. Already I feel like some dealers are using listings on this forum as their excess inventory dump off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmena Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Great! And please go even further on recognizing and labeling dealers that adopt these standards... this could be like and ISO and quality recognizion... define terms, names, descriptions. Just go to some of the genuine descriptions on the brand sites and follow and improve the way they describe characteristics by adding specific terms regarding replica world definitions (Asian ETA, Swiss, Asian 7750 old, new...). Allow forum members to rate dealers transactions like we do on eBay. And help dealers by protecting them from "unexperienced" buyers also. All the above paragraph is just a result from a brainstorming session I did with my self But the message is that as you mods have taken a position on this topic (thanks) don't let it die. Thanks for the initiative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Just hope the dealers will also post here even if the chinese new year is starting... Personally i have talked a lot with one of our dealers here and he said he would also ship a watch he isn't 100% shure about (especially the movement) to one of the watchgurus here so they could confirm what it would be... as i talked only with the dealer about it we have to see if someone maybe Ziggy willing to do so if we come to an agreement with our dealers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Great! And please go even further on recognizing and labeling dealers that adopt these standards... this could be like and ISO and quality recognizion... define terms, names, descriptions. Just go to some of the genuine descriptions on the brand sites and follow and improve the way they describe characteristics by adding specific terms regarding replica world definitions (Asian ETA, Swiss, Asian 7750 old, new...). Allow forum members to rate dealers transactions like we do on eBay. And help dealers by protecting them from "unexperienced" buyers also. All the above paragraph is just a result from a brainstorming session I did with my self But the message is that as you mods have taken a position on this topic (thanks) don't let it die. Thanks for the initiative. Thats the way i would like to see... but we'll see what can be worked out here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r11co Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 WRT movements, rather than just generic categories the movement number should be specified where possible eg. ETA2824, Asian 6497. Also, when the correct designation of a movement is known it should be used in addition eg. Seagull ST-18/Asian 2892 clone. Many of the dealers know exactly who the factories are buying the movements from, so they shouldn't be afraid to let the movement makers' products be known by name! If a dealer is unsure about the contents of a watch then we should provide some sort of identification service (as stated above!!) Also terms we know to be complete nonsense should no longer be used eg. Unitas, Lemania.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLATINUM Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Thats the way i would like to see... but we'll see what can be worked out here This is going in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usil Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 This was where I hoped this was all going from the Pugwash thread. Usil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 This was where I hoped this was all going from the Pugwash thread. "Guys .. dun be a Pug" - Joshua Nana, Perfect Clones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b16a2 Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 This is great news! Yes we definitely need descriptions in light of the newest reps available. AR coating should be listed if it is like the new BCE. Precise origins of the movement so there are no mistakes or uncertainties. 1:1 - does it therefore accept genuine dial crown etc... (is the size of the case exact to the original) In relation to lume, I think perhaps a lume shot after 40secs under a lamp so we can gauge for ourselves the brightness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trustywatchguy Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 (edited) ... Edited February 23, 2007 by trustywatchguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b16a2 Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Hi Admin Having 1000+ products on a webstore and needing to change everything is absolutely not a viable option. What I can best do is to put a Watch FAQ describing the terms I had used. In that way, I will think it will serve best purposes. Thanks! Happy CNY... I am off for a break! Andrew Would it not be possbile to do it for the replicas that you advertise from now on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Josh and Andrew have a "date added" at the bottom of their pages. They could easily change the template to read "please read the FAQ (linked) to understand the terms used for items posted before 14-February-2007" for example. And subsequent items can have standardised descriptions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Can't see any problems with proposal......happy to comply.......in the event of uncertainty.......I'll state so.....! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMK000 Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Can't see any problems with proposal......happy to comply.......in the event of uncertainty.......I'll state so.....! Well done Captain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Would it not be possbile to do it for the replicas that you advertise from now on? Josh and Andrew have a "date added" at the bottom of their pages. They could easily change the template to read "please read the FAQ (linked) to understand the terms used for items posted before 14-February-2007" for example. And subsequent items can have standardised descriptions? Valid points - this has also to be discussed if only items listed from now on have to fullfill the specs or if a certain period of time should be given to edit all items, or... any input is welcome especially from the dealers. @TTK: Great to hear you would join - expect the same for Narikaa @TWG: Happy new year and a nice holiday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertk Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Great idea. Hope to see it implemented soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sashwatch Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 i have always try to describe my offerings to the best of my knowledge and truth... after some "lesson" learnt i support the admin decision too... Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trustywatchguy Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 (edited) ... =) Edited February 23, 2007 by trustywatchguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiker01 Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Hi Admin Having 1000+ products on a webstore and needing to change everything is absolutely not a viable option. What I can best do is to put a Watch FAQ describing the terms I had used. In that way, I will think it will serve best purposes. Thanks! Happy CNY... I am off for a break! Andrew FAQ is good, but this does not qualify as an "UPGRADED" dealer category.....UPGRADED means they went out of their way and took the time to update their website. If this is time consuming for the dealers (I know its not impossible) and they will stick with the FAQ Option, then may I suggest that any new models they add should have the new standardized description and should be annotated as such! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 (edited) For movements why not use terms such as : Swiss ETA - for genuine ETA movements. Asian ETA clone - for clone/copy movements. eg. -Swiss ETA 7753 in the PAM187 -Swiss ETA 2824-2 -Swiss ETA 2836-2 -Swiss ETA "Unitas" 6497-1 etc or -Asian ETA 775x clone -Asian ETA 7750 clone -Asian 2824-2 clone -Asian ETA "Unitas" 6492-2 clone (higher bph I think) -Asian Venus clone (not sure of model etc) -Asian Seagull ST-18 / ETA 2892-2 clone Specifically for the Asian 7750 as it is currently known, it should be specified whether it is the older version or the newer "b1" version The older one has hands that will fit a Swiss ETA 7750 movement, while the newer version does not, and requires cannibalization of the Asian movement, transferring parts to the ETA 7750. As we already have some convention for these, why not use: Asian 7750a1 clone (21,6000bph interchangeable with Swiss ETA 7750) Asian 7750b1 clone (28,800bph, more reliable than a1 clone) This would help in an advertising sense as well as for modders who will upgrade to an ETA 7750. I also think if a movement is modified it should be stated... therefore: for Rlx, Omega, PAM GMTs: -Omega Seamaster GMT with modified Swiss ETA 2836-2 movement similarly, -PAM086 GMT with modified Asian ETA 7750b1 clone movement -PAM187 with modified Asian ETA 7750b1 clone movement -Daytona with modified Swiss ETA 7750 movement -PAM212 with modified Swiss ETA 7750 movement I hope that makes sense and will be useful. Edited February 14, 2007 by Chronus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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