highoeyazmuhudee Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 I agree whole heartedly... Who cares about genuine eta or not? if the second hand sweeps smoothly with a 21 jewel japanese movement, then great. These things cost 2-3-400 bucks. My freind envies the [censored] out of me cuz I have a beautiful ss submariner, and he has a fossil watch that cost him about $200 at walmart. And I'll never tell him my submariner was exactly $199. cost was NEVER the issue. it was deception at the hands of our 'trusted' dealers. by your logic i shouldnt complain if i buy a genuine rolex with an asian movement...and pay rolex prices for it. whats the difference right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roflwaffle Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 cost was NEVER the issue. it was deception at the hands of our 'trusted' dealers. by your logic i shouldnt complain if i buy a genuine rolex with an asian movement...and pay rolex prices for it. whats the difference right? hrm.. cost was a bit of an issue for me, so you buy an ETA rollie for 2xx instead of 100 for a newb... and you get a fake eta... and its not about money? it is about deception.. but its also about being sold crap and told its good by the dealers that a forum which was created to stop lies in sales endorses.. lol. oh.. guess that makes it about deception as well.. I just dont like 'surprises' when it comes to these things.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnG Posted June 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 hrm.. cost was a bit of an issue for me, so you buy an ETA rollie for 2xx instead of 100 for a newb... and you get a fake eta... I think that is what highoeyazmuhudee means. We are not upset because of the money per-se but rather because we didn't get what we paid for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfreeman420 Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 *the DG4813 is a high beat asian movement for $40 and has a good track record of reliability..fits the n00b case nicely Ofrei has them for $26.00. Selita also makes a very good swiss movement. They are used in a lot of the watches they sell on shop NBC like Invicta, Renato and Croton. I think these companies are using these because ETA's are becoming more expensive and rare, but there are other swiss movements that are cheaper and more readily available. I can only assume however that these copy ETA's cost just a few dollars to make. Thsi makes it very profitable to the factories and doesn't motivate them to acquire other branded movements. I say buy the asian copies on purpose and you will never get screwed. You may even get a gen ETA as a mistake. Wouldn't that be funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highoeyazmuhudee Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 Ofrei has them for $26.00. Selita also makes a very good swiss movement. They are used in a lot of the watches they sell on shop NBC like Invicta, Renato and Croton. I think these companies are using these because ETA's are becoming more expensive and rare, but there are other swiss movements that are cheaper and more readily available. I can only assume however that these copy ETA's cost just a few dollars to make. Thsi makes it very profitable to the factories and doesn't motivate them to acquire other branded movements. I say buy the asian copies on purpose and you will never get screwed. You may even get a gen ETA as a mistake. Wouldn't that be funny. i knew they were inexpensive just forgot they were that inexpensive : ) I hear the Ofrei one doesnt fit the noob case properly tho. apparently there are two variations , i remember reading this on the board a few weeks back. i've been interested in playing with a selita movements for a while, i hear they're the new ETA replacement, just as reliable, cheaper, maybe even an exact clone in terms of architecture. any one have any experience or know of any reps that carry them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnkay Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 Ofrei has them for $26.00. Selita also makes a very good swiss movement. They are used in a lot of the watches they sell on shop NBC like Invicta, Renato and Croton. I think these companies are using these because ETA's are becoming more expensive and rare, but there are other swiss movements that are cheaper and more readily available. I can only assume however that these copy ETA's cost just a few dollars to make. Thsi makes it very profitable to the factories and doesn't motivate them to acquire other branded movements. I say buy the asian copies on purpose and you will never get screwed. You may even get a gen ETA as a mistake. Wouldn't that be funny. One of The Zigmeister's posts said Selita was a crap movement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbh Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 One of The Zigmeister's posts said Selita was a crap movement Selita is also a Swiss Company. Therefore they (can) make Swiss Movements.....They also manufacture movements in China. Selita also makes ETA 2836-2 and 2824-2 clones. ETA patent has expired on these movements. This, I suspect, is where a lot of the clone ETA movements come from. Just my humble opinion. 2 + 2 = 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highoeyazmuhudee Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 Selita is also a Swiss Company. Therefore they (can) make Swiss Movements.....They also manufacture movements in China. Selita also makes ETA 2836-2 and 2824-2 clones. ETA patent has expired on these movements. This, I suspect, is where a lot of the clone ETA movements come from. Just my humble opinion. 2 + 2 = 4 VERY interesting theory, i guess that would make sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tr4driver Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 Besides the movements, are there typically any other differences between the Swiss and Asian versions that the rep dealers sell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jawo Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 With threads like this one, these are moments I miss The Zigmeister!! I miss it when he steps in, and whips up an article. Come back The Zigmeister!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabom Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 If some are under the impression that the Swiss ETA 2824/2836s in their reps are in fact Selitas, I only want to add that all the "ETAs" in my reps have the ETA stamp on them. I don't suppose this would exist on a Selita copy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbh Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 Selita doesn't stamp Rolex or Omega, or whatever on the rotors either. Certainly that wouldn't be a problem for rep makers. Notice the ETA stamps on some of the alleged Swiss are sh*t compared to others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabom Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 are you saying the fake ETAs also have the ETA stamp on it, but the stamp looks fake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbieG Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 are you saying the fake ETAs also have the ETA stamp on it, but the stamp looks fake? They usually look pretty good, but if the stamps do look fake I'm sure that is easily corrected on the next batch... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted June 28, 2008 Report Share Posted June 28, 2008 Look, am I the only one who thinks that if the movements were taken completely out that these watches are the best value on the horological planet? A Noobmariner is $200 with the highest quality movement and $100 with the lower one. That tells me the watch is worth a little under $100 empty. What a deal! For $200 you are getting a great watch and if it breaks so does it really matter if it is a real ETA at that price? How about $300? $400. Again, you can't buy better watches for this money anywhere even with name brands that put Asian movements in them as a standard and sell them at department stores! A $100-200 extra for the same Asian movement watch is a rip-off. For some of us, that is a lot of money (and why we buy reps not gens!). So if we can agree that the base watch is worth a hair less than the dealers price with the worst movement here is what you do (and what I intend to do with my watches from now on). Contact your dealer and tell him you want the watch but you intend to transplant your own movement in it. You will need a set of hands that fit the ETA's in some cases, but in many cases the lower quality Asian movements hands will fit. Maybe The Zigmeister can clarify the deal on hand sizes for 2836's and 2824's which are the culprits. You can then buy the lowest quality Asian watch for $100, your own 2824 from somewhere. I found this one just now on the bay for $135 which is 100% Swiss and cased - http://cgi.ebay.com/ETA-Automatic-Movement...Q2em118Q2el1247 Then you can have your modder swap the movement out for you for probably $50 or so. Or if the dealer won't sell you the hands and the Asian's don't fit they can be broached quite easily. So for a total of what, $285 or so you will have a true Swiss rep. Without a doubt. Otherwise you can just take your chances with whatever dealer you choose, but keep in mind that I doubt many dealers can even tell the difference any more with these so called ETA's. Again, as Pug said they are so bastardized many times it is hard to make sense of. This is the only way to know for sure Sadly this may be the way to go. I think Eurotimez deserves a chance and if he is the only one delivering genuine guaranteed ETAs (and he'll presumably never send copy ETAs), he'll get a lot of business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTimez Posted June 29, 2008 Report Share Posted June 29, 2008 (edited) Just to add to this thread.... I ALSO HAVE about 100x DG4813 movements which will fit the NOOBMARINER/YACHTMASTER, to state it correctly it is an 22 jewel movement at 28.8k. It is different than the Offrei ones that will cause problems. At 30 usd incl pp fees, shipped!!! YES I GUARANTEE THAT IN YOUR WATCH = GEN NEW ETA... All watches are opened and MARKED! If the watch cannot be had with GEN ETA movement then customer will be informed, its that simple. yes, you got basterized movements (half copy, half real ETA or refurbished movements, rusty, etc) and you got 100% COPY ETA in the repworld, as a dealer you can order for most watches all three of these movements (COPY / Second GRADE / NEW GEN ETA ) to your choice --needless to say the lesser 2 quality is much cheaper from the factory---. The most expensive one is GEN NEW ETA and they're available their just quite expensive buy, so almost all dealers ("all" as in also onboard/offboard dealers/resellers unknown to the forum) switched over to COPY or Refurbished stuff... for reasons Highoez... mentioned The refurbished stuff (second grade) can be good but can be bad too, sometimes it 100% ETA but then from old stock, sometimes it's rusty, sometimes its half-copy half gen, etc.... risky, hit and miss kind of a thing so I just stick to GEN NEW ETA movements for my higher end client needs. Edited June 29, 2008 by EuroTimez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnG Posted June 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2008 Just to add to this thread.... I ALSO HAVE about 100x DG4813 movements which will fit the NOOBMARINER/YACHTMASTER, to state it correctly it is an 22 jewel movement at 28.8k. It is different than the Offrei ones that will cause problems. At 30 usd incl pp fees, shipped!!! Thanks Chris! It is great to know that you have the high beat Asian movement. It is a nice alternative for people who want to spend less but want the cleaner sweeping movement. I have thought seriously about it myself - there are so many watches I want but I could not justify buying all ETA's - just too much money. So for me it was either buy fewer watches, or put up with yet another tell in the second hand sweep. Your price sure is right! JohnG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnG Posted July 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 I took my SSD to the watch smith in my town today and he looked at the movement which, by EuroTimez's criteria, is a fake. He studied it for a while with a loup and said in his opinion it was genuine. The overall quality of the movement was too high, in his opinion, to be a cheap copy of an ETA. I told him all about the debate here. I pointed to the "many holes" (or lack thereof) in my movement and the shiny wheel... The first thing he said is that there are differences in the appearance of components over the production life of a movement. He said he has worked on MANY ETA movements and they don't all look the same despite being the same model number. They change machines on the line, materials suppliers, etc., and that superficial differences in the appearance of the movements are common. I mentioned the technical drawings from ETA's website and he said, sure from this year, right? Nevertheless, he gave me his email to send him the comparison pics and he will take a look at them. He admitted it was certainly possible there are fake ETA's and even that mine may be a fake, but he said in his opinion, it is genuine. He confirmed everything that I had once thought but had abandoned given the opinions I had read here. Now I have doubts again. I will keep you guys (those who are interested) updated. This will never be a definitive answer, but it is one more opinion to take into account... I was correct that the experts are not all in agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wreck Posted July 4, 2008 Report Share Posted July 4, 2008 Despite some hurt feelings, this thread has been very interesting and, yes, for me educational. I do know that in the GEN world some things like these are happening too. It seems the world of horology is going through some kind of shift between Asia and ETA, and it's getting confusing. There's a rumor from many reliable forums (posts from people that have good credentials) that Rolex might not be making all their cases in Switzerland, that some ETA movts. are made in China etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSTEEL Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 Old thread resurrection, the latest fake ETA movements have burnt laser type stamping. Clone ETA's being advertised as Swiss 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sogeha Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 Might want a full stop in that last line. I'm scanning Activity and I see "Clone ETA being advertised as Swiss by Micky Aldridge on Flickr". I was so shocked I spilt my coffee. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSTEEL Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 Edited Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astonjenks Posted August 16, 2016 Report Share Posted August 16, 2016 I have added a comment on Sead's post. AJ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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