andreww Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 wow thats funny stuff lol hahaha I love it! Yeah, that one has been sitting in the vault waiting for the perfect time @Pug, it'd be a great signature, but I'll need a monthly royalty cheque Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 Boys, I'm off to visit my American Neighbors to the south for a few days. See if you can have this rapped up by the time I get back! Lets keep it under 30 pages okay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 I dont wanna give out too much information but anyone following the super reps lately knows about the HBB factory and their ultra reps. The HBB factory has nothing to do with the cartel i assure you. It'd be interesting to know how many factories are making the top reps. The "Noob factory" makes all the best Rolex replicas (the legendary old ExpII, new GMT IIc) and then there's the factory that puts out the TAGs... those have been astronomically good. Dunno which factory made the 2xAR SFSO but that's still one of the most impressive reps I've seen. It still has the "holy sh*t" factor whenever I put it on. SELs fit exactly, the bracelet is outstanding, etc. Those who have been around longer shouldn't compare the prices to the ETA reps that we had in 2005. I'm not saying that all the prices are reasonable... far from it. For example the new Grand Carrera: I would have bought the watch, but for $400... no way. I'd rather get a preowned 40mm gen Aquaracer Date chrono for $1K... or even $900 if I get lucky. But I agree with Robbie. For the ETA SFSO $300 is a fair price. As a watch, the SFSO runs circles around the gens at the same price tag (Invictas and all that garbage). Robbie owns many very expensive gens, so I believe he has pretty good perspective to compare them to. This, of course, has nothing to do with this topic itself. It's just a side note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peepshow Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 Side note or not, that's a good question, By-Tor. So, the "Ultimate" SA and the Skyland V2 both come from the HBB factory. What of the Porsche Flat Six and the Mille Miglia and Mille Miglia chrono? Sounds like their might be 4-5 factories putting out some form of "super rep" and perhaps more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbieG Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 (edited) Yeah, I wish I didn't say that line about ALL the best reps...sorry...I should have said SOME, but importnat ones nonetheless...I also said nothing of the Skyland so I'm not sure where that is coming from. The GMTIIc and the Heritage come to mind as examples of J&A projects. I am trying to illustrate the process by which pricing is inflated guys as that is just standard business stuff and it applies here just as anywhere else. Exclusivity works at inflating prices in a number of ways. Like consider if you happen to like the Glacier Blue Rolex dial on a Day-Date. Rolex says if you want this dial you have to buy the platinum watch only and the price is 48K, while the WG version with every other dial is half that. Factory exclusivity play...You are forced to buy an overpriced watch (I mean platinum is platinum, but 48K for a 36MM watch?) just to get a certain color dial. And people do if they can afford it. They forget why eventually and now it is a status symbol they just have to have and the dial shows that it has to be that. If they didn't do that marriage with the dial I bet hardly anyone would buy the 950 version of that watch over WG at that price with any other dial. The illusion has become real. So regarding the J&A projects they use exclusivity in a different way. The factory pretends to be neutral but they aren't. The price of the CHS GMT was set by them at a higher point as they claimed supply was limited. That was of course just bull. They further puctuated it by giving J&A and exclusive initially because they had a stake in the project. It was mayhem when it came out and all the highest dollar sales went to them which they wacked up with the factory. And now that the frenzy has died down ity is just another watch. If every dealer had it at the outset the price compettion would have kept the price lower and the watch wouldn't have been such a big deal. The CHS move was the equivalent of my Galcier Blue dial example above. Just a little something to make it "special" and not available anywhere else for a time. Genius. And as it should be. I'll never be critical of a team that are smart marketers. Look, exclusive project watches is something that the factories will continue to do and if a large dealer participates financially it will grant them exclusivity rights which are more and more pervasive as time goes on. Why? Because exclusivity is the best way for a FACTORY to command the highest prices. That is what this is all about really. What Andrew allegedly did has more to do with the factory than him - trust me. The big picture that I am trying to present here guys is that ALL the competent factories want to jack you and they will continue to use their henchmen which are the dealers as a front to do it. Sorry my friend but thats completely incorrect but its funny that you think that.. What gives you this impression? I am interested to know. The best reps right now are from the HBB factory.. like the new super avenger, graham diver and Version2 skyland.. Josh and andrew dont have the v2 skyland no matter what they tell you... they are selling a V1 skyland with better V2 dial becasue they took a beating on their V1 watch sales... I dont wanna give out too much information but anyone following the super reps lately knows about the HBB factory and their ultra reps. The HBB factory has nothing to do with the cartel i assure you. Edited July 28, 2008 by RobbieG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 It'd be interesting to know how many factories are making the top reps. The "Noob factory" makes all the best Rolex replicas (the legendary old ExpII, new GMT IIc) and then there's the factory that puts out the TAGs... those have been astronomically good. Dunno which factory made the 2xAR SFSO but that's still one of the most impressive reps I've seen. It still has the "holy sh*t" factor whenever I put it on. SELs fit exactly, the bracelet is outstanding, etc. I could be wrong but i think that SFSO is made by the noob factory also... i remember reading this somewhere a while ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takashi Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 @RobbieG: The Heritage was released by Silix first... How can that be J&A project? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbieG Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 @RobbieG: The Heritage was released by Silix first... How can that be J&A project? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josevancouver Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 If I'm not mistaken, there are two versions of the SOSF. I have both, and recently bought the noob version from Reg (Narikaa). The Noob version has (could be wrong) an Asian movement, mineral crystal,and a single coating coating of AR. I don't think there is a Swiss ETA version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 Yeah, I wish I didn't say that line about ALL the best reps...sorry...I should have said SOME, but importnat ones nonetheless... You're going to have to realise that your "all, er, I mean most ... um, sorry I said some" sounds a lot like someone who doesn't actually have a clue what he's talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 What is interesting is that the overall rep industry is getting more competitive not less. HBB factories puts out Skyland v1. BCE factory puts out Skyland v2. Dealers being stuck with inferior version 2 are forced to buy new dials and then lower the price. SFSO factory is a different factory. MBK product being outdone by other factories, etc. So the manufacturers have figured out that there is money in them thar hills. And although dealers may buy gens in order to produce high end reps the factories are increasingly giving very limited exclusives (month or less) rather than the original Honpo 3-4 months. For all of our bitching about dealers (any of them) they have lost power and not gained it with respect to the manufacturers. Manufacturers are now demanding larger runs than any one or two dealers can soak up. And on top of that we are increasingly seeing multiple factories making reps of the same watch. Skyland is only the beginning. I suspect there will be more coming. So whether it is A and J, Angus or anyone else the game is getting bigger and riskier. IMHO, we are now beginning to see prices going down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 The GMTIIc and the Heritage come to mind as examples of J&A projects. ??? GMTIIc is noobfactory.. same as SSD, noobmariner, Daytona seconds @6 etc And as HK said sillix had the heritage before the cartel had it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Febus Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 The big picture that I am trying to present here guys is that ALL the competent factories want to jack you and they will continue to use their henchmen which are the dealers as a front to do it. Of course they do, the point being that forums such as this one exist to stop them and their dirty, snidey vile little henchmen from doing so. At least they should exist for that reason. From what I'm reading here that may not be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermanx Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 Yeah, I wish I didn't say that line about ALL the best reps...sorry...I should have said SOME, but importnat ones nonetheless...I also said nothing of the Skyland so I'm not sure where that is coming from. The GMTIIc and the Heritage come to mind as examples of J&A projects. I am trying to illustrate the process by which pricing is inflated guys as that is just standard business stuff and it applies here just as anywhere else. You said nothing of the Skyland specifically, but in so much as saying ALL that would include the skyland and the skyland is one of the two big reps at this very moment (and the soon to be released SA, also not J&A)... GMTIIc was not a J&A project, they "adopted" it when they saw the hype it was getting, that project was in the works for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 Of course they do, the point being that forums such as this one exist to stop them and their dirty, snidey vile little henchmen from doing so. At least they should exist for that reason. From what I'm reading here that may not be the case. EXACTLY!! the Admin at RWI is there to protect its members. Thats our main goal. And i know its top priority here also. RWG has a killer Admin team here and just added a few new faces to the staff. I really admire the fact that they arnt censoring everything like over at Repgeek. That tells me that RWG cares about its members. I am proud to me a member here dizz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takashi Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 Same here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbieG Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 Yup, all interconnected and that is supposedly theirs too. This is why we can't make sense of it. Maybe sometimes Josh takes a piece of the factory action even if he doesn't release it first? Who knows what they are all doing over there which has been what I keep saying. We have no idea. Actually I just heard that the Skyland was theirs too after all but then something happened with the HBB guys which he didn't go into. Others were the Porsche 6 and The Fish as well. Sometimes the factory does a watch and CHOOSES the best dealer to run it out to for those exclusivity price reasons I keep alluding too. Makes sense no? I know of two more MAJOR cool projects in the pipeline right now that they are doing as well. How, when and by what method the release will be is something I have no idea of. I'm not trying to be a conduit to Josh here though guys. I'm just repeating what I am being told without revealing anything they ask me not to. You all have their email addy's. Don't take my word for it. Drop them a line and ask. All I know is that 1:1 project watches is something that J&A have done in the past and continue to be very interested in. @RobbieG: The Heritage was released by Silix first... How can that be J&A project? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbieG Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 (edited) Yup, I don't. Don't listen to me. I type faster than I think which I'm not going to apologise too much for. After all it is just a discussion forum. For that matter I guess it really is silly that we all sit here and exchange ideas anyway, being that it never changes the opinions of any individual which of couse is what we all are. So to that end, I'll shut up now Oh one more thing...Robbie Columbo...lol. I just asked Josh to confirm and he said the factory bought the GMT after all and they just had the initial exclusive roll out. He claims to have bought the Skyland (which then died due to the clash with the HBB factory), Porsche 6, Heritage, Fish, and there are two others at least in the pipe which he has bought and contributed which he has asked me not to reveal so I won't. Cool watches though. Again, don't take my word for it. Write Josh and ask him if you guys feel like it... You're going to have to realise that your "all, er, I mean most ... um, sorry I said some" sounds a lot like someone who doesn't actually have a clue what he's talking about. Edited July 28, 2008 by RobbieG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 I thought the Heritage is another watch where two different versions came out and at two different price points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbieG Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 (edited) Beats me. I don't own the watch or know anything about two different editions. Just repeating what I was told by J&A. Which brings us to another point. I'm sure many factories catch wind of what another may be doing and then they each will race to build the best 1:1 and release it first? I'm sure that crossover is likely to keep happening. Is that what happened with the Skyland? The factory who has a 1:1 first can play the exclusivity game and will make the most money of course. This stuff is much more complicated than I think we all would like to imagine and maybe all the dealers are more intertwined as one big sales pool for the factories to draw on? To that end we may be just spinning our wheels in thinking that J&A even act on their own or just at the behest of the makers. And not just them - EVERY delaer. Why would a mafioso society have any real compettion amongst its members? I mean even the Italians have territories and everyone operates independently, but never at the expense of the organization as a whole. If a crew wants to operate they stay in line, do what the bosses say and always kick cash upstairs or they get got. Maybe thinking of all these dealers as independent is the biggest joke ever played on all of us. Angus and Josh and Andrew and King and Silix are all probably sitting at a big conference table in one of the factories, with the "Don" sitting at the headof the table, drinking and laughing their asses off that we are all sitting here treating them as individuals when in fact they are all just non-rival memebers of the same crew. Imagine if the infighting was really just a leak of someone getting kicked out of the crew for not following orders or something? Like I keep saying, none of us have any idea what is REALLY going on over there. I'm just presenting some alternative scenarios but yet there are others who seem so sure of exactly what is happening over there. There is just no way that someone outside their "Family" is ever going to be privy to the real truth, myself included... I thought the Heritage is another watch where two different versions came out and at two different price points. Edited July 28, 2008 by RobbieG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slay Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 could you guys please stop refering to Andrew and Josh as J&A? J&A stands for Jay and Angel = silix. Call them JAndrew or cartel, or A-Team, but please not J&A, it might lead to confusion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermanx Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 No offense RobbieG, Andrew stating "I'm the reason we have every 1:1 project" does not make it so. It takes quite a while for many of these 1:1 projects to launch, and there are a few dealers that know... Most just don't go around stating it is their doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 I thought the Heritage is another watch where two different versions came out and at two different price points. it was, silix first and then a slightly better one from the others with a higher price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermanx Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 could you guys please stop refering to Andrew and Josh as J&A? J&A stands for Jay and Angel = silix. Call them JAndrew or cartel, or A-Team, but please not J&A, it might lead to confusion! I pity da foo that calls them the A-Team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanf Posted July 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 Beats me. I don't own the watch or know anything about two different editions. Just repeating what I was told by J&A. And this, Robbie, is why we're taking what you say with a big grain of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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