automatico

http://store.startimesupply.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=1&Category_Code=1D_Rolex_cparts-screw-SS

There's always something. My $159 ST19 powered '6263' from 'Paul' 3 or 4 years ago has a flat S, good number and 'units per' spacing on the bezel, with a low profile caseback...but the case is 3 or 4mm too big and uses a 20mm bracelet. It runs liks a champ though. I gathered up a smaller case '6263' with a Russkie 3133 and a spare V72 movement but I'm too lazy to tackle another project.

We all have had the same dilemma. Here's how I see it: 1...There is a better chance that the 'swiss eta' in a 3 year old watch is really swiss made than what is available today. 2...I doubt a few years storage would hurt it at all...some of the 'factory fresh' movements are 5+ years old anyway. When you buy the 'latest model' there is no guarantee the movement is fresh. 3...If you like it, buy it. 4...If it turns out to be a dud (no fault of the seller, he did not make it), then join the crowd, we have all bought duds. I am wearing one now.

"I remember when you could buy a datejust or date for $1000, take the movement and sell off all the gen parts for $400 or so... now just the movement is over a grand all day long. That was before idiots like us were buying them for evil purposes...." I think people are rushing to buy older watches before the prices go totally insane and for movement parts because of the 'NPFY' policy. Sometimes you can run up on a 1520 at a pretty good price. That is what I used in my 1016 project a couple years ago...it was $750 and 1570 were around $1000. If I was doing a 1016 project today, I would not consider a 1520/70 and use a 2846 to save $$ and because of 'NPFY'. "It bears repeating - pre-1990 DJs are going to become very collectible." I remember when the 1570 DJ/OPD etc production fizzled out around 1977 and the QS 3035 came out...slow set DJ/OPD were relatively stable in price until vintage watches became trendy in the late 1980s and awaaay they went. No Parts For You! aka NP! FU!

"Would you happen to have a link as to where you purchased your High Grade Swiss Relax spring bars??" http://store.startimesupply.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=1&Category_Code=1D_Rolex_SBars_Asst

I do not know (or care) about clickie springs (I am a 'slick top' watch guy), but I do know a little bit about springbars. I have genuine and aft/mkt relax springbars and I can tell you this: Swiss made aft/mkt springbars are virtually identical to genuine and the springs do not get weak after a few ins and outs. Most of the Asian made relax spec springbars I have seen were junk. I have to mark the genuine springbars with a Sharpie if I have the swiss aft/mkt and genuine out at the same time. I still can't bring myself to write ro..., ro..., rol... I get nauseated. Remember the relax motto: No Parts For You!

"I think I can probably reshape the PT crown to look pretty good." Some replica crowns are made with a thin layer of steel capped over base metal. If your crown is made this way, be careful because just a few passes with a file etc may go through the cap into the base metal. Unscrew the crown, pull it out to setting position, and look closely around the threads to see if it is a 'sandwich' or not. Genuine submariner crowns appear to be all steel but 'gold' crowns are just a gold cap over base metal, usually nickel silver...same for 5.3mm and 6.0mm crowns. The latest gold 'monobloc' crowns are supposed to be solid gold but I have never examined one.

Time Machine: http://www.minus4plus6.com/PriceEvolution.htm

A few years ago I offered all the crowns and tubes below at NAWCC shows for $3000 and all the rolex gurus said: "You're crazy, that's too damn much". I bet they would change their tune today after having to pay $100 for a steel 6mm crown or $250 for a gold 7mm crown. The amount I paid is listed (most of it came from from DRS Inc on 47th St NYC). I do not sell anything because I use them on watches for resale and can not get any parts now. Inventory on 10-11-10 (there was a little bit more when I offered it for $3000) Crowns 24-703-8...3.....$75 24-703-0...8.....$35 24-603-8...11....$35 24-603-0...10....$20 24-600-8...19....$35 24-600-0...10....$20 24-530-8...14....$35 24-530-0...17....$20 Tubes 24-7030-0...3....$22 24-6020...6......$8 24-5300...1......$8 24-5330-0...7...$10 24-5310...3......$8 24-5320...4......$8 None of it is the current 'monobloc' stuff so it is original to older watches...the stuff that needs tubes and crowns. Looking back, it would have been a pretty good deal for $3000. Glad I kept them. Current eBay prices: http://jewelry.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=rolex+crown&_sacat=281&_odkw=rolex+crown&_osacat=0&bkBtn=&_trksid=p3286.m270.l1313

Most comfy replica: I bought a brand new tutone quartz model from Alan Marcus & Co Washington DC, November 1990 for $1723 delivered. (traded it even for a like new tutone breitling chronomat auto on a leather strap in 1994) Bought three all steel quartz replicas a few years ago from a guy in NYC by telephone, $100 for all three delivered. (still wearing the first one, trouble free) What is it? 33mm (including crown) cartier santos. Second most comfy replica: Tutone sapphire DJ on Italian jubilee with 14k centerlinks. (eta 2836) All time worst wearing replica: Steel automatic oakley timebomb. It's the only one I ever did see.... but it's a hair pullin' sob!

"I once asked Joshua about creating a 21J seconds at '6 Daytona, with "killed" stopwatch and told him that it'd sell well. Joshua was very straightforward and said that the factories don't care because the timebomb piece of sh*t sells thousands every week." I have frozen the sweep second (center timing) hand along with the subdial hands at 3 and 9 on a few 21 jewel DG powered replicas and they all worked fine. I posted a while back how I did it, but no one reads my posts... I finally wore one of the converted Daytonas every day for a week to see how it would do. It kept time within 10 to 15 seconds a day, did not run down, and nothing fell off. Pretty good for a watch I worked on. It takes a couple hours to do the job and at least twice as long if I have to take the movement apart and clean it. Since the DG has an offset sweep second hand drive, it is relatively easy to freeze the center sweep hand. You can not tell the movement has been modified without removing the winding rotor and autowind/wheel train plate. They are a hassle to work on and do not go together very easily. I have fixed a lot of 'em with a 2 pound hammer. I would rather eat a live bat than work on DG/NN movements.

"Do you have a pic of the old Rep watch? I wonder how it compares to the gen. A lot of the case lugs on older watches have been polished over and over again and have gotten thinner over the years." No pictures of either watch, the genuine watch had never been polished but had been worn for 10 or 15 years. It was a one owner watch, the guy bought it new in the early 1970's for $300 or so. Iirc, they looked pretty much alike on the wrist and I doubt anyone but a 1655 expert would be able to tell the replica was not genuine while someone was wearing it. The dial looked pretty good too. Later, I put a 2846 in the replica along with a new generic 127 crystal that I lowered a little by sanding it down. A 116 would not work because the bezel ID was too big. I posted about the trouble I had with the 24 hour hand drive a couple years ago on RWG. The intermediate wheel that drives the 24 hour wheel had problems and the hands were too close together. I fixed the intermediate wheel but never installed a taller canon pinion and hour wheel. I traded it even for an 18k Gubelin automatic in May 2009.

I thought I would repost this in case anyone needs the specs on a genuine 1655. http://www.replicacollector.com/members/index.php?showtopic=26983 note: I was 'Rick' on the old EZ Board RWCC, and 'Rick' (member # 43) on TRC until a server meltdown, then I changed my screen name to 'jimmythree'. The W-674 was the 1655 offered by 'Paul' on his site in 2005/2006. I am working on a genuine 1655 Steve McQ and thought I would compare it to an early W-674 model from Paul that I am also working on. I weighed each one (tho) on a gram scale tho = time head only, no bracelet genuine 1655 tho 61g W 674 tho 63.3g Remarks: The genuine watch has thinner lugs looking down at the watch, showing more center case to lug tip taper. The crown guards are kinfe edged on the genuine watch and rounded on the replica. The crown guards on the replica stick out a little bit too far from the crown. The genuine watch case is 38.25mm wide measured from the underside across the 8 and 20 hour marks on the bezel. W-474 is 38.85mm measured at the same position. The bezel is a bit wider than the case on the genuine watch on the 9 o'clock side. W-674 case is a bit wider than the bezel at the same position. The bezel and case are even on the genuine watch at 4 and 8 on the bezel and the W-674 case is a bit wider than the bezel at the same locations. The genuine watch is 26.25mm wide across the lugs at the center of the springbar holes measured from the underside. W-674 is 27.25mm. Genuine watch overall thickness is 13.4mm with a used crystal. W-674 is 13.9 with a new generic replacement crystal. Both have 6.0mm crowns. Bezel OD on genuine is 37.95mm. W-674 bezel OD is 37.4mm. Centers of the springbar holes are 5.7mm from the mid case on the genuine watch. W-674 springbar holes are centered 5.4mm from the mid case. Genuine watch uses same springbars as a submariner. W-674 has smaller holes in the case as delivered. The casebacks are very similar in appearance and will interchange. The 'O' ring gasket on the genuine watch has a larger cross section than the W-674. The lettering inside the replica caseback makes it very easy to spot as a replica. The dials are very similar and both have straight second hands. The luminous material on the genuine dial does not stand up from the dial much more than the replica and the minute tracks etc are very similar. The tritium on the genuine dial is just about DOA but the condition is still pretty good although it has yellowed quite a bit. The genuine watch has a silver date wheel with black letters. W-674 has a white date wheel with black letters. Date magnification is close to the same. The genuine watch has a lot of wear on it and my measurements will not be exactly the same as a new example. W-674 is unworn. All measurements were made with a Mitutoyo electronic digital caliper. Comments...if the replica had the springbar holes drilled out, crown guards/case sides modified to match an original watch, genuine case tube and crown, genuine or generic crystal, and the case and crystal beat up same as a well used genuine watch...plus a slower beat movement (21600bph Eta 2846 maybe)...it would be hard to spot as a replica except under close inspection by a rolex nut familiar with the 1655. Modifiy the case and carry the watch in your pocket with your change and pocket knife for a week or two and it will look just like a $10K vintage genuine McQ watch. If you modify the case sides...the bevel on top of the lugs will probably be gone forever as it is extremely hard to duplicate. The genuine watch has this bevel worn away so it really does not matter on a beat up watch anyway. Conclusion...save your $$, buy a you-know-what!

"In related news, I built a pressure vessel last night to test my new Snowflake, pumped that sucker up to 110psi, and dunked 'er in water. Released the pressure, and DRAT! Two small bubbles from the ring/crystal interface and a small stream from the crown. New crown gaskets are ordered, and testing shall continue." When using genuine and oem spec aft/mkt case tubes on replica submariners...the leak is sometimes between the case tube and case unless the case has been machined to accept the oem plastic gasket between the case tube and case. This is a hard leak to stop at higher pressure without the case being machined to accept the gasket. Sometimes you can get by with coating the case tube threads with a non hardening gasket sealer such as ThreeBond 1104 etc.

From TZ: "After Jan. 1 in the US you will no longer be able to hold a Rolex parts account without owning a Roxer 125 and without a CW 21 certificate." T or F? Roxer 125 = pressure tester that will test down to 125 atmos and sells for around $6k. I do not know what is involved in a 'certified watchmaker 21' cert but by the time you get one you will probably have lost a couple year's wages. http://www.jewelerssupplies.com/product6621.html I would like to put a new gold relax el prezidente in a Roxer and crank it up to the max. I bet it would flatten out like a snail on a hot sidewalk after a few cranks. Imho, the intended result of this is to force almost all relax watch service to one of 3 or 4 'official' relax service centers in the USA. Their minimum charge is now $550 for any repair and all repair jobs now require a 'full overhaul'...even crystal or crown replacement. The only exceptions are watches under warranty and this is so they will not have to waste their time and $$ working on a watch that has been recently serviced (warranty is 2 years). Wasting your time and $$ is Priceless. Relax owner..."Pardon me kind sir but my relax 6694 needs a new crown and case tube." Relax repair..."Official relax policy COMMANDS! you to get a 'complete overhaul' at $550 plus parts for a grand total of only $891US...plus tax of course." Relax owner..."It runs fine and I only paid $700 for it." Relax repair...GET OUTTA HERE BOY! YOU'RE WASTING MY TIME." "Next!" Imho...this is basically a 'use tax' on rolex owners who are dim enough to fall for it. In relax USA's favor, the average relax groupie is a pretty tough bird as the recent 10%+/- retail price increase just makes them think their watches are worth more. They also go along that it is fair practice to raise retail prices on old stock in a retailer's showcase to the current price...some of it probably old enough to be in a store through two price increases. Their motto should be "I am proud to serve The Master." Btw...I read that the latest models have jumbled serial numbers with letters and numbers combined so relax junkies can not tell when the watch was made...so old stock can not be detected. Official relax AD..."Tell me boy, just how old is that relax sub-mareener you want to trade in?" Relax boy..."As far as I know it's only a year old, I bought it brand new right here last October." Relax AD walks away and makes a phone call. Relax AD..."Boy, your watch is eight, I SAY EIGHT! years old! It's only worth about $2200 on trade." Relax boy..."Bbbbut I paid $7200 for it a year ago kind sir...plus tax of course." Relax AD..."GET OUTTA HERE BOY!" "Next!"

Short term...Marathon with 'Maraglow'. Long term...Luminox with fresh tritium tubes.

As far as I know they will interchange. Iirc the sweep second hand for a 1675 has a longer tube than a 1680 because the 24 hour wheel makes the H/M hands mount higher. I have not worked on vintage subs/GMT for quite a while...'collectors' scooped them all up. Now it's usually 1500 OPD, 1600 DJ, 6694 OD etc. Starting 5+ years ago, I will not work on a genuine relax watch unless it belongs to me. It cut down from working for a bunch of idiots to working for only one idiot.

Most of these older models have 'snap in' crystals that are installed with a press or crystal lift that basically shrinks the OD of the crystal so it will fit into the bezel. GS has many styles of PHD (high dome) and PK (low dome) snap in crystals if that is what is needed. For example...if the bezel opening measures 28.0mm, it will take a 28.3 to 28.5mm crystal depending on the bezel design. Most PHD/PK crystals over 25mm will shrink down .5mm with no trouble. The bigger the bezel OD, the more oversize the crystal can be. 'Bezel' in this note = the top of the case and the crystal seat...not the actual bezel ring like on a 1600 DJ etc. note: Some of the bezels on these watches look like they are removable but they are not. I have a 6050 BB and it looks like the bezel might be removable but it uses a PK type crystal so examine the case carefully. After you get the movement out, see if you can pop the crystal out of the case from the inside using your thumb. If it pops out...it is a PHD/PK. Types of crystals: http://www.esslinger.com/gswatchcrystals.aspx Crystal press/crystal lift: http://www.tztoolshop.com/FB_Catalog_Xtal_Accessories.html

You can buy rivets and rivet tubes from supply houses in different OD and length. Buy a tube a few mm longer than needed and cut it to an exact fit. Be careful not to cut it too short or it will cause the flip lock to bind up. If the rivet tube is too loose inside the clasp blade...you can make a spacer out of a stainless steel springbar tube and slide it over the rivet tube inside the clasp blade hinge. Most of the time they fit Ok. note: A spacer is sometimes needed inside a standard (non f/l) clasp cap hinge...usually not on flip locks. Squeeze or press the rivets into the tube instead of driving them in to avoid flattening the rivet head and/or distorting the rivet tube.

"Case - WM9 v1 (actually PT's best from back in the day.)" What is the serial number on this particular type of case? Thanks!

I remember the Bulovias. There used to be a guy who came around car lots on pay day in the late 1970s selling them. I still have a pin lever fake Seiko that I paid 50 cents for at a yard sale many years ago. http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=tree&goto=5304391&rid=0

Sector quartz ADV2500 made in April 1986 (stamped inside caseback). I know, I know...quartz watches have no 'soul' and don't last long.

"Why is This Watch Worth $312,000?" Maybe because it counts off the hours and minutes same as a $300 Citizen Eco-Drive minute repeater.

"it's only when dealing with stuff like exotic hair springs that the movement can be considered to be superior to the regular version." As for relax...a regular hairspring probably costs $1 and the high grade hs with overcoil is probably $10 or less. I bought a new 'balance complete' for a 1570 a few years ago and it was a little over $100 retail. No telling how much they are now with the "No parts for you!" policy. 'balance complete' = balance wheel, hairspring, balance staff, roller etc ready to install

"Do you know if all DJ cases had drilled lug holes? I too am looking for a DJ gen case as mine is a Sh!tinerand case with no drilled lug holes and a modified fake caseback. Not sure which case number goes with the DJ though." Acrylic crystal steel and tutone DJs had holes...slowset and QS. Some solid gold acrylic QS models have solid lugs...I had an 18k 16018 a few years ago with no holes. Early 16200 etc sapphire DJ (starting 1986/1987) had holes and later models do not, so sapphire DJ with or without holes is correct. No need to worry with the serial number if you use a bracelet on a replica case. Do not know the exact date when the holes went away, probably around 1997 or so. From TRF... "sapphire model no hole case. the serial number is "U" and would make it a 1997"