Manually winding an automatic movement....

[Nightstroker]

There has been a lot of debate over this issue....some people claim that it is just fine to go ahead and wind away on your automatic....others say that it is bad for the watch and it can strip the gears or damage the workings....

Me personally....I manually wind my watches about 15 rotations if they are out of juice....if it is running the next day then I just strap it on....

Please feel free to voice your opinion on this subject....I am sorry if this poll has been done before....my search results came up with nothing....

[freddy333]

If a watch is poorly made or in a poorly state, manual winding will only exacerbate an already bad situation. Otherwise, I am not aware of any problems inherent in manually winding an automatic watch. I have 3 or 4 self-winders that lost their rotors (because I removed them) which have been wound at least weekly (though not daily) for up to 4 years without any ill effects. This is 1 of those questions like 'Which is worse - running my watch on a winder for long periods or letting it wind down & sit idle?' -- opinions vary.

[RWG Technical]

I dont' think there is anything to debate.

Hand winding an automatic will eventually damage the click wheel(s).

The rotor is geared down from the rotor to the mainspring, meaning many turns of the rotor are needed to turn the mainspring gear once around. Reverse the flow and what do you get...geared up of course...

When you handwind the watch, this gearing down is now geared up, and 1/4 of a turn on the crown, makes the click wheels spin like crazy. They are not designed to withstand this speed or friction, they are designed to work with the slow rotor turns. The click wheels are two parts, the bottom half is connected to the mainspring gear, and the top half connects to the Rotor. If you remove the rotor the damage issue is gone, since the complete click wheels turn while handwinding and the wheels are locked together, it's when the rotor is attached that the click wheel bottom half freewheels and the clutches are getting spun around and get damaged.

I see this type of damage all the time, if you handwind constantly, then eventually you will hear and feel the rotor spinning due to the click wheels failing...it's a well documented fact. Click wheels are anywhere from $30 and up...as long as they are available. This is why most Japanese automatics, do not have the capability for handwinding.

There is nothing wrong with s-l-o-w-l-y handwinding an automatic a few turns to get it started when you first put it on, anything beyond this, and your damaging the watch.

RG

[nelly]

Rob,

Now that is something I have never come across before despite having had both manual wind and automatic watches for over 20 years....

Thanks for the info, I will be treating my automatics with much greater care from now on !

[RWG Technical]

Rob,

Now that is something I have never come across before despite having had both manual wind and automatic watches for over 20 years....

Thanks for the info, I will be treating my automatics with much greater care from now on !

Slowly and only until you get the watch going is not going to damage anything. Handwinding just for the sake of handwinding will eventually damage the clicks.

More of an issue with the ETA's in reps simply due to the fact the movements are all surplus and have questionable servicing to start with. A bit of old oil and gummed up wheels can damage them very quickly.

If you catch it soon enough, and clean the wheels throughly, it can be fixed without parts replacement.

If you can open any ETA automatic watch you have, have a look at the click wheels under a loupe when you hand wind the watch, you'll be shocked at how fast the bottom half of the clicks spin...when you see what is happening, you tend to be more careful.

RG

[bryana]

A related matter? .........

I have a 16610 LV Sub with Asian movement which I'm pretty pleased with. It looses 2-3 minutes a day but, for the price - GBP66.00 delivered, I'm happy.

If I run it down so that I have to manually wind it, I have noticed that I can turn that crown indefinitely. I've certainly turned it 150 times out of curiosity!

In other words it seems to wind ok but I can't feel any pressure/tension to indicate that it has fully wound.

This was immediately more noticeable when I purchased a SeaDweller with a better quality Swiss ETA engine - and twice the price! Here I have a much more accurate watch (+/- 15secs) and after 15 or so winds I can feel the tension.

Has anyone else experienced this? Is it a correctable fault? Should I be concerned?

What is certain is that, since reading The Zigmeister's post today, I will certainly keep the winds to a minimum.

[Emmzy]

The Zigmeister is right we know he is. I never hand wind an automatic......a couple of swirls gets all of mine going from a dead start, Asian or ETA both the same. Sometimes a day's wear fully charges othertimes not but as I aternate watches on a daily basis this isn't a problem.

[surpur]

The only thing I am worried about is that the threads on the crown or tube will wear out from opening it all the time.

Also that it might affect water resistance negatively. I try to avoid it.

[hooky]

Just a couple of times I did handwind the automatic watches. I remember looking through the sapphire case back, seeing those gears spin like crazy. Really fast while winding it. I already thought that this speed would possibly not be too good for the movement, while normally it would take ages to let the gears rotate a couple of times when being wound automatically.

The Zigmeister really put it together once again, explaining in detail how it works. Thank you so much for the info Rob!

[RWG Technical]

If I run it down so that I have to manually wind it, I have noticed that I can turn that crown indefinitely. I've certainly turned it 150 times out of curiosity!

In other words it seems to wind ok but I can't feel any pressure/tension to indicate that it has fully wound.

Totally normal...it's an automatic which means that there is a slipper clutch on the mainspring, once it's fully wound, the clutch just slips and slips on the side of the mainspring barrel. As for lack of tension while winding, again normal, it varies by movement type. ETA 2836 series, you can feel the tension, ETA 2892 series you feel nothing at all, no resistance while winding via the crown. It's all in the gearing, 2836 winds fully in about 25 turns, 2892 100+ turns for the same full wind...

Has anyone else experienced this? Is it a correctable fault? Should I be concerned?

What is certain is that, since reading Ziggy's post today, I will certainly keep the winds to a minimum.

See above answer...

RG

[bryana]

Thanks The Zigmeister, you've answered all my questions. It never occurred to me that movements could differ so much in their winding characteristics.

An extremely useful post

[chris5264]

There is nothing wrong with s-l-o-w-l-y handwinding an automatic a few turns to get it started when you first put it on, anything beyond this, and your damaging the watch.

RG

This was the issue for me and The Zigmeister was a great help getting me a new winding bridge, which is easy to install if you can find one. For me the problem was that this particular watch had a huge crown so when you did wind it by hand, it was easy to crank it very fast and put lots of pressure on the gears. After replacing a part like this,,,I only wind my autos one turn,,,very very slowly and that is it.

[Nightstroker]

Ok!...this is great news....now I know a little bit more about how I should be handling my automatics....I bet I can get a lot more life out of my reps if I just lay off the winding crown a little bit....

Too bad the admin moved this poll from G.D. to the Movement Q&A section where it is not getting enough attention....I know that the response would have been a lot greater in General Discussion....surely it would have helped a LOT more people in G.D....oh well....

Is there anyone out there who has the authority to move this poll back over to G.D.?

[cornerstone]

Too bad the admin moved this poll from G.D. to the Movement Q&A section where it is not getting enough attention....I know that the response would have been a lot greater in General Discussion....surely it would have helped a LOT more people in G.D....oh well....

Is there anyone out there who has the authority to move this poll back over to G.D.?

Not impressed. It's a movement question, in the movement question forum. The mods moved it to the correct place, as was already explained via PM. Deal with it. I don't think you could have asked for a better response than Ziggy's anyway!

[Emmzy]

One has to ask why would anyone ever wind an automatic watch?

[Nightstroker]

Not impressed. It's a movement question, in the movement question forum. The mods moved it to the correct place, as was already explained via PM. Deal with it. I don't think you could have asked for a better response than The Zigmeister's anyway!

Then make sure and move this one also....

Are there any Chinese movements....

Sorry you weren't IMPRESSED....but the poll is of a general nature....does not apply to any specific kind of movement or manufacturer....but to watches that have automatic movements in general....

Emmzy asked...."One has to ask why would anyone ever wind an automatic watch?"

Because some automatics are able to be manually wound....so one might be led to believe that an automatic should be manually wound....as to fully charge or power up the movement....evidentially this is wrong and unnecessary....even Rolex gen automatics feature a manual winding mechanism....I suppose that their mechanism is built to handle the wear and tear of manual winds....unlike the reps that we collect....

[FxrAndy]

The movements in the reps we collect is the same movement that are in the gen watches we collect, AKA Oris, Citizen, Invicta, breitling and many many more.

To be more specific if you had a Gen SOSF with a breitling cal 17 you should still only wind it gently if you realy must wind it at all far better is to rotate it in your hand to get it moving set the time and wear it, Why? becase under the engraved rotor and ploished bridges it is a plain and simple 2824/2 with the same clicks in the winding mech as the rep with a 2824/2.

[georgegrasser]

I find it hard to believe I can't normally wind an automatic.

How does one explain the PAM 090? The only way to fully charge the Power Reserve is to wind it.

Rotate an automatic in your hand? You end up with a watch that has stopped in about two minutes.

[TwoTone]

Look NS...

I moved your Thread to the proper Forum...

The Forum that will get the proper answer...

From the one whom the Forum was created - Ziggy...

If you were looking for a factual answer, you received it - right here, from Ziggy...

If you were looking for lots of Hits on your Thread...

Oh well...

TT <--- The Parking Cop

[FxrAndy]

I find it hard to believe I can't normally wind an automatic.

How does one explain the PAM 090? The only way to fully charge the Power Reserve is to wind it.

Rotate an automatic in your hand? You end up with a watch that has stopped in about two minutes.

What movement does your Pam 90 have? if it is an asian 21j then it should not be a problem as it only winds in one direction and therefor does not have the same auto wind mech as an ETA. But if it does not get fully wound on your wrist during a day of normal wear, there may be a problem with it, or your daily routind does not involve enough movement to fully wind the watch, may i sugest a test?

While wearing your watch on your working hand rent "Debbie does Dallas" watch the film to the end and note the PR of the watch once you are "finished". if it is fully wound then it is your routine, if the PR is not well charged it could be a problem with the watch. I hope this helps George.

Please insert some thing suiting your taste instead of "Debbie does Dallas" I personaly like "Stormtroopers in Suspenders"

[cornerstone]

While wearing your watch on your working hand rent "Debbie does Dallas"

:rofl:

[georgegrasser]

What movement does your Pam 90 have? if it is an asian 21j then it should not be a problem as it only winds in one direction and therefor does not have the same auto wind mech as an ETA. But if it does not get fully wound on your wrist during a day of normal wear, there may be a problem with it, or your daily routind does not involve enough movement to fully wind the watch, may i sugest a test?

While wearing your watch on your working hand rent "Debbie does Dallas" watch the film to the end and note the PR of the watch once you are "finished". if it is fully wound then it is your routine, if the PR is not well charged it could be a problem with the watch. I hope this helps George.

Please insert some thing suiting your taste instead of "Debbie does Dallas" I personaly like "Stormtroopers in Suspenders"

Yea. Like I didn't try that already. All I end up with is sticky straps.

[FxrAndy]

I bet you will never sell any of your old straps, Victoria already comlained about the smell of too much aftershave but this, we would never hear the end of it!

[Corgi]

I only handwind my MBK Nautilus because it WILL NOT get a full PR in daily wear... no matter how I shake it

[Victoria]

Please insert some thing suiting your taste instead of "Debbie does Dallas" I personaly like "Stormtroopers in Suspenders"

I suggest "Canadian Beaver" or my personal favourite, "Dr. Penetration".

You might have a job fitting the watch over the lobster claws though.

@FxrAndy: Of course! Dr. Penetration was the first pr0no I ever saw. I think I was 14 or so. I still harbour a secret yen for naked Twister in Wesson Oil, dressed as a Lobster Woman.