freddy333 Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Ok, I have the watch in hand & this much I know with reasonable certainty - the (non-hacking 19.8k bph) movement, crystal (which, except for a slight yellowing (age/sun exposure), looks like the gen T39 I installed yesterday on a customer's watch), stem & case are gen (caseback is most likely gen, but it could be a repro (an excellent repro) that was made many years ago), the hands appear newly made & the dial (which has a different 'rose' & slightly different lume than Chris's) is probably an aftermarket vintage piece. However, if someone (with more Tudor experience than I have) wanted to suggest otherwise on the dial, I would be an easy sell (it is much better than NDTrading or just about any other aftermarket Tudor dial I have seen). Initially, after reading Chris's original post & the seller's story, I thought this was a batch of exact duplicate copies, which would indicate a shipment of frankens from the same source. But the lume on my watch is different than Chris's (as well as the watch pictured on the seller's website), the crystal is clearly (no pun intended) older and in poorer condition (in this case, that is a good thing) & the movement also appears to be in a different condition & age, which makes me lean more towards the possibility of these watches being mostly or all gen. But, in either case, these watches are gorgeous. Now, onto the pics (As you can see, the movement & stem have obvious signs of genuine age & wear (rusting screws, stem, etc)) (The perlaged pillar plate is correctly numbered) (Caseback has the look, finish & feel --you can usually tell by the way a caseback screws onto a case whether it is a gen or rep-- of a genuine Tudor part, but is it real............I am not sure?) (Crown is probably aftermarket) Now to the Swimsuit Competition Here are a couple of gens for comparison ____________ My conclusion, well 3 conclusions - 1. Anyone who bought 1 of these for $275 ripped off the seller - I would easily have paid $800+, as is, & still walked away thinking I got a helluva deal. 2. I can understand why Girard bought the lot thinking they were 100% gen. I am still not sure myself. 3. If you missed out on this 1............well, you missed out on the deal of a lifetime. Sorry. Oh, 1 more thing - A BIG THANK YOU to Chris5264 for not only bringing this to the membership's attention, but doing it just in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 So I guess I can say "You know what, ...I'm happy!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4GTR Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Great watch. I'm definately jealous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted October 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 And for you propeller heads (like me), the movement is working exactly as I would expect a vintage Rolex-modded ETA to work Of course, this is far from perfect (or even typical of a Rolex calibre of similar vintage), but the beat is good & steady & can be improved with some simple adjustments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefcook Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Looks great! But: Most of the reps have the IV68 engraving referring to the 4th quarter in 1968 in the caseback... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted October 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 But: Most of the reps have the IV68 engraving referring to the 4th quarter in 1968 in the caseback... Exactly. But also for gens minted during the same period. Anyone have a known gen 7016 caseback they can post good, clear pics of (I am searching my picture archives as we speak)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribal Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Case also Tube and Crown,Caseback is all aftermarket. But really good one I have handeld Kelsters and changed the Tube on it. Also Dial is a Rep one. The movement seems to be an old Eta,will see in person next weeks. they come from Thailand I think. I have seen this ones also in blue and with brown dial times before. for the money a good deal for shure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted October 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 And if you prefer metal-to-metal I may have a new beater. By the way, I put the watch under a bright light for 1 minute & the hands & pearl (both of which look newer than the rest of the watch) glow, but the dial remains totally dark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted October 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Case also Tube and Crown,Caseback is all aftermarket. But really good one I have handeld Kelsters and changed the Tube on it. Also Dial is a Rep one. The movement seems to be an old Eta,will see in person next weeks. they come from Thailand I think. I have seen this ones also in blue and with brown dial times before. for the money a good deal for shure. Tribal - if the case is not gen, then it must be a genuinely-aged Vietnamese. I have never seen a vintage rep case that was made or aged like this. The crown is probably aftermarket, so I would expect the tube to be from the same source. If the movement is from Thailand, I would be VERY surprised. But, if it is, then we need to buy into whichever factory is making them, because there is nothing about the movement that would make me suspicious if a customer brought it in for repair & told me it was gen. Nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justasgood Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Did you get the serial # to see if it matches Chris'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted October 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Did you get the serial # to see if it matches Chris'? I totally forgot to check it. Unfortunately, it is the same as Chris's - 737738. So the case is aftermarket, but boy is it done well. Even the engraving looks gen (aside from what is engraved). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
its_urabus Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 I am so jealous... great watch, great pics. wear it well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justasgood Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 I totally forgot to check it. Unfortunately, it is the same as Chris's - 737738. So the case is aftermarket, but boy is it done well. Even the engraving looks gen (aside from what is engraved). Oh well, A skilled person could turn it into 737788.....if you know what I mean Great buy and I am still awaiting confirmation on my order...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted October 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Oh well, A skilled person could turn it into 737788.....if you know what I mean Great buy and I am still awaiting confirmation on my order...... Actually, other than replacing the crown/tube with gens, I think I am going to leave it just the way it is. Good luck on yours. As long as it comes through, it will be worth the wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillorin Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Nice Tudors, we'll see if my order comes through as well I think the only thing original on these is the movement, possibly the tropic but everything else is very well made and not typical rep. Tudor stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJo35 Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Wow, that is a gorgeous watch freddy. I've been thinking of picking up a gen, but after seeing yours I realize I need to research these quite a bit further. Thanks for posting, and wear it in good health! JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted October 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 Wow, that is a gorgeous watch freddy. I've been thinking of picking up a gen, but after seeing yours I realize I need to research these quite a bit further. Thanks for posting, and wear it in good health! Thanks, JoJo. I just canceled my gen plans, too. I cannot rationalize a gen when this franken is so good out-of-the-box (& for the price). But I do wish I knew more about these Tudor 'rose' Subs. Most of what I know about them comes from perusing my picture archives. I have loads of gen Tudor pics, but there is clearly alot of cross-pollination of dials between models. For example, I am seeing the same dial (similar to mine) in both 7016/0s & 7928s as well as a couple of other models that have cases that look different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris5264 Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 Actually, other than replacing the crown/tube with gens, I think I am going to leave it just the way it is. Good luck on yours. As long as it comes through, it will be worth the wait. Looks great,,,I like your dial better than mine, yours is more clean. Too bad about the SN as I was sure the case was gen,,,,it is just too good of quality to be a rep,,,but looks like it is at least a very high quality rep. I will also replace the crown and tube but no luck so far,,,,,but should be a good project.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 Congrats Freddy, that's an amazing catch, I'm really happy for you man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 I received 2 of these today. Serial number = DIFFERENT!!. the 7016/0 has serial 737711 has a 2483 movement, the other is a 7928 has serial 522714 has a 2459 movement. visible crystal differences in terms of height etc. different casebacks, different dials and different hands. crowns are different, cases are different. 7016 has a caseback very similar to a tudor hydronaut that i have, and the 7928 has a caseback more like a 1665 great white that i have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted October 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 Looks great,,,I like your dial better than mine, yours is more clean. Too bad about the SN as I was sure the case was gen,,,,it is just too good of quality to be a rep,,,but looks like it is at least a very high quality rep. I will also replace the crown and tube but no luck so far,,,,,but should be a good project.... As far as the dials go, I think it is a case of the grass is always greener........ I still cannot decide which I like better, but either would do. As soon as I can get another 703, I will replace the rep crown/tube. In the meantime, the big question is which 1 of the Three Stooges to wear tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted October 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 I received 2 of these today. Serial number = DIFFERENT!!. the 7016/0 has serial 737711 has a 2483 movement, the other is a 7928 has serial 522714 has a 2459 movement. visible crystal differences in terms of height etc. different casebacks, different dials and different hands. crowns are different, cases are different. 7016 has a caseback very similar to a tudor hydronaut that i have, and the 7928 has a caseback more like a 1665 great white that i have 2459? Odd, but like I said, there seems to be alot of cross-pollination within the Tudor line. Ray, are both of these Tudors from girards? I was not even aware they had a 7928? Can you shoot some good, clear pics of both - front & back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray T Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 2459? Odd, but like I said, there seems to be alot of cross-pollination within the Tudor line. Ray, are both of these Tudors from girards? I was not even aware they had a 7928? Can you shoot some good, clear pics of both - front & back? Both were from girards, i ordered the same watches that everyone did, and one came as a 7928. I will take some pics in a few hours, charging up the batteries for my slr. Both of my movements have some rust on it! looking quite gen to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted October 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 Both were from girards, i ordered the same watches that everyone did, and one came as a 7928. I will take some pics in a few hours, charging up the batteries for my slr. Both of my movements have some rust on it! looking quite gen to me. Weird. Are the dials the same? If not, does either have a chapter ring (the circular ring that runs around the dial outside the minute markers)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heywood Posted October 14, 2008 Report Share Posted October 14, 2008 Nice score Freddy! Very nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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