automatico

"as long as they make the parts widely available" Parts are the most important thing to consider when you buy a watch to keep for a few years imho. Look what has happened with rolex for instance...parts used to be available from any USA supply house and now no oem parts are available at all from supply houses and they have closed out a large percentage of parts accounts to non AD repair shops. No Parts For U! (aka NP-FU!) On top of that, they are refusing to service 1530 base movements half the time. What does this do? Now a new $35 crown goes for $125 on eBay and most 1520/30/70/75 powered watches are worth more for parts than as running watches. I believe O/S is right, I doubt clonemakers will ever sell parts for their cheapo clone movements. Since a new 2671 etaclone (CH1813) sells for $35 retail from Startime, why sell parts? If Citizen makes their high grade Miyota 9015 widely available, it could help too. I bet they start showing up in Bulovas. I am not high on Sellita because it is probably just another swiss NP-FU! outfit who only sells parts through the watch brand's service facility. I wonder which is the biggest insult to the swiss...a 100% china made replica of a swiss snobwatch with a china movement or a china made replica swiss snobwatch with swiss made eta? I also wonder what a 'non replica' swiss snobwatch with a china made case, bracelet, dial, hands, boxes etc really is? Don't get mad. Get even.

"Ive always just used a little drop of GS hypo, and if the case threads are getting beyond repair and leaking is a concern, then i use locktight (thicker liquid) to help seal it up. Do you have pics of these little washers? Are the conical in shape or flat? I see the 703 washer is plastic. Is that so it can form to the countersink needed in the case to get the 703 tube to sit flush?" Metal sealing washers are used only with 5.3mm and 6.0mm case tubes...7.0mm tubes have a plastic gasket between the tube and case with the case machined for the plastic gasket. Replica cases using 7.0mm crowns generally will not have a seat machined for the plastic washer. (6.0mm and 7.0mm tubes have the same threads where they screw into the case) The sealing washer is basically a tiny flat sided (not O section) silver washer that fits over the case tube threads and has an outside diameter a little smaller than the tapered edge of the tube. When the case tube is removed, the washer has been crushed and you will not notice it on the case tube unless you look for it. Gold tubes have gold washers. I have seen brass dial washers installed between the tube and case (trimmed on the outside so they do not show), so maybe that is an alternative if you do not have silver washers. I noticed some aftmkt 5.3mm case tubes now come with the silver washer but 6.0 tubes do not. Startime has the 5.3mm tube with a silver washer but does not show the silver washer in pictures: http://store.startimesupply.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=1&Product_Code=RP24-5330&Category_Code=1D_Rolex_casetube You can also use a non-hardening gasket sealer such as 'Three Bond' on case tube threads to help seal them. Three Bond etc also helps prevent the case tube from unscrewing if the crown has been screwed down too tight. An old crown with rough threads and a flattened out cap gasket will sometimes unscrew the tube with the crown.

"They are not listed in either the parts or service books for the 6542 or 24-600 Twinlock." I have been using the washers for 30+ years. Sometimes it is the only way to stop a leak. Here is the quote from an official rolex facory manual telling about installing case tubes: Instructions for use: 1. Choose the right tube (refer to Oyster catalogue R.20) and fit it on the corresponding broach. 2. Grease slightly the thread of the tube with Silicone grease Rolex Ref. 2909 or grease KT-22 Rolex Ref. 2907. 3. Screw the tube with its washer on the case band. The tubes stand a screwing force of 4 kg-cm. *Tubes No. 5330 are fitted with a silver washer No. 05310. *Tubes No. 6010 are fitted with a silver washer No. 06020. *Tubes No. 7030 are fitted with a plastic washer No. 06011.

Imho...$1400 is Ok but it's probably worth more for parts than as a running watch in current condition. Complete case will bring about $400, movement about $1200, dial/hands at least $200 if Ok, bracelet/clasp about $200. Part it out for around $2k. You might not make $600 on it after fixing it up and all the hassles. Had an open face 50mm omega 17 jewel pocket watch yesterday with 42.5 gram 14kyg case. Needed a balance staff, cleaning, crystal, and hands. Worth more for scrap than as a running watch in this economy.

Something else... Good idea to install a silver sealing washer between the case tube and case. (rolex p/n 29-06020 for 6mm and 29-05310 for 5.3mm tubes)

"Steer clear of the Asian clone Rolex "style" movements, they are garbage, well overpriced and will fall apart/break in no short amount of time. The dealers must make a massive profit when peeps buy them, considering they charge the same as Swiss ETA for them, or more in some cases! If I were you I would get the gen ETA version, although it is tricky to guarantee gen ETA these days, in which case the stock Asian clone (without the Rolex style crap) would be the best choice, and save you plenty of $$$ too." I agree 100%. Imho, I can see one (and only one) reason to buy a watch with an etaclone (2824/36/92)...the dial and hands will fit a genuine eta. Toss the etaclone in the trash when it quits and put a genuine eta in it. Sellita seems to make a quality swissetaclone but so far the asianetaclones I have seen were not too hot. I call 'em as I see 'em.

To remove the movement: 1...remove stem/crown while in the winding position by lightly pushing the detent button (yellow circle) 2...run the two screws (red circle) down against the movement, just barely tight 3...turn the movement inside the case so the screws are at 3 and 9 4...remove the movement When putting the movement back: 1...put it in the same position as it came out (screws at 3/9) 2...turn the movement inside the case to where the stem will go in 3...install the stem (it sometimes helps to lightly push the detent button and turn the stem a few degrees) 4...screw the crown down a little to align the stem/movement 5...tighten the movement in the case by backing the case screws out 6...make sure the watch winds, sets etc Do not overtighten the screws. Tip: You can remove the winding rotor in a few seconds by pushing the clip (down inside the slot just below the 'R' in TEMPERATURE in the top pic) toward the outside of the movement. This will prevent damage to the rotor axle and jewels when working on the watch upside down. You can also lightly lube the axle before assembly. Use a pointed tool of some sort...be careful not to push the tool too deep and scratch the movement. Make sure the rotor clip is properly seated and the rotor turns freely (and winds) after you get finished. Last but not least... Do not use a hammer heavier than 2 pounds.

I made a '1016' out of parts a year and a half ago and here is what it cost (from memory, but close): Parts: 16220 case...$200 iirc (it shows a lot of small scratches and has a little dent in the back but it's just fine because it makes it look more like a genuine 1016) lug holes drilled out for 1016 springbars original case tube and crown that came with case aft/mkt submariner springbars $10 (they have to be shortened and the ends polished) gaskets $10+/- 26 jewel hack 1520 rolex movement (cleaned, new stem, and mainspring...$750 for mvt, $15 for ms, $4 for stem) dial from some forgotten guy in China for about $100 (has SINGER on the back and precise fitting dial feet but it is 100% replica...no lume much at all after 20 minutes in the dark, same as a 30 year old genuine) aft/mkt hands $15 1016 spec (more or less) bezel $35 iirc from the same guy who supplied the dial (rolex 22 spec crystals have thicker sidewall and top than DJ) A hogged out DJ bezel will work but iirc they are smaller OD than a 1016 bezel. GS PA464-64C crystal $10+/- (same as rolex 22 and better than most internet mystery crystals) Total parts $1100 to $1150 Subtract around $650 for using Eta 2846 etc. Bracelet of choice...$20 to $400. Labor more or less: clean/oil mvt $100 machine bezel to fit the crystal $25 drill lug holes $25 put it all together $25 Prices are a guess as I did it myself. Any questions...send a PM.

"my noob.. gen insert gen crown gen tube swiss eta relumed superluminova" It looks good! Do you remember what the case serial number is? Thanks

"Let me know how it works out, I could send some work his way." I asked about it again today and he said for me to to round up something similar to what I need done and he will give it a try. I may take a couple old style bracelet hoods and see if he can weld tubes in them for 2mm submariner springbars for a start.

"Regarding 24H hand color ... Gens have yellow, orange or red .. One color is not better than another." I have a set of nos 1655 hands from about 10 years ago and the 24 hour hand is red...many later models had red 24 hour hands iirc. The last genuiine 1655 I worked on had a straight second hand (no lollipop) and orange 24 hour hand. The 24 hour markers went right up to the case like JAG's pictures. I have seen a few with yellow 24 hour hands and I always figured they faded from orange. (I'm wrong a lot though) Never saw one with a space between the 24 hour markers and case. There is a problem with the luminous material being right up against the case though...if you move the dial/mvt around inside the case much...the outer edge of the luminous material can get scraped off by the sharp edge of the case. Sometimes it just falls off. An accurate 1675 would be good too. I have one from 'Paul' from 2004 or 2005 and it used a submariner case. I have a genuine late 1970s 1675 and if anyone needs case measurements etc, I can dig it out and measure it.

"the same fail for my bracelet. replica blue ceramic sub. amazed to know now that the gens have the same desing in bracelet. completely unacepted for gen rolexes to have such ridiculous desing in bracelet! the entire watch sits in two small welded pieces of metal..." I made a remark earlier about genuine rolex bracelets and looking back, I believe rolex has totally lost their direction and is no longer interested in making 'tool watches' at all and is now 100% in the fashion watch business while using their past exploits to hype their modern watches. The milgauss and explorer might be considered modern 'tool watches' but imho the only TW they still make is the no date submariner. Anyway...I have a friend who has a laser jwelry welder and he said he would be willing to try to weld stainless steel with it. I will see if I can find something similar to the broken bracelet brackets and let him have a go at it. He repaired the lugs on a 14k watch case for me a while back and they were flawless when finished. He did not even have to remove the plastic crystal to do the job...hard to believe. Someone had a Speidel Twist-O-Flex bracelet on the watch for years and the spring loaded bracelet ends chewed the lugs up.

Ordered a center wheel for a Universal Geneve Polerouter cal 72 (not val 72) and it took about 6 months. Common part B/O usually a few weeks.

I gave my wife a replica steel lady DJ a while back with an etaclone 2671 in it. Why? Because she went through two genuine rolex lady watches...a tutone DJ slow set years ago and a tutone lady OP sapphire no date not long ago. Both were duds, they ran down after 12 or 18 hours no matter what. The slow set was the worst of the worst, nothing but trouble...3 cleanings, 2 mainsprings, tighten the cp 3 or 4 times from all the date setting etc, etc. At least you did not have to set the date on the OPD. Btw, they both were purchased new from a rolex ADs and the slow set ran more or less Ok for over a year before it went south (1 year warranty back then). The CMW who worked on the slow set said it best: "Lady slow sets are junk, always have been." We never worked on the OP no date, I put it away and forgot about it. I read where rolex claimed to make the winding more efficient on the lady models but who knows. They also use lady movements in mid size rolex watches. Now to the etaclone... The watch would run over 30 hours after a day's wear so that was fine. The problem was it gained 5 to 10 minutes a week. I timed it 4 or 5 times and it still ran away so I took it down and cleaned the balance jewels, hairspring, mainspring/barrel, etc, oiled everything (including the MS bridle and barrel wall), timed it again and away it went. It showed +8 to -6 seconds a day on the timer in any position. I even wound it until the bridle slipped and the watch did not speed up. Since I had moved the regulator so many times, I double checked the regulator pins and made sure the hairspring was not in a bind. I also demaged it many times. A couple weeks later it was over 10 minutes fast. I've had better luck with a $20 Seagull ST6. What do I think? I figure maybe they are built to a low standard and this particular example just runs fast. The 2671 etaclone is probaby not a whole lot better than any $20 Chinese DG, Seagull etc...they just look like etas and tick faster. I have no experience with full size etaclone 2836 etc other than one I got a couple years ago..the winding rotor fell off the bearing race and rattled around inside the case. I have owed a genuine eta or two that did the same thing though. Anyone else have trouble with this particular movement?

I have only seen them on 1560, not on 1570...yet. The spring guard aka 'curb feeler' was a pretty good idea imho. You can tell a 1560 from a 1570 by the beat rates. 1560 = 18000 bph 1570 = 19800 bph

I'm on the same boat, that little ball pin or however you call it fell off. I had the same problem with a SMP a couple years back...the latch pin pulled out of the clasp blade and I glued the pin back in the clasp with 'JB Weld' and it held Ok. I also put a couple small dimples in the pin where it presses into the blade to tighten it up a bit. I traded the watch away and do not know how long the fix lasted. I recently bought two SMP from yeldarb (one new and one like new): ...and they both have the catch pin riveted to the clasp blade with a pretty good size rivet head on the back side so maybe some models have been improved. One other thing I noticed about the two new clasps is that there is a little bit of up and down motion on the clasp cap with the cap latched down. The other SMP I had was fairly tight when closed and took some pinching to get it snapped sometimes. The tight fit might also have something to do with latch pins pulling out.

I saw a thread on timezone about this exact issue on a gen. The little lug is just welded on. That would suck to lose a gen DSSD or Submariner because of this. yikes! I read it too and it made me wonder how a big time watch company that brags about their watches being rugged would make such a chickenship clasp joint. A few years ago a friend lost a submariner (16610) while diving, probably springbar failure. They never found the watch in 60 feet of water. I told him a 40 pound catfish got it. Next, he fell off his Harley D and ground down a TAG auto chronograph. Now he is a Seiko guy. I would rather trust a $200 Seiko or Citizen diver to stay on my arm and keep the extra $9k in the bank. Imho rolex is overrated same as home cookin', 357 magnums, and Cadillacs.

Based from my experience, I've noticed that dealer vintage dials tend to be a little larger in diameter than gen-like dials. There are a LOT of aftermarket dials out there now and they do not come from the same factory. I measured a genuine 1680 dial a couple weeks ago and it was about 26.4mm. The dial was still on the movement but this is pretty close. I also measured 1680 and no date 'comex' dials from 'Paul' (aBay/Pam111) watches that I got 5 or 6 years ago and they were 26.55mm. Iirc, the watches I got from 'Paul' back then were close to genuine in overall size but the bezels just pressed over the crystal and fell off sooner or later. There were no inner bezels on the cases. I stuck a 2846 in the 'comex' along with a generic 19 crystal and glued the bezel to the case/crystal with epoxy. It is still holding together. It might pass for genuine...passing by at 70 miles per hour.

I sent a PM.

Moebius 9415 is for pallet stones/escape wheel.

I am not clear on how a USA judge can force a company in another country (Switzerland no less) to sell parts to certain people if they don't want to. Z... This action is aimed at USA based distributors such as rolex USA etc. They are 'guests' in the USA and must go by the law. It is interesting that the AWCI, the voice of the American watchmakers, has decided to not get involved in this issue, there is a letter on their site stating this. Wonder what that means... I belonged to the AWCI for years and dropped out when they started leaning toward the swiss watch companies. They caved in. If the USA wins some decision, where does that leave all the other countries in the world when it comes to parts? Many other countries are not so restrictive. The ones that are...they are a lost cause, same as in the USA now. Watch buyers can purchase a Timex, Bulova, Citizen, Seiko etc if they want independent service or a throwaway watch. I vote for Bulova and Citizen. I think the real power is in the hands of the consumer, many watchmakers flatly refuse to service rolex watches, simply due to the lack of parts. If the consumers realized that they have no choice but to send their watch to the AD and pay a monopoly rate, then maybe there would be a change...but really the change would have to take place before the watch was bought, not after. True. I will never buy another new rolex watch from a rolex AD. I no longer work on a genuine rolex watch unless it belongs to me because of limited parts. If rolex ADs posted "No parts sold" along with the repair rates on the wall, fewer rolex watches would be sold. Most people know when they are being screwed. Well, maybe not or they would not be in a rolex AD in the first place. Isn't it ironic that car's have lots of "replica" parts available for them, in fact it's a huge business and perfectly legal, hell you can even pick up a copy of "Replica Car Monthly" magazine at the local newstand...replica watches or parts - or God forbid a "Replica Watch Magazine" is looked down upon...go figure... My Toyota has a 'replica' windshield, w/s wipers, struts, headlight covers, timing belt, radiator, radio, etc and a Toyota AD will still work on it.

I mounted an empty case (no movement or caseback) in a lathe and cut the magnifier off an aftmkt 127 crystal and it turned out fine. After the magnifier had been removed, I started with 600, then 1000, 1500, and finished with 2000 sandpaper (not much difference between 1500 and 2000). Final polishing with 'Simichrome' metal/plastic polish made it shine like a new crystal. I have removed a few magnifiers by sanding the magnifier off, sanding the top of the crystal, then polishing by hand...it's a bit of work but it usually turns out that you can not tell it had a magnifier. Being able to spin the crystal just makes the job go faster.

I have owned 8 or 10 6694 models over the years (2 tutone and the rest steel). I still have two: Nos 6694 that I bought new from an AD in 1989 for $925. I figure it is now worth $2000 to $2500. (it is not for sale) Used 6694 in 90%+ condition purchased in 2001 for $850 (all original, never serviced). I figure it is worth $1500 to $1700 now. (it is not for sale) An example that is still in good condition and has never been screwed with is worth more than one with the case buffed to look new imho. The 6694 is one of the most troublefree rolex models made as long as you do not let it run down a lot and set the date by running the hands around and around all the time. A case tube and crown will easily last 5 years if you are careful screwing the crown down. Got a call on an old 6694 style rolex today in a gold filled case with running 1215 movement for $400 (do not know the reference number). The fellow said it was pretty rough so I turned it down. (cal 1215 runs at 18000 bph, cal 1225 runs at 21600 bph) He also had a steel 'big bubbleback' with DOA A260 for $400. Needs a balance complete at least. I passed on it too. I have seen a lot of vintage rolex watches for sale lately. No submariners, explorers etc but a lot of common watches...1500, 1603 etc. Btw, the first 'refinished' rolex dial I ever bought was a light blue dial for a 6694 that I got from a fellow in Taiwan about 10 years ago for $50 delivered...the letters etc are super fine. He sold it as 'refinished on original rolex dial blank' (the blank was not orginal). It is the same type of dial that Yuki etc sells today so they have been around for a few years.

First off, let me say I am not a fan of the OQ...but I will say the OQ is Ok as long as it does not need parts. (I have owned 3 OQ -- 2 tt, 1 ss) I do not like throwing a wet towel on the OQ but there is also a dark side to them. A friend worked in a rolex AD for 25 years and he had quite a few horror stories about them. Another friend worked on rolex watches and he would not even touch one because he was afraid it would quit while in his posession. He had a sign on the window that said "no rolex quartz repair". I will list a few pluses and a few minuses: Plus: They keep good time. Solid gold center links in tt models. Same date parts as 3035. Same crystal, bezel etc as 16200. Regular 6.0mm crown and tube. Minus: One speck of static electricity can zap the circuit board when changing batt etc. This can happen to any qtz watch but rolex OQ parts are $$! Regular repair guys will not touch them with 10 foot tweezers. The only place in the world for electro movement parts is rolex or a reseller with a rolex parts account. Step motor or circuit board will cost $300 to $1000 each depending on the source (straight from rolex or through a reseller). Used bracelet links etc are extremely hard to find. How much did I pay for them? TT OQ in 1998...$500. Looked good on the outside...rotten on the inside. I should have looked in it because the case and caseback were rotten with corrosion. Steel OQ in 1999...$100. It had a new 5513 caseback on it (??). Today, the caseback would be worth about as much as the rest of it. TT OQ in 2008...traded a used 14k gold Concord quartz no date dress watch on a strap and a new Citizen Eco-Drive Stiletto for it (total of about $500). The OQ was in 90%+ condition. How much are they worth? Imho, as little as possible. If you buy one DOA, look for $1000 or more for repair if you send it to a rolex repair depot. I feel that if they are cheap enough and you do not mind the gamble...they are Ok. I came out ahead 3 times but had to sell the one with the rotten case for just a little more than I paid with a warning not to get it wet. Thankfully, none of them went DOA on me. How about a replica steel OQ with a common quartz movement? That would be all right. Does anyone sell them?

"Another rep from the same time period (mid-80s), but from the opposite end of the (rep) quality spectrum. This was 1 of the 1st made with genuine gold plating & powered by an ETA 2846 (which were all Swiss-made at the time)." And it still holds its own! I have a stainless example from the same era with a silvertone linen 'diamond' dial (CZ or something) and 17 jewel no-hack Eta 2846. It sold for $125 over 20 years ago with a plastic crystal and jubilee style bracelet. Still runs after 20+ years but needs cleaning.