fishgodeep Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 Yes, that's a very valid point about corporate alliances. The key difference here, is if someone is selling a specific phone, then they are actually selling the specific phone. They are not selling display 'blank' with blinking lights inside it. They are selling a specific product, as advertized. To do otherwise, would you not agree, is highly dishonest, not to mention illegal? This is my isue with A&J, as things like the B&R Fiasco revealed. They are advertising Product X to have movement A, but instead, it has movement B. How is that honest? As mentioned above, someone's dad got ripped off over a cheaper replacement, and not getting re-funded the difference. Again, how is that honest? Teejay, As I have said ... yes - if products are being mis-sold that is wrong and that needs to be put right. Getting shortchanged on a refund is also wrong....and also needs to be put right.....dealers with respect and honour please take note and action.Personally - everything I have bought has been correct or exchanged without fail ...but I have never bought a B&R and have always acted as a gentleman. I think you would have far more success if you took this offline and up with the dealer direct. Do you know what you would accept to resolve your personal disatisfaction in this case? Just I believe your attempts to "change the rep world" will only leave you disatisfied....:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 It's been said before, but not enough: you need to factor in the depreciation of the dollar over the last 18-24 months and the corresponding rise of everything else - including the price of shipping and movements. Not very long ago, I used to pay a little over $500.00 for a R/T ticket to Los Angeles; today the same ticket is over than one thousand dollars - and rising. It pisses me off, but so does the relentless march of time: what's for sure is that none of us are going to get any younger, and prices any cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 however, w/ regard to price fixing, what about this possibility: You're applying legitimate western business mentality to a problem that's firmly grounded in Chinese counterfeiting business philosophy. Anyone that has worked with eastern suppliers (Clive, fancy commenting?) will tell you: You go into a deal without an understanding of how they do business, you're going to come out with your [censored] in your hands and a big bag full of hollow promises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pabra Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 And in that time I have purchased over 50 watches from several dealers condenscending YEARS worth of experiences into those self-same 2 months; posted to the best of my limited ability to make this forum a better place; and kept my whinging and personal attacks to a minimum. From what I can see, this is much more than you have done in this one thread alone, so I'll thank you to keep your ad-hominen attacks to yourself. If not, please avoid me in future. I believe that it would fit as a sub-category of ad hominem; argumentum ad personam is a part of ad hominem if not the essence of that fallacy. So calling a person eg. noob/newbie, belittling them to make their argument/position/persona inferior, based on their miniscule/large post count is indeed ad hominem. Oh snap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 Teejay, As I have said ... yes - if products are being mis-sold that is wrong and that needs to be put right. Getting shortchanged on a refund is also wrong....and also needs to be put right.....dealers with respect and honour please take note and action.Personally - everything I have bought has been correct or exchanged without fail ...but I have never bought a B&R and have always acted as a gentleman. I think you would have far more success if you took this offline and up with the dealer direct. Do you know what you would accept to resolve your personal disatisfaction in this case? Just I believe your attempts to "change the rep world" will only leave you disatisfied....:-) Fish, My issue is pretty much solely the business practices. I do not agree with price fixing or increases, unless that increase genuinely reflects difficulties associated with production. I have no personal issue with either of the dealers in question as I have never purchassed anything from them. From what I have read, I would never want to buy anything from either of them, and am, like a few others, trying to bring this issue to the attention of people so more people are aware of it. If any new dealers were to behave as A&J have, they would be banned, yet, for some reason, known only to Admin, they are allowed to remain, where they continue to 'shoot fish in the barrell'. As V pointed out above, my interest is solely for the betterment of the forum, and the community of its members. I have no personal stakes involved whatsoever. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 I believe that it would fit as a sub-category of ad hominem; argumentum ad personam is a part of ad hominem if not the essence of that fallacy. So calling a person eg. noob/newbie, belittling them to make their argument/position/persona inferior, based on their miniscule/large post count is indeed ad hominem. Oh snap... I'm going to avoid the inference, and simply say this: When someone is giving out potentially damning information to a board, THEN their status is key, as in any argument the added weight of being a known quantity becomes very important. You always trust those you know better than those you don't -- which includes myself (edit: I wouldn't expect to be trusted over, say, Pugwash, or Clive, i.e.). Why? Because the person with a beef could well be someone with an axe to grind, or God forbid, a regular poster with a second ID hiding behind it to slander people because they're a coward. I have an almost photographic memory, but I admit, I don't even remember who it was that quoted Jos Nana (who I see is now reading this thread...and Trusty) as having written that in an email. But putting on my Historian cap, I need proof not second-hand info. Might not change my opinion, but facts are facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 I have an almost photographic memory, but I admit, I don't even remember who it was that quoted Jos Nana (who I see is now reading this thread...and Trusty) as having written that in an email. I have a semi-eidetic memory and it tells me the member was Sony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgodeep Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Fish, My issue is pretty much solely the business practices. I do not agree with price fixing or increases, unless that increase genuinely reflects difficulties associated with production. I have no personal issue with either of the dealers in question as I have never purchassed anything from them. From what I have read, I would never want to buy anything from either of them, and am, like a few others, trying to bring this issue to the attention of people so more people are aware of it. If any new dealers were to behave as A&J have, they would be banned, yet, for some reason, known only to Admin, they are allowed to remain, where they continue to 'shoot fish in the barrell'. As V pointed out above, my interest is solely for the betterment of the forum, and the community of its members. I have no personal stakes involved whatsoever. TeeJay, First of all - respect due for having some b*lls and standing up and shouting for what you believe in ...I mean that sincerely. I think your personal price increase caveat does not factor in the marketing phenonmenon known as "premium postitioning" I love vodka...Grey Goose is a personal favourite but at Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 I have a semi-eidetic memory Heh. You must be great at playing poker. (Off to dine. I'm fairly certain when I come back, there'll be 8 pages worth of replies to read. Ahh, the lure of the internet...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Tell us. Aside from Josh, Andrew, (and King?) who will: -offer secure online purchasing -allow me to browse their up-to-date website with prices and multiple high-quality pictures with descriptions -ship the watch after I buy it. Not a month later -reply when somethings wrong -send me free parts to fix problems/broken bands -Reply to my Emails in an acceptable amount of time (a few hours max), in English, with legible sentences. -charge the same/less -ship the same (or better) quality pieces as we are receiving now. No 3rd rate garbage. ok we all said we weren't going to say anything more right guy's... and gal (singular, but you are the best V) the most important item of ALL.... who's going to be able to get it out past customes in china where the watches come from and not take 6 to 8 weeks to get it here by Yak.... if it can leave the country at all Now I am waiting on the usual.... "you idiots aren't listening".. tantrum.. senario..... ... must be nap time for the kids ... either that or mommy gave them a time out... Ok that's all I have to say on this matter.......NOTTTT Joshua and andrew if you are reading this... no worries .. you are loved here at the RWG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highflyingclive Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 btw, good to see you posting here at RWG clive Well, thank you, Delta... But to tell the truth, I have always been here. Just do more reading than writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Yes, that's a very valid point about corporate alliances. The key difference here, is if someone is selling a specific phone, then they are actually selling the specific phone. They are not selling display 'blank' with blinking lights inside it. They are selling a specific product, as advertized. To do otherwise, would you not agree, is highly dishonest, not to mention illegal? This is my isue with A&J, as things like the B&R Fiasco revealed. They are advertising Product X to have movement A, but instead, it has movement B. How is that honest? As mentioned above, someone's dad got ripped off over a cheaper replacement, and not getting re-funded the difference. Again, how is that honest? "this is my issue with A&J" You just said a mouth full TJ. .. it is "your" issue why do you want to try and ram it down my throat ? does not seem like you are going to change my mind and I'm not going to change yours... that's ok ....your choice.... my choice ... simple others "choices" too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 : :And in that time I have purchased over 50 watches from several dealers condenscending YEARS worth of experiences into those self-same 2 months; posted to the best of my limited ability to make this forum a better place; and kept my whinging and personal attacks to a minimum. From what I can see, this is much more than you have done in this one thread alone, so I'll thank you to keep your ad-hominen attacks to yourself. If not, please avoid me in future. You have made this a better place ... and what does time have to do with "this" ... quality !!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 @teejay, i'm not going to argue w/ you about josh or trusty's honesty levels.... however, w/ regard to price fixing, what about this possibility: the factory owner/maker of replica watches realizes: hey, if i buy a genuine watch, use it to make a high quality replica, fix the price at an above-average price given the quality of the replication, and limit the supply of these watches to the big dealers that can move high volumes of these watches, i can make a handsome profit. i'll also tell these dealers that if they start trying to compete with each other to drive down the cost of these watches, i will stop giving them exclusive supply to this product. doesn't sound too far fetched to me... deltatahoe ?And to add to that, do you suppose that some of these .. makers ... workers ... dealers want to turn a profit ??????????? wow .... you THINK ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giorgio Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 ... and what does time have to do with "this" ... It has to do with someone *s h i t t i n g* on someone else's experience simply because they choose not to make ten posts in every topic every day. That's what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 I really HATE the fact that I have to stay out of these discussions... I understand why... But I still HATE it... TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giorgio Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 I really HATE the fact that I have to stay out these discussions... I understand why... But I still HATE it... TT Please, indulge yourself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Please, indulge yourself... Yes, do, TT... Would you like a grilled sausage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoochman Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Many of you are right. This idiot will continue to buy from Josh and Andrew. Sorry. I like them and I like the service they provide me. Fast communication.. Fantastic pics on the sight. CC purchases. Fast delevery on products and after purchase care that I have not seen from others. I think they are beyond the RWG forum feedback at this point. Maybe the prices are higher but I for one am willinging to pay the higher prices for the customer service that I get. I like to be coddled and I can afford it. Geez!! This is a business and if you do not like them move on. Go somewhere else. I dare you. Would I pay 1000 for an AP, Cartier, HBB that I like damn straight I would. I also buy from Silix and look at DSN, TWP, Ruby ect.. I know the forum is to protect and serve. I do not see a boggyman here. Go collect your pop cans and buy from hooheng or someone. I post on multiple forums and you guys are the nit pickiest group I have found. Reps are for fun. They put smiles on our faces. Go look in the mirror and smile you might not recognize the face. TJ miss you on the other fourms. Hope things are better for you. Love you Vbarret nice post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Ok it's a little sh!t stirring, but it's been weeks and RWG has been a little quiet. Summer holidays ? Hopefully the dealers will turn up to elaborate on why Slay and TeeJay are wrong about them. did I miss anything... had to use the john.... geez come home from the gym and you guy's have 4 pages already... nothing like different opinions to start the tantrums all over again.... Johua and andrew if your reading this ..... ..... ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Look, if you all think josh and andrew are great - buy from them. Fact is, they have consistently over the past year pushed the line as far as many of us are concerned. see discussions on "asian etas" "servicing" and price fixing. They have jacked up pricing dramatically. If you have been around less than a year your probably not seeing it. Fact also is - they do no advertising. There business comes from the boards. they have taken a closed environment and done their best to sqeeze it based upon greed. Its wrong, they have crossed the line and in fact there are other dealers that will get you the same stuff that they have at cheaper prices and at the same if not better service. Personally i use Precious time - Silix is also a good dealer. If you want to continue to overpay and support dealers that offer "waterproofing and full servicing" when absolutely 0 is done to the watch you go ahead - join replica center while your at it, but here at RWG - were trying to hold dealers to a standard - if were going to feed them THOUSANDS of sales leads everymonth, the least they could do is be straight up and give us fair pricing. I started with Joshua in June of 06 ... then i was lured away by so called better deals.... lower prices ... I need to add i never had problems with the watches from joshua.. i was just trying to get better deals.... long story short I lost more money because of defective watches and no customer service after the buy.... so what am i really saving by buying for what 50 bucks less??? Joshua and Andrew for me at least .. and i am sure for countless others have alway's made good my purchase ... and that's why i came back to buying from them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 It has to do with someone *s h i t t i n g* on someone else's experience simply because they choose not to make ten posts in every topic every day. That's what. I don't know what you're refering to giorgio .... all i am trying to accomplish is to stop this "Name calling" if you will .... it's just as bad as being racist.... what does it really accomplish..... I'm reading Teejay's thoughts now and I can actually read them without all the verbs that are uncalled for ... don't you think we could have a better .. dicussion ... debate if we didn't call anyone names..... you little [censored] ?? .... just joking G..... couldn't help that one... now your turn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giorgio Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 (edited) Hey, I simply pointed out that the fact that someone doesn't have a thousand posts in a years worth of membership doesn't make his experience meaningless. Someone was offended by that observation and decided to attack me on a personal level. That was uncool. How would you have felt if you were banned from RWG (as many people called for) simply because you have <300 posts, but Flav has 1600+ therefore you "don't know what you're talking about" and are obviously trying to scam him? *edit* By the way, where's all this "name calling" supposedly taking place? Edited August 25, 2007 by giorgio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Hey, I simply pointed out that the fact that someone doesn't have a thousand posts in a years worth of membership doesn't make his experience meaningless. Someone was offended by that observation and decided to attack me on a personal level. That was uncool. How would you have felt if you were banned from RWG (as many people called for) simply because you have <300 posts, but Flav has 1600+ therefore you "don't know what you're talking about" and are obviously trying to scam him? I guess emotions run high G... there really is no right or wrong here because it's everyones own personal opinion that's at stake.... I'm not denying what happened with J & A over the BR .. what I am requesting ... is "we" should refraine from lowering ourselves to trying to "hurt" each other with "names" ... i guess i can say this cause i just came home from the gym and pretty much left it all there.... For .."the good of all" senario aside and without trying to get too cerebral ..... why can't we all choose for ourselves ?? and yes .. point taken about my 300 post versus more ... i understand how you feel... not speaking for Madame V. I'm sure she meant no one harm .... emotions were high at the time.... i dunno maybe better to vent here than in traffic Yes? and you must admit Miss V's vocabulary is intense so if she were to pay me a compliment ... using a million $ word I may get offended ...LOL ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
predfan2001 Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Earlier this year when I found this group, I felt like I had found my niche (and also felt like a noob). I have been fooling with and mod'ing watches for a long time, I just had no idea there was an online community who participated in a forum regarding such. To be polite I said good things about my collector even when things went wrong (Andrew). But after awhile I realized almost every transaction had an issue. Wheather it be watch quality or product representation. After I had been burned by Andrew several times, I started to voice my honest opinions. It all started with product issues, like watches that quit or didn't work right off the bat. Trustytime (I really hate to refer to communications with Trustytime as "with Andrew" because as I have said before, I think when you message Andrew, anyone of many people may be responding) did usually make a pretty good effort to resolve things althought their ploy is to offer you something else that costs more out or your pocket. The last straw for me was when I ordered a 14060 Submariner rep based on the pic on his website. It actually looked like a fairly good rep that could be mod'ed to look ok. When I received it, it was total junk. Just a modern "conical/wokky" case with no lugholes and a terrible dial. The fonts were a joke. He (or they) had the nerve to tell me that I has wrong and I had received a fine replica that was a 1:1 representation of a genuine. That was it, I was done. He gave me the option to pick something else off of his site. I said no and I wanted a refuned and he refused. I ended up selecting a "Perfect" Sea-Dweller and called it quits. I have since bought solely from Silix. I have had no problems and the prices are fair. If Trustytime could get quality issues straight and reduce their prices back where they should be, I might buy from him again. Till then, I'm shopping elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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