TeeJay Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 Hi TeeJay, As a Chinese person, I find your comment to be a bit harsh. Not all Chinese business practice are of this way, as I am sure not all western business are the exact opposite. There are bad fish in the sea. Your own opinion, although based upon your own dealings, seemed to generalize all Chinese businesses, and I just don't think that is true. My parents owned a business, and they never performed such practice of do anything at all cost so that they can get your business, so I wish you could be a bit more accurate with regards to your descriptions. Based on what you said in the above post, you had drawn on your own conclusion, that all Chinese business practice are bad, all Thai and Japanese business practice are good, and we know that is not the entire truth. Hi Woody, I'm sorry if you took my comment to be harsh or offensive, it was certainly not intended to be. If I may make an observation, I see that you live in America. Would I be correct in thinking that you, and your parents were raised in America rather than China? If so, I would like to respectfully point out, that your cultural values would be rather westernized, rather than entirely Chinese in nature. If this is an incorrect assumption, then I apologize for my assumption. The point I am trying to make, is that the values of an Asian-American will be quite different to those of a Chinese person living in China. My experiences have been with people from Hong Kong who came to the UK to study, and people from Shanghai who moved to the UK as an outlet for their business (dress making) in China. While I would not like to 'tar everyone with the same brush', it has certainly been my experience (and also the experience of others) that people from China have had a very similar outlook and approach to life, which Chinese people I know who were born and raised in the UK did not have. Once more, my apologies if you took offense at my comments, I was merely trying to make people more aware of the cultural differences involved so they could better understand some of the behaviours reported. As I said to Robertk: I NEVER said one was good, one was bad, I said that the two are VERY DIFFERENT and what is acceptable to one group, is not acceptable to the other. That does not mean one is better than the other, it just means they are DIFFERENT. Those differences need to be acknowledged and understood so they can be anticipated and overcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 A sober, measured, thoughtful response to the forum input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archibald Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 Bundling the business practices of 1/4 of the Earth's population into one half-glib sentence was unhlepful, but it accidentally raised an important point: Acceptable business practices may be different all over, but everyone in question by now ought to understand from long standing practice what acceptable bvusiness practives are here. . Kudos to our top-notch admins and mods for moving quickly to codify them. It's going to make things better for everyone. I'd also urge everyone who's worked with a non RWG they have come to trust to introduce them to RWG. I know a totally trustworthy guy who sells parts and a few reps on the side and have just emailed him--I haven't done so before because I thought we just about had it covered over here, but now I say the more the merrier. After all, as effecttive as the amin's new enforcement will undoubtedly be, the best way to end price fixing is good ol' fashioned competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftydna Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 You know unlike some of the naysayers who thought this thread would die out and then things would revert back to "normal" I was already seeing changes! Smaller dealers are jumping into a opening they saw, hopefully offering better service and prices, which along with this thread and Admin's decision will put pressure on the others to respond in kind (better service, prices, honest descriptions) in order to not lose business or even grow! All in all one of those growing pains both sides needed to go through to hopefully move forward to even bigger and better REPS!!!!!!!!! ______________ Don't be LEFT out LeftyDNA As a Mod I should not really comment to this discussion whilst it is happening on our board I will however say one thing, all the boards were formed and exsisted quite happily without dealer websites for a long time it would be very easy to revert to what we had. Ken Ok I see T has posted his statement so it is ok for my above comment now........................phew that was close Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 Bundling the business practices of 1/4 of the Earth's population into one half-glib sentence was unhlepful, but it accidentally raised an important point: Acceptable business practices may be different all over, but everyone in question by now ought to understand from long standing practice what acceptable bvusiness practives are here. . It was never my intention to be in any way glib about Chinese Business Practices, but to be as mindfull of cultural sensitivity as possible, while getting over (intentionally) the point that acceptable business practices are different all over, and people need to be aware of that before crying foul. For example. I have read complaints left about my dealer where people have had an issue and had to ship the goods back to China, and did not seem to understand why they had to ship them back to China rather than Canada, where the dealer lives. If those people could get it through their thick skulls that the product is not coming from Canada but coming from China, it would not be hard to understand why they have to go back to China in the event of a problem, and they would then not complain about the destination they have to ship to in the unfortunate event of a mistake. (which can happen with dropshipping) I'd also urge everyone who's worked with a non RWG they have come to trust to introduce them to RWG. I know a totally trustworthy guy who sells parts and a few reps on the side and have just emailed him--I haven't done so before because I thought we just about had it covered over here, but now I say the more the merrier. After all, as effecttive as the amin's new enforcement will undoubtedly be, the best way to end price fixing is good ol' fashioned competition. I have three potential dealers lined up who I plan to order from over the next 3 months. When I have evaluated their product and business ethic, I will be more than happy to pass on the names, but at present, I do not want to recommend people look at them as I cannot personally vouch for them, and I would not want people to think I was promoting poor dealers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivia Posted March 30, 2007 Report Share Posted March 30, 2007 @TeeJay "It was never my intention to be in any way glib about Chinese Business Practices, but to be as mindfull of cultural sensitivity as possible, while getting over (intentionally) the point that acceptable business practices are different all over, and people need to be aware of that before crying foul. " I think most people understood that your intensions were to be helpful. It is almost impossible to say anything substantial without offending someone, somewhere, sometime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 Hi Woody, I'm sorry if you took my comment to be harsh or offensive, it was certainly not intended to be. If I may make an observation, I see that you live in America. Would I be correct in thinking that you, and your parents were raised in America rather than China? If so, I would like to respectfully point out, that your cultural values would be rather westernized, rather than entirely Chinese in nature. If this is an incorrect assumption, then I apologize for my assumption. The point I am trying to make, is that the values of an Asian-American will be quite different to those of a Chinese person living in China. My experiences have been with people from Hong Kong who came to the UK to study, and people from Shanghai who moved to the UK as an outlet for their business (dress making) in China. While I would not like to 'tar everyone with the same brush', it has certainly been my experience (and also the experience of others) that people from China have had a very similar outlook and approach to life, which Chinese people I know who were born and raised in the UK did not have. Once more, my apologies if you took offense at my comments, I was merely trying to make people more aware of the cultural differences involved so they could better understand some of the behaviours reported. As I said to Robertk: I NEVER said one was good, one was bad, I said that the two are VERY DIFFERENT and what is acceptable to one group, is not acceptable to the other. That does not mean one is better than the other, it just means they are DIFFERENT. Those differences need to be acknowledged and understood so they can be anticipated and overcome. Hi TeeJay, It is ok. Based on your previous statement. It is ok, perhaps the wording of it could be fine tuned. I was not born in America. Neither are my folks. As a matter of fact, my folks are still in Asia. Taiwan to be specific. The practice of business can be differ in China vs. Taiwan, but I think it was still a tad harsh. But all is well, and I have half of eastern and half of western thoughts in my upbringing actually. Apologies accpepted if you can especially get me one of those Pilot Chronos!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 Hi TeeJay, It is ok. Based on your previous statement. It is ok, perhaps the wording of it could be fine tuned. I was not born in America. Neither are my folks. As a matter of fact, my folks are still in Asia. Taiwan to be specific. The practice of business can be differ in China vs. Taiwan, but I think it was still a tad harsh. But all is well, and I have half of eastern and half of western thoughts in my upbringing actually. Apologies accpepted if you can especially get me one of those Pilot Chronos!! Hi Woody, Thanks for accepting the apology with the spirit it was intended with, and sorry for assuming you were born in America. Pilot Chrono? Not too sure what watch you're refering too. I've seen a rather nice GMT II for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 @TeeJay I think most people understood that your intensions were to be helpful. It is almost impossible to say anything substantial without offending someone, somewhere, sometime. This is very true, which is why I like to be as precise as possible with what I say so my intentions are clear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 It took me so long to read this loop that the Admin already made his decision and it seems the closest thing to a plausible solution. If it works it will be proof that we are the lionshare of most dealer's business. If it doesn't then we will know something else. Maybe we are legends in our own minds. So is my takeaway correct that the cartel continues in whatever form it is currently in but the dealers have to post most of their goods here and be honest about them. Now if I was a member of a "smart" cartel I would designate one or two people to sell here and the other one or two to not post here but sell everywhere else with those fabulous descriptions. And guess which members of the cartel would get the next HBB first. Most importantly, Thomas has come up with a good standard. Make those who sell here be honest. If you are dishonest please leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk45ca Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 @Tulsa That he did... TT PS: Can't you just feel the LOVE around here... now you are in the 918, i don't always use that other server. lol, i was afraid you were thinking i was a wheat farmer for awhile. i am just glad he was able to get their attention. this stuff has been going on for along time. a really long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craytonic Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 Well, guys, as you can imagine, this has been discussed a lot in the admin section ever since the thread started. I know some members have aired some concern about the admin being quiet, but I must admit that I take my admin responsibilities seriously and don't jump into these things without discussing it with the great team of co-admins and moderators we have here at RWG. (OK, I sometime so, but not often ) What we have been talking about is many of the same things Neil has mentioned above. We have concentrated on the things we know and left the allogations about other things that can not be proven, like the PP issues, out of this equation. I'm not going to make this a lengthy post (I was, but I just deleted most of it, as most of the things I was about to say have been discussed in the thread), but we all know what has been going on. So let's go straight to the actions that will be taken; 1. No dealers will be suspended or banned from RWG 2. Any dealer who wish to remain a dealer at RWG will start selling their watches at RWG. All links to external webshops will be removed from RWG, both in posts and signatures. If a member wants info about a particular model for sale or info about a dealer, they can request it via PM or e-mail to the dealer in question. Both the members and the RWG crew expect to see an increase of new watches posted in all dealer sections. More details for the dealers will be available in the dealers area about this policy. The rules for the dealer section will also be updated as fast as possible. 4. We open up a new "Dealer misrepresentation forum" where members can post about items they think has the wrong description. We do not expect every dealer to be an expert on movements and the technical aspects of his watch, but we expect a truthful description of the watches. If a dealer is not certain of the movement in a watch, this should be posted followed by a picture of the movement or the interested members can request follow-up photos by e-mail or PM. What we do expect is that the dealer will respond to threads in this forum and I do remind you that we have different cultures on this forum, and not everybody appreciates all the fu** and shi** flying around in this thread, so let any discussion remain in a very civil way. 5. This is where we draw a new line for the dealers. If this line is stepped over, a suspension will be the first warning. One more error, and you are out of here. Regarding this, let me come with a strong suggestion to all the dealers here at RWG to participate in any discussions regarding your problems. Most problems can easily be resolved with fast and hones communications. We are all humans and we all do mistakes! Let me just add some final comments to this post, regarding other posts/threads on RWG right now. RWG is here to discuss replicas and have fun with people who share the same (special) interest that you do. We are here to talk about watches and other fun topics. A lot of us have found out that we share many similiar intereste with many members here and many new friendships have been formed here and many more will be formed. Every boards has it's ups and downs when it comes to the "general feel" of the forum. That's just the way things are. TT says it all the time; Where people meet, life happens. And let me just add to that; no matter what happens, life goes on.... Have a nice day/evening/night wherever you are in the world. Admin RWG Admin Everyone should be VERY skepitcal of a new watch that is posted on a dealer website and not here; dealers are now completely unaccountable for their private listings. I might insist on a listing here before purchasing. I am very happy Admin has come up with a good solution. I hope the sites out there don't turn into replica center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 Edge I am lying to you. Andrew Sorry guys, I'm on page 4 so way behind everyone, and this post is probably outdated now, havent been around much lately.... doing overtime tomorrow so I'm way behind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b16a2 Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 Good choice Admin! From here on, hopefully we can see RWG get back to what is does best; buy and talk watches! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sony Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 Just like before, whole lotta discussion and puny little change that doesn't do much... And yet, we forget so quickly. I still have not heard one word of apology from the dealers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivia Posted April 1, 2007 Report Share Posted April 1, 2007 Do we know when this "Dealer Misrepresentstion Forum" is going to be created? Or, has it been and I can't find it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sony Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 Empty Promises ..... "All links to external webshops will be removed from RWG, both in posts and signatures. Both the members and the RWG crew expect to see an increase of new watches posted in all dealer sections. " I see the dealers' website links everywhere, especially in the dealers' section even in their profiles. Those 4 problematic dealers have not yet responded, nor started to post their watches here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 "All links to external webshops will be removed from RWG, both in posts and signatures. Yes, we in admin share your concerns. The dealers have undertaken to rectify this within 7 days, and we are tidying up what we can NOW. Offshore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 Empty Promises ..... "All links to external webshops will be removed from RWG, both in posts and signatures. Both the members and the RWG crew expect to see an increase of new watches posted in all dealer sections. " I see the dealers' website links everywhere, especially in the dealers' section even in their profiles. Those 4 problematic dealers have not yet responded, nor started to post their watches here. @New York I've about had it with your: Lack of positive contribution to this forum... Your negative input... And your general shitty attitude... TT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torques Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 @New York I've about had it with your: Lack of positive contribution to this forum... Your negative input... And your general shitty attitude... TT Nasty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted April 4, 2007 Report Share Posted April 4, 2007 @New York I've about had it with your: Lack of positive contribution to this forum... Your negative input... And your general shitty attitude... TT Lack of positive contribution? Excuse me for saying, but Sony was the one who posted the manipulative email that Joshua sent him. That was a very usefull contribution to this forum in general, and this community as a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
export Posted April 8, 2007 Report Share Posted April 8, 2007 Dealers not making much money?? Selling !cheap! Asian subs for a minimum of $120, when I have bought them in Shenzen for $30 that actually look the same or better...... Thats not a bad mark up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdorman Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 Dealers not making much money?? Selling !cheap! Asian subs for a minimum of $120, when I have bought them in Shenzen for $30 that actually look the same or better...... Thats not a bad mark up. $30!!! Would love to see some pictures of those... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juyaku Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 So, what happened to the rule about not allowing dealer websites? http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=42718 HI All Trusty Time is fully operational now at: www.trustytime.com www.trustytime88.com You can purchase direct from our webstore using Credit Cards, MoneyBookers, Western union, Egold etc. All enquiries can be directed to: admin@trustytime88.com **Previously there were some Mail Server problems so emails were not received at all. Thanks! Have a nice weekend! REGARDS Andrew admin@trustytime88.com www.trustytime88.com www.trustytime.com This post has been edited by trustywatchguy: Aug 5 2007, 02:47 AM ___________________ TWG (TrustyWatchGuy) - Andrew PLEASE VISIT US AT WWW.TRUSTYTIME88.COM TODAY!!! E-mail me for my other collections email: admin@trustytime88.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b16a2 Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 This has already been discussed. Teeyjay noted this and we all had a good debate about it. Some were of the opinion that it was fair to do so, some were not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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