Reduced to 125% of original cost!

[fotoman]

You can't research prices as we delete all the old sales when they're done.

First of all, pugs, you of all people should know what happens to a good thing, when some people get to personally invested in arguments

Second - the 2nd hand market is a market - everyone's examples here are mostly about watches sold by the cartel that can be gotten cheaper from silix ect. he was selling eta PO's for 150 when others were selling used for 220.

The info is out there, no one hides it, the dealer websites are linked, talked about openly.

If the dude is saying that his is 99% close to the gen - then, we say, thats false

corgi, said, we have to stop false and misleading ads - i don't disagree, but if someone simply speaks the truth, and its not misleading - and you all know i mean really misleading. Then leave it alone. Its more trouble than its worth.

And re: my eddie lee story - for those of you who were around 2 1/2 years ago, it was a different world, NO one had posted prices, you had to inquire on everything and everyone got different pricing on the forum IN FACT - it was considered BAD FORM to discuss prices that dealers gave us. - You believe that? we used to protect the dealers rights to rip off the newbs.

Anyway, Eddie lee was the first person to have an H series pam - the first sandwhich dial in a luminar case - - except, it was basically a radiomar dial 47mm in a 44 mm case -so the numbers were like hugging the outside.

I paid 400 for it - and i think it was a asian movement!. within 2 months people were selling the same for like 280.

Eddie would claim all kinds of special products and have ridiculously high payments

Remember when Saphire Fiddy's were 600 bucks! no one thought it would get cheaper.

Point is - just stay out of the private sales, unless there is something seriously wrong - if someone wants to offer a large price for more than they bought it? then shame on the newb for not going to the links section and checking out the sites and looking at the pricing.

you will end up causing more heartake than its worth.

the one thing you need to learn from the forum is that research is everything - it takes awhile and some trial and error to learn it.

You can only lead a newb to water, you can't make him click on the reffered links

[Guest Carl]

I have been reading this from the start and apparently no one is going to bell the cat so I am going to do it.

Up until now I had a high opinion of the moderating team's desires to keep patently offensive stuff off this board. It's been very good until now.

It's not important whether I personally am offended by the childish, scatological, culturally offensive drivel contained in the original post.

The fact is, it's intended to offend, by someone who is apparently unable to make the logical point in any other way.

Carl

[Snrubb]

Carl, your post is at least as inane as the original message.

[Guest Carl]

Carl, your post is at least as inane as the original message.

Oh, I don't think so.

But welcome to the forum anyway!

Carl

[Chronus]

Hey guys, I am offering a new service that have been proved very popular in the past. I have a watchbox, and inside the watchbox, it has pillows. For those of you want to try out my service, simply send it to me, and I will watch it for you and put your watch on my watch pillows, and watch them go to sleep each night. 6 to 9 months later, I can ship them back to you for a modest fee of $25. But I promise you, each night as I watch your watches to sleep, it will be full of TLC. does anyone want my new service?

Will my watch get a R eal B low J ob first? I know that'll be charged for too, I presume? And then the watch will be too tired, it will need a stint on your pillows...

Peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...

Edited April 3, 2008 by Chronus

[Chronus]

And re: my eddie lee story - for those of you who were around 2 1/2 years ago, it was a different world, NO one had posted prices, you had to inquire on everything and everyone got different pricing on the forum IN FACT - it was considered BAD FORM to discuss prices that dealers gave us. - You believe that? we used to protect the dealers rights to rip off the newbs.

Anyway, Eddie lee was the first person to have an H series pam - the first sandwhich dial in a luminar case - - except, it was basically a radiomar dial 47mm in a 44 mm case -so the numbers were like hugging the outside.

I paid 400 for it - and i think it was a asian movement!. within 2 months people were selling the same for like 280.

Eddie would claim all kinds of special products and have ridiculously high payments

Remember when Saphire Fiddy's were 600 bucks! no one thought it would get cheaper.

I came on the scene in the last 3-4 months of RWG1 (before RWG2 began) so luckily missed out on that ... but I did remember EL's exclusives, as well as the asking of each dealer and getting different quotes. Only silix (and Paul) had a site at the time which gave transparency in pricing, while each other dealer would give you differing prices via PM/emails.

Anyway, wasn't EL "exclusive" with the first IWC 3717s? And the "Cartel" were exclusive with the first bunch of Big Bangs (and still are on the very highly priced ceramic bezel ones, I believe) and the IWC Cousteau Aquatimer... this premium pricing still seems to apply here, unless it is someone like silix, who seem to keep prices down on their "exclusives" like the good version of the VC Overseas, etc.

I remember back then each dealer seemed to have their own exclusive... so you'd go to josh for his PAM036 or ceramic J12, or EL for his PAM127 or andy for his 42.5mm 4th gen PO etc

Edited April 3, 2008 by Chronus

[archibald]

Carl, looking over my wifes shoulder, I see they're very politely discussing cupcakes over @ marthastewart.com. BTW, I'm trying as hard as I can to figure out what's "culturally offensive" in th OP. I'm thinking it's the word "retard." But wouldn't most of your fellow PC policemen..er..sorry...law enforcement officers call that a "pejorative label?"

[TwoTone]

@Forum

OP has been edited...

For language and offensive content...

TT

[mezzanine]

I came around near the same time that Chronus did, and it's shocking how much the business of replica watches has changed over that relatively short period of time.

I brought this topic up sometime around the summer. At the time, I perceived the sales board as the primary incentive for people to donate to the site, and that the benefit of membership was that you could price gouge newbs. I feel that in this hobby there is an almost pyramid-like aspect to the hierarchy of information. The newbs basically subsidize the vets by virtue of their ignorance and their lack of understanding of the replica game. They come here and think that if someone is a veteran and is credible, that they can avoid making their own valuation of the watch because the other person is an expert and will have applied their own more experienced judgment.

That's why when someone mentioned how "way back when" the prices weren't talked about publically- otherwise the newbs wouldn't be subsidizing those that have been around and developed contacts/relationships.

I think it would be easy to assume that I'm placing blame, or that I'm suggesting that this perception is valid. That's not the case. In ANY market, the dumb money is going to change hands to the smart money. Not just the rep market. Insiders and those with knowledge about the market and connections are going to snap up pieces that are discounted from their intrinsic worth.

At the same time, I haven't been able to log into the darkside for a while now, but when I would watch their sales section, there was generally better value and volume. The phenomenon didn't seem as bad to me there- and that might be in part because the mods are watching for it, but my point is that it's not 'inherent' to the replica game, as it's not as bad there as it is here (with regard to this specific issue).

[giorgio]

I'd apologize if I had offended anyone, but I'm sure it wasn't the language that offended people as much as the content.

In fact, th OP was intended to offend - to offend both those who would gouge members here, as well as those who would gladly let it happen. What I don't understand is how someone could argue against warning fellow members when they're about to get ripped off, and claim a moral high ground while doing so.

[TwoTone]

I just read through our RULES again...

And I find nothing that states you can't protect the community from being ripped off...

If an ad strikes you wrong...

Post...

But don't attack...

Use proper etiquette...

justmytwocents

TT

[Pugwash]

The info is out there, no one hides it, the dealer websites are linked, talked about openly.

Openly? This info is only really available to members, remember.

And I find nothing that states you can't protect the community from being ripped off...

"Is this the same watch that's available from Silix for $125?"

Like this?

[MAHLER]

Different point of view... one common place... RWG not a simple forum but a babel community

[RWG Technical]

In February 2005, I paid $525 for a PAM 118 with a standard Unitas 6497 with glued on engraved "Panerai" plates. It was bought from Eddie.

During those years, prices were NOT published, or spoken about in the open.

Did I get ripped off?

I think so...but I had no avenue for asking anyone in the open if this was a "reasonable" or "acceptable" price for this watch. So I paid the asking price, and once I had the watch, I had a sinking feeling that I was bent over and taken advantage of.

Unless someone is advertising something that is misleading or an outright lie, then I think there is nothing that can be done towards helping someone not pay too much or get mislead. A new member doesn't have the knowledge of those who have been here a while, a new member doesn't know who does good and who does questionable work, a new member doesn't know what has gone on and been said, a new member doesn't have the contacts that the senior members have, and can only go by what the advertisement states. If no one speaks up in the ad, well then it MUST be a good price or watch with quality work and genuine parts.

If I had joined this forum 6 or less months ago, there is nothing to inform or point me towards doing my own research on certain modders and the quality and service they provide, or the prices they charge. If I was vain enough in Feb 2005 to pay $525 for a 118, I am sure others who have been here for 6 months or less know nothing about RBJ, Flav, Watchbuff, and other modders who have since left RWG for greeener pastures (and less critisime).

Speaking up will only cause more division and hard feelings among members, which is why as of Jan this year, I decided to stop trying to inform members of what I see and know. And as I stated earlier, I will not be adding one comment on any sales post that isn't an outright lie, or totally misleading.

If a new member sees a watch with hundred's, or even a thousand dollars in mods, and thinks that at 50-75% of that price he's getting good value, so be it, I won't be telling him (her) what I know.

RG

[By-Tor]

A little OT, but about the member-member trades...

During the years I have bought lots of watches from fellow members. Like 20-25 or so.

And guess what: I have never, ever had ONE SINGLE PROBLEM. I always received what I was supposed to receive... I've been 100% satisfied. Talking about perfect track record... our membership is amazing (generally).

If the member is well known, trusted and has good reputation I say go for it. He has already QC:d the watch for you. If a rep functions perfectly after say, 5 months of use, it will probably function after 5 years of use as well. Dropshipping is a serious problem. So in that sense I understand prices that are near what the watch sells for new... if the watch is in great condition of course.

It's obvious that the new members don't have the experience and friendships that we more seasoned members do. Newbies should probably stick with the dealers only, and avoid the member trades.

$900 for any replica watch is just too much. There's no way you can justify that kind of price... it's absolutely laughable... unless we're talking about a serious frankenwatch... starting from gen dial, hands, bracelet, etc. And even then it usually makes no sense at all.

I totally agree with the original poster that the way overboard prices should get "called out". But when you're questioning someone's watch/price/honesty, first make 100% sure that you know what you're talking about... and you know EXACTLY what replica model it is in question. Don't go "fishing" there, and posting annoying questions just for the sake of it.

And just like TwoTone said, make it POLITELY. We don't want to see the sales section turning to a war zone.

[Watchmeister]

I would reiterate two points. Constructive concerns should be posted on sales offerings. Factual comments are very useful such as it is cheaper new or a correction on description (swiss movement or not - when it is not) or publicly requesting a pic of the movement are all valid posts. Simply saying that the offering is a rip-off without justification is not. Today there is far better information available than ever before. And we can make the information even better by posting trade reviews and pictures of the watches after they are received. The information is only as good as we want to make it. Frankly, in our current format it can be even better than the gen forums. But it requires a group effort.

And on the comment about other forum offerings they all suffer the same issues.

[By-Tor]

I agree with Mr.Z. Modded watches are a serious problem, and determining their value is often very difficult.

But I can give you one example:

My extremely rare, best-ever Rolex replica base, Explorer II frankenwatch with GENUINE DIAL and correct hand stack... guess what I paid?

Yes. $350 + shipping. I know it was a bargain, but that's something that could be described as "fair price". It's still a rep, although very nice.

If someone asks $900 for a Chinese Submariner (MBW/WMB/BMW) with RBJ scam mods, call him out. Or stay away. Make some research, don't be an idiot.

The veteran members and mods are here to protect you, but we're not going to change your diaper. This place is a hobby for us, not a job. We're not on anyone's payroll... we don't get a DIME for our efforts So it's unreasonable to except us to control all the sales threads. It's simply not possible. All members should feel equally responsible for others.

And YOU have the ultimate responsibility for your money, not us. This community has always been a "learning experience". When in doubt, ask questions and make more research. It's a cruel world out there, so be careful.

[yellomen]

I don't understand the fuzz about too high priced watches... if the price is too high... don't buy it. If you think it's reasonable... do buy it. Simple as that!

The point Ziggy brought in is much more difficult... the quality of mods. Unfortunately there are so many threads about bad mods from guys like RBJ and several others that i think we should not repeat that here. This forum contains all the information you need to make a good buy... if you're too lazy to inform yourself or so naiv to think this forum and all sales being made here have the same customer service like wallmart... well... do a reality check again!

Amen.

[RWG Technical]

I don't understand the fuzz about too high priced watches... if the price is too high... don't buy it. If you think it's reasonable... do buy it. Simple as that!

But you as the buyer may not know that the price is too high.

My $525 PAM 118 was priced too high, but I did not know the difference, and had no where or person to ask...

Someone seeing a watch for sale with $1000 or more in "mods" with an asking price of 1/2 to 3/4 of the value? will think they are getting a deal...unless they know what to ask and look for.

How would they know it may not be a good deal, if no one commented on the sales post?

I think this is a very difficult thing to work around without causing bad feelings.

If I spent $$$ on mods, I would be offended if someone said that I wasted my money, or got scammed.

RG

[w.genzo]

A newbie who has only seen bad reps for years on globalreplicas.com or other scam sites priced 950$, could find a good deal an MBW used for 900$.

Is not a case that all the scam sales like that often finish with a newbie that privately send a PM and grab it.

edit: I mean it's correct to preserve members not allowing peple to scam them just because they're newbies.

[PAMman]

There are a number of reasons why I would be happy to pay more than the 'normal' new price for a used watch, for example;

I would be prepared to pay a premium for an 'old Asian' movement 6,9,12 Navitimer or IWC 3717 in mint condition from within the EU, because it would be my intention to swap for the ETA movement. Without the intention to swap the newer 7750 would be a better bet. Additionally, I would avoid the customs risk associated with importing from Asia and I would expect the watch to be the actual one shown in the photos, thus avoiding misaligned dial markers on the 3717 etc. Again I would be prepared to pay over the odds for certain PAMs because you can never be certain what exact combination of bits will be shipped from any of the dealers. Crowns vary, CGs vary so do casebacks etc.....an older PAM may have the correct F series caseback that's not available anymore.

In short there are a lot of watches that have got worse in terms of quality and detail as time has gone on (SMP, Avenger chrono, 6,9,12 Navitimer & others) and I would value some older examples above a new equivalent. However, only a minority of people may recognise the worth of some of these variations and 'thread crapping' from others who don't will unreasonably cast a slur on the original poster.

Judging by the reports of watches being impounded by customs in countries like Germany, or having high duties imposed by Denmark for example, I would assume that a watch being offered for sale locally would be of significantly higher value to a member of that country. It would be totally unfair of me, who has suffered very little from UK customs, to completely disregard the value of that watch to its current owner or fellow countryman.

I think that the bottom line is that those of us who have been here for a while should be able to weigh up all of these matters for ourselves and rather than encouraging thread crapping, as a method of 'helping newbies', we should be prepared to respond more positively to the 'newbie' request of 'who has the best sub etc'. There is a certain amount of hypocrisy in encouraging

[fotoman]

the ridiculous thing about this thread and it has been mentioned before is, No one is forcing anyone to buy used. - in fact, almost all of the watches being sold are redly available. So i don't feel sorry for the newbs - Do some research

Do you go on ebay and buy the first version of an item that you come across? or do you do some searching, watching some auctions, search completed listings?

No one is pushing newbs to buy THAT watch - take some time, watch the secondary market - learn, or stick to the dealers.

One persons rip off is another persons value. I just bought a watch from PT that i could have gotten 20 bucks cheaper from king - am i being ripped off? - no, but dealing someone with a handle on english is worth the extra few bucks.

look i'm the first one to blast George and his aliases - i totally destroyed a relationship with Josh just to try to fight against crazy pricing. I will blow up joe or the other "Scam" modders all day. I have done my bit for king and country on helping members avoid scams - but its just not worth it to get involved in member to member sales - to much subjectivity creates divisiveness.

i have sold dozens of watches - when i price it to high - guess what - it sits. When you drop the price to the right point all of a sudden you get 3 PMs

[woody]

Will my watch get a R eal B low J ob first? I know that'll be charged for too, I presume? And then the watch will be too tired, it will need a stint on your pillows...

Peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...

Chronus,

with my new service it is all about personal TLC. each night, I will take your watch out for a "walk", meaning that I will admire it for 1 FULL minute, and just before I put them back onto the pillow and back to the case. I will personally use my mouth to carefully blow on your watch. it will receive a full B low job around the watch, the case, strap, the whole works. and I am only charging $25 for 6 to 8 months of holding hostage, ooops, staying at my watch hotel.......this is a bargain!!

[giorgio]

OP has been edited...

For language and offensive content...

TT

Keep up the good work!!

[Chronus]

Chronus,

with my new service it is all about personal TLC. each night, I will take your watch out for a "walk", meaning that I will admire it for 1 FULL minute, and just before I put them back onto the pillow and back to the case. I will personally use my mouth to carefully blow on your watch. it will receive a full B low job around the watch, the case, strap, the whole works. and I am only charging $25 for 6 to 8 months of holding hostage, ooops, staying at my watch hotel.......this is a bargain!!

After all that time... and all the walking it will get... hopefully your B low J ob will be as good as the R eal B low J ob in clearing the dial of dust... sometimes high prices denote quality