MAHLER Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 I have some doubts... if I told you that a very "known" dealer has sold me for $180 an A7750 Breitling Bentley GT White (new case back) ... that is sold to $300... what would you think on the prices ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted June 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 I have some doubts... if I told you that a very "known" dealer has sold me for $180 an A7750 Breitling Bentley GT White (new case back) ... that is sold to $300... what would you think on the prices ? I would think he had too much stock and was selling at cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWATCH Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 I have some doubts... if I told you that a very "known" dealer has sold me for $180 an A7750 Breitling Bentley GT White (new case back) ... that is sold to $300... what would you think on the prices ? I dunno. I probably would think you got a pretty good deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAHLER Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 I would think he had too much stock and was selling at cost. perhaps... but would need answer to the question... which is the cost? ... if it's true that nothing is given ... ops ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted June 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 perhaps... but would need answer to the question... which is the cost? ... if it's true that nothing is given ... ops ... It doesn't matter. A dealer is in this for money and they're entitled to a fair profit (up to 40% of retail is fair in most retail industries) no matter what we think. To be honest though, a SS Bentley isn't a $300 rep: It's a $230 rep. I doubt a smaller dealer can get desirable 7750-based reps at under $180 day in, day out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAHLER Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 To be honest though, a SS Bentley isn't a $300 rep: It's a $230 rep. Andrew = $298 Joshua = $298 PT = Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pubus Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 that was on RWI. LINK The majority declares to earn between 75000 and 150000 dollars per year. Don't know if that concerns the singles or the couples' revenue. Not sure if that reflects reality, at least not mine. Thanks, thats why I couldnt find this topic here Its nice to see how wealthy some of these guys are And still trolling about high priced super reps. I know that my yearly income cannot allow me to carry a 600+ usd rep, but I some one makes 10K per month? Oh, c'mon.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted June 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Silix = $250 Ok, it's a $250 rep. So you got $70 or 28% off ... It's good, but it's not earth-shattering. Does the dealer do this price on all reps or just returns/overstock? Besides, I fail to see what any of this has to do with SuperReps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAHLER Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Besides, I fail to see what any of this has to do with SuperReps. perhaps because the superrepses are only replicas with AR, with some care but nothing more ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diver_dylan Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Once all of the better reps shoot up to over $300-$350, I check out of the game. Which looks like is gonna happen soon. Oh well, it was a good ride. I can see how someone could justify $750 for a V7750 watch, but thats it. I often times have $250ish play money sitting around...but $750? Thats not play money. Instead of buying 4 reps a year, Ill buy 1 gen. And not only will they hold their value, but some may even appreciate. Oh well, D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 Agreed. I would leave the hobby as quickly as I joined it last december. And live with my patiently aquired collection, thinking about "good old time", when reps were affordable, and not a source of frustration. Who knows, reps will maybe become so expensive that we'll once find reps' reps !!! :thumbsupsmileyanim: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratedzeus Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 It doesn't matter. A dealer is in this for money and they're entitled to a fair profit (up to 40% of retail is fair in most retail industries) no matter what we think. To be honest though, a SS Bentley isn't a $300 rep: It's a $230 rep. I doubt a smaller dealer can get desirable 7750-based reps at under $180 day in, day out. Ordered a Navitimer recently for 185$ shipped .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Unfortunately,...People are going to buy what they want, from who they want... Look what happened when several traders were caught and exposed selling fake eta's..... Nothing - Nada - like it never happened... There is no unity except with a core of people... the rest are simply here to drive to the window,.. to take a quick glance at the menu,.. and pull the trigger,.. All this talking we are doing is so much static to them,.. they tune it out,.. and some even go so far as to post threads about Not Disturbing their blissful ignorance.... Hmmm, that reminds me of a scene in Terminator 3 Seriously though, I agree entirely with what you've said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Personally now that the price of the Super Rep's has basically been accepted I doubt that we will see many non-Asian new releases for under $400. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkerouac Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 I am late to this thread, but as I play catchup I still haven't seen anybody really nail what I consider the number one problem that we face today ---> ourselves. We pay for the watches, we obsess about every last detail, we boast about the mods such as date wheels, lume, bezels, etc that we paid for. And in the process we are basically yelling at the top of our lungs that we will pay whatever the dealer wants for the next really, really special rep. So the dealers asked us, "Hey, what do you think of this new upcoming model?" Move the logo, darken the font, etc. and etc. we give them our feedback, which they incorporate, and in the process we get our collective juices going to the point that we cannot do anything but pay for the latest Evo or Big Bang or Cousteau or whatever. The dealers have us by the balls because we handed our balls over on a silver platter. We're drooling over the next opportunity to fork over our money, so charge whatever you want and we will pay. I have an Evo, and I have an Inge (with a lovely Lello date wheel that my local watchmaker charged $70 to install!), so I am not a pure virgin in this "ultimate" premium rep process. But when tempted by the Cousteau or most of these other super reps I really try to remind myself that 1) I got into this sport in part because gens are too expensive, and 2) I like variety. Well, after a few years I have variety. Perhaps I don't have all the reps that would be at the top of my shopping list if I was starting out today, but I have quite a few extremely nice watches that I struggle to give wrist time to. So I'm, stepping back from the expensive ultimates and hoping that my fellow collectors do the same. If they do, the prices will come down to levels we feel more comfortable with. And the sad fact is, I will probably end up spending more money on reps than if prices continue to go up and up and up and ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elwopo Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 I still haven't seen anybody really nail what I consider the number one problem that we face today ---> ourselves. We pay for the watches, we obsess about every last detail, we boast about the mods such as date wheels, lume, bezels, etc that we paid for. And in the process we are basically yelling at the top of our lungs that we will pay whatever the dealer wants for the next really, really special rep. The dealers have us by the balls because we handed our balls over on a silver platter. We're drooling over the next opportunity to fork over our money, so charge whatever you want and we will pay. So I'm, stepping back from the expensive ultimates and hoping that my fellow collectors do the same. If they do, the prices will come down to levels we feel more comfortable with. And the sad fact is, I will probably end up spending more money on reps than if prices continue to go up and up and up and ...... As with some other comments made in this thread....absolute genius!!! Exactly right. They have our balls because we handed them over willingly, gleefully, and as fast as humanly possible. We buy into optimism based on hype that we create. We really want to believe that THIS (insert new model here) is the ONE that will set new standards. Then the messages of unrealized expectations come. It happens every time.....and we still continue the cycle. The thing that I've been curious about for a while is.....where did this ridiculous term "super rep" originate? It's asinine. We mock the scam sites and point out the true details and meaning of "swiss"....yet we allow this arbitrary designation to gain more and more credibility. I think we are victims of our own hype....and the dealers (rightfully so) are laughing their collective a$$es off over it and raising prices to test the waters. Very similar to oil companies for example.....prices rise....we complain.......but we still pay. All they have to do is laugh and make larger bank deposits. "Super" reps?....Super scams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepsea Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 (edited) Old phase: there is no %100 rep... and there won't be... Hublots. yeah good looking watches. for nearly $400... but with an asian movement... nah. no way. $800 for swiss movt is another issue. but I wouldn't give that either... come on guys, we are talking about nearly a grant. No matter how good it is, you are getting ONLY a replica! About IWC. I honestly gave $260 for an Inge with Swiss ETA movt and I think it is a fair price but I'll never give $370 to a Cousteau with an Asian movt. Never ever. Another issue. I don't give a [censored] about the retail price of a gen. Gen Panerai 249 is sold for $10k in the market. SS watch with an unitas movement and a plexiglass crystal and $10k --> Amazing! but I would never give $400-500 for a poifect 249... my .02 Ps: and something personal... after getting 2 or 3 more replicas. I'm finished. I'll head to the gens. Edited June 15, 2007 by deepsea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jawo Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 There is no question that super reps are getting more expensive. It is for sure a definite that people are willing to spend the big bucks to get them. I have a few super reps in my collection and know for sure that it will be a matter of time before I see problems with them. Thank god for guys like The Zigmeister that give our reps a chance at longevity. His servicing price is very reasonable in comparison with the going rates. I just bought a Swiss Valjoux 7750 movement on Ebay for $160. The Zigmeister will do a servicing and transplant to my IWC Cousteau Diver in July. I see no reason why this rep won't last 5-10 years. I am trying to get more of these movements for my other reps like the HBB and CMP Chrono. For those of you that think that these reps will be around for sale in the next 5 years might be overzealous. Virtually the whole rest of the world is putting heavy pressure against China to stop copyright infringement. I guess only time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRG Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 I am late to this thread, but as I play catchup I still haven't seen anybody really nail what I consider the number one problem that we face today ---> ourselves. We pay for the watches, we obsess about every last detail, we boast about the mods such as date wheels, lume, bezels, etc that we paid for. And in the process we are basically yelling at the top of our lungs that we will pay whatever the dealer wants for the next really, really special rep. So the dealers asked us, "Hey, what do you think of this new upcoming model?" Move the logo, darken the font, etc. and etc. we give them our feedback, which they incorporate, and in the process we get our collective juices going to the point that we cannot do anything but pay for the latest Evo or Big Bang or Cousteau or whatever. The dealers have us by the balls because we handed our balls over on a silver platter. We're drooling over the next opportunity to fork over our money, so charge whatever you want and we will pay. I have an Evo, and I have an Inge (with a lovely Lello date wheel that my local watchmaker charged $70 to install!), so I am not a pure virgin in this "ultimate" premium rep process. But when tempted by the Cousteau or most of these other super reps I really try to remind myself that 1) I got into this sport in part because gens are too expensive, and 2) I like variety. Well, after a few years I have variety. Perhaps I don't have all the reps that would be at the top of my shopping list if I was starting out today, but I have quite a few extremely nice watches that I struggle to give wrist time to. So I'm, stepping back from the expensive ultimates and hoping that my fellow collectors do the same. If they do, the prices will come down to levels we feel more comfortable with. And the sad fact is, I will probably end up spending more money on reps than if prices continue to go up and up and up and ...... Spot on IMHO. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. I've voted 'no' to them with my wallet and will buy gens over $400 reps even if it takes longer to achieve the same goal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratedzeus Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 139$ including the 28$ EMS shipping cost for the asian SFSO from Ruby... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Actually I think the cost of the gen is incredibly relevant. When people say I am not going to buy a $400 Asian rep of the Cousteau but a gen instead which gen are you referring to? Are you planning on outlaying $7,000 for the gen or are you going to buy a $1,000 gen which bears no resemblance to the watch you originally wanted? I am very happy with my Cousteau as it functioned perfectly out of the box. In spite of that I am going to the next step and doing relume and a movement swap. I will be into it for close to $700. So for 10% of the cost of a gen (okay maybe 12%) I will have a properly serviced fairly accurate rep which I will enjoy and happily wear anywhere (except an AD, of course). I know there are people here who can afford the gens but play with reps as a hobby but, by and large, I don't think you ended up here to buy a $7,000 gen. And yes, I guess we set ourselves up but then again had you ever seen reps of the various new brands before these price increases? I know Asian based reps are infuriating but this trend will only increase. ETA movements other than the most basic automatic workhorses which the Asian movements copy flawlessly are only getting harder to get. And wait until you see the new movements they are working on to duplicate proprietary movements. Here are suggestions: either make more money, buy fewer reps or hope they get cheaper in the second hand market. I for one think we are in the golden age of reps. Super reps, whatever that means, have been around for quite a while. MBW or equivalents are readily available. New reps come out every week. Buy what you can afford/want and enjoy the ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brook0 Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 The thing I just can not understand is why can invicta croton ...etc. make a quality watch and sell it for $100.00 with a lifetime warr(croton) and a $700.00 rep is a piece of [censored]? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsons Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Interesting read, gents. I would spend $700 for a rep only if it were a franken crammed with OEM parts or it had a ETA 7753. I have close to this invested in a single rep but most of the cost was attributable to some rather rare gen parts and their installation. I browse TZ and the Bay on a regular basis searching for hidden gems and for this kind of cabbage, there are some very high quality & interesting alternatives. As to the label "super reps", the new models may looks terrific but I recall the day when in this price range and below we had access to some very fine pieces with an authentic ETA 2893, 7750 and 7753.....the real super reps, IMO. We're talking very high quality movements here than can last a lifetime with proper care. To pay the current escalated prices for watches with questionable quality movements & QC is something that I'll leave for others to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geo1nah2a Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 (edited) And wait until you see the new movements they are working on to duplicate proprietary movements. Here are suggestions: either make more money, buy fewer reps or hope they get cheaper in the second hand market. Give me the tweezers, I will make him tell us more on this! Do tell about the propietary movements!! I would pay HBB or IWC CD money for a iwc big pilot with real 8 days reserve. Is there a preorder list somewhere? Do tell!! Or is it an angelus sf240??!!!! Do tell or I'll cast the spell of the asian 7750 slipping hour hand on all your watches! Edited June 15, 2007 by geo1nah2a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 J- I understand the point of view and you can still do that with MBW's, DW's etc. In fact MBW's are now cheaper. But it is a much larger world now with greater variety available and that is a good thing. We have finally moved out of the good reps only available for watches of $4,000 or less (vintage Rolex exception). To have the opportunity to buy a rep of a $6,000 Cousteau or $10,000 HBB Mellow Yellow is a fabulous opportunity (if it is something you want of course). And the aesthetics are good enough that it makes ,modifying well worthwhile if you want to make it a lifelong keeper. No heirloom - but you didn't spend $10,000 either. On the vintages I do want to build a real collection but I am still waiting for 42mm and 44mm non-manual wind watches to become vintage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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