The Time has Come to Say Something....

[JWR]

I'd love to see the IPs of some of the 1 and 2 post wonders who have surfaced in this thread with defense of their beloved dealers.

I have had one good dealing with joshua, i guess... i bought what I thought would be a 24mm submersible style rubber strap... turned out to be 26mm. but it was $35 so who cares.

I don't like the upward price trends on 2824 and 2836 powered watches... not when $100 buys a 2836 from silix.

[andreww]

Agreed..Andreww but the Admins and Mods have obviously condoned this, as they have ultimate say...so it's safe to say that the very people that run and moderate this forum are equally as guilty for adding and abetting these dishonest dealers and giving them the opportunity to screw us?

Andrew and Josh used to post product, but have let that slide as of late. I think the admins have tolerated that, but it now may be time to re-evaluate the situation. I don't believe the admin her should share any culpability in this matter, although I believe they may have been a little asleep at the switch after the "wight lies" thread.

[Jawo]

No offense meant, Tim....but I couldn't resist the cheap shot.

As for Strange Scenes Inside the Goldmine, here's an excerpt from a post on RWG1 - which you may not visit under penalty of being treated like a jerk by certain members of this board.

I take no responsibility for its accuracy or veracity, but if it's true, it only goes to prove some issues that have been raised here.

Member LVSS wrote:

'Funny thing, tho....the "Perfect Clone" Sub I have been looking at on Josh's site was listed at $258 for some time, but now Josh has informed me via email that the Sub "PC" will not be available until late April or early March.....AND the price will be $450-$550.

That's quite a markup.'

http://www.replica-watches-guide.com/forum...mp;#entry379081

If you are refering to the 0013 model, Andrew e-mailed me and is selling it for $308 and has plenty of stock. If Joshua and Andrew are working together, I can't see how there would be a $200+ price increase for the same model. I have never gotten any suprises from Joshua. Always as advertised, always as promised. Most of the rep dealers seem to be located in China. Most of them accept credit card payment to protect themselves as well as the client. I am a super noob, but so far I have only seen 1 instance of a rep being misrepresented. Maybe not in his earlier days, but all recent transactions in the past year. This mistake happening maybe a good thing. Lesson learned and new chance to improve on integrity.

[andreww]

I don't like the upward price trends on 2824 and 2836 powered watches... not when $100 buys a 2836 from silix.

Yes, but Silix seems to have problems getting the latest "new products". I wonder why?

[Steve G]

Andrew and Josh used to post product, but have let that slide as of late. I think the admins have tolerated that, but it now may be time to re-evaluate the situation. I don't believe the admin her should share any culpability in this matter, although I believe they may have been a little asleep at the switch after the "wight lies" thread.

I still agree with you..just playing a little devils advocate. The day they stopped posting product but still paid their "dues" to have dealer status is the day the mods should have thrown them out. I think their might be other politics involved which grant them safe passage here.

I can only imagine what kind of influence looms over this very forum and others just like it.

[andreww]

Maybe not in his earlier days, but all recent transactions in the past year. This mistake happening maybe a good thing. Lesson learned and new chance to improve on integrity.

Didn't you just say you are a "super newb"? Just joined today did you? You really seem to know a lot about Josh's business and history Mr. Newb.

[bigben]

I'd love to see the IPs of some of the 1 and 2 post wonders who have surfaced in this thread with defense of their beloved dealers.

I second that - awfully suspicious. Given the improper grammar and uncommon phrases, I'd be willing to bet they are from mainland China.

[offshore]

Agreed..Andreww but the Admins and Mods have obviously condoned this, as they have ultimate say...so it's safe to say that the very people that run and moderate this forum are equally as guilty for adding and abetting these dishonest dealers and giving them the opportunity to screw us?

Hardly, the Admin and Mods act on the will of the majority.... so if you really wish to take someone to task, maybe a mirror is appropriate.

I think their might be other politics involved which grant them safe passage here.

I can only imagine what kind of influence looms over this very forum and others just like it.

No politics on this forum...Sport......and no influence from ANY outside parties....Sport!

If you wish to cast insinuations, with No knowledge of the people who work for YOU on this forum, I suggest you seek another thread to do so, and choose a time when each can have the right of reply

Offshore

[PureTime]

Dear All,

After reading about 15 pages, I feel I have to explain something.

First of all, I was not being silent to this topic, I was told to see this topic only yesterday, because there was an unappropriate quote from a private e-mail between Tim and me so I contacted him to remove the content, I did not mean the content was not true but it was completely off-topic.

I don't know why you all call me one of the "cartel", "gang 4"? The B&R project was exclusive to Josh and Andrew, they did not sell me any, I see no point this reflects I am one of the gang 4.

I know them all, no one says competitors cannot be friends, but this only limits to "just to say hi", I just only say hi to them when I see them. I declear I have NOTHING to do with them with business (you may say I am another cartel but surely not one of them). In the earlier post that Tim had quoted a private converstation between us, I ship out my watches by the same courier as Josh uses, I take my watches to the courier to ship. The courier is my friend, sometimes I helped him to pack the watches and bring the watches from the market to his office, that's it!! I NEVR drop ship for Josh and Andrew. If I don't explain, many of you may think I was the drop shipper for Josh and Andrew but I AM NOT!! I say again I don't have any business relaationship with them.

But why was I being included into the Cartel? I guess you are talking about the prices... please take a look at my offerings and their web-site, I ammit some of them we are in similar prices but can it really judge me that I am one of them?

Would I remind you something? Do you remember about the Hublot Big Bang? Do you remember the conversation in the topic? I don't want to explain anything, I simply give you the link, if you happen to have extra time for learning more about me, please read:

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=17990

If you still agree I am one of the so called "Cartel" or "gang 4" after reading this, I will say nothing.

Something for your reference, I was the only authorised dealer of the Hublot Big Bang watch maker (when the HBB was released, I was the only one having this watch), Josh wanted to sell his watches so he contacted the watch maker for many times, the watch maker finally offered his watches to Josh but the watch maker asked us not to make a price war on his watches and that is why we are selling at similar prices only with the watches made by the HBB maker, for the new Ferrari, do we have the same price? And if I remember correctly I was the first one to mark the price.

I declear again I am NOT in any alliance and please don't keep saying that about me because I feel very upset by this word, ok?

If you do not understand anyting, I am willing to explain, please e-mail me at puretime2005@gmail.com because I don't have much time to keep looking at this post. But of course I will keep an eye on this post and any questions are welcome.

Cheers,

Angus

EDITED: Some inappropriate comments deleted.

Edited March 29, 2007 by PureTime

[JWR]

I, for one, appreciate Angus' forthrightness and the percieved sincerity of his post.

[andreww]

But why was I being included into the Cartel? I guess you are talking about the prices... please take a look at my offerings and their web-site, I ammit some of them we are in similar prices but can it really judge me that I am one of them?

Why did josh and andrew state that the steelfish was only available from the four of you, and that the price was set, and would not drop?

[Daytona4me]

Agreed..Andreww but the Admins and Mods have obviously condoned this, as they have ultimate say...so it's safe to say that the very people that run and moderate this forum are equally as guilty for adding and abetting these dishonest dealers and giving them the opportunity to screw us?

That's just silly!

I can see it now.... hold on... it's coming.............

Picture.. In Lights... dah.dah.dada! "We are Banning Josh and Andrew for not posting in their foums in a couple months" LMAO

Yeah.. that wouldnt not have caused a freakin riot!

Everyone would have been yelling... "off with their heads" if any staff would have proposed such a thing.

"adding and abetting these dishonest dealers and giving them the opportunity to screw us?" Yes,, you nailed it, dont forget to take your loupe with you when you hand review every rep you puchase as you travel to China to ensure that this does not happen to you again!

Seriously,, I can only imagine that you are in the middle of your street running around in circles while naked trying to figure out where in the hell that flying saucer went!

[Tim]

That is pretty harsh. Capitalist yes, republican no, this is hardly an establishment to be apologetic for. We're not talking about watergate here. Just trying to keep everything in perspective.

I live in Washington. Sorry, got carried away.

/Tim

[andreww]

That's just silly!

I can see it now.... hold on... it's coming.............

Picture.. In Lights... dah.dah.dada! "We are Banning Josh and Andrew for not posting in their foums in a couple months" LMAO

Yeah.. that wouldnt not have caused a freakin riot!

Everyone would have been yelling... "off with their heads" if any staff would have proposed such a thing.

"adding and abetting these dishonest dealers and giving them the opportunity to screw us?" Yes,, you nailed it, dont forget to take your loupe with you when you hand review every rep you puchase as you travel to China to ensure that this does not happen to you again!

Seriously,, I can only imagine that you are in the middle of your street running around in circles while naked trying to figure out where in the hell that flying saucer went!

Thats not what I was getting at D4Me. I am saying that it would be one thing for our site to have rules for dealers, but it would be hard to charge these guys with any wrong doing here, because they don't post here. Can RWG dictate what they do on their private sites? I think not. Either we dictate that they post their watches here, or we must break the link to their sites.

[Tim]

I think the problem with that is the "cartel" in question haven't posted a watch for sale here since Nov 2006, at least Josh and Andrew haven't. They have a website now...they might as well be Replica House we trust them because they once posted and used RWG to sell their wares.

We still list them in the Trading Zone under "Watch Dealers". When I first came here, this is how I found the dealers and where to go. So instead of having just the "Watch Dealers" forum, have a second forum called "Watch Dealers on Probation". We can even have a sticky disclaimer at the top of the forum that states that there has been problems with the below listed dealers.

/Tim

[PureTime]

Why did josh and andrew state that the steelfish was only available from the four of you, and that the price was set, and would not drop?

The SteelFish is made by the HBB maker, the maker only supplies to 4 of us and we have to sell at similar prices. Actually the maker will sell to somebody else and other dealers may happen to have one or two from other sources.

[bigben]

The SteelFish is made by the HBB maker, the maker only supplies to 4 of us and we have to sell at similar prices. Actually the maker will sell to somebody else and other dealers may happen to have one or two from other sources.

Okay - I hope I don't have to spell out the inconsistency in these two sentences.

[PureTime]

Okay - I hope I don't have to spell out the inconsistency in these two sentences.

Sorry, the watch maker only supplies to 4 of us (online sellers), and the watch maker also sells to other people like some local dealer in US, Euro, etc, some online dealers may happen to meet these guys and these guy may sell a couple of watches to them, sorry for my English.

[Jawo]

Didn't you just say you are a "super newb"? Just joined today did you? You really seem to know a lot about Josh's business and history Mr. Newb.

I have been reading a lot of threads on replica-watches-guide. LOTS!!! I was taken by the blufakes conglomerate for $799 and had to make sure I made a wise decision this time around. I guess you can learn a lot about any forum by just using the search feature and reading. Let me tell you that despite this mishap, Andrew and Joshua are still light years ahead of many other replica businesses out there. The US based rep dealers probably have the worst reputation out there. Not all of them, but most. Probably why the FTC confirms that 90% of all internet crime occurs in the US.

[deltatahoe]

many kudos to angus for his response to this thread, as well as all of the work he has done (ie. hublot big bang and breitling chronomat evolution, 1:1 rubber strap, etc) and continues to do (ie. iwc costeau divers) in bringing us new top-quality reps, while allowing the forum to participate in making said reps better.

deltatahoe

[Daytona4me]

Thats not what I was getting at D4Me. I am saying that it would be one thing for our site to have rules for dealers, but it would be hard to charge these guys with any wrong doing here, because they don't post here. Can RWG dictate what they do on their private sites? I think not. Either we dictate that they post their watches here, or we must break the link to their sites.

My quote was of Steve G saying that admins condone the actions of the dealers not posting in their forums.

Andreww, I agree with you that dealers should activley post in their forums, we have had much discussion about it as staff, I'm sure it has went it's rounds in the admin section of RWG too.

I am laughing at Steve G's comment that we condone this and "are equally as guilty for adding and abetting these dishonest dealers and giving them the opportunity to screw us?" -LMAO

Well F*ck me with a pitch-fork or something.

I have never liked dealers setting up shop in a rep forum just to post their link to their website, or... having 4-10 month old pics of reps that are 1st generation when we are buying 4th, Ultimate, Supremo.. whatever the f*ck... ya know..

We on the same page dude!

[Sir-Lancelot]

This sucks.

I hope the problems get worked out to everyone's satisfaction.

We are all grown ups here, come clean, make amends, move on.

It would take huge big nutz to come clean in front of a lynch mob. I could respect that.

[Jawo]

I second that - awfully suspicious. Given the improper grammar and uncommon phrases, I'd be willing to bet they are from mainland China.

Improper grammer? Hmmm. Interesting. I am actually from Canada. Might explain the grammer and uncommon phrases thing. I only found this forum by a link referencing this thread from replica-watches-guide. I don't want to pretend to be expert in the rep world or rep world business. I am just expressing my opinions, experiences and thoughts. It's funny how you are to point fingers at people without knowing the facts. Ask the admins. My Ip is in Canada.

[Jawo]

Jawo: Don't mind them. So few can parse sentences in the Queen's English.

I'm not really offended at all. My experience is that "noobs" typically receive some grief from veteran forum members. For the most part, forum members are usually good people. I understand that the views and opinions expressed on this thread are solely for the protection of the members of this forum. I think the venting is necessary. Some pretty nasty things were said from this today, and I think that rep dealers really need to take this seriously. I don't like getting screwed anymore than anyone else.

[Guest TTK]

@HFC....

may be time to take a breather.

Edge, for whom I have had a lot of respect in the past, seems intent on a stirring up a lynch mob.

And thank God for him...if it was left to wishy washy numpties like you....all the members would be getting jacked over...!

All because of one ... can we, for the moment, call it an error? Just to give us time for reflection?

No.....despite your wishy washy attitude.....we can't and wont regard it as an ERROR.....( oh we made a mistake )....sorry guys......besides which it wasn't one ERROR......fer chrisakes....what are you smoking in your pipe.....crack.....it's a whole catalog of NOT errors...but DELIBERATE misleading LIES......PRICE FIXING....and not at a price that benefits members.....if I can undercut them on most items.....who is getting turned over....if I can't undercut them on certain items.....because I can't get access to them.....why is that....hmmm.....because they’re choking supply....and selling high...then there's the aspect of ELIMINATING their competition......applying pressure to Admin on both boards......!

Can any of you remember what the market was like before Joshua appeared? I certainly recognize several people from the old days in this thread.

Yes surprisingly enough.....I can.....but that's all water under the bridge....we're not painting over the cracks with nostalgia......we're talking about the here and now......so take off your rose coloured specs and get with the program....it's about the future....not the past....!

If the so-called "cartel" have a fault, it is that they have held prices down... and because of this have influenced other dealers to follow their lead.

What [censored]in' planet are you on....Planet Stupid obviously......how do you work out they are holding prices down.....and influencing others to cut their prices while they maintain high prices....!

Or would you prefer to pay Honpo's prices?

The lowering of Honpo's prices had nothing to do with J&A......it had to with the 187 which was the HOT item from Honpo at the time.....being made in a cheaper version......!

Service? Before Joshua appeared it just did not exist. But since Joshua started making good the inevitable DOA movements, dropped markers, loose hands, etc, et al.... look what happened. The other dealers followed suit.

I don't believe you've been reading the forums at all......service prior to Josh was exactly the same but better......River and Eddielee.....were the first guys to offer a TGA..( Total Guarantee Agreement )......replacing watches....lost in customs....DOA.....sending parts and replacements.....and they were doing that when Josh was dumping yellow pancakes in his Pampers......not to mention myself of course.....I've been doing it since the days of RWCC......put the question up here....has TTK ever charged you for a replacement watch......I know the answer....you obviously don't......!

When Andrew first appeared, he made a lot of mistakes. Not least of which was misrepresenting the movements inside his watches. He was naiive enough to put into print stuff that his dealer had told him. There was quite a bit of fuss over this... but no lynch-mob. Andrew set about putting his house in order and worked hard to overcome those early difficulties.

Yeah and he's put his house in so much order that he doesn't make mistakes now......he doesn't need to....he can just LIE and ignore the shitstorm.......whilst bozos like you jump to defend them......how much discount are you at now....has to be at least 50%...

But now Edge wants to see Andrew, Joshua, King and Angus driven out of business... over one error, in one watch?

No.....Edge doesn't want to see them put of business and doesn't have the power to do that....neither do the fora......but they do have the power to effect change.....for the betterment of the members...not for the dealers......that's where you've lost the plot in your sycophantic ramblings....!

Now let me ask you a question.....ARE YOUR EARS [censored]ING PAINTED ON......;COS YOU'RE NOT HEARING THE TRUTH......IT'S NOT ONE ERROR......!

It seems a little disproportionate.

What is disproportionate is the lack of a credible response from the people who SCAMMED the buyers of the B&R and AT.......what would have been proportionate ...would be a recall by the dealers in question.....and either a refund or offer of reduction to compensate those people who were SCAMMED......to date that has not been forthcoming....as has an explanation of their mistake.....all we've seen is BS about costs and doing the members a favour by bringing this watch to the board.....doesn't seem to matter to you and many others that they LIED.....they didn't come to the board and EXPLAIN that there was a problem in obtaining the 2892 movement......the members here are very forgiving......and I believe that they would have continued to support their dealer.....but NO.....they may have [censored]ed up with the factory......but they were prepared to let their customers PAY for THEIR mistake....as Kirk Douglas said to Foster Brooks in Cactus Jack......'I LIED'....!

I'm not saying that nothing should be done. But I think that the people involved should be given the chance to put their case - and if necessary, put their respective house in order - before we let the lynch-mob loose.

The people involved have ALREADY been given their opportunity and have declined to do so......on a number of occasions...not least the LWL thread which broke the truth.......all they do is defend their action with incredible....yes....incredible arrogance.......PLUS they were already advised to put their house in order.......they haven't done so.......this is no lynch mob....it's a groundswell of opinion by the members that they won't tolerate it.

In my opinion, Andrew was ill-advised to enter this thread when he did - and I certainly don't blame the others for not wishing to join in until the emotion and the rhetoric die down.

Andrew is a big hairy arsed boy.....big enough and ugly enough to deal with this situation....which is of HIS own creating....if he hadn't lied....WE wouldn't be having this discussion.........so he doesn't need you as his pro bono defender......he's obviously well advised in taking folding green.......suddenly everybody wants to plead 'cultural differences'......there are no [censored]in' cultural differences when he's downloading your money into the bank......!

I have to declare an interest. I have been dealing with Joshua since he started his business. I was one of his first customers. I have bought several watches from him since. In every case I have been delighted with every aspect of the transactions.

Well bully for you...but this isn't about YOU.....it's about the members and the aspect of being LIED to and MANIPULATED by the very people that you're happy to lie down with......what's that itch...quelle surprise....it's a flea.....!

I have a B&R. From Joshua. I had one of the first... perhaps the very first, of the PVD models. No - I haven't a clue what movement it has inside. Yes - it keeps perfect time... to COSC standard. Am I about to open it up to see if I have been "ripped-off"?

Of course not.

Would I deal with Joshua again?

Certainly - without hesitation.

Blissful ignorance is an exalted state......keep smoking your crack pipe......you won't see the cockroaches.....it's your prerogative to buy from whomsoever you please........but stop proselytizing on behalf of the LIAR....!

Edited March 29, 2007 by TTK