lanikai Posted September 2, 2007 Report Share Posted September 2, 2007 thanx Ry ... that really would be a good visual.. and you only had the good of RWG and all it's members in mind.... someone had to step up to the plate .... your intentions were "all good" .. thank you again .. from one grateful "member" Lani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted September 2, 2007 Report Share Posted September 2, 2007 Thanks for your kind words, lanikai, but true to my contrarian ways, I'll have to add that uncountable injustices have been foisted on the world by misguided individuals who "only had the good of" (fill in the blank) in mind - and who were convinced of the righteousness of their mission. People like that are often a real danger to others, not to mention what they're trying to 'protect.' In my case, I was trying to walk a fine line between speaking about what I saw as an injustice - or a lack of balance - and my own desire to poke some fun at it in the hope of bringing about a change of attitude. That several persons reacted somewhat defensively to my spoof is probably more a reflection of the indefensibility of their own attitudes than anything I actually said: perhaps I'm too partial to my own writing, but I don't see where I shamed, harrassed or attempted to pressure someone into doing something against his will. I also don't want to be seen as the 'champion' (in the old medaeval sense of the word) of any particular cause at RWG - unless it be that of fairness and common sense. I do insist on the freedom to initiate what I consider to be ethical action within the community of which I'm a member - just as any other member may do if they wish. In the past, exercising this right has also brought me a great deal of grief when it was seen as going against the general interest of the community - but that's another story.... Once again, I sincerely appreciate your loyalty, but it's getting light outside and I have a little errand to run which is of more importance than adding still more words to an issue which merited (and still merits) concrete action rather than endless speeches: nearly two thousand views of this thread and only a handful of membership upgrades and donations! So I'll end mine here with a heartfelt, ALOHA, lanikai! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted September 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2007 @ admin..... could we get a pic of a thermometer to show us how far we are away from being OK next month ... thanks for being here RWG Lanikai I would love to be able to jump on this and say "YES!", but since all upgrades/payments are processed manually via different payment providers, I would have to set this up manually and I really don't ned more work. I will however look into the possibility of doing something like this, but I'm not making any promises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elwopo Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Not too bad an idea.....but it would require a lot of work to simply show the same thing. Every month the forum needs money. Bandwidth isn't cheap....and if the admin ever put a price on his time.....THAT would be a serious number! The bottom line is simple....and sad. In our world...regardless of where you come from....there are good caring people....and there are worthless, scum sucking, spineless, piece of $hit losers who merely use and take whatever they can. Scumbags aren't unique to any society or culture.....they're apparently world wide. I'm sure it's my imagination.....but it sure seems like there was a LOT of activity on the board as soon as Admin announced everything was OK for the month. Instead of this topic being near the top of the new post list (for days) it dropped like a stone as the losers and users came out of the woodwork again with the typical "what do I dooooo what should I buuuy type of nonsense. (I could swear someone said that was going to happen ) Lots of posts from those with the "member" tag. Maybe they like the tag a lot since they've had it...... since EARLY '06! And dealers (sorry "collectors")... don't even get me started on what they HAVEN'T done!! Every month the thermometer would show that money would help keep this thing going. It's needed and would be appreciated by those who give so much of their time (and no.....not prolific posters who LOVE to mention how their knowledge is worth more than money.....but the admin, co-admins, and moderators (even if I do get in hot water with them from time to time. hiya TT ) So have one or two less Starbucks every month.....you won't die.....and put the money into something you derive value from. That way.....a very small minority will not have to pay large amounts to pay for the sorry a$$es. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 A 'scumbag' or whatever you want to call the people that have been around for a while who haven't yet donated, has some questions regarding membership. I'm someone who needs to understand the value of what they're paying for. I've got no problem paying the money for a membership. But I am still ignorant about some of the reasons why it is required, and what it is that I am getting. I'm hoping that there can be some elaboration on some of my questions. Perhaps my questions will not be viewed as worth answering, and in that case I will probably withdrawal my participation in the forum, but if they are answered with what I believe is a legitimate effort to clarify some of these questions, I am ready to donate. I've been under a variety of impressions about why these donations are needed. I've got no problem donating to a 'charity' or whatever- but I would like to know how the money is being used. Does my membership entitle me to a break-down of the financial costs of the forum, and how the money is being allocated? When people would criticize Warren Buffett for his lack of charitable donation, he would usually reply by commenting that the charities are often very poorly arranged, in terms of their business practices. They often are not good at maximizing a dollar, and as a result, he felt that the money was better left under his control, whereby he could continue to grow the money and donate at a later time when there was a charity that could maximize the value of his donation. I've been a moderator of a forum that has many many times the traffic volume that this site does. It is not a pay forum. They have been able to subsidize their existence by using advertising to cover expenses. This has not been a sufficient financial solution for this forum and I would like to know why. Perhaps it's because there's a need to avoid publicizing the forum, or perhaps it's a conscious decision on the part of the admins to avoid cluttering the board with advertising. I notice that there is a 'radio' feature, there are interviews (ie: is the long-distance phone call to TTK being paid for by forum members?), and other such 'upgrades'. These are not upgrades I would see as prudent to my experience of the forum, but that doesn't mean they're not worthwhile. Is there a voting system for determining how these allocations of capital are employed? I've been told that "if the information on this board has saved you money, then pay up". It's a type of information-mafia or something, whereby protection from the shady world of replica watches is provided by this community...but "you need our protection". I guess it really depends on how you feel about the free flow of information, and whether the open communication among people in a forum environment can be 'commoditized' by the people running the forum. I'm relatively bright, so are most people, and I think that you would find that even if this place didn't exist, there would be another that would serve a similar function. That is the beauty of the internet, but again, this is my perception and I am very open to the idea that there are critical gaps in my reasoning that only someone with an informed opinion would be in a position to clarify. In terms of 'protection'....I see some potential problems with this. The rep game is pretty shady to begin with, and as a result, prudence is warranted not only in terms of the choice of dealer, etc... but also in terms of the communities that talk or market these replica items. Call me a pessimist. I notice that there are dealers here that price-fix and misrepresent their items, and yet they are featured dealers. Guys like Paul of Wo-Mart are dealers, and yet they have a long history of shady dealer practices. I notice that the second-hand market is often populated by watches that are priced at or above their new price from dealers. Hey, I believe in a free market just like the next guy...but I do notice it. We can argue the value in "hey, you're getting this watch from the states, and don't have to risk customs, etc..." but another major forum has made an effort to curtail this practice. Does the VIP (which is required to sell here) entitle me to gouge newbies? I notice modders that essentially use the 'trade board' as a vehicle for selling watches that otherwise should be considered 'dealer' watches. Are the servers stored in over-seas locations that require more security than cheaper options, due to the shady nature of replica-talk? I personally believe that complaining about the lack of effectiveness of the membership system, and the small % of visitors that actually donate, is more reflective of a failure to outline the value of the membership, then the natural online behaviour of 'scumbags' and others that need to be strong-armed into donations because of the darkness and vagaries of human nature. Perhaps if there was more transparency, in terms of why the $$ is needed, as well as how it is employed, then there would be greater numbers of people that would feel comfortable donating. I can say that for me, personally, that's the reason I haven't donated to this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Wow Mezz- Not quite sure where to begin. But here we go. If you don't see the value of the forum you shouldn't pay anything. But then I don't understand why you are hanging around here at all. IMHO, I would rather have a forum with 20 interesting and interested people and the small membership footing the entire bill than a forum of folks like you. You are all about me, me, me... I can't tell you why this is better or worse than a 1,000 other forums as I don't spend any virtual time on any other forum. I discovered this one by accident. Over my time here I have made a few very fine friends and a number of interesting acquaintances. The friends I have made would do anything they could for each other. That is priceless. The watch info is interesting too but that is not what has me spending time here. Once you have a list of dealers in theory you would never have to come back. Now let me ask you a few questions. Even if you feel relationships are worthless, has this forum ever helped you find a certain watch, an honest dealer or saved you from buying a bad watch? If the answer is yes than give back to the community. If the answer is no and you don't want to contribute your share to the community because you don't feel like you are a part of the community than perhaps you are in the wrong one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 You mean that there are still people who don't know about Admin's villa on the French Riviera? The Vegas holidays for the Mods? All the freebees from the dishonest dealers? Sheesh, open your eyes, people.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Wow Mezz- Not quite sure where to begin. But here we go. If you don't see the value of the forum to you don't pay up. But also, no need to hang around either. I would rather have a forum with 20 people and the small membership footing the entire bill than have a forum of folks like you. See, people are simply going to get defensive about my questions, and that was relatively predictable. If you believe that imploring people to donate through belittling is effective, then I won't be surprised if the financial problems of this message board continue well into the future. I believe it fundamentally fails to understand the reason why there is a problem in the first place. It breeds an 'us vs. them' mentality that is quite alienating to the average user, as opposed to identifying the real reasons why there may be a proportionately small % of visitors who do not donate. You perceive my comments as "well, if you don't understand the value of the community, then so be it". That manner of trying to enlist contributions is not terribly effective. I don't believe those doing it are helping the admins at all, but that's just me. All I'm asking for is clarification. I am happy to leave if that is asking too much. I personally believe that clarification might be more meaningful in enlisting donations than your method. I could be wrong on that, I can only speak for my own perceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Booze: 40% Babes: 50% Bribes: 08% Bandwidth: 02% All kidding (?) aside, I'm not sure that the Admin. really wants to explain in detail the rather complicated system of offshore servers that ensure the security of RWG...the system - of which I have only the sketchiest knowledge - is a money-eater in itself. For the rest, I'm not sure I really care: if the Boss is making beer-money on the good months, then personally, that's fine with me. Conversely, I don't think that anyone is getting rich off of RWG. And if it turns out that someone is, that's fine with me too: everytime you buy a newspaper, a magazine or turn on the television, you're also adding to the wealth of immeasurably richer individuals and organizations - none of whom have your well-being as a consumer - not to mention your very existence - at heart. A few dollars a month is absolutely nothing in exchange for what this forum offers: if others are doing it for free, then more power to them. Personally, I feel just fine being here, and paying a bit now and then for that privilege. We're literally talking about the equivalent cost of a few Starbucks frappashittos here! Why make a Federal Case out of something so simple? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 I've actually run an online forum that has exponentially more daily users than this forum. I am familiar with some of the economics of running an internet community. My reason for asking for clarification was not to belittle or invalidate the contributions of others or the admins, but was simply to ask for some explanation as to why my donation is needed, with the underlying assumption that there are financial implications to running this place that I am unfamiliar with- due to the specific challenges involved in running this community. I will take fact that my request has been met with condescension as an indirect answer to my question and take my leave. Good luck to the good folks here- I know that most people who participate in this community are what makes the community valuable. I think that some may have lost perspective on that, but then again, if I was on the 'inside', maybe I wouldn't feel that way. See a problem there? Probably not...but I'd venture to guess that you're going to continue to have this problem until you do... Good day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 There is nothing to clarify. This site survives with limited traditional advertising revenue. Reps are illegal in most places and the higher the profile the bigger the problems. Admin's funding sources have been systematically cut off for exactly these reasons. Now factor in that you do have to have a more expensive off-shore server set-up to avoid being turned off and a good amount of bandwidth consumption. Voila - the problem. Now if your feeling is let it die another one will pop up anyhow I can't answer that. What I can't fathom is your having to ask what is the value of this place. If you really can't answer it than you are in the wrong place. And it is not about the money. Folks who care about this place and can afford it will do what they can to ensure its existence. Those who don't won't. Well, that was a waste of time. I see he is already gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 I will take fact that my request has been met with condescension as an indirect answer to my question and take my leave. @Mezz Your leave is duely noted... TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 The proverbial chip on the proverbial shoulder... It's also true that some people are a lot happier at RWI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaifender Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 ok, so here goes: I've been on this board roughly about 3 or 4 months.. the amount of knowledge i've learned has obviously increased 10 fold since day one visiting here. I too am guilty of not YET contributing to the "board fund", but have my reasons. Not ethical, not political and not moral. I'm very in aggreeance with mezzanine in that knowing where my money is going would be a great thing and easy way for people to gauge the value of their dollars put into the site. About 5 years ago I was a very active member of a Forum to which I paid money after my first year of being there as well as t-shirt for the forum's appreciation to its paying members. The admin never asked for money though. I must admit that i'm rather clueless when it comes to "server fees", "bandwith allocation" etc. etc... but from my experience in the past forum it seemed that advertisements on the forum were more than enough to pay the cost of site... The truth is that this forum could exist on any server, anywhere and for free. We could all start an MSN community and do the same thing there that we're doing here.. but we all have chosen this site. I'm quasi sure(if my rep interest doesn't fade) i'll be donating in the future but for right now, "this just keeps on getting better". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 We could also host it on Yahoo Groups - disguised as a pedophilia site to deflect suspicion.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 IMHO... bottom line is the "fact" that there is more traffic on this forum than "others" .. I for one "choose" not to ride on the "coat tail" of members who know the value of this forum. for the price of a "cup of coffee" ... or a 1000 excuses "why not to" .. I speak only for myself .... i spend 10 to 15 $ every morning for breakfast.. sometimes more... and if I cannot donate at least this much monthly for a place that I spend so much time on and find a wealth of information and support .. then I had better re-evaluate my priorities ... how much do you spend in a bar or pub to get "happy" .... PROBABLY throwing money around after a few ??? LOL ... thank you again to Ry for stepping it up and taking the heat for what should be said ..and to members like Kruzer who have anchored this forum so people like you and I can have a place like this ..... and to those who think "THIS" is strong arming ... HHAAAAA ... if you think this is strong arming ... you have no clue... our "fingers" are not that buffed. LOL Lanikai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaifender Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 We could also host it on Yahoo Groups - disguised as a pedophilia site to deflect suspicion.... true.. but i was thinking more along the lines of one of the "oh-so-popular" Lust Murder and Consentual Homicide webgroups on MSN.. much less conspicuous... point taken can't we start using code words to describe our "watches".. like the word for watch could be "knife" or "scalpel" . Breitling could be "cuffs", Panerai could be "addiction" and ROLEX could be "NEEDLE" and the word REP could be "whip".. of course.. "leather" would stay "leather" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryyannon Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 We would also need a code word for 'Homeland Security'.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaifender Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 We would also need a code word for 'Homeland Security'.... it'd be "terrorism" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Mezz I think this line wrapped it up perfectly.. underlying assumption that there are financial implications to running this place that I am unfamiliar with The set up the Admin has chosen is indeed expensive it is also very much needed as we have had a long history of others trying to shut us down. It is futile to try and compare us with another forum unless that forum was also dealing in illicit goods as the costs of keeping them running would be incomparable. As to the interviews, come on you said you were a clever man, how much does a skype message cost, a MSN chat, an E-mail for crying out loud I assure you no one picks up a phone here. The fact is your entire post is full of misconceptions that sound more like a man who thinks he is just that little bit smarter than he is or cares very little for what the board has done for him. As TT said your departure has been duly noted.............bye Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaifender Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 can't we all just get along?..... the wound deepens... ouch.. pour in more salt.. POUR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elwopo Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 @ kenberg WELL SAID! The problem with people like this is that their arrogance leads them to believe that they are more intelligent than they actually are. In any event.....nothing could be said better than you said it. Unfortunately your comments are pearls before swine. btw......If you're "gone".....mezz.....why do you continue to lurk the topic...after all this time.....even as I write this? perhaps you did not get the dramatic reaction to leaving that you had hoped? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaifender Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 divide.. divide.. divide.... whatever happened to.... unity unity unity. Moderators should change their title to Mediators.. then we could have peer counseling sessions held right here on the forum. It would save a lot of us the crap loads of money we spend on our shrinks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 divide.. divide.. divide.... whatever happened to.... unity unity unity. Moderators should change their title to Mediators.. then we could have peer counseling sessions held right here on the forum. It would save a lot of us the crap loads of money we spend on our shrinks unfortunately or fortunately..... some things need to be said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollux1 Posted September 3, 2007 Report Share Posted September 3, 2007 Just re-upgraded my membership to v.i.p status once again, as i didn't realise that my previous subscription was stolen by PP. More than happy to help considering i regard this place as my second home! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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