roflwaffle Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 (edited) Good thought. I guess you Edited June 2, 2008 by roflwaffle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milsub5517 Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 (edited) i bet $1000 that if you put the info here on the forum NO asian manufacturer will try to do what you guys are trying to do! They simply dont care! also the market for this is really limited. yes, they can make a little $$$ (compared to what watch sales generate), but it will take too much time and effort for them to sell everything, again due to a limited market. they will not bother with this $hit.. unfortunately for us ... seeking "perfection" in the rep world. T H E Y D O N ' T C A R E ! ! ! p.s. The only dealer here who is capable of doing something like this is DSN, but he was approached many times with this and other similar requests (people wanted to help for free with the project even provide all needed gen material, which btw he has plenty of access to without any help) and he IS NOT INTERESTED! there should be no concerns after this... I think that the concern is that while our members are putting a lot of time, effort and funds into this project some of the Asia-based dealers may use the detail to produce their own upgraded crowns and the community members would be left with a bunch of crowns that no-one wanted anymore. This is really a sensible precaution to protect the initial investment and ensure that there is still a demand whenever they become available. Edited June 3, 2008 by mil_sub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAMman Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 i bet $1000 that if you put the info here on the forum NO asian manufacturer will try to do what you guys are trying to do! They simply dont care! also the market for this is really limited. yes, they can make a little $$$ (compared to what watch sales generate), but it will take too much time and effort for them to sell everything, again due to a limited market. they will not bother with this $hit.. unfortunately for us ... seeking "perfection" in the rep world. T H E Y D O N ' T C A R E ! ! ! p.s. The only dealer here who is capable of doing something like this is DSN, but he was approached many times with this and other similar requests (people wanted to help for free with the project even provide all needed gen material, which btw he has plenty of access to without any help) and he IS NOT INTERESTED! there should be no concerns after this... I haven't ever seen any evidence that DSN is capable of getting anything right but I do totally agree that he isn't interested in raising his game at all. However, that's no entirely his fault as I blame the memebers of the rep boards who heap praise on him for 'hand building' their watches and then post pics of some awful workmanship and highly inaccurate details that can only be described as different-but-worse than the regular mainstream reps. His Panerai cases are an example of this - the regular reps cases are far more accurate than his. Why produce a bespoke article unless it's better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hawkes Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 The person who is going to produce those crowns actually D O E S C A R E ! ! !.. So you better cope with it.. I don't see what the problem is, someone is willing to take the risk in producing the crowns and doesn't want anybody who is coming straight from google to stumble upon his name and plans and every other evidence one might need to file a lawsuit. Why do you guys think Jimmy Fu isn't giving his plans out? Making some drawings for a proper crown is not rocket science. Yet no one of the soooo experienced members with thousands of posts has tried to make some crowns himself or "start the fire".. Since things are in the making now everyone can decide wether or not he likes the crown. If you don't just don't buy it.. The idea of this thread was, that everyone could chime in with some suggestions with what the crown should look like. I don't see why you would need the drawings unless you want to produce some yourself.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATEspo Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 I am sorry if I am a NEWB, and I am in the process of buying my first PAM, what is a Palp Crown, and will one fit my soon to be 112H? What is the difference between the one that is coming with the PAM and the one you guys are selling/making? Sorry for the NEWB question, I am just trying to learn more and more about the REP PAMS. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milsub5517 Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 (edited) dude, read my post again, you are loosing the point. which is - we should not be afraid to make these drawings public. we are on a rep site after all and all of us are trying to benefit and contribute. the worst thing that can happen to this forum is it gets shutdown and the owners get sued. NO ONE is gonna go after individual posters even if they post drawings or whatever FIY: What Jimmy Fu plans??? He contracted manufacturer to make the parts for his "future" homage watch, then another known homage maker got sued by Panerai and Jimmy Fu decided to not continue with the project (fear of being shut down by friends in Italy) and sold most of his stuff on eBay, also notice the fact that it took him awhile to sell his stuff due to very limited demand for these things (and the prices were dirt cheap too, of course now they are 5-10X higher so there is no secret here. The person who is going to produce those crowns actually D O E S C A R E ! ! !.. So you better cope with it.. I don't see what the problem is, someone is willing to take the risk in producing the crowns and doesn't want anybody who is coming straight from google to stumble upon his name and plans and every other evidence one might need to file a lawsuit. Why do you guys think Jimmy Fu isn't giving his plans out? Making some drawings for a proper crown is not rocket science. Yet no one of the soooo experienced members with thousands of posts has tried to make some crowns himself or "start the fire".. Since things are in the making now everyone can decide wether or not he likes the crown. If you don't just don't buy it.. The idea of this thread was, that everyone could chime in with some suggestions with what the crown should look like. I don't see why you would need the drawings unless you want to produce some yourself.. Edited June 4, 2008 by mil_sub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hawkes Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 Well I am just saying, that if the guy who is producing the crowns doesn't want to put the drawings online for everyone to see, because it could be used as evidence against him, we should respect that. He promised to sell them cheap. So I see no problem. I can understand that he doesn't want to put stuff at risk. "FIY: What Jimmy Fu plans???" I might be mistaken, but I think I read somewhere that he actually has the plans/drawings for the parts or could get them, but doesn't want to, because of the risk to get sued. Don't know for sure however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enock Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 Hey T, I think that you would have another buyer here! Enock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peepshow Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 ...I might be mistaken, but I think I read somewhere that he actually has the plans/drawings for the parts or could get them, but doesn't want to, because of the risk to get sued. Don't know for sure however. I thought someone posted earlier in this thread that Jimmy just handed the gen parts over to the machine shop and they created the drawings, etc.? Thus, Jimmy doesn't have the drawings, they are property of the production house. Maybe I'm misrembering, though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellomen Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 There are some many posts that i really have no clue anymore what the status is ... and if i can simply say "2 crowns please!!!! 1 x unitas and 1 x valjoux" But if that's possible... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegendofSpeed Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 The project was open source... up until a qualified design team was developed to make the chicken-scratch into reality... I have no problem with the actual plans being removed... although i do not feel, IMHO, our friends in Asia or Italy are the biggest reasons this was removed... what would prevent another person on the board swiping the plans and contracting someone to make the same piece.... the biggest part of this process is the design and creation of a blueprint to manufacture from... I wish the project good luck and I am sure that the team working on it right now will carry it through to fruition... When it comes time, I will be ordering many! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milsub5517 Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 DSN has no competition on a large AND small scale production. period. look at his pre-V series. If it was not for DSN we would not have some really nice reps... my 82 is one example. I haven't ever seen any evidence that DSN is capable of getting anything right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAMman Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 DSN has no competition on a large AND small scale production. period. look at his pre-V series. If it was not for DSN we would not have some really nice reps... my 82 is one example. This is one of the most inaccurate, misinformed statements that I have ever read on the subject of DSN's watches. His preV cases are a caricature of what a preV really looks like. In contrast the regular rep case is very close to the true preV case. Before you flame me please check out this link; http://www.paneristi.com/archives/casedifferences/index.html If you compare the preV case to a regular rep you will find that they are very close in shape. Then compare DSN's latest preV 5218/201A. His has the crown and stem positioned far too high in the case, with the crown barely appearing below the grossly misshapen CG. Because the stem is too high so is the movement and dial. DSN attempts to disguise this by adding a ridiculously tall bezel to achieve a normal rehaut. Compare the gen - it actually has a shallower bezel than the later watches but DSN has gone in the opposite direction. The net result is that his preV case looks nothing like a genuine preV and there is no excuse because the regular rep is almost 100% correct to begin with. If you are really honest and examine the 201A photographed for the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pamfried Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 This is one of the most inaccurate, misinformed statements that I have ever read on the subject of DSN's watches. His preV cases are a caricature of what a preV really looks like. In contrast the regular rep case is very close to the true preV case. Before you flame me please check out this link; http://www.paneristi.com/archives/casedifferences/index.html If you compare the preV case to a regular rep you will find that they are very close in shape. Then compare DSN's latest preV 5218/201A. His has the crown and stem positioned far too high in the case, with the crown barely appearing below the grossly misshapen CG. Because the stem is too high so is the movement and dial. DSN attempts to disguise this by adding a ridiculously tall bezel to achieve a normal rehaut. Compare the gen - it actually has a shallower bezel than the later watches but DSN has gone in the opposite direction. The net result is that his preV case looks nothing like a genuine preV and there is no excuse because the regular rep is almost 100% correct to begin with. If you are really honest and examine the 201A photographed for the 'Risti article and compare it to a regular cartel rep you will have to agree that they are very close indeed. Then compare the profile to DSN's latest 201A. It is immediately obvious that his is totally cr*p. If you are happy with your DSN preV that's fine - it's your watch and that's your prerogative. However, his watch is hopelessly inaccurate and cannot be compared with a regular rep in terms of accuracy. Statements like yours are harmful in two ways. Firstly they are misleading and untrue and result in others buying his rubbish and being very disappointed. Secondly, they serve to reinforce DSN's high opinion of himself and reduce the likelihood that he will ever raise his game at all. You are correct about one thing though - DSN has no competition. Thankfully no-one else produces such ridiculous sh!te. X2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swdivad Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 dude, , <snip> the worst thing that can happen to this forum is it gets shutdown and the owners get sued. NO ONE is gonna go after individual posters even if they post drawings or whatever Dude If the forum got shut down, wouldn't that be a terrible thing??? Seems that you don't care so much about that Not that it would happen or anything... I contributed in this project... hopefully it will all come to some good I have the final 3d model... and the drawings... if these crowns are all good, they will continue to be produced... one way or another, I'm sure... If the starter of this project doesn't want to do it anymore, and more people want crowns, I'm sure they can be produced again, to the same spec. For now, the project stays with the owners, if they want to pass it on, by whatever means, they can... On the other hand... crowns, or any Panerai parts ain't friggin rocket science... and can be produced to perfect accuracy, time and money permitting, as we can see with several projects on the go at the moment... so please all those who want drawings and specs... at least wait til some are released before you want all the work put into it to be handed out freely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milsub5517 Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 yes PAMman, you are right i am wrong. Many people on this forum use his parts for their projects, probably because his parts are such cr%p and the projects are sh!tty too. You are correct about one thing though - DSN has no competition. Thankfully no-one else produces such ridiculous sh!te. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAMman Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 yes PAMman, you are right i am wrong. Many people on this forum use his parts for their projects, probably because his parts are such cr%p and the projects are sh!tty too. I am not saying that all of his parts are crap. Some of DSN's parts are very good - for example his latest sprung crown and tube is very close to the gen and definitely the best so far. Some of his dials have been great but unfortunately he then changes them, for example his first generation 010 dial was a gem but it's not available now. I have recommended that people buy the best of his bits and build project watches themselves but it is his complete watches that are the worst. I have already pointed out what is wrong with his latest preV case and I haven't even mentioned the oversize and ridiculous looking lug screws. Anything that uses this case will just be completly wrong and will also suffer from his woeful build quality. I have a 5218/201A project with The Zigmeister at the moment, using DSN's 201A dial which isn't as good as it could have been, but still one of his better offerings - unfortunately he snatched failure from the jaws of victory, largely due to praise being heaped upon him too soon before he had finally got it right. I'm using a standard rep case which I will fit with the correct 3-piece lug-screws. I'll post a couple of photos when I get it back and then you should be able to see how close DSN could be by using standard off-the-shelf components instead of his own crazy nonsense. Very simply, DSN is following a path that is leading further and further away from accuracy and into the realms of fantasy with damnable build quality thrown in for good measure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgodeep Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 unfortunately he snatched failure from the jaws of victory PAMMan - All very well said and I agree wholeheartedly - only find some of his parts useful - but I do like this phrase a lot.....must note that one for future use!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAMman Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 PAMMan - All very well said and I agree wholeheartedly - only find some of his parts useful - but I do like this phrase a lot.....must note that one for future use!!! OOOPS, I think we may have hijacked a thread here......sorry. I should have copyrighted that phrase before I exposed to rep scoundrels. Did you compare a cartel rep to the 201A in the 'Risti link? Just add the proper screws and you're there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgodeep Posted June 11, 2008 Report Share Posted June 11, 2008 OOOPS, I think we may have hijacked a thread here......sorry. I should have copyrighted that phrase before I exposed to rep scoundrels. Did you compare a cartel rep to the 201A in the 'Risti link? Just add the proper screws and you're there. Double oops for the hijack I have found a case I think is better for Pre-V (Shorter lugs and no strap dimple - better side profile) - Ross has one from me for review and I think he concurs.. You know what's coming next ...the ball has been set rolling ....PM me or call if you wish...S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milsub5517 Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 fishgodeep, do you mind sharing the source of the case? Double oops for the hijack I have found a case I think is better for Pre-V (Shorter lugs and no strap dimple - better side profile) - Ross has one from me for review and I think he concurs.. You know what's coming next ...the ball has been set rolling ....PM me or call if you wish...S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAMman Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 fishgodeep, do you mind sharing the source of the case? I have one as well and it came on my 005 from Eddie a couple of years ago. It has the correct 'squarer' side profile with high corners and more 'slabby' sides, short, rounded stubby lugs etc and is a dead ringer for the 5218/201A. These also had the perfect 5218/201A caseback with the same serial number as Mr Yellow's genuine preV logo. I always have suspected that his gen was used to create a 1:1 copy because these cases are so exact, apart from using the single lug screw of the later cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milsub5517 Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 so this case version is no longer produced? I have one as well and it came on my 005 from Eddie a couple of years ago. It has the correct 'squarer' side profile with high corners and more 'slabby' sides, short, rounded stubby lugs etc and is a dead ringer for the 5218/201A. These also had the perfect 5218/201A caseback with the same serial number as Mr Yellow's genuine preV logo. I always have suspected that his gen was used to create a 1:1 copy because these cases are so exact, apart from using the single lug screw of the later cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAMman Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 so this case version is no longer produced? I honestly don't know. There seems to be a range of different sources for the components that are used to assemble our reps so possibly they are all currently available but a different source is a keener price at present. Capitalism seems to have overrun the socialist ideals, but then what's new? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishgodeep Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Helenarou on the bay. Item - 270245085016 is the basic watch version but case set's only were cheaper. MK is the sellers name... CG , Crown and Case back are rubbish and a new tube is required for the case set - but DSN's new Pre-V crown comes with a tube so job done. I purchased 2 case sets and whilst I can't directly compare the PAMMan's early EL case - the Helenarou case sets have short squarer lugs , no strap dimple and come with a non-ar crystal (mineral) which comes in handy. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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