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Friday! Cleaning up time.

I have so many projects going on right now that I thought I would never finish any of them. Well, I finally finished my 5513 project today. This one has been in the works for over a year and has been mostly complete for about 5 months. I couldn't quite get the movement running like I wanted, so I sent it to a professional. After about 5 months, the verdict was that it just wasn't going to cut it. I was able to find another movement for a reasonable price, so I snatched it up. I serviced it myself and was able to get it running under COSC standards. I cased it up today and pressure tested it to 10 atm (it passed). The last thing to do was to take some decent pictures to share with you guys. So....here she is. I am really happy with the way it turned out. The only thing that isn't 100% the way I wanted is the dial. I couldn't find a luminova T<25 dial. If I find one sometime, I might swap it out. I was going for that fresh from service look. I love the vintage domed crystal but appreciate lume that glows. Anyway, here are the pictures and the build list. Midcase: Phong Caseback: Genuine Movement: 26 Jewel Hacking 1520 Crystal: Genuine T19 Crystal Retaning Ring: MBW Bezel Spring: MBW Bezel: NOS Genuine Bezel Insert: Genuine Dial: Genuine Luminova Service Hands: Genuine Luminova Tiube: Casker Crown: Genuine 703 Bracelet: Genuine 93150 with 580 Endlinks Thanks to all of those that helped make this project complete and a success (you know who you are)

Well it finally arrived. I previously owned the MBW Nautilus in S/S a few years ago. It simply didn't get enough wristime so I moved it on. Since I've been on a Rosegold binge lately, I decided to pick up this RG Nautilus. Overall the watch is very well executed. My twp big gripes are the terribly soft lug bar screws and the stupidly soft lug bar pins. Shaving down the lugs to fit the OEM strap with a Dremel was not hard. It can't be done with a small file. You really need to use a Dremel. In my case, I used a thin cutoff disk to gently widdle away at the thickness of the lug insert until it fit into the OEM strap. Not hard, but patience is key. A little at a time, as they say. The big pain was getting the lug bar pins into the strap. Thye're quite soft and they bend easily. In order to fit, they need to remain perfectly straight--a veritable pain in the a** that took me a tedious couple of hours grrrrrr. Anyhow, patience won the game and I eventually got the whole thing together. The silly lug bar screws are useless and they strip very easily. I'm going to cut off the threads and glue the screw heads in place at some point. This is a nice watch. The finish is terrific. It NEEDS an OEM strap. The rep strap is garbage. The clasp is really well done, too. The dial is the usual Nautilus style meaning that it does change colors with the angle of the light hitting it. Pretty neat looking at it as it goes from from dark charcoal to different hues of brownish grey. The brushed versus shiny finishing on the watch is stunning, too.

As many of you know I have a strong liking for the Breitling SuperOcean Heritage. So I have always wanted to build up the best possible rep that I could. As good as the V2 is there are still a few small things that I felt detracted from the overall impression of the rep. But, since availability of gen parts for this model is basically nil the only other thing to do was to mod. So the following illustrates the my brief journey into creating the best SOH rep ever So what have we here…. Well let me show you. 1) Gen (Used) Ocean Racer strap 2) Minty new ETA 2824-2 3) V2 hands relumed with Superluminova C3 A+ by the meister 4) V2 dial relumed with Superluminova C3 A+ by the meister All I can say is that the Zigmeister’s work is outstanding! Here is a closer look at these beauties (ignore the sweep hand, it flipped over as I was taking the shot). So the first step was to disassemble the old watch. Here is a shot part way through. Looking at this movement again in detail it really is quite well done for a clone. The overall level of detail is excellent. Just look at the pearlage. However, I figured this prized piece deserves the best engine I can reasonably get. Now here is the heart of the beast uncased and unhanded. Just look at those lume dots…yuk! The only thing I really need from this is the date wheel. So let’s get crackin’. Dial comes off. Out comes the date wheel. They really did a nice job on this part. It is not an overlay on an existing wheel. It appears to be made specifically for this which makes fitting it in the new movement that much easier, no extra thickness to worry about. Now here we have the new ETA movement ready for date wheel replacement. Out comes the stock date wheel. And in goes the new…I mean err…old one Perfect fit. Now comes the moment of truth. ALIGNMENT! Bang On! Just look at that In case you needed to see it again. Now that is how the lume dots should look. Next up is the hands. I spent a fair bit of time making sure these were on perfectly. I am happy to say that at precisely midnight the date snaps over crisply. Here is the textbook face on shot with hands at 10 and 2. Now of course this would not be complete without the obligatory lume shots. So here are a few to drool over. Just as a note, I only exposed the assembly to my desk lamp for about 10 seconds and then took the pictures with my point and shoot while progressively turning off the room lights. Superluminova is just amazing stuff! While I had it all apart I gave the case a good cleaning. Now the final assembly can begin. Here it is all mounted in from the backside. May not look like much there. But get a load of this! All buttoned up and ready to go. Now all that is left is to throw on the strap and wear it. All I can say is DAMN! I love this watch. I hope you enjoyed my over theatric presentation of this upgrade. I always like to show off my SOH so I couldn't help but take the opportunity. A big thanks to the Zigmeister for getting me one step closer to perfection and to the rep community at large. Without all of you none of this would be possible. Cheers!

As far as my experience is there are/is(?) always a flaw. The reps are always being better, but as PC-software; "in new versions old bugs are solved and new arrived". The gen produces are also creating new products. That gives new challenges to the rep-producers. Any way; a rep will never become a gen. Find a rep that you enjoy and find suitable for your eye and wrist. They have always a very good and "close to gen look". Our TD's will give you good pictures of it before you buy, and they have the best reps. You might find flaws on your watch, but that is a part of the challenge. From what I have read the "cleaner watches" are the best and easiest to produce. Some are also having the highest volume. That also gives the producers better experiences. Check out the guides and reports that are on the Forum. You will find much interesting there! Have fun! 8-)

NICE!!

Abyss Friday

Rather than hunt for a fly with a shotgun, get down to specifics. pick a brand you like, go to that respective forum and read. Do your research and make up your own mind. When you get a little knowledge, then you can make a decision as to whether or nort the particular watch fits you. Like 1680 said, all that tterminology is just advertising hype. If you go to the TD websites, every other watch is the new "Ultimate Supreme" Super duper 1:1 like gen, yada,yada,yada. Most of the "Super reps" are super because the member modded the watch with all sorts of genuine/aftermarket parts, case sculpting, etc.

Great job, my SBS 5513 says hello! I have a very similar setup, except for an Ingod dial and gen crystal. Omega seems to have altered the SM300 hands, I remember ordering mine from Ofrei instead of cousins, because they still had the older style hand when I built mine. I'd bleach the insert a little, add a Yuki pearl and match hands, dial and pearl color. After that you'll be pretty much set and have the best possible ETA-powered Milsub.

Nearly there though mate! Waiting is a bastard

Guys..If it was you that almost got ripped on 1400 USD, I think you also considered to post all over.. Since I was not ripped I will not hang him out. But the whole thing was very strange. Of course mod was contacted right away, but since we live in different timezones, I thought it would be a very good idea to inform in several threads. Not everyone that goes into every thread. Since almost 30 members contacted me I think there was some kind of interest. 99% of them replied that this smelled old cheese Thnx MIke on a bike for helping. Mr P invest Take care and bye the way. I will post all over again if someone tries to rip me off

You might have heard it as WHS (Incorrect Hand Stack,Wrong Hand Stack) Rolex GMT models use the following order to the hand stack:Hour hand-Gmt hand-Minute hand-Seconds (sweeping hand) Reps use the IHS:Gmt hand-Hour hand-Minute hand-Seconds Older reps were using the CHS (Correct hand stack) but it was a time bomb due to the unusual positioning of the hour-gmt hand on the 2836-2

Yes sir I remember. I miss this one. MBW 1680 with gen insert and gen 93150 bracelet modded by someone but I can't remember.

I decided to write this review for a number of reasons. Firstly, the Breitling SuperOcean Heritage is probably my favorite watch of all time. There is something about the simplicity of the design and its fashionable versatility that really appeals to me. Secondly, I have found myself to be in possession of both the V1 and V2 versions of this replication at the same time (long story for that but I won’t elaborate here). And lastly because there is discussion from time to time on what the differences are between these two versions, and while some of the major items are covered, being able to compare both side by side I could see that there were a great number of other differences and I thought that I would share these observations. SuperOcean Heritage I won’t go into the details of the history of this watch as it is covered HERE in this awesome review by Seadweller4000. However, I will include this picture of the genuine articles as I will refer to it later when discussing the dial. Ideally I would love to have had the gen on hand to do a triple comparison but alas I have not yet brought myself to purchase my grail. Instead I will try to use available images to complete the comparison (if any of these images are yours and you don’t want them used please let me know and I will exchange them for others). Case Here is a dimensional comparison of the two cases. My disclaimer here is that these are the best measurements I could take using the tools available so please don’t use them as absolute. Without having seen the two together I never would have thought that there would be such significant differences in the basic dimensions, but they are in fact different sizes. In measuring both of these pieces it seems that no part of the V1 was carried over to the V2. In the past there have been references to the size or length of the lugs and that they are too short. There is only a 0.3mm difference in overall length but the larger diameter of the V2 by 0.4mm should make the V1 appear to have longer lugs. However, the diameter difference affects the thickness of the lug where it meets the case and add to that the tip of the lug on the V1 is slightly wider which makes the V1 lugs appear “chunkier”, perhaps giving them the shorter appearance. I’ll leave the final judgment up to you but I think that both look OK relative to their case size. Along with these changes in the case size and relative lug size they have added a dimple to the case between the lugs on the V2 to allow clearance for the strap. Based on what I can gather the gen is also dimpled in this area giving the V2 another leg up on accuracy to the real McCoy. Also referred to previously is the relief in the area where the crown meets the case. This relief is very slight on the V1 but it is present. The V2 has a more pronounced relief but still it does not appear as clear as the gen. At least they are trying You can also see that the way the crown secures to the case is different between these two but I will get into that later. Another difference is the placement of the laser etched code between the lugs at 6 o’clock. On the V1 this code is too low and the bottom edge of the box sits right on the edge of the case. The V2 has it raised up more on the side of the case, although not centered very well. I can’t find a shot of this for the gen but I expect that since the gen has the strap dimple it too must have the code higher on the case. Case Back From what I can measure they are exactly the same size. In fact, I was able to install both case backs in either case, so the part is cross compatible. However, this is where the similarity ends. The obvious difference on the outside is the serial number, so at least they are not using the same one over and over. The more significant difference is in the font used and the spacing of the letters around the circumference “CHRONOMETER SUPEROCEAN EDITION SPECIALE ETANCHE 200M”. When you compare the starting and ending angles of the text the V1 aligns with the corners of the opener flats but the gen falls a little outside of that. The V2 looks to have corrected this to better match the gen. Another difference is the font used for the model number. Again the V2 is better in this regard with a deeper and thicker font with closer letter spacing. Now we move to the inside of the case back. Inside the V1 is very clean and has nice perlage but other than that is blank. TheV2 has the inscription “BREITLING SWISS MADE” on the inside, although the perlage is not as clean as the V1. I can only assume that the gen has this inscription as well. Bezel Here is a dimensional comparison of the bezel (same disclaimer). Like the case these two versions have differently sized bezels. Although the V2 bezel is actually larger, it appears smaller due to the fact that the insert diameter is smaller and thinner than the V1, giving the bezel a “chubby” look. In comparison to the gen the V2 appears to be more accurate. The V1 suffers from a coined edge that has been cut off at the face where as the V2 and the gen have coined edging that wraps around to the top. The size and shape of the coined grooves also seem to be larger, deeper and wider on the V2. So here again the V2 shines with its accuracy to the gen. Another problem with the V1 is the alignment of the markers as you rotate it around the dial. For whatever reason they only outfitted the V1 bezel with 90 clicks over the full 360 degrees of rotation. What this means is that if you have alignment at 12 then it is impossible to get alignment at 3 and 9. Very strange. Along with the other improvements of the V2 they also modified the bezel so that a full 120 clicks are achieved over the course of one revolution. Albeit at the cost of a very positive feel. The V1 bezel click is very pronounced and it cannot be inadvertently moved, while the V2 click is a little less satisfying. Dial There are a significant number of differences between the V1 and V2 dials. Overall the V2 is a very good replication of the genuine but the V1 appears to be an estimate, possibly based on photographs. The main reason I believe this is the way in which the black dial was made. The V1 has a glossy sunburst pattern on the dial (tricky to capture in a picture) but this was only true on the blue and bronze versions (see trio pic above). The black dial is actually a little more flat in sheen and has a very homogenous texture (no radial pattern). The V2 dial has this corrected and looks very good. Next of course is the dial font. The V1 suffers from a font that is a little too light and thin and is in fact the wrong font all together. The V2 has this fixed. Also, there is the famous alignment of the P & A. This being that the tail of the P in SuperOcean should align to the A in Automatic. The V1 does not but the V2 is spot on. Next on the dial are the gold hour batons. The overall surface shape of the batons on the V1 is incorrect. The genuine batons have only a slightly curved face but the V1 has these with significantly more arc, especially the ones at 3 and 9. Also, the double baton at 12 is too tall on the V1. The V2 seems to have corrected these issues and looks very accurate in comparison to the gen. Now let’s review the date font. Again here we see that the V1 has a very basic and un-Breitling type font. As with many of the other items this was corrected on the V2. Finally the lume. As with most reps the lume dots on both dials are poor. The only difference here with the two versions is that the V1 has thin circles at the lume dot locations where as the V2 seems to have filled in white dots underneath. The main benefit of this is that uncentered lume dots (which are inevitable) are not as noticeable on the V2. In comparing the performance of the lume I was surprised to see that the hands of the V1 were vastly superior to those on the V2. Here is how they look after initial exposure to a halogen lamp for 20 seconds. And here they are again a few minutes later. In spite of this better performance they are both still rep lume quality so neither of these are tool watch material. Crown The visual differences here are very subtle but definitely there. As previously shown the V1 crown is a little bit thinner and a little more “plump” then the gen. It seems that this too has been corrected as the V2 crown measures a touch taller (about 0.3mm) and has a more slender gen like appearance. The more significant difference is in the attachment of the crown to the crown tube. The V1 utilizes an externally threaded crown tube while the V2 has internal threads. I do not know what the genuine uses but my guess is that the change with the V2 was done to better match the actual watch. Also, this structure seems a lot more robust than the outgoing V1 type when tightening the crown to the case. The only other item of note with the crown is the “play” of the crown on the stem. The V1 is very stable when loosened off to winding position while the V2 seems to “wobble” quite a bit. It seems that this is due to the way that the crown is attached to the stem. It functions just fine but feels a little “inadequate”. Movement The genuine is made using a modified and decorated ETA 2824-2 movement called the B17. Notice that the balance is using a standard Incabloc shock protection system. The V1 that I have is equipped with an ETA 2824-2 while the V2 has the asian clone. This is one of the only areas where the V1 is superior to the V2 and what makes it closer to the gen since it is using the same basic movement. It is a shame that the V2 is not available with the ETA movement from our dealers. Regardless, let’s have a peek inside these pieces. V1 ETA 2824-2 Here we see that it is in fact equipped with a nickel plated ETA 2824-2. The balance has a Novodiac shock protection system which is not how the gen is equipped. I’m not sure if Breitling changes it or just has a different version delivered from ETA. The rotor is undecorated and non-marked, a little bland. Overall condition inside this case is very good and very clean. I am impressed. EDIT: Since writing this I have learned that this movement is not a genuine ETA. Zig posted a great investigation HERE. After reading it I decided to have a closer look at this movement and found that the identifiers peg this as a Seagull with ETA markings The balance jewel has only one notch for spring removal and the bridges are drilled for the alignment pins. I bought it as an ETA as I suspect the original owner did too. Disappointing to find this but not all together unexpected. I would imagine any of these nickel plated "swiss" movements in the V1 are in fact Seagulls...so buyers beware. V2 Asian Clone 2824 In this one we see a similarly plated movement. Notice that there are no markings under the balance so it is not even pretending to be ETA. Overall appearance however is very good and looks almost exactly as the genuine ETA. The nice touch here of course is the decorated rotor. This aspect is very true to the gen even down to the coloured inner bearing race. Nice! EDIT: Along the lines of the above investigation I took a closer look at this movement as well. This one in fact is closer to a gen ETA then the falsified ETA in the V1. While the balance jewel spring also only has one notch the bridges are NOT drilled. Seems in this case the V2 wins again for accuracy to the gen. Strap Both of these watches are outfitted with a rep OR strap with deployant clasp, and they appear to be the same, so I won’t go into any comparison here. However, I must admit that I am very impressed with the replication of this strap. The clasp of the deployant is smooth and easy to operate and provides very secure engagement. The rubber of the strap seems to fend off dust very well, which is a problem I know other rep rubber straps suffer from. My only complaint is that over time the rubber begins to develop “micro cracks” and the surface begins to dull. I am not sure if a genuine would suffer the same fate over time, it would be interesting to see. All in all a very nice strap and looks bang on to the gen. Final Verdict Without a doubt they have improved the overall appearance of the SuperOcean Heritage by leaps and bounds from the V1 to the V2. So much so that the V2 is virtually indistinguishable from the genuine. For me the only thing that prevents the SOH v2 from being an “out of the box super rep” is the absence of an ETA movement. While not a huge deal to swap out, still something that is not for the faint of heart. I hope you have enjoyed my little comparison. It is my first attempt at this sort of thing so please be kind Cheers!

My new addition: and after a quick resize.. and how can i not include the lumeshot

I would prefer Bespoke suits rather than choosing off-the-shelf because those are ONLY for us not for everyone. They are in exact fit. I'm sure they are, please do not bump 5 year old threads to promote your site.......Ken