How To Spot A Rep

[Victoria]

Now, we all have rep watches here, or that's the idea anyway.

But for those of us who are newbies or inexperienced still:

How about a quick-how-to guide on what veteran members use as criteria, for spotting a rep?

For example:

What is the first thing you target, when trying to spot a fake Rolex? The rehaut? The crown? The printing? The lume? How close do you have to be to the watch, to be able to ascertain its authenticity, FOR CERTAIN? With normal eyesight and being well-versed in the differences, would it be: across the room? 5 feet? A few inches?

Same goes for those of you who specialise in Panerais, or Omegas, etc. The crown guards and crown, the "A" in Panerai, the pushers, the chronos, the positioning of the HE valve, etc.

The level of expertise here is astounding. Many people say that gen owners don't have the ability to single out reps from gens, and I've found that to be true on some gen sites.

But that doesn't mean every rep watch owner, especially those beginning, have the same knowledge.

Perhaps some people would rather not know the "tells" their rep watches have, but some do. Please share if you can.

[guanaco]

I'm curious about this too, a guide like that would be greatly appreciated.

[Victoria]

The person who doesn't look right with their watch.

Are you saying, if the person drives up in a beat up hoopdee wearing a $20,000 dollar watch (if real), that's what you consider a tell or...did you mean something more esoteric?

Discomfort, lack of confidence. Noticing themselves too much.

I can see where that comes into play. But I myself am hyper conscious of my watches now, and whether gen or rep, I am always fussing with them, gazing at them, twirling them.

Not that these weren't some kind of starting off point, Jon, but the Guide aimed for something a little more nuts and bolts -- the kind which guys here love to talk about.

IOW, more technical stuff.

[Jawo]

I tap on the crystal just like someone whom I know of did on a Big Pilot

[sssurfer]

On PAM Luminors, the thing that you can spot 5m away is the crown thickness.

But let's suppose it's a good rep and I you have it in your hands.

In this case (and in order):

1 - Floppy CG lever (again on Luminors, obviously).

2 - On 6497 movements: swan neck regulator, recessed pinion.

3 - On date models: date font and mag.

4 - Lume.

5 - Numbers on the caseback (series, millesimation, etc).

(I feel the "A" undetectable other than on a side-to-side comparison with a gen).

And I am quite sure I am missing something here...

[Victoria]

On PAM Luminors, the thing that you can spot 5m away is the crown thickness.

But let's suppose it's a good rep and I you have it in your hands.

In this case (and in order):

1 - Floppy CG lever (again on Luminors, obviously).

2 - On 6497 movements: swan neck regulator, recessed pinion.

3 - On date models: date font and mag.

4 - Lume.

5 - Numbers on the caseback (series, millesimation, etc).

(I feel the "A" undetectable other than on a side-to-side comparison with a gen).

And I am quite sure I am missing something here...

Magnificent reply, thank you so much :sss:

So, basically with Panerai watches, one would have to be fairly close to tell if it's gen or not, unlike perhaps Rolexes?

Some other tells I can think of, to add to your wonderful list, is the tint of the AR. It's too purple on 127s, if a rep. Also, it may be too blue on the 44mms.

Another tell, in terms of authenticity, are fantasy PAMs. Obviously, if you see a non-working tourbillon, etc., it's not a gen.

[Shundi]

It's so amazing when you see a watch you think might be a gen only to have some of the veterans on the forum point out little things you'd never see otherwise. Thanks to all the veterans out there imparting their knowledge on us n00bs

[sweet]

Assuming these reps are top of the class,

For Rolex you can see across the room the metal shine. Then 5m you can see rehaut. Up close you can see pearl and crownguard.

For Panerai you can see the unmatching crownguard 5m. Dial font size, spacing, and color are dead give aways upclose. Movement is also too easy. Even modded panerais lack in these areas.

For Omega it depends on model but generally most Omegas have HE valve in the wrong place. Then the logo and AR.

The surefire way is to memorize all the rep serial numbers and take a look. Also, sunken datewheels and seconds in the wrong place is a give away too. I've picked out quite a few reps in my short life. But usually I just ignore or say something like "that's a nice ersatz watch you have there" with a smile (ersatz = fake) and they think it's a compliment.

[POTR]

Dude...

[rckh]

I could spot Rolex rep very easy; only place I look at the "Cyclop". Most of the Rolex rep cyclop are too close to the right side & u will notice the cyclop cover part of the indice at 3:00. I guess 5 meter only I could "Called it out"......LOL

Best Regards,

Raymond

[deltatahoe]

So, basically with Panerai watches, one would have to be fairly close to tell if it's gen or not, unlike perhaps Rolexes?

i feel like i can more easily spot a recessed cannon pin on a panerai than identify things that don't look quite right on a rolex, but maybe that's just me. i find judging rehaut on submariners from a distance is actually pretty tough...

just my $0.02...

deltatahoe

[FxrAndy]

39mm Aqua terra= The Omege text on the dial is underlined where it should be lined throught the middle.

UPO= The Omega Logo

SFSO= The 3, 6, 9 and 12 markers in the rehaute are not lumed and can be seen in the texture in daylight

Ingy= The date font, lack of AR on earlyer versions and if you can see the back then the small o in Co

General panerai= The canon Pin, thickness of the crown.

[gtd]

For breitlings:

Easy 5m rep call: If Double AR(or triple) is missing !!!

[piratedzeus]

TRIPLE ar?

[rckh]

TRIPLE ar?

No I think Quad AR

[FxrAndy]

I have just started a Word file and attached it to this post so that we can add points to it and keep it as an running document i think with the expertese here it could be a very good document in time, please feel free to download it add your points to it then re-attach it.

Edit changed it to ecell so that it can be tabbed for different makers

Rep_spotting_Guide.xls

[abat]

SFSO - Spiky lughorns but you might need to be a bit closer than 5m depending how good your eyes are!

[b16a2]

Breitlings

The Navitimer

The most obvious tells are;

- The lack of double AR on the crystal

- The date font is standard Asain/Swiss font, not as thick as the gen Breitling font

- The outter knurled bezel is usually a hairline to thick

- On the 3,6,9 - The date font is sunken,

- Single digit date numbers should be vertical, not on their side

- The 'B' on the end of the stopwatch second hand is also a very slightly different shape

Breitling Bentley (48mm)

- When you turn the bezel, the genuine's crystal doesn't move, the rep one does

- Lack of AR

- The 3,6,9 model suffers from a sunken date wheel

- The stopwatch second hand sweeps the watch every 30 seconds on the genuine

Breitling Bentley GT

- Lack of AR

- The rehaut is ever so slightly too thick

- Date font is different from the genuine

SOSF

- Sometimes the 12,30,45 markers on the bezel are misaligned

- Newer versions are seen with the wrong date font

Breitling Blackbird

- Pearl sits off centre

Chrono Evo

- On the earlier models, there was a missing marker after the 10, on the 12o'clock subdial

- Earlier models - lack of AR

- Ultimate - Wrong date font

[sssurfer]

So, basically with Panerai watches, one would have to be fairly close to tell if it's gen or not, unlike perhaps Rolexes?

Thanks for your appreciation, Vicky.

Yes, I would say yes. Apart from the crown and CG spacing, naturally.

Some other tells I can think of, to add to your wonderful list, is the tint of the AR. It's too purple on 127s, if a rep. Also, it may be too blue on the 44mms.

Yes, but I would add it to the "side-by-side comparison" only. Furthermore, even on the gens the AR tint is something quite variable.

Another tell, in terms of authenticity, are fantasy PAMs. Obviously, if you see a non-working tourbillon, etc., it's not a gen.

I would add: if you see a tourbillon from the front side, it's not a gen.

Unless the watch is rectangle-shaped, almost orange dial, and you also see a private aircraft, 100+ hot chicks, and a private army to defend it...

FxrAndy's guide with my add-ons (how could I attach it to your post, Andy?):

Rep_spotting_Guide.xls

[FxrAndy]

Ok what i will do then is coppy all of the points made in this post, into the document and then re up laod it

[ZainoDetail]

Good thread. To tell you the truth the only models that I can tell are reps are the ones that I own (Panerai and Breitling)

Even on the ones I own there's always something else that I wasn't completely aware of.

For instance AR should be a huge tell for most of us...but I remember before I even owned reps I never even noticed the AR on my gens...yet it's a tell on most reps

As for Rolex models...I'm completely uneducated and unless it was a horrible rep with a ticking second hand I'd be lost. As a car guy the Daytona is naturally one of the holy grail watches for me but I'm yet to pick up a rep because even I can't pick out the tells and I'm horribly afraid of the seconds @ 6 movement.

[chad]

From across the room the only ones I can tell are the reps that are supposed to have double AR and do not....iwc and breitling. I see a bentley rep once a day on the subway here in NYC with no AR. Usually getting on at 125 st

Double AR when called for is the best upgrade for a rep period.

The H series pam with too bright white font is another I see every few weeks.

It is such a terrible flaw in my opinion. So easy to spot and really makes the sandwich dial pop even less than it already does.

I have still not even seen one stained enough to match the gen. I had one from VAC that was darkened and next to a gen I had it was still a few shades brighter. Unmodded next to a gen it is laughable.

And any davidsen. I have seen one of two here in the city. The dials are so off you can see that from a few feet.

Though most great reps if you can pull them off with your lifestyle and dress not even the best expert on the board could tell without getting them in their hands.

Good thread. To tell you the truth the only models that I can tell are reps are the ones that I own (Panerai and Breitling)

Even on the ones I own there's always something else that I wasn't completely aware of.

For instance AR should be a huge tell for most of us...but I remember before I even owned reps I never even noticed the AR on my gens...yet it's a tell on most reps

As for Rolex models...I'm completely uneducated and unless it was a horrible rep with a ticking second hand I'd be lost. As a car guy the Daytona is naturally one of the holy grail watches for me but I'm yet to pick up a rep because even I can't pick out the tells and I'm horribly afraid of the seconds @ 6 movement.

[82KUBA]

How i can tell ..... 5500-7500k watch on ur wrist and u wearing a Wal-mart shirt and think taking ur girl to applebees is a night out on the town .....awwww rep and most likely a bad one

[Emmzy]

I seem to be able to spot any 'all gold' rep. Never seen an all gold rep that remotely resembles the original.

I always avoid gold rep watches for this reason.

[TeeJay]

As Jon and Kuba said, wearing an expensive watch, but maybe driving a crappy car, or wearing from the Bargain Basement are certainly potential give aways. I wouldn't judge location too much, as people do go to various places, and, who knows, someone might be travelling, so going into the first bar/eatery they find. I'm sure we've all done that at least once in our lives on a vacation... Things like fiddling with a watch, rolling up sleeves etc, I would say were individually judgeable. What might be one person's "Look at my watch, bitches!" might be another person's unconscious habit or style choice. Overall, I'd say the best tell, is obviously, the watch itself Fascinating subject though, and one which makes watch-spotting in stations/airports all the more fun