Read a true story about JOE and tell all your friends !

[Chronus]

Nevertheless, he should make an effort to communicate with people whose watches are in his possession and give them some idea of where they stand. If the board administrators can communicate this to him, it would be very helpful.

Maybe someone who has regular phone contact with him, or one of the mods from the other board would be able to find out. I've never dialled his number, and it would be rude of me to do so, especially in this instance.

Hope everything will be made clear, and everyone knows what they let themselves in for next time, so they don't feel ripped off.

[Thor]

Maybe someone who has regular phone contact with him, or one of the mods from the other board would be able to find out. I've never dialled his number, and it would be rude of me to do so, especially in this instance.

Hope everything will be made clear, and everyone knows what they let themselves in for next time, so they don't feel ripped off.

A lot members have posted already that they have tried to call him without success... hope the dust clears soon...

[vmena]

Some points vmena.

1 You comment on "dozens of threads"- ( just 2) Think you mean posts. But lets not be pedantic.

Sure, only one posted that he had been scammed, and that is open to interpretation, but there are a number of people currently seeking answers as to the whereabouts of their property.

2. I sincerely hope you are not referring to me being " not imparcials".

"the rest here is complaining about Joe just because he charges for his work (much or few dollars is just a matter of self understanding" Yes - Off topic.

And finally I see that you also have a watch MIA....

The reasons this forum has evolved, is to try to protect potential buyers from being ripped off.

If we don't use this place to post our concerns and problems, no one would ever know that a problem may exist.

Offshore

Sorry for my mistake. Yes, I meant posts.

Only one saying he's scamed. And posting "We have to stop this SCAM" as post topic. Some months a go, this title surely was atleast put under discusion.

Yes, people is complaining because te Joe's prices. Com'n! I may not agree with his prices, but he published them and you can choose. Stop crying, please.

I'm waiting for a watch also. And I made this public to make people understand than even you may part of the affected group, you can also wait to hear the other side of the history before to "sentence". Tell me whatever you want, but this is so and if not, bad bad.

Sure we have to use this place to post issues and problems. But some minimum courtesy rules should be followed.

It's quite surprising that none had balls enouthg to say somethin that was true. Why? Don't tell me because complaining on a trusted member is dangereous, you can have problems, etc. Ha ha. And now? What's different? I'll tell you. The difference is that it's easy [censored] on any one when you have other people supporting you.

Sorry, but this is not the fair way I expected from this forum. And now, don't mind about the flame on me. Let's see how many are able to respect one single opinion or I need some other supporting me.

I'm not a special friend of Joe. just a customer. But I would defend any other in he same situation. Some of you have forgotten a while a go when you defended other RGW1 members that were complained by lot of members and then some of you said: " wait, we need to know both parts of history". Well said then. I don't know what's the difference today (@offshore, don't take this personal. Not at all. Just using your post to develop my answer).

[gpuck]

Hate to say it but this sounds very much like the way the RWG debacle got started. Lack of communication is a terrible business practice. I think it is a great idea to set things right now instead of waiting for months and letting things get more out of hand. Joe needs to reply or things will spiral down hill faster than Barry Bonds career!!!

Good luck to everyone waiting,

Gpuck

[Bigdoggy]

Sorry for my mistake. Yes, I meant posts.

Capitalism defined:

The distribution of goods and/or services where pricing is determined by competition in a free marketplace.

Certain rules apply:

1. Supply & demand. It doesn’t matter if it’s goods or services – high demand – low supply = high prices. Low demand – high supply = low prices. In the final analysis, A COMPETITIVE MARKETPLACE determines pricing. You will be charged, in the long run, WHAT YOU, THE CUSTOMERS IN THE MARKETPLACE, are willing to pay.

2. Long term survival is dependent on the delivery of a GOOD product/service – no matter what its price. Nothing kills a business faster than poor service coupled with bad word of mouth.

3. The general public is pretty forgiving of violations of rule 2, if the business makes a

timely, sincere, and reasonable effort to correct its mistakes.

These basics rules of economics apply not only to Joe, but to everyone who offers a

product or service to the public.

Time will tell – we shall see!!!!!!!!

Edited May 15, 2006 by Bigdoggy

[vmena]

@bigdoggy: fully agre with you.

[BenWaaaaah]

A lot members have posted already that they have tried to call him without success... hope the dust clears soon...

I hope so - he's had two of mine since March...

[Guest overboosted]

March?

March?

He's had my 6263 since SEPTEMBER!!!!

I do know I will get it back sometime,,,he is a busy guy that has had horrible luck with health lately.

[V]

I really don't know how you accept so long delivery times...

[Watchmeister]

I suspect they didn't know the delivery timing when they sent their watches.

At this point people should be focused on facts and not opinions. There is no point in having folks who have not done business with Joe posting opinions. There are some pretty simple questions which forum members who have had recent transactions with Joe should answer:

If the work has been completed are you satisfied with the work?

If you are still waiting, how long has it been and have you been able to contact him?

I still have no sense (after six pages of postings) how many watches are with Joe waiting to be repaired and, other than Namor and a couple of others, how many people have had a bad experience on the mods or the repairs they received.

IMHO, anyone who is or has been involved with transactions with Joe and is reading this loop and not posting their own experience is not doing justice to other forum members. Facts are facts. Opinions are not helpful at this point.

[Bigdoggy]

Overboosted,

How did he communicate during this long stretch of time and what excuse did he offer

relative to why it is taking so long?

He had my 1680 for about a month - told me that he had 70/100 ahead of me and that he would

PM me when he started. He did exactly that and called when he started on the watch. I received it

about a week after he called. We communicated by phone several times. I was VERY please with the

results!!!

If you read all the posts in this topic, it reminds me of a giant puzzle - missing several

pieces.

I hope that you get your 6263 back!!!!!

Edited May 15, 2006 by Bigdoggy

[Bigdoggy]

I suspect they didn't know the delivery timing when they sent their watches.

At this point people should be focused on facts and not opinions. There is no point in having folks who have not done business with Joe posting opinions. There are some pretty simple questions which forum members who have had recent transactions with Joe should answer:

If the work has been completed are you satisfied with the work?

If you are still waiting, how long has it been and have you been able to contact him?

I still have no sense (after six pages of postings) how many watches are with Joe waiting to be repaired and, other than Namor and a couple of others, how many people have had a bad experience on the mods or the repairs they received.

IMHO, anyone who is or has been involved with transactions with Joe and is reading this loop and not posting their own experience is not doing justice to other forum members. Facts are facts. Opinions are not helpful at this point.

WELL SAID Kruzer00

[HighDef]

I sent Joe two watches back in September. One has a misaligned datewheel and another has a winding rotor that came off. After a few reminder PMs and a phone call about me seeing members getting thier watches back, I finally got it back this tail end of February. When I opened the package I found out that one has still the same problem(bad winding rotor). I tried opening the case back to no avail. I called him about it, and he told me to send it back it is an easy fix for him if might have came off again in transit and he will ship it back the to me the next day he recieve the watch. It is almost three months now and still no watch.

[seank1]

Overboosted,

How did he communicate during this long stretch of time and what excuse did he offer

relative to why it is taking so long?

He had my 1680 for about a month - told me that he had 70/100 ahead of me and that he would

PM me when he started. He did exactly that and called when he started on the watch. I received it

about a week after he called. We communicated by phone several times. I was VERY please with the

results!!!

If you read all the posts in this topic, it reminds me of a giant puzzle - missing several

pieces.

I hope that you get your 6263 back!!!!!

I think that most people have been happy with joes performance. But I'm starting to see an underlying rumbling of maybe people not saying they were dissapointed for fear of getting their ass reddened by some of the members.

Sean K

[vmena]

I suspect they didn't know the delivery timing when they sent their watches.

At this point people should be focused on facts and not opinions. There is no point in having folks who have not done business with Joe posting opinions. There are some pretty simple questions which forum members who have had recent transactions with Joe should answer:

If the work has been completed are you satisfied with the work?

If you are still waiting, how long has it been and have you been able to contact him?

I still have no sense (after six pages of postings) how many watches are with Joe waiting to be repaired and, other than Namor and a couple of others, how many people have had a bad experience on the mods or the repairs they received.

IMHO, anyone who is or has been involved with transactions with Joe and is reading this loop and not posting their own experience is not doing justice to other forum members. Facts are facts. Opinions are not helpful at this point.

Nice to have some common sense back. Thanks @kruzer00. Let's start with facts:

I've had two transactions with Joe:

First, whole package on a DJ ladies TT and I was pretty pleased. I had some issue with King and he helped me to solve it. I was with him on the phone several times. He even gave me his mobile phone 'cause he was out of home. Many mails, all of them aswered.

In the mean time before the second try, I've contacted him many times with questions about dealers, watchs, doubts about buying on e watch or another, and always he was kind and respond promptly.

Second try, I sent him my EL's Expl I with some water inside to check movement and try to waterproof it as much as possible. it was End of nov 2005. Some troubles to arrive to destination (as stated by Joe; post office in origin and him had some misalignment on arriving date). Ok. he told me his colleague for movements was a bit overloaded and it was going to take a couple of weeks to do movement (I wanted to tune it a bit) and another week (more or less) to finish it. Last contact with him was end of April, and it was suposed the watc to be ready to be sent to me.

In both cases, Joe never asked me to send any money in advance. I paid when I wanted.

As you can see, i have a 50% of success with him, and still wait this last try had a nice ending. If at last I never see my watch back... I will buy another !!! Better take things slowly. I did learn this after buying my first rep from Paul in the middle of the crazy sale I has to wait for 4 months!!!

Keep save and healthy my friends!

[ubiquitous]

If you are still waiting, how long has it been and have you been able to contact him?

Since Feb of this year for me. I sent him my AP Royal Oak to brush the bezel and eliminate the gold screws. Granted, I know this isn't exactly a standard request for a modification, so some R&D time is to be expected as the procedures for carrying out such work has to be developed, etc. Do I think 4 months is excessive? For this type of work... I don't know. The scope of the project was beyond my means (plating the bezel screws with WG, etc), which is why I sent it out in the first place. To be honest, I've kinda forgotten about it in the past few months. Out of sight, out of mind I suppose.

I would like to add- This is the first and only watch I've sent off for mods since a year ago when I was sending my watches to Base for mod work. The experience from that situation with Bryan is what primarily motivated me to learn how to do my own mods. I don't particularly like to send my watches out, and try to avoid doing so where ever possible. However, there are some instances where there are things that I just don't have the time to do myself, and there are other things that are just beyond my capabilities (i.e. sending Ziggy watches to be overhauled).

[BenWaaaaah]

I suspect they didn't know the delivery timing when they sent their watches.

At this point people should be focused on facts and not opinions. There is no point in having folks who have not done business with Joe posting opinions. There are some pretty simple questions which forum members who have had recent transactions with Joe should answer:

If the work has been completed are you satisfied with the work?

If you are still waiting, how long has it been and have you been able to contact him?

I still have no sense (after six pages of postings) how many watches are with Joe waiting to be repaired and, other than Namor and a couple of others, how many people have had a bad experience on the mods or the repairs they received.

IMHO, anyone who is or has been involved with transactions with Joe and is reading this loop and not posting their own experience is not doing justice to other forum members. Facts are facts. Opinions are not helpful at this point.

I'd guess that he has over 100 watches to work on right now. He told me he had 50 packages back in April he hadn't even opened yet. I was told I'd get the watch back in a couple weeks. I cannot believe that all these people who had sent their watches and didn't get them back within five or six weeks didn't speak up. I guess because he's godlike to many on here...

I sent him a 2005 Daytona after having it 1 week because the minute hand caught on the subdials. I thought he could fix that and the cgs for me. And I sent a Comex that had a cracked crystal. In the beginning there was a good comunication. Then, nothing.

I hope I get these back...

Edited May 15, 2006 by BenWaaaaah

[namor]

Again some points from me:

As you see I am here. I started this Thread yesterday and stood online till early morning today.

I am tired as hell and even from work I responded. Now back home I'm here again.

This is because I KNOW that I chose a hard title and feel responsible for this.

Because of this I answered all your questions, added more details, argued and communicated with you all.

Some things to clear up:

- I never complained about the price. He told me the price and I agreed. The problem is that I didn't receive the value for my money which I paid for !

STOP THIS SCAM ! Some of you think I do exagerate this ?

What is Scam ? What is a Scammer ?

Why is bestswiss.com a scam-site ? Why are the people working there scammers ?

Easy: it's not the point that they rip you off with nothing in your hands !

The point is you do not get that watch you did pay for ! You pay for sapphire-crystal and swiss movement - and receive a cheap asian version.

Additionally you get no service - no cash back - no refund - no other watch. And sometimes you can wait for weeks or months till you receive anything.

ALL THAT is happening here !!!

Come on guys, just read the recent postings ! There are more and more people coming out with issues.

You won't believe how wide this trouble is spreading ! There are many, many members here with issues !

Possible reasons why they not come out:

1) They fear being grilled here.

Me not more - as I stated before I am here, I made a clear Thread, I have pictures, I some very reputable members are involved meanwhile telling about issues too.

I have all emails, I have the watch, I have solid arguments and do debate with you with respect !

2) Some people working on watches cannot tell the truth - cause it would look like they are just hunting for Joes customers.

3) Some members told and told you all again - and get grilled for that. Now they are really fed up.

4) Some of you have your watches sitting at Joe for months now - you are afraid to never see them back again if you mess with him agreeing to my Thread.

...? Perhaps many more points - these are just a few which came into my mind now.

Believe me. Not all of you has told everything you know. And some of you still did not decide to come out with your issues.

This is what I know, from PMs, from eMails, phone calls and so on.

I DEFINETALY won't come out with names here - everyone of you have to decide for your own !

[HighDef]

@Namor,

With all due respect, I too is a victim of this, but I cannot consider Joe's action as a scam. I do not see any intent by this person to defraud us. Those scam sites??? yes full intent is there. It is part of thier set plan to lure potential customers offering top of the line pieces and send them POS when they get the money. I see in Joe's case as a bad bussiness management, your case is a very good example. This goes to show that his QA on watches he work on is just as bad as our CN rep manufacuturers.

[yodaddynukka]

im glad i havent sent my 6265 to him. the reason why i would have chosen joe before anyone else is strictly because he is based out of USA. so now who do us americans have to turn to for mods???

[HighDef]

im glad i havent sent my 6265 to him. the reason why i would have chosen joe before anyone else is strictly because he is based out of USA. so now who do us americans have to turn to for mods???

Send it to me. I am in the US .Below is a sample of my masterpiece and I am cheap.

[fitch]

wouldn't it be better to try and get a response from Joe before this thread goes on and on? I assume he would like to tell his side of the story..

[namor]

@HighDef

yes, I agree partially to your thoughts. @all: Please do not get my example wrong !

I agree with HighDef - I don't really think his only intention is to scam people.

But he seems to be very thirsty for our wallets. You realize that reading his price list and looking at the fact he accepted watches even when having work for months...

Facts are Facts. My watch is screwed, my money is away.

Many of your watches aren't back on your wrist since months.

Telling nothing about his intentions - this naked facts are scam.

[Tribal]

Some more facts:

Example 1:

Did you ever had a genuine Submariner in Hands ?

So why are you so happy when you receive your Sub from Joe and turn the bezel ?

Let me tell you: I had several Genuines in my hands - the CN-Case Submariners are feeling and sounding completely off !

You are just happy because it feels solid and everyone tells you Joe is the man.

Example 2:

Did you send your Watch to Joe because it leaked ? No ? You just buy the whole package including watertesting, hm ? So what do you know really about your watch ? Most of the watches are resistant enough for a shower, he has to do nothing with them.

Did you read the issues with my watch which I got from him ? It's very clear that he NEVER touched a drop of water to this watch - but i paid for watertesting !

Example 3:

Did you really see the crown-guards of a genuine ? Obviously not. You couldn't - otherwise no one of you would be so pleased.

The CGs Joe does are miles away from the real thing.

Example 4:

Did you had your watch in your hands before sending to Joe ? Or did you ordered it to be directly sent to him or should he purchase it for you ?

Hey, listen. When I buy a watch - I see it's pictures first. I like it. I search for prices and ask my prefered dealers.

When I receive it - the watch is ALWAYS MUCH MORE BEAUTIFUL than any pictures can show it.

What I want to say: When you receive the watch from Joe - and never had it in your hands before - IT'S ABSOLUTELY NORMAL to be impressed ! You've never seen that thing live before !

It's not just about the faults on my watch - it's about useless stuff, about easy work for BIG prices. It's about work which is paid - but never done. It's about a hype which is just wrong.

You are confident with your Sub ? Come on, I officially invite you to a beer and show you a genuine one. Of course a genuine is a genuine - but you will see for yourself quickly that all the things Joe is telling us "he is modelling the watch, sitting in front of a genuine..." is totally [censored].

A TW-Best Submariner for example has a completely different bezel spring-system and really sounds and feels like a genuine. The new Subs have really good CGs - right out the factory.

SHOW ME SOME WATCHES from Joe with CGs like genuine. You think CGs like genuine aren't possible ? Why not ? Here is a picture of a genuine:

I've done that work to 3 watches now - and many other members too - compare this picture with the one in my post i received from Joe.

Man,

i can understand that you are [censored] off........

I`'ve heard about the services from Joe and his high prices before on old RWG....

I think take it in your hand,i know its not possible to make every work on your watch....

But a lot of Mods you can do by your self...

There are a lot of great tutorials from The Zigmeister,Palp,Ubi and other members to do it right....

I will never pay so much money for mods.....

Okay good work must be payed,but so high?

I think not....

By the way

That are selfmade CG's... and the best it cost nothing

RG Tribal

P:S: your CG's are nearly perfect......

Edited May 15, 2006 by Tribal

[Chronus]

But he seems to be very thirsty for our wallets.

Not to be facetious, but I think he is as addicted to buying watches as we all are.

I await his reply when he is around.