abat Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 I guess the other point to make is that a free watch to review would imply that this might not have been something that the reviewer has chosen themselves. This probably has a bearing on the review itself. If you'd seen a watch, considered the alternatives and then decided to purchase it you might have a very different view to if it had arrived in the mail and is effectively not your choice. Reviews of items we have been looking forwards to and loved enough to buy are likely to be quite positive I'd guess, those which are for items which are given for the express purpose of review maybe less so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 I would love to review many watches. Like a good DateJust ETA, Explorer I, Hublot Big Bang, a Breitling BCE, Breguet Aeronavale, or ANY dressy gold watch, etc, etc. I would never buy one of those models though (save the BCE)... but there's no doubt that I couldn't write an objective and passionate reviews of them. There are lots of watches that I like, but don't necessarily want to own. I think it's more like the opposite: Sometimes when you receive a new watch that you absolutely wanted to have you'll lose some of the objectivity. That's because you're hyped about your new purchase. I try to avoid that, but no doubt it has happened to me as well (occasionally). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 I guess the other point to make is that a free watch to review would imply that this might not have been something that the reviewer has chosen themselves. I agree.. choosing a watch you really like is a bit tricky.. For example send me a super-duper MBW Rolex Seadweller and I will be more objective than God because I simply it's not a watch that I love and I would wear. On the other hand if the watch would have been of a brand I do not 'follow' then I would not be the expert to do the review with the depth it should deserve. Selling the watch afterwards on RWG and the profit to go to the board is the best idea. But still yet another suggestion.. The dealer will send the watch for the review and then the person doing the review will have a 25% (or a percentage) off from his next purchase from him. The watch will either return back or sell to RWG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodwc Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 the forum isn't censored or manipulated by anyone. Censored, only to a degree of content and etiquette. Manipulated, or , what about , "steered in a certain direction by the seasoned members, " ( not mods. ) As Vic. stated "That a newbie would get cold feet about doing a watch review, after having read this thread." I am sure they would feel totally intimidated, by the whole process, if it ever came to this . That is why the majority of this forum is being "directed" Not that polls are popular with some, but I would bet that the majority would come out in favour over the fact that A totally experienced person, giving a review, should have no qualms or guilt, about taking a watch for a review. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 The idea of the reviewd watch being sold on to the good of the board is a very good idea. if the practice of sending watches out for review i belive the SAME watch should be reviewed by at least 2 pers to ensure that it is fully objective and it has the perspective of more than one set of eyes. If that review (both published at the same time results in increased sales then the daeler may want to treat those reviewers favorably on a future purchace. I Think that the reviewed watch should then go to the good of the forum. I do however belive that the reviewer should be rewarded for their time and effort in writing and photographing the watch. Reviewers with the skills such as Bytor and Pugwash must spend hours working on the reviews they write and it is only fair they be rewarded. I for one would love a colletor to send a PAM to Bytor for a review! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 I for one would love a colletor to send a PAM to Bytor for a review! No thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Oh come on that would be OBJECTIVE!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted February 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 For those interested, and for openness, this is the entire discussion I had with Angus: http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=10143 If you send me one for free, I'll post as many photos as you want. Next was a PM from Angus asking for my address. That's it. All the behind the scenes negotiating, splitting of profits, etc. Not as conspiratorial when it's that plain, is it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmzy Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 I've never trusted reviews. I don't need them. They are fun to read and in the main well put together. The acid test for me is feedback from regular people on the forums. Once I have gathered enough information and have learned to trust the poster of the info and feel confident enough to buy then I pull the trigger. I am in the process of buying a watch from a new dealer for me on the back of some nice photos and details posted by a member who has gained my trust and respect. I asked about price and the supplier, he PM'd me with the details....simple as that. Good feedback from 1 'normal' source is worth 100 'official' reviews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted February 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Good feedback from 1 'normal' source is worth 100 'official' reviews. Ok, this has to be the most surprising post I've read in the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmzy Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Ok, this has to be the most surprising post I've read in the thread. ^ Explain surprising.......it's a personal opinion! I'll tell you what is not surprising.......your attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted February 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Explain surprising.......it's a personal opinion! Opinions can surprise. Firstly, there are no official reviewers. The closest we get is By-Tor. Secondly, most people appreciate reviews. I'll tell you what is not surprising.......your attitude. You don't like me, I get it. Try to separate the argument from the person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Thanks for raising this issue Pug. Some years ago, I was reviewing DVD/Divx players for a major board focused on digital video. And met this very case all the time, as what happened here once (at least officially) happened actually all the time there. As a reviewer, one is obliged to think about the effects of his comments, and that's definitely not easy to handle. How to be fair and honest to the readers without making your sponsors angry ? Which is sure is that when the product is very bad, it will simply not be reviewed. That was a rule for me. But... Are we in this configuration here ? NO. Are the boards sponsored by dealers ? NO. And is Pug or anyone here an officially entrusted reviewer ? NO as well... So I see the problem as slightly different. In this case, it's really a personal decision, and I would never blame anyone to accept a free watch and review it, as long as : - he tells the background - I know him long enough to judge if he's reliable or not, that he has enough experience to raise the good/bad points on a rep Who here wouldn't be glad to get a free rep once in a while ? (and I'm sure that almost NEVER happens). As long as it's not a condition to make a positive feedback. On the other hand, who would accept to review a watch under defined or strict conditions coming from the dealer ? Noone as well. So, carpe diem Pug and wear your free rep in good health, it's neither stolen nor a proof of dishonesty... What should we say about dealers posting pictures and praising what they sell in other sections than their own ? I heard noone complaining. It could also be treated as a questionable habit. But we all are adults and know who we can trust and who we can't. Why would it be different with members ? Take the problem on the other side : how many dealers have benefited of increased sales thanks to a positive review without providing anything, not the smallest discount ? That's more the rule on the boards... And I saw noone complaining about this. If I was fortunate enough to have the same proposal as Pug had, I would not hesitate a single second ! (Angus, I have a list of 10 reps I NEED to review ! ) There would be criticism, and there would be people seeing no problem on that : that's the way it is... But as every reviewer here (and I also speak of those making single but fantastic reviews - remember Marinclinica and so many others-), everyone is free and has no obligation financially. Only moral ones, and I think that people like Pug are examplary on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 I've never trusted reviews. I don't need them. They are fun to read and in the main well put together. The acid test for me is feedback from regular people on the forums. Actually, "reviewers" ARE regular people here... Some even paid to enter the place. [Edit to clarify] I mean they have no advantage here over other members. They are treated the same way. I am in the process of buying a watch from a new dealer for me on the back of some nice photos and details posted by a member who has gained my trust and respect. I asked about price and the supplier, he PM'd me with the details....simple as that. Everyone has his own recipe and yours is good as well Good feedback from 1 'normal' source is worth 100 'official' reviews. Emmzy, there's no 'official' reviewer, only people that take a lot of their spare time because they like to share... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SportsterRider Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 About 12 years ago, I used to write reviews for an online magazine (a then still new concept) that dealt with PC games and gaming hardware. For the bulk of the time that we did the magazine, we didn't earn any cash, but we DID get to keep the hardware/software. We aways had a percentage of folks who used to claim we were biased, but I can tell you quite honestly that we were not. As a matter of fact, we would sometimes (mostly from the smaller software houses) be told that we weren't going to get anything further due to a poor review, but with the hits we were getting, only a handful actually followed through. Frankly, I think most folks will have a problem with this because: 1) They're jealous. 2) If it comes from an unknown reviewer If it's coming from a veteran member like Pugs, I think we can safely assume the review is unbiased. A member like that has given SO much to this community that many of us could add up all we've contributed and not scratch the surface of what Pug's has done for our hobby. And all of those prior contributions were for the benefit of this community. Overall, ya - we need to police this if someone like a Fliplockbuckle were to do it. From a trusted vet? Hey, I'm all for it! Nice review, Pugs. SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arminvanbuuren Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 can i sign up to be a reviewer? coz i would literally do a side by side gen reviews.. if i get watches for free.. but NOOOO never gonna happen is it? so don't worry about it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmzy Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 Opinions can surprise. Firstly, there are no official reviewers. The closest we get is By-Tor. Secondly, most people appreciate reviews. You don't like me, I get it. Try to separate the argument from the person. Note the 'official'.......put in this way as to not mislead, I know there are no official reviewers, just 'self-apponited' ones. If you read my post in full I acknowledge the 'official' reviewers. You still haven't answered my question.....why did you find my comment surprising? Still, yet again I am personally unsurprised that you failed to answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 It would be sad to turn this thread in a personal confrontation... :cc_surrender: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 It would be sad to turn this thread in a personal confrontation... :cc_surrender: Yeah, Batman vs. the Boy Wonder. Ticking time bomb came from the evil Joker. Holy refrigerator, this is going to be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arminvanbuuren Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 just read the rest of the post.. yes i agree with the others.. to avoid bias.. after the reviews.. the reviewer should put the watch forward to the board for an auction.. this way everyone have an equal chance to own the watch AND no bias in the reviews.. coz hell like i said if a 'reviewer' gets a free watch.. I WOULD LOVE to be a reviewer.. which isnt that hard imo to do a review.. and claiming that i'm "unbiased'.. ive done it before.. and for a free watch im willing to do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmzy Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 It would be sad to turn this thread in a personal confrontation... :cc_surrender: I would have liked my post to be answered in a more unpompous fashion as it has been by your good self, thank you and your points are well recieved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pafre Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 I have no problem with this kind of review as it usually allows to review lesser known product, as long as the integrity of the reviewer can be verified. Where I have a problem, it's if the reviewer sells the product for profits after the review. There is a thin difference between trading services and plain paying for someones services and if the reviewer sells the watch, to me that becomes the equivalent of being paid. But once again, this comes to the integrity of the reviewer. My 2 cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natron1 Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 For those interested, and for openness, this is the entire discussion I had with Angus: http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=10143 If you send me one for free, I'll post as many photos as you want. Next was a PM from Angus asking for my address. That's it. All the behind the scenes negotiating, splitting of profits, etc. Not as conspiratorial when it's that plain, is it. This is the part that may bother most people. "IF YOU SEND ME ONE FOR FREE, I'LL POST AS MANY PHOTOS AS YOU WANT" This is usually asked in a joking manner hoping owner of the merchandise will oblige. If he does you come out a winner and get the watch, and if he doesnt you say you were only joking. Many will be jealous that Pugs was given a watch, many are jealous that he is on a pedistool. All will make their own opinions. Sorry I have a 1 after my name now, I couldnt log in and had to re-register. Natron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 just read the rest of the post.. yes i agree with the others.. to avoid bias.. after the reviews.. the reviewer should put the watch forward to the board for an auction.. this way everyone have an equal chance to own the watch AND no bias in the reviews.. coz hell like i said if a 'reviewer' gets a free watch.. I WOULD LOVE to be a reviewer.. which isnt that hard imo to do a review.. and claiming that i'm "unbiased'.. ive done it before.. and for a free watch im willing to do it I can't agree with you : noone is appointed to review watches, so noone has any obligation. Our dealers can't follow basic rules (LWL), so why would involved members (again, taking on their personal time) have any kind of formal constraint ? The only rules I personally see here are the boards rules. (especially paragraph 7 of Behaviour...) Anyone, feel free to review as much as possible, this will make this forum further better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMK000 Posted February 3, 2008 Report Share Posted February 3, 2008 I do however belive that the reviewer should be rewarded for their time and effort in writing and photographing the watch. I agree. A free RWG VIP membership will not be enough ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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