Who prefers reps to gens?

[SportsterRider]

That pretty much sums it up, lurker.

Ouch! Man, there's that aweful slam again!

At least this lurker is a RWG supporter. You?

Deflection, inconsistency, call it what you want. What does any 'ambiguity' or 'inconsistency' on my part matter to you?

It calls into question your credibility, numbnuts. I know you're not so stupid that you can't figure that out.

At the end of the day, you're the one who's admited to being a cheap SOB and then started having a go at other people's opinions, so that makes you a hypocrite.

Umm, no, I didn't have a go at 'other peoples opinions'. I took issue with you and you alone, TJ. Also, me being a cheap SOB and you being a hypocrite are two different things. I tried to explain that in my last post, but it appears to either have gone over your head, or you've conveniently chosen to ignore it. Either way, your attempts, once again, at deflection are admirable, but not good enough.

You also said that many dealers sold unbranded versions of their watches, and when asked to provide links to such, you failed to deliver.

Nice try, TJ. The information is readily available and the topic has been discussed many times before. If you don't know how to look the information up, that's your problem, but it doesn't invalidate what I said.

Just to give you a hint, try looking for information about Homer (exclusive watches on E-Bay), for one. He's known to have Panerai, Rolex, etc, non-branded reps. There are others as well, but I'll leave it up to you to find them (interesting that you never looked into it before since you loath the idea of buying a genuine, and surely a branded replica will give off the impression that you DO own a genuine).

You're a lurker, a troll, and not worth any more attention.

And you're a tool to be devoutly ignored.

SR

[eunomians]

I prefer genuine to rep. No doubt about it. Reps are for play, they serve a function (to serve as a model for the real deal). It's like tryin' on a pair of shoes. If you like 'em, you buy the real deal. 9 times outta 10, most "shoes" are overpriced clodhoppers that ain't worth shelling out for. Thanks to reps, you don't need to pay inflated prices for a 'safe-queen'. It's also a great way to stick to Richemont Group and LVMH.

Anyhow, nothing beats the real deal.

[TeeJay]

At least this lurker is a RWG supporter. You?

And you think that because you contribute financially to the forum that makes your opinion more valid than mine? What a pathetic individual you are.

It calls into question your credibility, numbnuts. I know you're not so stupid that you can't figure that out.

Riiight. And my 'credibility' matters to you why?

Umm, no, I didn't have a go at 'other peoples opinions'. I took issue with you and you alone, TJ.

And me and my opinions, again, matters to you why?

Also, me being a cheap SOB and you being a hypocrite are two different things.

Sorry, but there's only one hypocrite here, and that's you, getting your boxers in a bunch because you can't get your head round an opinion you find too contradictory.

Nice try, TJ. The information is readily available and the topic has been discussed many times before. If you don't know how to look the information up, that's your problem, but it doesn't invalidate what I said.

I don't have to look anything up. You're the one who cited that loads of dealers sell unbranded versions of their watches. I pointed out that I have never seen any of the forum dealers selling unbranded watches, and asked you to name and link to examples. Not because I can't find the information, but because the onus is on you to prove your point.

Just to give you a hint, try looking for information about Homer (exclusive watches on E-Bay), for one.

And how many others of the forum's 'recommended collectors' sell unbranded reps?

And you're a tool to be devoutly ignored.

SR

So ignore me. I'm not the one having to resort to juvenile insults because I can't articulate myself properly. And before you try and use 'lurker and troll' as examples, sorry, but that's just describing you for what you are. Someone who lurks on a forum without contributing participation, and who trys to start fights for self-amusement. Try fishing from another bridge, I've got better things to do than try and further clarify my opinions to someone who's 'opinion' means nothing to me.

Edited October 19, 2007 by TeeJay

[Victoria]

Just to lighten the atmosphere a bit. Night!

[TeeJay]

Just to lighten the atmosphere a bit. Night!

Such behaviours would certainly explain why some 'senior citizens' get a little 'incontinent' in later life

[SportsterRider]

And you think that because you contribute financially to the forum that makes your opinion more valid than mine? What a pathetic individual you are.

So I'm pathetic because I contribute to the forum, not just in posts, but also by helping how I can financially? Riight...

Riiight. And my 'credibility' matters to you why?

And me and my opinions, again, matters to you why?

This is actually a good point. As I continue this circular conversation with you, I remember why I stopped interacting with you the last time I got involved with a post of yours.

Sorry, but there's only one hypocrite here, and that's you, getting your boxers in a bunch because you can't get your head round an opinion you find too contradictory.

Not really, TJ. You seem to be getting a little worked up, however.

I don't have to look anything up.

And why not? You post that you are so tired of re-typing stuff that can be looked up, right? So you're the only one that can pull that excuse? Gimme a break.

You're the one who cited that loads of dealers sell unbranded versions of their watches.

Never said "loads". You have a bad habit of doing that, TJ. I remember that from the last time you and I 'talked'. The words are right there for you to see. No need to make up your own, or to exaggerate.

I pointed out that I have never seen any of the forum dealers selling unbranded watches, and asked you to name and link to examples.

And once again, here you are making up your own reality. I never said we had 'forum dealers' selling unbranded watches (although, I suspect that you could probably get 'em from them if you ask). You can't even keep your stories straight within the same topic.

And how many others of the forum's 'recommended collectors' sell unbranded reps?

Again with the making up of words. Never said this, TJ.

So ignore me.

I probably will later. Right now, you are my entertainment until the hockey game starts.

I'm not the one having to resort to juvenile insults because I can't articulate myself properly.

Oh, but you are. Big time.

And before you try and use 'lurker and troll' as examples, sorry, but that's just describing you for what you are.

Lurkers rarely post. I don't have thousands, but I do have 150. Hardly a lurker. You, however, are a tool. All one has to do is read any of your posts to get that sense. But, as you mentioned above, I supposed I could ignore you.

Someone who lurks on a forum without contributing participation, and who trys to start fights for self-amusement.

I participate, TJ. Both with conversation, and as a RWG supporter. And I don't start fights (and actually, I don't really consider our little exchange a fight either. Fights are much more interesting than this), either. But if this is all you've got left as a reply, I feel bad for ya.

Try fishing from another bridge, I've got better things to do than try and further clarify my opinions to someone who's 'opinion' means nothing to me.

Not fishing. And TJ, how many times do I have to say that you HAVE made your thoughts very clear here. No need for further clarification as I've got a good handle on it.

SR

[World Traveller]

THAT, m'darling, is what they want you to think precisely because of this attitude.

She invited a person I know to her castle, and charged them for parking (LOL). When you take her out to lunch, make sure you have your platinum AmEx, because she won't even help out with the tip.

You're talking about some wierd "royal" euros. I was having dinner a few years ago in Italy with a duke or something from Spain (I don't really recall as those titles are meaningless to me). He was cheap as hell and could not care less about other people's money. My businessman friend was paying the bill and this royalty guy ordered expensive wine and never offered to pay. He rents out his castle too, to get money. That is not USA style at all, totally different culture.

[Victoria]

You're talking about some wierd "royal" euros. I was having dinner a few years ago in Italy with a duke or something from Spain (I don't really recall as those titles are meaningless to me). He was cheap as hell and could not care less about other people's money. My businessman friend was paying the bill and this royalty guy ordered expensive wine and never offered to pay. He rents out his castle too, to get money. That is not USA style at all, totally different culture.

Yes, different culture, different mindset.

But what they do isn't weird, it's just that the true "gratin" of the USA, the ones who have had money for well over 150 years (which is a lot of time for the US), don't show up in the tabloids -- else you'd have a daily barrage of these stories.

There isn't a popular circulation mag like an Hello or "Hola!" equivalent in the US which feature your aristocracy -- the Astors, the Vanderbilts, the Lees of Virginia -- because they were long ago superceded by filmstars in your country.

Then they were superceded by rockstars.

Today, it's a mix of all these, plus whomever gets exposure for the sake of being famous (like Paris Hilton).

And I haven't quite decided if there's a benefit to one way or the other.

Each is grotesque for what it is, but I know one thing: even "just folks" can get a bum rap if they all you ever went by was their behaviour on Jerry Springer.

Anyway, I still prefer gens to reps, but I have fun with both.

[World Traveller]

I like all watches, rep or gen.

I really want to get some unique genuine watches that exemplify that craftsmanship and detail of a fine timepiece like one of these....

I like my gen Seikos and my wife's gen Gucci. The Gucci is over 10 years old. Just had to change the battery once.

[Victoria]

I like my gen Seikos and my wife's gen Gucci.

Oh I love your Seiko! I think that's a VERY underrated marque.

The Gucci...well, I have various versions of the Gucci Twirl, gen and rep, which is nice and chunky.

But growing up I recall these Gucci watches.

I had this.

I didn't have this.

And oh God, how much I hate this kind of watch now.

[tobico]

I personal prefer Rep more than Gen. Myself own a gen vacheron but I have several reps. But I do not have my gen as my everyday wear because I am afraid of scratching the watch. As for the rep, its user friendly, and it always fits with a nice t-shirt or a nice suit. Most importantly, no one will doubt if its gen or not since most people know nothing about watches except 1) 20% bankers 2) some lawyers and accountants 3) entrepernuers 4) a few doctors 4) us!

[TeeJay]

So I'm pathetic because I contribute to the forum, not just in posts, but also by helping how I can financially?

False choice. I never said that at all. You made a comment about supporting the forum, as if your support of the forum actually had any relevence at all, and made your opinion more valid than mine. I said you were pathetic for having that opinion. Not for supporting the forum. Quite a difference, but nice attempt to deflect the issue.

This is actually a good point.

So answer the question. What do I, and my opinions, matter to you? If nothing, why bother going into a rant about them?

Not really, TJ. You seem to be getting a little worked up, however.

Not at all.

And why not? You post that you are so tired of re-typing stuff that can be looked up, right?

Wrong.

I said I did not like repeating myself when discussing my opinions, which, given the times I have discussed them, I would expect most people who regularly read the forum to be familiar with. Quite a difference there. Just to re-state things, you said:

There are also many dealers that sell unbranded versions of their replica's.

I replied:

Name them and link to images from their sites where they do this.

All you've done so far is throw one name out. WHere are these 'many dealers' that sell unbranded versions of their replicas? Sure people sell unbranded/clone watches on eBay, but they don't also sell the branded ones. Again, you made this statement, the onus in on you to prove your point.

Never said "loads". You have a bad habit of doing that, TJ. I remember that from the last time you and I 'talked'. The words are right there for you to see. No need to make up your own, or to exaggerate.

Sorry, you said "many". The two words are rather interchangeable. They both mean 'a lot'. As I said, I have not seen 'forum collectors' or dealers on sales sites selling unbranded versions of the branded watches which they sell.

Again with the making up of words. Never said this, TJ.

Homer is one of the forums 'recommended dealers'. The same comment as above.

I probably will later. Right now, you are my entertainment until the hockey game starts.

You admit your trolling behaviour.

Oh, but you are. Big time.

No I'm not. Where have I used juvenile insults? You've called me 'numbnuts' and 'tool'. I have simply pointed out what you are. A lurker and a troll. You even admitted your trolling behaviour above, by considering me 'your amusement'. You accuse me of making things up, yet are doing the exact same thing here:

It cracks me up when people lament the 'outrageous' prices a genuine Rolex, Omega or Panerai fetches, but they have no problem wearing a fake with these names painted on the dial with the obvious intent of fooling folks into thinking they DO own one of these pieces. If you're really going to thump your chest at the outrage these theives perpetrate with their crazy prices, why not buy a Seiko and support a company that sells something you can afford? I could even respect a person like this if he/she wore a non-branded 'copy'. But wearing a replica while getting preachy about the costs of a genuine? Hmm..

and:

You've been going off how no matter how much money you had, you would never buy one out of principal, but you're okay with a rep that makes folks think you bought one. Makes your 'principals' seem ambiguous, at best.

You say you appreciate the product, want the product, but won't pay for one and never would. But you have no problem wearing a replica of that product, with that products name on it, that will clearly be interpreted by anyone looking that you DO own a genuine version of the product, and that you DO support the company. THIS is where you and I differ, and THIS is what I've been talking about. Not your opinion - you're entitled to have as many as you like! It's your BS double standards that I'm talking about.

Your overall argument is flawed as you are working under the assumption that I wear branded reps so that other people think I am wearing the genuine item. I have said numerous times, that I do not wear watches to impress others, I wear them for my own pleasure. I have also said numerous times, that if someone actually cared enough to ask me about the watch I was wearing, I would tell them what it was (a replica) I also said, that thus far, no 'random stranger' has ever enquired about my watch, and that here, people do not tend to strike up conversation with others about their clothing.

Lurkers rarely post. I don't have thousands, but I do have 150. Hardly a lurker.

150 posts since december. That's slightly less than 15 in a month. Barely one post every two days. That's hardly contributing to the conversations and community here is it.

You, however, are a tool. All one has to do is read any of your posts to get that sense.

In your opinion. Others would disagree with you.

But, as you mentioned above, I supposed I could ignore you.

And yet you didn't, and started acting like a troll.

I participate, TJ. Both with conversation, and as a RWG supporter.

An average of 1 post every two days hardly qualifies as participating with conversaton, and as mentioned previously, forum support is irrelevent to this issue, yet you brought it up to try and make yourself and your opinion sound more important than mine.

And I don't start fights

You did here, by your comments about my opinions, although you weren't really brave enough to just directly address them to me, instead, you used the typical troll tactic of making a comment and hoping someone would bite and respond. You admitted above that you considered me 'your amusement', so that puts your comments squarely in the realm of trolling.

And TJ, how many times do I have to say that you HAVE made your thoughts very clear here. No need for further clarification as I've got a good handle on it.

SR

If that was true, why were you laboring under the assumption that I wear my watches to impress other people, or so they can make an incorrect assumption about me? I've clearly said several times why I don't like Clone Watches, and that an unbranded watch would not be 'visually accurate' to the original item which I like, and, as my issue is with commercialism and artificially inflated price tags, I want (for my own pleasure) a watch which is as reasonably accurate (in terms of form and markings) as the original, at a reasonable price for the item. If someone who collected reproduction prints of famous paintings was to buy a print of a famous painting, they are not going to want to buy one which has a key detail missing. They might, however, tollerate a print which is on poor quality paper, or a poor quality print, providing all the essential details are present. That is why I prefer reps which are essentially accurate (even if there are slight inaccuracies). However, the key issue which you have ignored, is that the only person I buy my watches for, is myself.

[Victoria]

Fellas, it's Saturday -- funday!

We're in good health, thank God (Allah). We're relatively well-fed, clothed, shod, and housed, thank God (Allah). We've got a few coins in our pockets, and by some miracle, we're surrounded by people who share our precise enthusiasm.

Haven't been following what's happening, so don't know exactly what is what, but I do know that these kinds of disagreements are easily resolvable.

It just takes one person to walk away, having made their point, but counting their other blessings.

Now, how's about it? Let's be happy, yes?

[Pugwash]

It just takes one person to walk away, having made their point, but counting their other blessings.

... and the name for that person is The Loser.

sorry, you did say it's a funday.

[cornerstone]

Okay - a plague on all your houses for making me read this and try to work out what the disagreement is!

So here are some new rules:

1. In the case of a draw - RWG Supporters win

2. Gens are better than reps unquestionably. You may prefer one to the other for many reasons, but one is still better than the other.

3. Rich people aren't cheap.

4. The Queen doesn't drive those cars at all. It was the Queen Mum with all those shite Daimler Limo's. The Queen has a fleet of RR Phantoms and a new Bentley. She has a fairly new (Jaguar) Daimler (supercharged V8) and a Range Rover. She drives like a nutter.

Are we done?

The original topic: Who prefers reps to gens?

[Watchmeister]

Cornerstone - Exactly!

Back to the topic at hand. Reps or gens? It presupposes people can afford both otherwise it is a silly question. And on a sillier note, if you can afford gens and you are posting on this forum you likely have both and if you do than you like both.

So here's my question: How many people actually have Reps and gens of the same brand? For those who answer yes I would be curious to know what your opinion is? I will go first. I do and I appreciate both. What reps have made me do is focus on gens of my favorite brands that are not or cannot be properly replicated. They also have resulted in my buying gens after starting with a rep so the gen manufacturers can thank RWG.

[freddy333]

Yes. This

is a (two tone) rep/franken version

of this

Without a doubt, the difference in fit & finish between the two are palpable. Even most frankens lack the feel & that emotional X-factor you get from a gen. But the differences have narrowed over the years as material and design quality of reps has improved.

Cost aside and given the choice, I cannot imagine that any sane person would select a rep over its gen counterpart. But when you factor cost back into the equation, it is hard not to consider the number of good reps you can get for a fraction of the cost of one gen. And this makes it possible for most people to be able to 'test drive' a particular watch model to see if it will fits one's lifestyle over the long haul before plunking down the price of a gen.

[Victoria]

... and the name for that person is The Loser.

sorry, you did say it's a funday.

This is one of those guy things right?

I walk away, having made my point, and I feel like I won. I won because not only did I make my points, but I showed self-restraint, moderation, and elegance.

So now you know.

[SportsterRider]

I'm done sparring with TJ, folks. I made the points I was attempting to make and have grown tired of talking in circles with him.

Sooo.. That being said, I'd like to comment on the collection that World Traveler has. Nice! The Seiko that I'd LOVE to get my hands on is any model utilizing the Spring Drive. That has to be one of the coolest recent innovations in horology to come about by any brand.

httx://www.seikospringdrive.com/

Anyone here ever look into these?

Thoughts?

SR

[ironmarshal]

In general I prefer reps to gens. Some of the more complicated movements, the stuff they can't rep would be worthwhile to buy, but even then it would have to be a rare occasion to pull it out of the box. With a rep you can mod it, make it your own or wear it as is out of the box without worrying what happens if it gets a ding or a scratch. I'd be paranoid about wearing a gen everyday.

[TeeJay]

I'm done sparring with TJ, folks. I made the points I was attempting to make and have grown tired of talking in circles with him.

Ha! You just couldn't leave it, could you! You had to think you were the one getting the last word in! What a troll you really are

Just admit it, you got the wrong end of the stick about my motivations for wearing reps, and can't/won't answer the questions put to you in my last post because it would mean admitting you were wrong That's cool, doesn't bother me at all, but seriously, why bother anouncing that you're done? You think yours was the opinion people cared about?

Just to help put my cheapness into a wider context, as it really is all pervading in my shopping habits, for my everyday wear, I buy unbranded clothes and shoes (although I am planning on getting some suits from Ken as the prices are comparable to what I pay for unbranded). I buy unbranded generic cola from the supermarket rather than Pepsi, because their taste is comparable, and I don't prefer Pepsi enough to generic to spend the extra pence for the brand name. Now, I am quite prepared to pay for an expensive item if I feel it is actually worth that cost, but, all the time I can have an identical/near identical product for less, I will always go for the cheaper option. And, once more, just so there is no confusion, I don't wear replica watches so others will think I am wearing the real thing, I wear them because they are the closest, cheapest equivelent to the genuine product, which, as illustrated above, I might like, but am not prepared to spend the extra cash for because I am indeed, to use your phrase, a cheap SOB Have a good weekend

[stac]

I LOVE all watches...I started collecting rep's in the 80's when I couldn't afford gens. Twenty-five years or so later I'm still collecting rep's and too many Rollies over the years to count...thanks to a succsessful career. Reps got me into watch repair about ten years ago so ALL mods are done my me in my basement....a fantastic hobby that I cherrish with all my heart. I've got a gen gold day-date, stainless oyster airking, stainless and gold datejust and a 1680 from 1970 that is clean as a whistle...the band being so prestine that you would think it's fake...but my favorite watch is my modded MBW 1680. All work was done by me and as a timepiece the ETA is as accurate as any 3035. I went diving in NC in July and my MBW didn't miss a beat. Five days, ten dives, some to 160fsw and the watch remained bullet proof...

IMHO anyone with cash can buy a gen

ALSO, for me anyway, if one of my reps has a movement issue, I can do the repairs myself. I hate like hell to monkey with gen movements because gen parts are so difficult to get. So for me it's the whole package...modding, movements...what other hobby allows you to take it with you wherever you go

[mezzanine]

I much prefer reps. The super reps are damn near 90% of their gen counterpart. But what's even better is that, is the bottom-up approach that is required with the modded rollies and pams. The fact that the parts aren't 100% right actually promotes learning about the construction and components of watches. There's an opportunity to go through a project of putting together a watch from scratch, and that creates an experience that is far more intimate than walking into an AD.

[Guest Carl]

Let me give all here my best advice on this topic as I am too tired to read any more of it.

Find a good bottle of Scots Whisky (that would be the gen) and buy it. It is all good, don't start another thread about Scots Whisky.

Enjoy a wee bit or more of it and don't come back here until it has worn off.

Find another topic in the forum and live well.

Carl

[Pugwash]

Find a good bottle of Scots Whisky (that would be the gen) and buy it.

Scots Whisky would be a rep. The genuine stuff is called Scotch, but the stuff you want is Single Malt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotch_whisky

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_malt_whisky

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_single_malt_whisky