jake48 Posted November 3, 2007 Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 (edited) First - This has been a four year quest - and it is just about over! About four years ago I found Reps and decided I would be buy a Two Tone Submariner - I would be forever happy with my Rolex Replica and that would be it. Little did I know I would embark on a quest for the "Perfect Two Tone" that would take me four years, several thousand dollars (I quit counting once I got past $10,000.00) and the purchase of many Reps I never dreamed would be produced... Is the WM9 TT the "Perfect Two Tone"? - So far... In my quest for the ultimate TT I have spent at least twenty five hundred dollars, but always came up short. I found that every - and I do mean EVERY - Two Tone made has MAJOR flaws. The bottom line is that no matter how much modding you do to any of the "good" Two Tones out there you would always end up with something that looked "OK" If you ended up in the same room with someone else who was wearing a genuine TT sub it really could be quite embarrassing - you didn't have to be a WIS to tell the Replica was not quite right, in fact, they all were very easy to spot - and forget about ever taking the watch off your wrist. This brings me to the WM9 Two Tone Sub. Right off the bat I will tell you this is the best Two Tone made and NOBODY even comes close - not even remotely!!!!! Is it worth the crazy price Wm9 asks - maybe... First let me give you a quick run down on the watch: Pluses - Crown has been moved up and is very close to being in center of case (hard to tell difference from Gen) Rehaut is identical to Gen Best 18k plating I have seen -unbelievable! Bezel is built like Gen and looks to be very very close in all dimensions Excellent dial Cyclops has correct magnification and is placed in correct position (away from right edge of dial) Date numbers are correct shape, centered perfect in date window and date wheel is correct color Good Crystal height & shape Best bracelet I have seen (fit & finish/large Gen style pins) Three piece solid end links with correct solid gold center piece Negatives - Cr@ppy pearl (good insert though) Crown is not defined like Gen (sharp edges) and uses old style crown tube (not Gen style crown & tube like the new WM9 16610) Sides of bracelet are not polished like Gen Crown Guards are a little on the thick side Bezel insert should snap in like Gen, but the bezel ID is a little oversized which required some glue to attach the insert Lazer etched coronet is a little too visible (should not be able to see with the naked eye) Rep style weak lume What this watch will need - Re-press crystal and align date mag and lazer etched corronet (it is a little off) Thin bezel insert to give crystal a little more height and replace pearl Thin Crown Guards Replace Crown & tube with Gen Polish side of bracelet Re-Lume watch Trust me, if you know Rolex Subs and Two Tones you will know that some of the "pluses" I have listed are not easy to come by and in most cases are impossible to find on anything other than a Gen. What I can't describe to you, or show you in pictures, is the quality and feel. This really is another one of the new "Super Reps" that have been coming out lately. The bezel clicks smooth and easy and feels and sounds just like a Genuine. The crown turns smooth and effortlessly just like a Gen. The bracelet fit to the case is the best I have seen and it is a joy to detach the bracelet. It comes off easily and goes back on just as easy - no more bent or tweeked Rep bracelet pins because the lug holes were drilled off center. The 18k plating is outstanding and when I inspected the watch with a 10x loupe I found no unplated areas that seem to be common in Rep plating. The plating was thorough and complete, even in areas on the inside of the bracelet links were it seems the Rep builders seem to "forget" to plate. I also noticed when I put a polish to the bezel, very little if hardly any black residue came off on the rag - a good sign that more real gold was used than brass, which has always been an issue with so called "18k" plating. Now - about the price... WM9 claims the TT will sell for $779.00 and gives a pre-order price of $529.00. Would I pay $779.00 - probably not. Would I pay $529.00 - you better believe it! Those that want to bank on the fact that at some time this same watch will come out for a better price can wait. Realistically, I don't see a watch of this quality going for much less than $400.00 and it will probably be little more. Truthfully, I see no need for any of our trusted dealers to come out with this case anytime soon as this new case (with the Genuine style Bezel construction) will render all their parts inventories obsolete. With the very few mods I have listed, you could easily hand this watch to someone and they would believe it is a Genuine 16613. If you wanted to go over the top - add a solid gold bezel (about $300.00) and Solid gold bracelet (about $2,000.00) and you would have a $7,000.00 watch that cost you around $3,000.00. Now for some photos: Gen style bezel construction Notice lazer etched coronet of center I have replaced pearl & thinned Bezel insert Sides of bracelet have been polished TW Best for comparison Also - May I kindly ask that the WM9 haters start their own thread. I understand that you think WM9 is ripping people off with his pricing. It is your right not to like his pricing. My suggestion would be don't buy from him... As far as the previously stated opinions about WM9 being a scammer and a con.... I can tell you that he has been 100% honest with me, answered all of my questions and delivered what he promised. If you are wondering about WM9 for yourself, may I suggest that the first thing you should ask before you believe any of the WM9 hype out there is - Does the poster have any firsthand knowledge of WM9 or are they just repeating hearsay? Edited November 3, 2007 by jake48 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greystash Posted November 3, 2007 Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 Thanks for that jake48. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted November 3, 2007 Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 Great review with some good photos thrown in for free! It seems to come down to how much you want to pay, and on this watch you just have to pay more than on others. I'll admit that I'm happy this watch doesn't cry out to me just yet as it's way too rich for my blood. Congrats on the end of a quest, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake48 Posted November 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 (edited) Great review with some good photos thrown in for free! It seems to come down to how much you want to pay, and on this watch you just have to pay more than on others. I'll admit that I'm happy this watch doesn't cry out to me just yet as it's way too rich for my blood. Congrats on the end of a quest, though. Thanks Pug - I wish I could take better photos though. I used my photo shop tools like you showed me to make them a little better, but I couldn't use a lot of the pictures because of the glare coming off of the crystal. Another quest this Rep thing has got me into - photography! Edited November 4, 2007 by jake48 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted November 3, 2007 Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 EXCELLENT Review Jake... Thanks a bunch for the contribution... Double T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terje Posted November 3, 2007 Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 Good and detailed review! 2 questions: Is this the one listed as "VIP's Submariner 16613 2005 F-Serial" on WM9`s website? How does it compare to the MBW TT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake48 Posted November 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 Good and detailed review! 2 questions: Is this the one listed as "VIP's Submariner 16613 2005 F-Serial" on WM9`s website? How does it compare to the MBW TT? No, it is the 2007 model. Although the MBW looks similar, they are two totally different watches. The main differences are found in the bezel construction, bracelet construction, case/rehaut and plating quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terje Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 Correct me if I`m wrong, but it looks like the 2007 model is not (yet?) available on the website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elprimerozen Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 The best tt sub!\Great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bklm1234 Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 Thanks Jake for the review and pics. It's the best sub to date, no doubt. I'm disappointed with the bezel teeth angle though. Your pics show perfectly clear that the teeth are too angled down, more so than the MBW and TWB. The bezel department really falls short of my expectation and my old case MBW's is better in terms of bezel teeth accuracy. BUT, this sub has a big advantage - it can take a gen or aftermarket bezel because it has the same assembly. That's more money to spend to chase that last ounce of accuracy. -bk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket754 Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 I am not a rolex fan myself but I have to say that version looks to be very high quality. This is from a non rolex fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake48 Posted November 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 (edited) Thanks Jake for the review and pics. It's the best sub to date, no doubt. I'm disappointed with the bezel teeth angle though. Your pics show perfectly clear that the teeth are too angled down, more so than the MBW and TWB. The bezel department really falls short of my expectation and my old case MBW's is better in terms of bezel teeth accuracy. BUT, this sub has a big advantage - it can take a gen or aftermarket bezel because it has the same assembly. That's more money to spend to chase that last ounce of accuracy. -bk bk- I went to an AD today. I checked the Two Tone out and later in the evening I went to a good friend of mines celebration of his daughter's Quincera party. At the party was another friend of mine who was wearing his Gen Two Tone. I had mine and we were able to compare side by side. Although the bezel angle is ever so slightly different as you have described, it is really not noticeable at all. The primary reason it is not that noticeable when compared to a Gen is the finish that WM9 has put on his bezel. It is identical to a Genuine bezel finish and this is more important than the slight difference in the top bezel angle. No other Rep comes remotely close - What WM9 got right is the finish. On a Genuine bezel (and WM9's too) only the very top of the bezel is polished to a super glossy and smooth, almost mirror like finish with no variations in the surface. The bezel teeth cut outs are more of a dull satin finish and look as if they were notched out after the top of the bezel was polished. The finish on the angles of the bezel below the teeth are a spun satin finish. The WM9 bezel captures this perfectly and is something you have to see in person. I do intend to change the bezel as I have a good source for a solid gold replacement, but truthfully, I would be more concerned about the finish on the bezel than the slight variance in the top angle of the bezel. Believe me, the finish is way more important to the Genuine look of the bezel when you are looking at the watches (Rep vs Gen) in person... This picture captured it best: Here is a Gen for comparison - I don't know - looks the same to me - angle and all - maybe MBW got it wrong... Edited November 4, 2007 by jake48 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itreeman Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 Wow, that really is a beautiful watch. I am dying to get my hands on a tt sub, looks like this is definetly the way to go. Enjoy that monster!!! How long ago did you order it?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake48 Posted November 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 Wow, that really is a beautiful watch. I am dying to get my hands on a tt sub, looks like this is definetly the way to go. Enjoy that monster!!! How long ago did you order it?? Believe it or not, I forgot. I can tell you for sure it was at least two months ago, but no more than four. The good news is that for the most part WM9 has them in stock if you are willing to pay the price of $529.00 instead of betting that the other dealers will come out with this version in the future and for a cheaper price... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CY0811 Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 Looks very good..but will there be an all SS version from this maker? The new super SD looks good as well. The last quater of 2007 is bringing out serious Rollie reps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickdick Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 Thanks for sharing... looks pretty darn good to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baglc1 Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 Believe it or not, I forgot. I can tell you for sure it was at least two months ago, but no more than four. The good news is that for the most part WM9 has them in stock if you are willing to pay the price of $529.00 instead of betting that the other dealers will come out with this version in the future and for a cheaper price... I did order mine in Feb this year, as a VIP. I did pay $49 deposit then and at the start of Aug payed the remainder of $450 being a total $499 for the Blue tt /Z serial. The SS Z serial if you ordered in Feb was only $450 if you was a VIP. I have mine on most days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watcher Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 Looks very good..but will there be an all SS version from this maker? The new super SD looks good as well. The last quater of 2007 is bringing out serious Rollie reps. Yes they do a SS version as I reviewed it a short while ago. Have a look through the Rollie section and you will see it. Nice watch and exactly as my SS version. Mine is undergoing some serious gen part grafting and will be released for viewing soon with gen bezel assembly, updated Noob dial and date wheel and new better Crystal. Enjoy yout TT!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmarshal Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 Beautiful watch. I too have been craving a perfect TT rep and have stayed away from them because of the flaws. This however will almost surely change my mind. One question on the bracelet...you stated a solid gold bracelet will run about 3k. Is this for solid gold or for a tt with solid gold midlinks. How much would a gen tt bracelet run? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millemiglia Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 Looks near perfect to me! How did you polish the side of the bracelet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brsmith1 Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 EXCELLENT Review Jake... Thanks a bunch for the contribution... Double T Can you add me to the "Supporter" group, and answer my previous question? Many Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 i love the two tone black subs!! This looks like a very nice rep.. deep rehaut too.. congratulations and excellent review! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake48 Posted November 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 (edited) Looks near perfect to me! How did you polish the side of the bracelet? I have tried numerous ways. This way seems to work the best for me. Using a flat file I wrap 600 grit wet dry sand paper around the file. I place a small container of water on the table in front of me and constantly keep dipping the sand paper in the water as I sand the sides of the bracelet. This keeps the metal particles from building up under the sand paper as you sand. Also, keep changing to fresh sandpaper as the metal wears the effectiveness of the sandpaper down very fast. I sand length wise on the bracelet across the existing brushed finish. Also, keep a dry soft towel close by and continuously wipe the bracelet dry to check your progress. The goal is to complete a consistent sanded finish on the sides that is completely flat in appearance. You should not see any of the original brushed finish marks for the wet sanding to be completed. After getting the finish uniform in appearance I use some fresh 600 grit sandpaper folded over several times and sand the bracelet sides again using pressure applied by my fingers (no file from here on out). Make sure you continuously dip the sandpaper in water, washing off the metal particles that build up. The softer surface of the folded sandpaper helps get into some of the high low spots that the flat surface of the file does not cover unless you plan on filing for a looong time with the sandpaper wrapped around the file. I then use some 1200 grit wet dry folded, followed by 2500 grit wet dry sandpaper if necessary (if you don't have a dremel to finish with, you will have to work down to 2500 grit sandpaper for sure) You can do the next part by hand, but a buffing wheel on a dremel is much easier. I then use a high quality polish like semi-chrome, Mother's Aluminum mag polish or my personal favourite - FLITZ (don't use jewelers rouge - it is too thick and the black residue gets in between the bracelet links and is way to time consuming to clean off - especially compared to one of the polishes mentioned. If you do it by hand the trick to making it easy on yourself is to keep flipping a soft terri cloth style rag (do not use T shirt type material) to a clean spot as you polish away. If you use a dremel be careful not to let the spinning wheel slip down an the to the top of the bracelet (I have tried taping the brushed finish of the bracelet to protect it, but truthfully if you slip with a dremel it is going to burn through the tape anyway) - just be super careful so that you don't have to spend a lot of time going back and re-brushing the top of the bracelet. Next you will have to clean the bracelet as it will be a mess. First wipe it down as clean as you can with a soft terri cloth rag - continuously using a fresh area of the cloth to remove the black residue. You should be able to get most of the residue with the cloth. Use an old toothbrush to dislodge the black residue in hard to get spots. Some people recommend cleaning the bracelet with a solution of water and liquid soap or a watered down solution of water soluble degreaser, but I prefer not to allow water on the bracelet at this point. You should be able to get all but the smallest amount of residue by wiping thoroughly with the clean soft terri cloth rag. The final thing I do to give the bracelet the "Gen" like feel is to completely soak the bracelet in a spray on lubricant like WD40 or silicon spray. I work the lubricant into the bracelet with my hands and then wipe it with another clean soft terri cloth rag, spay it again and keep repeating the process until the lubricant has penetrated deep into the links and the cloth comes out clean after wiping with the terri cloth rag. This process allows the lubricant to bond to the metal so that in the future, when you get your bracelet wet, the metal is protected and the water or whatever wipes of easily. You can use some auto wax before you use the spray on lubricant if you want to create an especially bullet proof finish on the metal, but it really isn't necessary. Hope this helps - bear in mind this is just how I do it, there are many other ways, but I guarantee if you follow these directions you will have a bracelet that feels, looks and lasts as well as any Gen bracelet out there. Good Luck! Edited November 7, 2007 by jake48 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millemiglia Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 WOW! You wrote a full tutorial!!! I once asked tips on re-luming and every body played "hush-hush" "secret-secret" ( ), I would certainly love to read a tutorial on that too. This should definitevely be pinned in the How to section!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobo57 Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 Hello everybody. This is my first topic and i would like to say that i also purchased DUAL TONE from Watchmaker9. Very impressive and very nice till last Saturday 1 December (Watch received beginning of November 2007). The pin that fix the bracelet to the case of the watch went off . I tried to put it back without success (it should be easy !). I went to a professional watchmaker and he also could not fix it. Looking at the other pin still fixed to the case of the watch, i can noticed that there is also something wrong. Personally speaking (i am not an expert but i own a real GMT and a real Aquaracer) i have the impression that the last part of the bracelet has been 'pushed' hardly to the case in order to be blocked (normally it should be fixed with the pin !) I sent 2 different mail to this person named 'George' asking an address where to ship my watch for repair or substitution and i am still waiting for an answer with the result that i have a over 500 dollar watch stored in my draw. Reading review and comment at www.watchmaker9.tv/forum, i should not be to much concerned (an answer from this 'George' should arrive any minutes) but i start to ask me about the quality of the product (i hope to be wrong and come back to this forum and inform that my watch has been repaired perfectly). Ciao, Roberto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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