A Letter to the Members

[hiker01]

Not always the case,...

Though I wish Neil the best of health, and feel for him, it's foolish to a degree of emotional silliness to dismiss all that has transpired in the long history of TTK the dealer, just because of it.

After all, business IS business and if he is, as is always stated, just a rich collector that dabbles in this trade for the benefit of us all, then I say relax and retire and get your health back as this game is full of headache that we have created with our spoiled demand for genuine quality in replicas.

Neil is Neil,

[gavidoc]

I do hope that Neil's health issues are genuine but unfortunately I've seen too many "dealers" (not just this hobby) who use the umbrella of medical issues (be it physical, psychological, etc.) as an excuse to protect their poor behaviour, poor business ethics, bad business decisions, and horrible communication.

Typically it has always occurred when a "group buy" was done. From my experience, the dealers see dollar signs as opposed to customers and happily gobble up as much as they can and then place an order. Normally they have a nice little markup for themselves that covers what they feel is a justified fee for their own commitment to the order and organization. Yet something always goes wrong. "It was lost in shipping. Customs got it. It's out of stock. My vendor is giving me grief." Then who gets screwed? Not the dealer. He just goes incommunicado. The consumer is hurt. They start screaming bloody murder after little communication from said dealer for months (or even years) and then finally they reappear to say they will make things right. They typically ask for a bit of time. Ask for people to "email them or PM them their phone numbers so that they can talk one on one." This normally buys the dealer a bit more time to try and find a way out of the situation. Typically a few more months go by with no real results and then from on high the dealer reappears and brings up one of the following:

1. Family problems (someone is really sick and they have to take care of them, someone close has died, someone is needing help moving are typical ones).

2. Personal problems (medical issues, depression are typical ones).

3. Financial problems (lost their job, busy at work, remember that this isn't their primary business afterall, are typical ones).

A few more months go by with no results. At this point it becomes a chicken match. who will outlast who. The dealer will eventually make up with most of those wronged but there will always be that one lingering issue (or few). In the mean time, the dealer continues to take orders and is especially consious to do an incredible job of serving those smaller orders. Why? So that when the pitchforks and torches are pulled out, the dealer will have a small group of members who can come to his/her defense saying,

"I've ordered from him.....No issues.....Quick and friendly...."

"Never had a problem.....excellent communication...."

"He'll come through....Don't worry....You have to remember, this is an illegal hobby....."

"He's been real busy with his real job lately.....Remember, this is just a hobby for him too....."

etc. etc.

Hope it really is medical issues? Absolutely. Skeptical? Absolutely.

HikeUSA,

While I agree that the consumer does have rights, the line, "The customer is always right" is pure and utter bullsh1t IMO. You have rights as long as you remain cordial yet stern, but once you cross the line and go into rude mode, all bets are off. Sure you could complain about a meal at a restaurant if you wanted to. Be nice to the waiter and all will be taken care of. Be rude to the waiter and your replacement order just might have something "special" in it when it is delivered. Trust me, I've seen it happen (7 years as a server in college). Why should he/she take good care of you when you aren't going to leave a tip but other tables will? (rhetorical question)

Note to all. I have not purchased from TTK. What I describe isn't TTK. It is the pattern I saw while adminstering the largest Replica Prop Forum (in a nutshell the TimeZone of Replica Props) on the internet for 2 years where we ended up banning around 20 bad dealers for the above issues.

[sam_tgg]

Most people keep working as they treat blepharitis. Some might take a few days to get it under control.

So you have a few issues that most people take care of with a visit or two to their doctor and a bit of care at home. They rarely miss work; so I think it's misleading to offer these as an excuse for anything.

Mendota, I am not a Doctor (I am engineer), but, can you talk about the serieness of someones health/problem, without seen him/her directly?

[Guest TTK]

(mendota @ Mar 11 2008, 08:12 PM)

Most people keep working as they treat blepharitis. Some might take a few days to get it under control.

So you have a few issues that most people take care of with a visit or two to their doctor and a bit of care at home. They rarely miss work; so I think it's misleading to offer these as an excuse for anything.

Thank you very much for your remote diagnosis Jeffrey........it's comforting to know that you can diagnose me from 8000 miles away...but disconcerting that you really don't have a clue as to the condition and symptomology of blepharitis....what were you a 'horse doctor".!

So...let me ask you a question......you've made substantial allegations against me....are you prepared to discuss this openly on the forum in the same fashion that you were 'open' about the product and service that you received from me.

I've prepared a total breakdown of ALL aspects of our discussions on Skype and elswhere which will demonstrate quite clearly that you are suffereing from Alzheimers....or indeed living up to your forum moniker....which as far as I can see would seem to suggest that you are both mendacious and in your dotage.

Now if you wish to present your side of the debate....and the conclusion is that I am lying...I will happily remove myself from this forum.....so what's it to be Doctor......you prove your allegations are true...and not falsehoods....or do you wish me to post the whole timeline...which clearly reveals that you have consistently lied in ALL your posts regarding our transaction.

A. Your 1st watch did not arrive 'frozen'.....you in fact had it and wore it from Nov 07 until Dec 03.

B. Dec 03 you notified me that the watch had stopped running and in YOUR own words ' I pulled the crown roughly and broke it'.

C. You communicated to me IN WRITING that YOU would have it repaired locally.

D. That you made an enquiry to buy 3x knives that I had advertised.

E. That I called you on my dime....and we agreed that I would send you the 3x knives FOC by way of small compensation for your 'rough handling' of the 1st AP.

D. That you never acknowledged receipt of the knives....not even a small thank you.

F. That you rordered a second AP.....although in your dotage you keep referring to it as a Patek Phillipe Nautilus....whcih I've never sent to you.

G. That you received the 2nd item on Feb 04 2008.....and that YOU never once communicated to me...( despite the fact that I offer a guarantee with ALL my watches)......that the 2nd AP arrived frozen.........I heard NOT ONE WORD FROM YOU.....HOWEVER you did see fit to post on the various forums that TTK had sent you not 1x...but 2x watches that were "frozen"....when they arrived.....one of which you maintain still was a PP......you never at any point in time......contacted me to express any concerns over the item......!

That tells me that the 2nd AP I sent....fully checked and sent at the same time as 3x other members....NONE of whom had a problem......you more than likely 'rough handled' that watch also......what say you Doc.....are you lying or can you back up your allegations.....?

[andreww]

See, this is the problem with threads like this. I've known TTK for a long time. To this day I have never experienced the type of exemplary customer service that I received from him. In every instance that I see someone complaining that they didn't get a watch, or that it arrived DOA, TTK ALWAYS has the evidence to show that the person was stretching the truth, if not blatantly lying.

[hiker01]

I do hope that Neil's health issues are genuine but unfortunately I've seen too many "dealers" (not just this hobby) who use the umbrella of medical issues (be it physical, psychological, etc.) as an excuse to protect their poor behaviour, poor business ethics, bad business decisions, and horrible communication.

Typically it has always occurred when a "group buy" was done. From my experience, the dealers see dollar signs as opposed to customers and happily gobble up as much as they can and then place an order. Normally they have a nice little markup for themselves that covers what they feel is a justified fee for their own commitment to the order and organization. Yet something always goes wrong. "It was lost in shipping. Customs got it. It's out of stock. My vendor is giving me grief." Then who gets screwed? Not the dealer. He just goes incommunicado. The consumer is hurt. They start screaming bloody murder after little communication from said dealer for months (or even years) and then finally they reappear to say they will make things right. They typically ask for a bit of time. Ask for people to "email them or PM them their phone numbers so that they can talk one on one." This normally buys the dealer a bit more time to try and find a way out of the situation. Typically a few more months go by with no real results and then from on high the dealer reappears and brings up one of the following:

1. Family problems (someone is really sick and they have to take care of them, someone close has died, someone is needing help moving are typical ones).

2. Personal problems (medical issues, depression are typical ones).

3. Financial problems (lost their job, busy at work, remember that this isn't their primary business afterall, are typical ones).

A few more months go by with no results. At this point it becomes a chicken match. who will outlast who. The dealer will eventually make up with most of those wronged but there will always be that one lingering issue (or few). In the mean time, the dealer continues to take orders and is especially consious to do an incredible job of serving those smaller orders. Why? So that when the pitchforks and torches are pulled out, the dealer will have a small group of members who can come to his/her defense saying,

"I've ordered from him.....No issues.....Quick and friendly...."

"Never had a problem.....excellent communication...."

"He'll come through....Don't worry....You have to remember, this is an illegal hobby....."

"He's been real busy with his real job lately.....Remember, this is just a hobby for him too....."

etc. etc.

Hope it really is medical issues? Absolutely. Skeptical? Absolutely.

HikeUSA,

While I agree that the consumer does have rights, the line, "The customer is always right" is pure and utter bullsh1t IMO. You have rights as long as you remain cordial yet stern, but once you cross the line and go into rude mode, all bets are off. Sure you could complain about a meal at a restaurant if you wanted to. Be nice to the waiter and all will be taken care of. Be rude to the waiter and your replacement order just might have something "special" in it when it is delivered. Trust me, I've seen it happen (7 years as a server in college). Why should he/she take good care of you when you aren't going to leave a tip but other tables will? (rhetorical question)

Note to all. I have not purchased from TTK. What I describe isn't TTK. It is the pattern I saw while adminstering the largest Replica Prop Forum (in a nutshell the TimeZone of Replica Props) on the internet for 2 years where we ended up banning around 20 bad dealers for the above issues.

I agree completely with you, but since you pointed out that I deserve what TTK dished on me, may I point out, again that I did not flame until he insulted me personally! Please go back to PAGE 1 and re-read it.....actually here is where I started to respond to TTK:

Respond #6

So, Neil, what do you propose to replace the GMT with???? And Since you have my DRSD IN the UK already, would you be kind enough and tell your courier to send that now! If you are serious about meeting your commitment, then give us a choice as a replecement for the GMTs!

Thanks!

Was that rude to you? and this is TTK's response:

@Hike....I chose not to respond to your thread elsewhere for obvious reasons....however whilst I may be in danger of losing my sight.....I'm in no danger of losing my wit nor my sarcasm.... it seems that as well as being impatient....you are also comprehension challenged.....I asked for those members who were waiting to "send me a tel number so that I needn't go into lengthy discussions onscreen"....seems that went way over your head.....here's one thing that won't.....those members who do send me their number....I'lll take care of them both in terms of their order.....and in compensation.....rest assured....you'll also be taken care of....just that you will be at the very bottom of my list.

Now, let me asked you, is that response insulting? or what? Most of the folks here well, say "Well its just TTK being TTK"! Duh! Then that goes against what you just said...about being cordial and what not!

[andreww]

Seems he was pretty clear, "members with issue please send phone number".

You continue to post your details publicly and expect him to respond. Did you read his first post? Did you send your number? When it comes to a dealers credibility, simply posting publicly is as much as bad as an insult.

[oki]

Hi Neil,

Firs of all...I do hope for a speedy recovery. and the second... can you tell me the status of my NOOBMARINER??

Thanks Neil.

[andreww]

Hi Neil,

Firs of all...I do hope for a speedy recovery. and the second... can you tell me the status of my NOOBMARINER??

Thanks Neil.

Did you send him your phone number?

[Guest TTK]

So, Neil, what do you propose to replace the GMT with???? And Since you have my DRSD IN the UK already, would you be kind enough and tell your courier to send that now! If you are serious about meeting your commitment, then give us a choice as a replecement for the GMTs!

Thanks!

My proposal was that you send me a tel # and I would have worked it out with you.....all I asked you to do was be a little patient...I even stated that I would compensate those who had been waiting and who were patient.....you decided that you didn't want to be patient........you either didn't read my request in the post......or decided to go your own way....and start a vendetta against me...calling me a scammer.....and everything else under the sun......I didn't insult you......you achieved that on your own.....I merely pointed out that your ability to read what I posted was limited.

As it stands....I have a GMT coming in for you.......unfortunately as well as my health I have other people to attend to.....so do you mind if I ignore you just now...I'm a little pre-occupied.

[hiker01]

My proposal was that you send me a tel # and I would have worked it out with you.....all I asked you to do was be a little patient...I even stated that I would compensate those who had been waiting and who were patient.....you decided that you didn't want to be patient........you either didn't read my request in the post......or decided to go your own way....and start a vendetta against me...calling me a scammer.....and everything else under the sun......I didn't insult you......you achieved that on your own.....I merely pointed out that your ability to read what I posted was limited.

As it stands....I have a GMT coming in for you.......unfortunately as well as my health I have other people to attend to.....so do you mind if I ignore you just now...I'm a little pre-occupied.

No problem Neil! I hope you get well soon.....seriously, we could have problems with our business, but I am not wishing you ill health! Two different things! Take as much time as you want! It's ok and I mean it! AND TO SHOW YOU I'M SINCERE ABOUT IT....I'LL TAKE DOWN MY SIGNATURE! JUST TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF! You should really enjoy your beautifull sunny weather out there in Thailand!

Hike!

[andreww]

I'm feelin the love, are you?

[gavidoc]

HikeUSA,

Please understand I wasn't saying you were being rude, just that the belief that as a customer you are always right no matter what is not quite true. I personally thought you asked a valid question even though you chose not to phone him.

@gavidoc,

Glad you added the caveat -"what you describe is not TTK". Since you've no personal experience with TTK, I find it odd that you would take the time to post in this thread and characterize him as the same 'bad dealers' (in pattern) at your prop forum. Curious if your 'bad dealers' you mention were respected members of your industry with over 4000+ sales of replicas, and then had 7 or 8 members waiting on a prop, as the case here with TTK? TTK has been on these replica fora for the better part of 8 years with a track record that includes a fair share of extremely satisfied customers, littered with faulty communication, and now tardy deliveries. Despite his current health woes, I see a collector who is making every attempt to rectify these handful of outstanding order issues.

Quite a few of the "bad dealers" were once well respected members of the prop community. Guys who had been around for years (the RPF first started back in 1994 via an old message board before moving to EZBoard and then on to a PHP board like this one) and had been selling their product for a while. One of them was even a former moderator of the RPF. 5postboy made fantastic pieces for years and then just stopped after he took a bunch of money from members. EDC Studios was one and continues to sell via the web to this day to people who are unaware of his business practices. Another that comes to mind was Jedi135 (Tim was his first name but I don't remember his last). He had been a well respected member who sold fantastic product but got in over his head and ran off with a lot of members' money. Vadermaker was another. I could probably come up with a few more that were long standing members if you so choose. It happens to all types, established dealers as well as those who are new.

Why did I post my own experiences, I see a few being admonished for voicing up about issues they have had by other members. Could some voice them more effectively? Absolutely but this sad scenario (for all involved) follows a very basic pattern (from my own experiences) when it comes to product that skirt the line of legality and it might for others as well.

On the flip side, there were dealers who dropped off the face of the earth for valid reasons. GFollano who made fantastic stormtrooper armor had Lucasfilm drop a cease and desist on him and a hefty lawsuit. Exedge was issued a C&D as well. Another guy was in a really serious car accident and IIRC, I think another was diagnosed with a pretty serious illness. I should have put this into my first post as well but apologize as I forgot to.

[peepshow]

Well, since my original post was deleted, along with at least one post from Neil, I'll post it again.

Get well soon, Neil. If you've lost any friends over this, perhaps they weren't really your friends to begin with...

[TwoTone]

Well, since my original post was deleted, along with at least one post from Neil, I'll post it again.

Get well soon, Neil. If you've lost any friends over this, perhaps they weren't really your friends to begin with...

Peep:

Yours and one of Neil's posts were set invisible for a very specific reason...

It will be disclosed why in a separate [new] thread in a little while...

TT

[peepshow]

Gotcha. Thanks for the heads up, TT!

[marrickvilleboy]

ahhhh the morality behind friendship..

god i hate philosophy.....

get well though Neil.

[oki]

Did you send him your phone number?

I can

[KB]

There has been an announcement by your Admin team that now makes this thread defunct, please go back to the main board to read it.

Ken