stilty Posted March 10, 2008 Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 wine and hookers! You mean hookers and blow! Wait, that's the music business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted March 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 Yeah, the clasp is the real weak part according to those that have sided with the skeptics. If there were just one or two things that looked suspicious, it wouldn't have raised nearly the questions, as the bracelet halves and end pieces certainly look like a step forward- although we have no reference point to be able to make that comparison. I guess there's an inconsistency when it comes to the fact it's supposed to be NOS, with regard to some of the finish on the exterior, I think also involving the coronet. My guess is that this an entirely new replica bracelet, if it is indeed a replica. Last night I tried to look at the profile of the side of the bracelet, to try to see if I could detect either greater thickness in the 'NOS' one, or this supposed flaw with the center links. I couldn't spot it. Looked to me like the numbers on the endlink should have extended further onto the 'tab' as well, but there is a lot of variation, admittedly, so it's possible that they are just different. One of the potential issues, again from only a logical consistency and plausibility perspective, is that these 'constellations' of suspicious qualities only show up together on this particular bracelet...unless someone can come out and prove that wrong, and right now it's the side of the skeptics that seems to advancing the theories at this stage due to the resistance of the experts on the other side to even address the issue directly. They could put it to bed so quickly, but it hasn't yet happened to my knowledge. The more time that goes by where there isn't an alternate response to fill the vacuum, the more validity I think it will carry. Oli, if you made it this far, I remembered I also have those 93150 links too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted March 10, 2008 Report Share Posted March 10, 2008 Post good, clear pictures of the NOS bracelet in question to the Rolex Vintage forum on TZ. The experts there will be able to provide the most definitive answer short of Rolex itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted March 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 Feel free to do your own research on these, I've determined without a shadow of a doubt in my own mind that these are fakes. Those of you still holding out will come around once these things get properly identified as fake. If it were me, and I had one of these things, I would consider getting rid of it before they become common knowledge- which is already happening, and I'm pretty sure is the only reason I scored on my bracelet. One thing to be aware of: until the market fully recognizes that these are fakes, there are some great deals to be had on gen 7836's, because the prices are getting artificially deflated due to the fakes. I'm pretty sure that's the only reason I scored the deal I did on mine- it was coming from Hong Kong just like the fakes, and it scared people off. If you're a seller, you check the completed auctions to get an idea of the market value, get fooled by the fakes going for $400, and price their bracelets about 50% too low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stilty Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted March 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 I hear what you're saying Stilty- all I'm recommending is that people do their own research on these, I'm not trying to be negative, but rather look at what I'd do if in a similar position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stilty Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mezzanine Posted March 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 mmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carlsbadrolex Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 I have only made nonsensical comments in this thread in an attempt to add some comic relief... But, I feel the need to now comment on this issue. Am I an authority on ANY of these topics, NO. Am I someone who has a passion for watches, YES. Just a few weeks ago a comment was made that basically stated I was here for very selfish reasons and didnt care much for the community at large. And although I dont feel the person who made the statement has enough information available to him to make such a statement... its partially true. I am here for very limited reasons. ONE is to buy watches which otherwise may be difficult to find. Another is to sell those watches that I have grown bored with (sometimes this process doesnt take very long). But the biggest reason I come to this site is to LEARN. See, I work 12-14 hour days and have a family and a social life. I dont have the time or patience to sit in front of a computer doing research on topics such as "the proper bracelet for vintage Rolex watches" or " is this FAKE and am I getting screwed". When I CAN help someone, with very basic information or experiences pertaining to theirs... I do. But I WOULD NEVER take for granted those who come here with such noble intentions as Mezzanine. NOW, do I say that because I consider him a "cyber-friend"??? NO, I say that because I have spent ALOT of time in PM and email discussing our mutual fondness for vintage Rolex watches. I KNOW the number of hours he spends doing research for his projects. He often contacts me and says, "hey... look at this deal. JUMP ON IT". or "HEY, steer clear of that guy...". Stilty, I dont know if your bracelet is real or fake. To be quite honest... I dont care. If YOU like it and YOU feel you bought it at a fair price... THEN GREAT! Its not too often that people here feel they got a good deal on something, and Im glad to hear that you feel that way. BUT I also understand that Mezz intentions are noble. He isnt trying to CALL YOU OUT or make light of the possibility that you were taken for a ride. He is simply trying to convey HIS opinion (after hours of research). If he is correct, I hope you are still pleased with your bracelet. If he is wrong... then I am pleased that you got a great deal. I have done some looking into this topic myself... and I believe that if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, its probably a pheasant. In time, we will see if these suddenly appear for $50. And if they do, I will be first in line to buy five or ten of them! With all the love and non-selfish intentions I can muster... CBR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POTR Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 Some HK entrepreneur has acquired the tooling they were turning out fakes with twenty to thirty years ago... great. Passing them off as Gen... not so great... we'll have to wait longer for them to be affordable... unless we pick up old fakes at the flea market... Thinking a vintage bracelet, because it is authentically old and stretched, is more likely to be a Gen... not so smart. Remember... fakes have been available forever, they probably equaled or exceeded production numbers of the Gens just as they do now, and they age just the same.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star69 Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 what you guys think of this on - gen - rep -garbage ? Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmythree Posted March 14, 2008 Report Share Posted March 14, 2008 quote = What you guys think of this on - gen - rep -garbage ? Frank /quote I have a few of these and they are OK...after all, they lasted over 20 years. Most were made by JB/Champion or C&I and you can find similar bracelets on other watch brands. Bulova used similar bracelets in the 1970s...most are 18mm or 19mm but they work fine with 20mm lugs as long as you use 20mm hoods. They sold for about $39 new and were available from USA rolex retailers. The local rolex AD had them on a rotating display on the counter. The sloppy fit of the hoods tends to wear serial and reference numbers off and rough up the under sides of the lugs though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDad22 Posted March 15, 2008 Report Share Posted March 15, 2008 Just to clear the air.. there has been for a couple of years replica bracelets around.. i bought one off of ebay.uk for $119 shipped to me in the US.. it fits flawlessly my MBW/WM vintage 1680 and 1665 cases... if it was not for the price I would have thought maybe it was NOS, plus someone in HK sent me a link to the seller's ebay id.. Mac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 Now this maybe unconnected to the root of this thread, but I have been watching a seller on fleabay for the past few months, and just about every month, a folded link strap comes up for sale. There is one up at the moment which I am watching / want (probably shot myself in the foot here). Item number: 250225133333 Now how come this chap has these on a regular(?) basis. They look gen (complete with the muck of decades) but now, because of the frequency with which they are appearing, I am starting to doubt! What do you guys think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Just thought I would bump this topic. It seems like 2 years ago, we were seeing "NOS" 7836 bracelets coming from Hong Kong being sold on ebay. The about a year or so later, Josh introduced the 1655 with the really good 7836 bracelet. Now we are seeing lots of NOS 9315 bracelets coming out of hong kong. Its weird that some sellers on ebay seem to have an endless supply of these NOS 9315's. Maybe in a year we will see a rep 9315 bracelet make an appearance. Im shocked that there is no really GOOD 93150 or 9315 bracelets out there. Its only a matter of time before we see one pop up. There was also a post of VRF noting a really good fake 9315 thats almost better than the Rolex version and has thicker folded links. Hopefully soon something comes out. What do you guys think? Dizz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lhooq Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 They're coming from multiple sources, too. The 7836 that debuted on Josh's 1655, later sold separately by other dealers, is a great bracelet for the money, but still has significant flaws relative to the gen. Yuki's much pricier 7836 looks to be an improvement in most respects, but still doesn't take gen-size springbars. And it's currently unavailable. I'm suspicious of many of the bracelets being sold on eBay, even from sellers who are positively referred on VRM. Why, for example, have I seen so many used 7836s with 258 endlinks? Are these not, in fact, "extremely rare" and "specifically and only for the Milgauss 1019" (to quote an exotic watch dealer)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomad89 Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Shouldn't the "STEELINOX" be etched while the rest of the clasp lettering be stamped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 I'm suspicious of many of the bracelets being sold on eBay, even from sellers who are positively referred on VRM. +1 I got the same vibe from the sudden avalanche of "unobtainable" NOS bezels that flooded the 'bay a few months ago. And some of those sellers are esteemed VRM / TRF members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 I say GOOD. I really hope the market is flooded with these things, and that they continue to improve. I am blown away by the absurdity of what people are selling/buying so called gen vintage bracelets, that are junk. This is one area where being a "Purist", especially from a franken perspective makes no sense to me. YMMV..... If I owned a GEN DRSD for example, that was worn daily, I sure as hell would not put an old, rattly, stretched out, ready to break 9315 or 7836 on it. Bring on quality aftermarket clones/reps and their acceptance!!!! Just price them accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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