automatico

Make sure the case reference number between the lugs at 6 o'clock is not 1500 or this will turn out to be a redialed 1500 OPD with a lower value (in today's market). The air king date case reference number should be 5700 for steel or 5701 for tutone. You can get by with a 5500 AK caseback on a 5700/5701 but the 1500 caseback is not cool. The 1520 movement is OK for a 5700 AK date even if the movement carries an official 1525 reference number because they often used 1520 autowind plates on date watches just like thousands of 1570 plates on date watches that should be 1575. note: the rolex parts book shows either a 1525 or 1535 in the 5700/5701 AKD but do not worry about the '0' instead of a '5' on any date watch. The machined cutout inside the caseback is not extremely uncommon. Maybe they milled the case manufacturer's initials or something away (CRS etc) before sending it out of the factory. Bottom line: Make sure it is a 5700 case...not a 1500 case.

They have snap on backs and non screw down crowns. The cases are 14K gold filled, use snap-in crystals, and the movements are lower grade 1520 17 jewel 'tarrif beaters'. (the 1530 is a chronometer grade movement with Breguet hairspring) They were sold mostly for award watches and you see a lot of them with engraved casebacks and/or trademark logos on the dial. I used to pick them up for $300 or less but the internet ended all that. The movements are the same as used in 17 jewel 5500 air kings and 5513 submariners. These 17 jewel movements are OK as long as the bushings are not worn out on the autowind assembly. If the bushings are worn, it is not much trouble to replace them with jewels but you will need to order replacement jewels by type, hole size, and outside diameter because they are not the same size as the jewels in regular 26 jewel models. All you need is a jewelling tool (or a staking set with proper punches and a steady hand) to make the conversion. Imho, I would not pay anywhere near $850 for one today because a 1500 OPD timehead (no bracelet) would be $$ better spent as they have better cases, chronometer movements, and go for about the same price as this particular $850 example.

"So WM9 George is lying through his teeth when he claims the movement in the new Sub is genuine ETA made in Switzerland..." Imho, I would give "George" the benefit of a doubt until a few movements are examined because the smaller etas are probably not as hard to get as 2824 etc. Something else...if "George" was planning on using chinetas and claim them to be swissetas, my guess is he would go with full size eta movements, not lady size. (I have never purchased anything from "George" and have no plans to buy anything from him in the future)

Ultrasonic machines are fine for cleaning watch bracelets as long as the bracelet is off the watch and not left in the running ultrasonic machine for too long (10 or 12 minutes is usually OK). Something else...when using powerful machines, leave the clasp unlatched during cleaning because ultrasonic action can etch the clasp where it snaps together and make it hard to open. Good cleaning solutions are Simple Green, Formula 409 etc. After removing the bracelet from the ultrasonic machine, scrub the bracelet under warm runing water with an old toothbrush and a few drops of dishwashing detergent to remove the cleaning solution and remaining dirt particles. Last...rinse the bracelet in warm running water.

Way too much $$ for that watch imho. example: http://forums.watchnet.com/index.php?t=tre...69249&rid=0 or a new tutone for a few bucks more http://forums.watchnet.com/index.php?t=tre...69931&rid=0

quote = You joined here this year. You've posted 39 times. You don't have a recognisable Avatar or signature. Until you posted on this thread, I'd never heard of you. How on earth am I supposed to read your mind and realise you've had three hundred and twelve years of experience and practically single-handedly created the rep industry? Merry Christmas, and a happy new year. Who are you again? /quote Make that 325 years and no, I did not do it all alone. I had some help...one guy part time. It's people like you that make the internet such a wonderful place. Your humble, benevolent, and courteous attitude...and such a way with words! I am truly honored you took the time to reply.

quote = With only 38 posts, it's inevitable. We have had our fair share of chancers. /quote Ok, I have a couple questions for you: 1...How long have you been on the forums? I was on the old EZ Board RWCC until it folded and on TRC as 'Rick' (member number 43). I changed screen names after a server meltdown (no law against that). I was a poster on TZ beginning shortly after Richard Paige brought it over from Singapore as well as a few other forums. 2...How long have you worked on watches? I started working on them in the late 1960s, mostly rolex since 1972. You probably started out on the forums green and asking dozens of questions and had no trouble at all. I started out answering questions and have not had a good reception at all. The Truth is...(imho) you are a newby compared to some of us. Mind your manners.

quote= This is what Otto Frei currently offers: - ETA 2846 movement; 21 jewels. $89.00 ...and this is with the watch. So yes, they do appear to be more affordable than ETA-2824/36. EDIT: Correction...Otto seems to be out of stock on these... /quote Yeah, same as J Borel. They can quote $89 as long as they do not have any to sell. If you want to order one, they are probably $129+/-...if they can get them at all.

quote = Interesting, apart from the fact they're less than half that price from Jules Borel. The question is whether or not they're in stock. Borel claims to sell 2836 movements for about $70 and 2846 movements under $60, so as long as they're in stock, I'm ordering some at that price. /quote Try it. It seems every time I say something, I get tested on it. I was just quoting a 'for example' to show a 2846 was less than a 2824/36. Maybe you should get on the phone and call around to supply houses and see how it goes. If you want prices: The last batch of new 2846 movements I bought a few years back cost $60 each from ST International but it took over 6 months to get them. (the packages are marked ETA 2846/3) About 20 pounds of Jaques Prevard diver watches (store returns and nos) with 17 jewel eta 2846 (all running) for $10 each a few years back. The last 2824-2 movements I bought were $40 to $55 including the nib Gruen watches they came in...2836 were $55 in nos Oniss watches. The last eta 2892-A2 movements I bought were $100 each in new JW Benson watches with leather straps and display backs. The last val/eta 7750 were $150 to $200 in nib w/p Hamilton Khaki chronographs at the Orlando NAWCC show about 10 years back. A man was liquidating all the stock from Hamilton's outlet store. I had 20 or 30 and sold the last one in early spring '08. 50 assorted new steel Seiko 5 and 44mm Orient multi dates with b/p for $28 each. (15+/- left) Like this: http://www.watches88.com/pd_orient_automat...nder_46d001.cfm A friend buys 500 (five hundred) eta 2824-2 at a time direct from Swatch and I will ask him how much they are going for next time I talk to him. Imho, what this all boils down to is never sell a watch for less than the movement is worth at today's prices...and the $159 swiss eta powered replicas that "Paul" sold a few years ago were a pretty good deal compared to today's $400 replicas with a fake etas in them.

quote = They do? Where? /quote Just to show I am not talking out my azz... Startime Supply, Houston TX November 5 2008 Eta 2824-2...$149 Eta 2836-2...$149 Eta 2846...$129 They had blow out on nib steel Berne diver watches with screwbacks, sapphire crystals, screw down crowns, Eta 2824-2, in a wood box for $149 each but they are probably all gone by now. Here is what they look like... http://www.bernardwatch.com/Berne Buy 50 movements and they will probably make you a deal. Note: Do not cover them up with nuisance calls...this supply house deals with pros, not hobby guys. Believe it or not...I do know what I am talking about.

Here's what it is... http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi...wk&ETA_2846 Nothing wrong with them except they are 21600 bph and you need 28800 bph in a modern rolex replica. They are great for vintage rolex replicas. They also sell for less than a 2824/2836.

"Historically that ladies sized movement has a reputation for being "moody"..." "moody" I never liked them. Never will. The upside is that they are cheaper to buy because you can sometimes find a lady size watch with one in it fairly cheap if you shop around. Otoh, I bought some nos Gruen 'swiss' watches for $40 (strap) or $55 (bracelet) with genuine eta 2824 and some nos Oniss day/date Prez look-alikes for $55 with swiss eta 2836 a while back so the 'little lady eta' also loses in price as far as I am concerned. ...and I still read now and then about how great the lady size rolex automatic movements are. From my experience, they are not very good either because my wife put a few behind the wall before I gave her a replica to kill. (it had a little swiss eta and was no better) Now she wears a Citizen Eco-Drive EW0484-59A with no problems. I have an automatic lady Eternamatic from the 1960's/1970's with a case smaller than a US dime...I bet you would have to play air guitar all day long to wind it enough to run all night long. Imho, little bitty automatic movements in general are not too hot. Time will tell.

Imho, if you do not know the interviewer, do not wear a $5k watch (especially a replica of a $5k watch!) while looking for a job. You might be surprised how sharp some interviewers are and they look you over very closely. Many may feel the same as you about watches but the vast majority do not and to some, a high priced watch on a guy looking for a job is a poke in the eye. You need to look like a guy who needs a job, not a guy sporting a $5k watch. When you have worked at the new job a few weeks (after the first pay day!) you can probably wear what you want. Since you are basically trying to sell yourself to the interviewer, do not take a chance on them zeroing in on an expensive watch. Thin, understated steel, tutone or gold plated watches are good for job interviews. Btw, I have never seen a sexy watch...but I have seen cool watches on sexy women. Good luck!

I doubt this will help but here it is... (no guarantee it is all correct) Daytona 6239 7205 (571) 7835 (571) 78350 (571) Daytona 6263 7835 (571) 78350 (571) Daytona 6265 7835 (571) 78350 (571) Daytona 16520 78360 (503) 78390 (503B) 78390A (with solid end links) Daytona 116520 78490 (with solid end links) Explorer 1016 7206 (58) 7836 (280) 78360 (580) Explorer 14270 78790 (558B) 78690 (with solid end links) Explorer II 1655 7206 (58) 7836 (280) 78360 (580) Explorer II 16550 7206 (58) 7836 (280) 78360 (501) Explorer II 16570 78360 (501B) 78790 (501B) 78790A (with solid end links) GMT 6542 7206 (80) GMT 1675 7206 (58) 7836 (280) 78360 (580) 62510H (550) GMT 16750 78360 (580) 62510H (550) 93150 (580) GMT 16700 78360 (501B) 78790A SEL 62510H (502B) GMT II 16760 78360 (501) 78790A SEL 62510H (502B) GMT II 16710 78360 (501) 78790A SEL 62510 H (502B) Milgauss 1019 7206 (58) 6636 (58) 7836 (258) 78360 (580) 93150 (580) Sea Dweller 1655 93150 (585) Sea Dweller 16600 93160 (592B) (with solid end links) Sea Dweller 16660 93160 (592) (with solid end links) Submariner 5508 7206 (58) 6636 (58) Submariner 6536 7206 (58) 6636 (58) Submariner 5512 7206 (80) 9315 (280) 93150 (580) Submariner 5513 7206 (80) 9315 (280) 93150 (580) Submariner 1680 9315 (280) 93150 (580) Submariner 16800 93150 (593) Submariner 168000 93150 (593) Submariner 16610 93150 (501B) 93250 (with solid end links)

"If he is using 2678 how is he getting the date in the right place?" Probably by cementing a proper font and distance from dial center date overlay over the original date disc. The day of the week works are removed. I had a new Oris 'Pointer' in 1996 and it was about 36mm or 38mm diameter but it had a lady size Eta auto in it. The movement was centered in the case by a big spacer. The watch was OK but I never liked the idea of a lady size movement in a full size watch. Oris 'Pointer' = The date numbers are written around the outside of the dial and a hand points to the date. Imho, the disadvantages of lady size movements are that they have small winding rotors and smaller mainspring barrels. This equals more arm movement needed to power a watch with a smaller, lighter rotor and less power reserve because of a smaller mainspring. I can think of one (and only one) valid reason for them to be used in full size watches...they cost less. I agree the new breed of ST etc Eta clones are OK as long as they price them accordingly...and keep the dirt, hair, and feathers out of them.

"Anyone have one?" Yeah. Got it from the famous watchcrook WLD five or six years ago and it is still one of my favorite replicas. The tubes in the hoods will work with 2mm submariner springbars but the case was not drilled for them. I drilled the case, put 2mm springbars in it, and installed a genuine case tube and crown. It tested to 6 atm wr and still runs fine today. The dial has correct size markers etc and the crown guards look OK as is. The case has "Stawless Steel, E116610" at 6 and "orig roley design" at 12. Inside the caseback it claims to have been made by "Monarch Polfy S A" in "Gelena Sh*tinerand", and under that it has "Stainless Steel", and "16610" (Gelena is a few miles south of Geneva) The first thing that should give it away to the average rolex guy is the solid link bracelet...but most do not notice. At an NAWCC show in Lexington KY a few years ago, a couple "rolexperts" tried to buy it off my wrist. I handed it over and told them I paid "about two" for it, meaning about 200 dollars. They said they would give me $2500!! I told them it was an Eta movement fake. They told me I did not know what I was talking about, it was genuine and make them a price. I took it back and told them to go to rolex school before they got screwed. They walked off talking about how dumb I was. (they had a good point) The guy who was with me still laughs about it. Rolexperts! You gotta love 'em!

I have seen China made goldtone Eta 2671 clones but none were marked Eta. They sold for $28US retail in mid 2007. Same dial foot location, hand size etc. If they were stamped with Eta trademarks they would be hard to spot because a genuine Eta 2671 is not very slick anyway. Eta 2824/36 etc clones with Eta trademarks are also hard to spot for regular watch guys. Someone used to working on modern Eta movements could tell. Most of today's 'Swiss replicas' = 100% China made watch with China replica Eta movement at an inflated price. 'Asian replicas' = 100% China made watch with regular Asian movement at a fair price. Imho, if the entire watch is Asian made including a China made Swiss clone movement...it should be priced accordingly. Maybe sell them for $25 or $50 above regular Asian movement watches, not a few $hundred. Always remember replica watch Rule #1: If they lie about the name on the dial...

quote = It's kind of interesting to see the Rolex prices dropping. Rolex is associated with wealth and luxury, and for the wealthy the economy is different. /quote Imho, modern rolex watches are no longer for the 'wealthy' but mostly for regular working people with good credit or a few bucks to blow on flash...people who buy into the 'rolex mystique' and/or advertizing hype. Exception...maybe diamond loaded 'garbage wagon' presidents etc are bought by lottery or law suit winners, who knows? ...but it would take a room full of shrinks a year and a half to figure out why a sane person would pay $20K, $50k, or $100k for a 40 year old rolex that sold for $250 new. I would not want to be the proud owner of one right now if I paid the 'collector price' for it a while back. I know quite a few guys who are in very good $$ shape and not one of them wears a rolex watch. For example... One has an old patek wind-up on a ratty leather strap and another now wears an analog casio waveceptor of some sort (he used to wear a regular casio analog). The patek guy carries it in his pocket most of the time to keep it from getting knocked around or wet (it's a typical patek...fragile). A 'trust fund baby' I know wears a cheapo plastic watch on a velcro strap. Her Dad used to be ceo of a US department store chain and he wore quartz department store stuff. Another friend has a garage full of porsches and HD motorcycles (paid for!)...and wears a black plastic Gshock. (I guess the 'Milwaukee Vibrators' would kill a mech watch)

quote = As a side note, an aquaintence who owns a couple of Rolex, has just returned from Singapore/HK. He tells me the used watch sellers, have literally drawers full of used Rolex and other high end stuff, recently sold to them. The statement was that "many bankers and businessmen are unloading their toys, and the current values were 20% of what they were 6 months ago" Don't know how much creedence can be placed in this doom and gloom statement, but that was relayed to me last weekend. This guy is an Indian softgoods trader, who is suffering hugely with the downturn, so it probably made him feel a bit better. /quote A friend trades in gold and diamond jewelry as well as scrap gold and he also buys quite a few solid gold watches (no gold rolex...yet) for less than the case will scrap for. He holds them a few days until I look through them and buy what I want for $20 to $25 each over what he paid. He also buys 'unworn' and 'like new' rolex watches and in the past few years, I bought over a dozen 'unworn' and 'like new' rolex air kings (14010/14010M) from him for $900 (like new) and $1000 (new) each, the last one a few months ago. Like new = 95% condition, worn a few days. (there's a story behind the AKs and I will not tell it here, but they are all legal with papers etc) When times are hard, a fancy watch is not worth much to the guy who needs quick $$ to pay a mortgage, car payment, tuition, or food. We pay more than a pawn shop because I can usually read their price codes and the last 14000 air king I looked at (in a pawn shop) was priced at $1200 and they had $400 in it. I offered $800 otd and they ran me off. Anyone who thinks the bottom has not dropped out of watches (in the USA) is looking in the wrong place. Tomorrow is trading day...no telling what I might come home with.

f333: "Rolex has a long-standing history (not to mention a trail of court cases) of doing everything in their power to strictly limit sales of Rolex parts to authorized Rolex agents within the official distributor network. For years, Rolex has been doing battle with ebay & other online auction platforms over the issue of an individual's ownership of (& ability to sell) individual Rolex parts (Rolex has always taken the stance that Rolex S.A. owns ANY & ALL individual parts bearing a Rolex trademark)." I have tried to help by parting out my share of genuine rolex watches over the years. It's the least I can do. Btw...I think retail rolex watch sales are deep in the crapper in the USA despite what 'serious internet rolexjunkies' say. (SIRJ = internet rolexjunkie with no sense of humor about replicas) For example, http://www.bernardwatch.com/Rolex JB has 270+ rolex watches for sale (as of today) and most of them are new in the box aka "unworn". He usually has 20 or 30. The "unworn" watches all had to come from rolex ADs. note: You have to use the term "unworn" because rUSA will come after you if you advertize a rolex watch to be "new" because they claim only authorized rolex ADs can sell new rolex watches. That's an oxymoron for sure because many ADs sell trade ins and returned watches as "new" to suckers who do not look carefully. How? Some rolex ADs have a "trade in guarantee" etc and will take any rolex back that was bought "new" within 30 days for full credit on another "new" rolex watch with a higher price tag. They do not send out the papers until the 30 days has passed so they can shine up the trade in and resell it as "new" again. Maybe that is why there is no longer a hologram on the caseback to wear away and show age. K00... "Perhaps all you Rolex fans should vote with your wallets. Stop buying. I completely lost respect for them anyhow when they stopped supporting their vintage watches." I agree 100% ...but I might pay 20 cents on the retail dollar for a brand new one when the prices get that low. Don't laugh, it can happen. Right now...I would be afraid to offer dealer cost for a tutone DJ, YM, yellow prez etc unless I wanted to take it home. After Christmas, tutones, solid gold etc may drop below dealer cost as struggling rolex ADs try to blow all their dead stock out so they can pay consignment bills. I know one area rolex AD that is just barely limping along, hoping to sell enough Christmas stuff to get by a while longer. Someone told me last week that the store had turned the heat down to 60 degrees and turned some of the overhead lights off to save $$. I may go see them in mid January when it's 20 degrees outside and cloudy with snow flurries...if they are still open.

quote = What stem do I need and where can I find one? /quote Some V72 movements have tap 10 stem threads (.9mm, same as a modern rolex crown) and some have tap 9 (1.0mm, too big for a modern rolex crown). Make sure your V72 stem has tap 10 threads, if it is tap 9, you will need a new stem. note: Sometimes you will see a tap 9 stem with a sharpened tip and it might start in a tap 10 crown but will seize up, break, or split the crown post. You can order a tap 10 threaded V72 stem from a supply house and it would probably be a good idea to get a couple extras while you are at it.

This is what is needed...nitty gritty shots of how to do it! Good tip on the datewheel, saves a lot of hassle...and the adapter makes it all possible without plastic spacers, shims etc. Next time you make up one of these...keep track every time you work on it and tell how many hours it takes start to finish. 1...time spent running down all the parts 2...cleaning the movement if needed 3...figuring out how to make everything fit together 4...parts made and/or modifications 'in house' or sent away 5...actual assembly time Anyone who has not done it will not believe how long it can take.

quote = Auto - Any chance you have a service (as opposed to parts) manual covering the 1030 series (including the 1036-GMT)? Or, at least, an oiling chart for same? /quote What I can do is make two sets of copies, one for ZZ and one for you. I will include oiling charts etc along with the V72 chronograph parts lists plus 1030/1030GMT etc. Since the 1030 and 1530 use the same oiling specs, I will send the 1570 chart. There is also an oiling chart for the chronographs. It will be a few days before I get the copies made and mailed out so send a pm with a mailing address. If someone else wants a set of these lists, you can send them one, then they can send a set to the next guy etc etc.

quote = I'm beginning to get anxious about the engravings on lugs because i did not find any. i'll try my best to get good pictures of the movement I'm just using my cellphone cam, maybe i could barrow a good camera tomorrow for a more accurate review. /quote The numbers may have worn off. Take a wooden toothpick etc and see if you can scratch all the dirt off between the lugs, then maybe the numbers will show up in bright light. If it is a genuine 6430 etc speedking, it will have a cal 1210/1220 manual wind 17 jewel movement. The manufacturing date will probably be stamped inside the caseback. II59 = second quarter 1959, I62 = first quarter 1962 etc Btw, I have a 6430 speedking...worn only a couple times since I bought it new from a rolex AD in 1972 (it was too small). I paid a blistering $130US for it on a leather strap with signed steel buckle.

quote = If you can email me the parts list, I would appreciate adding it to my library, I already have some info on the V23/72 series, but nothing on the 727 ones..." ZZ If it would help, I have complete parts lists with line drawings for rolex cal 72A, 72BC, 722/72B, 722-1, 727. Send a pm with a mailing address and I will send a set. Any country OK, no charge.