automatico

I first saw "swiss fakes" at trade meets etc. They were swiss made fake American brand pocket watches made to fool PW buyers and collectors. Back then, they were not very hot but now there are a few guys who collect them. Most of them were already worn out by the time I saw them so they were not worth much at all. Here is some info on them: http://www.antique-pocket-watch.com/fake-pocket-watches.html The first high quality replica wristwatches I saw were redialed steel, gold, and gold filled common watches redialed to vacheron, patek, AP, etc in the 1970s/1980s/1990s. I still have a few from back then...an IWC "Ingenieur" made out of a steel Nivada automatic, a tutone E Gubelin made from a Baylor automatic chronometer etc...pretty good stuff and they sold for $100 up. I started seeing "factory made" rolex replicas now and then in the late 1970s but they were junk for sure and I did not pay much attention to them. Most had swiss 1 jewel pin lever movements and were pretty bad overall. I still have a replica 1 jewel "Longines" and a "Seiko" from back then and they both will run it you wind them a few turns. They sold for $12 to $15. There were also a lot of fake 1 jewel Bulovas around back then with box and papers but if you looked closely, they had "Bolivia" on the dial. They were $20 to $40. The next wave of replica rolex that showed up were different types of steel case DJ with good dials and Harley Ronda quartz movements. They went for $50 to $100 depending on who had them for sale. In the 1980s I saw an ad in USA Today for replica watches with a toll free phone number...so I called it. The number was an answering service in NYC and they took my phone number and said "Andy" would call me back. "Andy" called back in about 15 minutes and said he would send a catalog so I gave him a mailing address and the catalog showed up in a few days. There were about 50 or 75 different brands and models in the catalog so I picked out a few watches and called the toll free number and left my phone number again. "Andy" called back and I gave him the order and he said the watches would show up in a few days COD. They were pretty good...Eta powered steel DJ were $75 each (had to buy 3, otherwise they were $100 each), and the quartz rolex replicas looked Ok but were base metal and were $24 each. I made a few orders with "Andy" and all in all, the watches were pretty good for the price, especially the Eta models. I still have a gold plated (g/p over steel) day/date from back then and it runs and keeps good time 20+ years later. This was just about all I had until the internet came around and I started buying a few off the 'net starting in the mid 1990s. (I saw where one guy I talked to on the phone about fakes in the 1990s selling on the'net had been busted and got 3 years in prison) I joined RWCC, TRC (member 43), and RWG. In 2001/2002 the famous WLD tried to screw me on a deal and I slacked off buying replicas. A friend got a few from "Paul" a few years back and passed them on to me but that's about it. I mostly work on genuine watches but am one of the few watch-hacks around here who will work on replicas so I still see a few.

Here is my story, I do not know where you can get the modified movements or parts for the conversion though. http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showto...mp;#entry662205

It looks to be a genuine watch but the gold filled or gold plated case is worn out. If the movement is Ok (probably a 1215)...that is about all you get, plus dial/hands. If you had a 6694 and wanted a spare movement, it would be worth a try. 1215 = 18000 bph 1225 = 21600 bph (later model) Both are 17 jewel, slow set, manual winders. If you wanted to buy a case and put this movement in it...Monster Time (Alvin Lye) in Singapore usually has a 6694 case. http://www.monster-time.com/rolex_cases.asp

CzM: "BTW, When I was looking at Orient watches here in Czech Republic, they dont seem to sell CEM75001M, which is a BEAUTY!!! (it is almost like Omega PO). I might as well consider them, but, on the other hand, no one will think I am wearing Omegas then, and with Omega reps, I might fool at least someone..." Orients are not easy to find in the USA either (at least for me), I would guess the best selection is on the internet. I have never seen one like in the link but it sure is nice. I currently have a couple 44mm Orients with 50 year calendars and a couple 34mm versions with day and date that have been for sale in a jewelry store for a few months but shoppers are not familiar with the Orient brand and will not buy them. JD: "Also, I'm not 100% sure the "Sapphire" glass that is advertised on $300 reps are actually sapphire. I'm more inclined to say they're mineral. Kind of the same way how sellers will drop ship you "ETA SWISS MOVEMENT" and it'll be a clone most of the time." In my experience, some are and some are not. I have an F520117 noobsub with a chipped crystal and it is sapphire for sure...I scratch tested it with a tungsten carbide graver. The TC graver will lightly mark a sapphire crystal but it easily cuts grooves in an MG crystal. I would rather have sapphire but I can live with an MG now and then. The problem is finding replacements the right thickness with the correct polished bevel (for rolex type watches). Paying the extra $$ for a swisseta and getting a chineta would make me red in the face though.

"But is that really so important? If you don't beat up your watches the quality of most rep is more than sufficient." I agree 100%. I have some replicas that are between 5 and 10 years old and they are fine. For example, one Eta powered no date submariner from "WLD" in 2001/2002 still runs fine and is still water resistant...it was less than $200. A couple DG powered GMT masters from a guy called "Cal" are still running after more than 10 years. All that has ever been done to the DGs was oil them when I got them...balance jewels etc. I am wearing a new DG powered GMT now that is running about +15 seconds in 3 days. It has a 21600 beat gold colored movement with the Dixmont-Guangzhou trademark under the balance and I have not done anything at all to it. "I think the best reps are much better watches than some people are willing to admit... because "they come from China and they simply can't be good" analogy. People also exaggerate the quality of their gens because they have spent so much money on them. It's human nature... you want to justify your expensive purchase somehow." Agree again. A large percentage of "swiss made" watches and parts are made in china anyway. It does not matter where a watch is made, only how high the standard of quality is. Imho "swiss made" is a head trip. "I have both reps and expensive gens and I really don't see that much difference on them." Except the price.

One alternative: http://cjsbargainbazaar.com/cjusbp_MickeyRolexladies.html

"It has SN F520117. So my guess is that the bezel insert was modified to fit this case. The insert came off as I was doing the razor blade trick (still haven't gotten the bezel off - at work and actually have to get some things done today). Anyways, the insert looks like it was glued on which I am assuming is not correct? " F520117... I have a couple of those. To remove the bezel insert, remove the movement, push the crystal out with your fingers, and remove the insert with a sharpened piece of plastic, wood, or fingernails...takes about 10 minutes. Clean the glue off the bezel and insert, apply some epoxy etc, center the bezel so it clicks on 12 high and glue it on the bezel with the pearl dot stuck in the insert. After the glue dries, replace the movement, blow the dust off the dial, line up the magnifier, and press the crystal in the gasket. If you give up on it...I need a crystal for the F520117.

"Aren't rep dials a little better these days? I know they are still typically about a mm bigger than the gens." Yep, they are bigger and better. I am going to make an acrylic crystal DJ out of it and a standard DJ dial is 27.9mm outside diameter. The dial seat in the case is 30.5mm outside and 28.5 inside so a standard dial falls through. I have a Bulova dial refinished as a rolex California dial but it is about 28.3 and it falls through. I need to make a spacer with a step in it out of another dial to go behind the Bulova dial but never got around to it. I have an omega cosmic dial and movement that will fit the case just fine and the stem lines up etc but the dial would have to be refinished as rolex and that is not as easy as it used to be. Besides, the omega movement is the type that you push the crown in toward the case to quick set the date and the date might flip when you screw the crown down. I machined the bark off a prez bark bezel to make a smooth bezel for it and installed a GS domed crystal to make it look like a vintage watch. The california dial suits it so I'll probably use it. Nothing is easy...

"Is it solid gold or solid gold from China?" I had a couple solid 18k yellow gold DJ cases and bezels for the cal 3035 and they used all standard rolex parts and were made in Italy. I paid $925 each for them in 2001. An 18k submariner case was $1250 at the time including the bezel. In 1999, I had a solid 18k daytona replica with oyster bracelet and modified swiss Eta 7750 and it was $2500. The dial was ratty and it had a 6.0mm crown, the case and bracelet were a first class job though. In 2001, I got a new 18k Italy made prez case with an Eta 2836 for about $1000 but it had an oversize dial and a standard dial will drop through the case. The dial was not very good so it never made it to completion. I still have the new case in my project drawer...it is stamped 18k and weighs 33 grams with a crown and acrylic crystal. Solid gold China cases might be a gamble. They may be stamped 18k and test 10k. I bought some China tutone jubilee bracelets that were 10k claiming to be 18k. Last time I priced an Italy 18k submariner case and bezel it was around $2000.

The best replica Pateks I have seen were genuine solid gold vintage watches redialed as Patek. Because Patek had so many case designs throughout the years, these will pass as genuine most of the time. Rectangles and squares are the easiest to get by with. Two hand quartz are good too, and a lot less trouble.

"Nothing short of a visit from the spirit of Ian Fleming is going to convince me that the watch mentioned in OHMSS was anything other than the prototype Submariner (before it was branded a Submariner)..." I have proof! Back when I had a genuine 6538, James Bond would not give me the time of day. ...but since I made the "1016" out of odds and ends, he has stopped by every Saturday evening for a drink and to talk about watches. Every week just before he leaves, he looks at my watch, smiles, and says "Nice Seiko". Just for fun... I did not care much about watches when I was a kid but there used to be some cool cars around the neighborhood: A guy out the street had a late 1950s Rolls Royce SC and we had a cat that was attracted to it for some strange reason. I had to walk out to their house every few days and bring him home. Another guy had a red Austin-Healey 3000. He was friendly and always working on it. And my favorite was a silver/gray Aston Martin DB5 coupe but the owner stared me down and would not allow me to get close to it. A friend had an MG TC with right hand drive...and a Cushman scooter (he had to have something to get around on). What did I have back then? A 1964 750 Norton Atlas. King Kong could not start it on a cold day. ...and a black 1961 Chevrolet Impala SS with a 348, three 2 barrels, and a 4 speed. Black with red interior, first year for the SS, about 450 were made. I was a kid and did not know what I had. Worked every day after school to make payments. The next year I had a 1962 Chevrolet Bel Air with a 409, two 4 barrels, and 4 speed...same story. A friend had a white 1962 Pontiac Catalina with a SD 421, two four barrels, 4 speed, and aluminum hood, bumper, fenders etc...it would be worth a fortune now. He married one of the hottest girls in town and immediately dropped out of circulation...he probably drives a Camry now. What is around the neighborhood today? (I still live in the same house). Mostly Ford/GMC/Chevrolet monstrosities, Accords, Acuras, Camrys, a Lexus or two, and maybe a Volvo or BMW. A guy up the road has two RR (one all black with square headlights and one tutone black/silver with round headlights), plus a late model black Corvette, and a Ferrari of some sort but he will not come to the door and the place is fenced in with a big black dog running loose. Word is he is from "up north" and is not very friendly. The RRs have not moved in over a year and he mostly drives a Chevrolet Avalanche (probably out hunting RR parts). I'd like to have a RR with a big block Chevrolet engine in it...a Hot Rod Snobmobile. A friend had a Chevrolet powered Jaguar a while back and it was pretty cool. What kind of motorcycle do I have now? 2007 Kawasaki KLX 650. What kind of car? A Camry of course.

"Where are the Cellini and the dress models like the Datejust or Day-date? And even Air King! I rarely see these pop up anymore." I like the rolex 1016, DJ, OPD, and AK best of all. "Bezel watches" like the GMT, submariner etc never seemed to me to qualify as "sport watches" because they are bigger and the bezels hang on pockets etc and can get knocked off during rough use/sports. Rolexophiles call the GMT, submariner etc "tool watches" and I believe that may be a better name for them as they are suited to a particular use...submariner for diving/under water work etc and the GMT for travel because it is a timezone watch. Recreational diving is a "sport" of course but submariner lore claims they were made for underwater work with Comex etc, not recreational diving. One exception is the Milgauss because it is a tool watch that looks like a dress watch. All the watches mentioned above would have to be vintage rolex watches with acrylic crystals because all modern sapphire crystal rolex watches with applied markers on the dial, blind lug holes etc are "jewelry watches" as far as I am concerned. The only rolex made today that resembles the original rolex "tool watch" much at all is the 14060M because it still has pierced lugs and stamped sheet metal hoods and clasp. Sapphire crystals and applied markers are not my style but the 14060M is as close as you can get to a rolex diver "tool watch" today. The new MG is also a good try except for the fancy bracelet and blind lug holes. The James Bond submariner was a mistake according to recent research: http://www.jamesbondwatches.com/ The movie producer Albert Broccoli supposedly supplied the first JB submariner to Sean Connery because it was all they had but the research indicates the JB rolex should have been a 1016 explorer, not a submariner. I made a "1016" project watch out of parts...16234 case, GS PA464-64C crystal (rolex 22 clone), bezel cut to fit the crystal, Yuki dial, rolex 1520 hack movement etc and have worn it more than any rolex (genuine or imagined) I have ever owned. So far, I got one compliment on it..."That's a nice Seiko".

"Very interesting! Might you have some pics of this one, automatico? Would love to see it!" I traded it off, maybe I can fix another one up later on. It takes 3 or 4 hours to change one over.

(4) 16520- Asian movement with faux chronograph. These watches have a standard movement inside with a dummy chronograph 'look' to appear as though it is a full functional chronograph watch. I have not seen or handled one of these so I cannot say as to whether the subdials are completely faux/glued on hands, if they act as a calendar function (day/date/month) or if the pushers simply move the hands arbitrarily around their subdials. Nice, slim case, but no functionality. I bought a few Daytonas with Dixmont Guangzhou (DG) movements that have running seconds at 6 but the center second hand runs all the time and the dials at 3 and 9 are calendars. All the subdials are numbered correctly for a chronograph. I took one apart and froze the 6 and 9 calendar hands so they would stay in place. Next, I ground some teeth off the sweep second pinion and cemented the sweep second pinion in place. The movement has offset seconds so it makes no difference if it the center sweep seconds run or not. I installed the dial and remounted all the hands and it worked just fine with the second hand at 6 running all the time and the center (timing hand) and 6/9 calendar hands not moving. The running seconds at 6 is not jeweled so I put some Dri-Slide on the friction points and the watch ran fine until I traded it away. Dri-Slide http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1247

Here are some good pictures of a genuine green MG... http://rolex.watchprosite.com/show-nblog.post/ti-445281/

The stem threads will be tap 10 (.9mm) more than likely (same as modern rolex). If not, you can buy a regular threaded tap 10 stem for it.

A genuine 127 is 30.45 outside, approximately 28.1 inside and 5.7mm high. A Sternkreuz 127 is 30.35 outside, approximately 28.2 inside and 6.5mm high. An unbranded 127 is 30.3 outside, approximately 28.2 inside and 6.45mm high. All crystals are unused and have been stored away from excess heat. None have been fitted and removed. The OD figures are very close but the ID figures are not exact because the caliper jaws are squared off. A Mitutoyo caliper was used so the measurements will show the differences as accurately as possible taking care not to squeeze the OD or expand the ID of the crystals when measuring them. Both aft/mkt crystal inside diameter measurements are close enough to work on a genuine case but the outside diameters might cause a genuine spec bezel to be a little bit loose. The crystals will expand a little when pressed over the case neck but probably not enough to make up for the smaller OD on both aft/mkt crystals. Always measure the OD of the crystal after it has been pressed on the case neck and compare it with the ID of the bezel to make sure the bezel will not be too loose or too tight. Example (Bestfit generic 135 acrylic for 16000 DJ): crystal OD is 30.5mm unmounted crystal OD is 30.65 mounted on the case the steel bezel ID is 30.5 = .15mm difference .1 may not be enough .2 to .25 may be too much It depends on bezel material and crystal hardness. Pressing a bezel on with it not level aka 'out of flat' can also break a crystal. If the crystal OD is too big it can crack the crystal and in some instances stretch a gold bezel (DJ etc). If it is too loose it may leak or the crystal and bezel can get knocked off the watch. Too loose = you can press the bezel on by hand. Too tight = harder than usual to press the bezel on using a crystal press. Use a loupe to look for cracks in the crystal between the case and bezel after pressing the bezel on.

It appears that the seconds hand does not sweep throughout it's course, instead on few positions, it looked like it was "jumping". What are other possible explanations..?? If it is keeping time, I would let it go for now. The jumpy second hand is probably just slack in the wheels that transfer motion to the second hand. Wait until it stops keeping time before you have it worked on.

Many years ago (when I was new at the watch game), I would look at a genuine $2k or $3k watch on my arm...and feel kinda stupid. Now I look at a $300 replica...and feel a little smarter. I would rather wear a Swiss Eta sub that can be replaced for $300 than a $6000 genuine sub needing $1000 in service sooner or later.

How about a complete running watch for $1350? I found this one in about 3 minutes... http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=tre...86225&rid=0

It seems to be another PP 'buyer safety' scam to increase sales and fees...and endanger sellers. Check this out: http://forums.watchnet.com/index.php?t=tre...08460&rid=0 I have never used paypal and never will. I would rather tape money on a goat, head it in the right direction, and slap it on the rump.

Pros and Cons: Pro = for Con = against As long as you do not pick the watch up, you have denial as a recourse depending on what you decide to do after weighing all the Pros and Cons...payment method, addressee etc. Pro/Con ratio 50/50. I agree that denial is a good defense but it depends on method of payment and who payment was made to if they decide to dig deeper. Pro/Con ratio 50/50. Chances are they are too busy to follow up if you deny you ordered the watch. Pro/Con ratio 50/50. Their problem is they have to prove you intended to buy a replica watch with the payment. If payment was made to an unknown individual, you are probably Ok. If payment was made to a known replica dealer/website...not so good. I doubt they would dig into your email (no way of knowing until it happens), but tracing an overseas payment is relatively easy. Pro/Con ratio 50/50. If you totally ignore the notice, there is no telling what they will do. Maybe nothing. Pro/Con ratio 25/75. Paying the fine means "I did it!" and my guess is their records are permanent. This makes them the Pro. ...and you the Con. Pro = professional Con = convict Think it all over before doing anything, but payment method and addressee can have a major bearing on the outcome if they get nasty. If you used Western Union for payment, you are probably Ok. Bank transfer is pretty good because the receiver's account is usually in a private individual's name. Paypal will rat you out in a NYC minute. Same with credit cards.

13 things 'wrong' with quartz watches: 1...cheap 2...accurate 3...dependable 4...rugged (compared to mechanical) 5...still on time when parked for months 6...no guilt when you run them until they die because of no service 7...fix or replace the movement when they finally go DOA, no $100 an hour Watch Wizard needed 8...no $500 service every 5 years 9...quartz chronographs do not have expensive, hard to repair problems like mechanical chronographs, just put a new movement in the watch 10...drown your quartz watch and you may be out as much as $50 compared to $1000+ for a mechanical rolex, panerai etc 11...do it yourself battery changes may cost as much as $1! 12...you are not afraid to see if it is still running after you drop it 13...no soul Maybe the 'soul' is where all the mechanical watch problems come from.

I recently had the 'pleasure' of working on a "1655" that I bought new 4 or 5 years ago because I finally decided to repair it...the date had been hanging up half way in the window since new. This Asian (not Eta factory) 24 hour modification was used on earlier models that have the 24 hour hand geared directly to the 12 hour time and the 24 hour hand is not adjustable at all other than removing the hands and remounting them. Hand stack from dial up: 24 hour hand 12 hour hand minute hand second hand The new gearset drives the date jumper as usual with a gear added on top to drive the 24 hour wheel. It sounds simple and it is. They usually do not give any trouble at all...as long as everything is correct to start with. Mine was not. The usual problem with this modification is hands rubbing or hanging up because they are just too close together. They stuffed 4 hands in a 3 hand space. The first thing I did was cement the rolexfont datewheel back on the Eta datewheel because it was loose (not uncommon). I stuck it on with two part slow set epoxy being careful to line the date up inside the date window and making sure the datewheel was not mounted off center. This part was easy. Next, I swapped the entire (genuine) Eta 2824 (28800 bph) that came in the watch for a slower beat genuine Eta 2846 (21600 bph) to mimic the rolex (19800 bph). First off, the datewheel was rubbing the dial a tiny bit and the date did not flip! quickly so I put some dial dot strips between the calendar spacer and dial to give a little extra clearance. Nothing to it but after putting it all back together, I still had the trouble with the date flipping half way in the window or not at all. I was not surprised. I have had to space the dial away from the calendar spacer ring a few times in the past so it was not out of the ordinary. This did not fix any problem other than the datewheel lightly rubbing the dial. The date was still hanging up half way in the window. Here is where the trouble was: When they add a extra gear to drive the 24 hour wheel to the movement, the new gear sometimes rubs the plate that screws down over the date wheel jumper spring. Let's call the plate that goes over the date jumper spring the 'date jumper spring guard'. You can not usually tell the wheel is dragging on the date jumper spring guard until the 12 and 24 hour hands start getting out of correspondence over and over for no apparent reason. Take the movement out, mount the hands in correspondence and blooey!, they are out of whack in a few hours because the double gearset slips where it is pressed together when it drags on the date jumper guard...while the watch still runs and keeps 12 hour time as usual (depending on how tight the double gear is pressed together). I said WTF! over and over because I never suspected the double gear was slipping where it is pressed together...I had it apart a half dozen times. What was happening was the date jumper spring guard was rubbing on the lower of the two gears on the modified type gearset and did not show an indication of rubbing until later after everything was back together. The fix: Remove the date jumper spring guard and file the contour a little deeper where the plate is cut out to clear the original idler gear. There is never a problem with the guard rubbing the original idler gear, it only rubs when the 24 hour gear is added. Note: Be careful not to remove too much material because there is a ledge made on the guard to hold the gear down. Next...be super careful mounting the date jumper spring and jumper spring guard under the glued on (bigger ID) rolexfont datewheel. Make sure the datewheel is level all around the movement plate because you can no longer see (under the rolexfont datewheel) where the date jumper spring and date jumper guard are seated because the glued on datewheel obstructs the view. One sure hint of trouble to come is when the screw that holds the date jumper spring guard on top of the date jumper spring does not bottom out solidly when screwed down. If the screw feels like it is not seating...you will have trouble. After the date works are assembled and before all 4 of the hands are installed, it is a good idea to mount the dial and let the movement run at least 24 hours with only the 24 hour and 12 hour hands mounted. Why? 1...to make sure the date still flips with both hands pointing to 12 midnight 2...to make sure the 24 hour and 12 hour hands stay in correspondence 3...to make sure the date flips! crisply and does not fail to flip or flip half way because it is dragging on the date jumper spring or guard 4...it is easier to r/r two hands than four If you are in a hurry...you can cheat by running the hands ahead about 23 1/2 hours and wait only 30 minutes until it flips. The watch needs about a half hour to get all the slack out of the 24 hour hand gears etc so the 24 and 12 hour hand position can be checked at 12 midnight. Tips: With the dial mounted and the time somewhere between 6am and 6pm (just to be safe), flip the datewheel around a least 31 days by the quick set to be sure that: 1...all the teeth on the datewheel are Ok and it does not miss a day 2...the datewheel does not drag the dial or movement plate If when quick setting the date, the date setting feels 'crunchy': 1...the date is trying to change or has just changed (no harm is done because the date jumper is designed for this) 2...the datewheel is dragging the: a...movement plate b...date jumper spring (not installed correctly) c...date jumper spring guard (not installed correctly) d...screw that holds the shiny plate on the 3 o'clock side of the movement (this plate holds the datewheel in place on the 3 o'clock side and covers the setting parts etc...the screw has a large flanged head and can rub the under side of glued on rolexfont datewheels) This modified GMT/EXII with glued on rolexfont datewheels and non adjustable 24 hour hand can sometimes have a problem but it's still not anywhere near as bad as the modified Eta GMT/EXII with adjustable 24 hour hand. Here are some good 2824 pictures and you can see the date parts in the 5th picture from the top: http://www.chronometrie.com/eta2824/eta2824.html Looking at the picture, all the trouble is on the left side and you can see the standard idler gear between the cp and date jumper. The GMT/EXII modification has another gear installed on top of the idler gear between the c/p and date jumper and this is where all the trouble starts...and the oversized glued on datewheel just makes matters worse when you have to r/r all this stuff. The 'big head' screw that might rub add on rolexfont datewheels is to the right of center, holding the shiny plate down. Most of the time it is Ok. Update 5-20-09: The watch went back to its old tricks...the 24 hour hand started getting out of whack after repairing the initial problem posted above. What happened this time around was the little tiny gear on the Asian made date jumper idler gearset that drives the 24 hour wheel was slipping on the internal tube it is pressed on. It was just too loose on the internal drive tube because of all the slipping it had endured (during setting etc) when it was rubbing the idler gearset. It did not seem to slip at first but started a few hours later after 'final assembly', probably because of setting the time over and over. I doubt there is any such thing as 'final assembly' with these things. The fix was to remove the hands, dial, datewheel etc (for about the 13th time!), remove the idler gearset, and stake the tube that the 24 hour gear is mounted on. Just set the gearset on a staking tool table and lightly stake the tube using a three point punch. Note: The idler gear that drives the 24 hour wheel is pressed on a tiny tube that comes up even with the gear at the top so the tube can be staked to make it tighter inside the gear. Since this part of the tube is above the post it runs on, staking the tube does not matter as far as increased friction etc is concerned. Staking the tube with a three point punch expands the tube slightly to increase its grip on the 24 hour drive gear. This Asian made idler gear is just hit or miss as far as being tight enough not to slip when new. Most are Ok as long as they do not drag on the date jumper spring guard. All this taking apart and putting together did not do much visible damage but sometime during one of the take apart sessons, I knocked the hand setting tool over on top of the dial and put a tiny mark on the edge of the dial. Fortunately, the mark is under the case where the dial mounts and does not show. The only other wear and tear that shows is where some of the black paint on the hubs of the hands flaked off. This happened on the first or second take apart and could not be avioded. Since I had to run the hands around a few dozen times, I oiled the canon pinion at first and it still seems to be Ok. The 2824/36 etc has a fairly rugged c/p setup. All this bla, bla, bla makes the fix sounds lot harder than it is. Once you get tha parts out and look them over, the fix is fairly easy. I tried to post this in the technical section but could not. Anyone wants to move it...fine with me.

"...I thought the noob crystal was 30.5mm and basically the same as a lot of other rep crystals- just wouldn't work on a gen, or you couldn't swap it for a gen." The F520117 crystal is 30.45mm wide at the top and 29.0mm wide at the base by 2.0mm thick. A genuine sub/dj crystal is 30.4mm wide at the top and 29.45mm at the base by 2.0mm thick. You have to use a crystal with the top bigger than the base like the noob and genuine because if you use a straight side crystal, there will be too much space between the crystal and bezel insert. I'm scroooed.