automatico

"I just bought a DW case and will try that for this project. I will only use his mid case as his bezel is not gen. like construction but the upside is his case will accept a gen. 1570." I had two of the DW '1680' cases that we got on eBay a while back and they were not gen-spec as they were claimed to be so I sent them back. Does your case have rounded sides like a DJ? These did. They also had a very shallow gasket groove in the caseback so a gen-spec gasket would not work...you have to use a thin flat gasket. The rotating bezel was held on the inner bezel by a spring wire and the inner bezel would not work with a gen-spec 127 crystal...it just dropped down over it and the springbar holes were too small for submariner spec springbars. A 1570/75 with genuine dial fit just fine though. I came out on the short end on that deal and suspect that DW did too. A guy who worked for us handled the deal because I did not have a PayPal account. There was a delay on delivery of the cases so DW refunded the $$ after a couple months. Then they arrived (ordered 11-26-10 and arrived 2-8-11). Because they were not gen-spec, I gave them to the PayPay guy to send back. He still had the DW PP refund in his bank account when I gave him the cases to send back because I was still looking for a good 1680 case. Shortly after I gave him the cases to send back, he quit his job for other reasons (too lazy to work) and dropped under the radar with my $$ and probably the DW cases as we had not heard from DW up until he took off.

"I recently bought a 16000-series case (for $66!) so I could put together a Datejust franken. However, I'm still waiting for a few parts to come in, so I've had this case sitting on my desk for the last month. And the more I looked at it, the more I started thinking about Explorers. (Naturally). Specifically, I wondered how it would look with a Tropic 22, and a spare jmb bezel I had in my parts drawer." I have a 160xx and it will be the next '1016' project. The main difference in assembly is that a 3035 is about .4mm taller from the stem centerline to the top of the dial than a 3135 so the Eta etc will have to be 'thickened' somehow to work in a 160xx case compared to a 162xx case. "So why not a 160xx? It's like a mix between the 16xx and the later 162xx. The lugs of this 16014 are a bit thicker than the 1601's--by 0.5mm at the center of the case. And compared to the 16203, the tops of the 16014's lugs have that gentle curve seen on older Rolex designs. Finally, while I didn't photograph the casebacks, I can say that the 16014's has a greater resemblance to the 1016's caseback than the others do." I agree the 160xx is closer to a 1016 than a 162xx and I really think the 160xx is a better choice...and they usually cost less than a 162xx. Someting else...I bet the 6.0mm crown on a 5.3mm tube on a 162xx is not as rugged as a 6.0mm crown mounted on a regular 6.0mm tube on a 160xx because the little skinny 5.3 tube looks like it would be easier to knock off in a plane crash, rodeo, bar fight etc. It's very small where it screws into the case. "Another feature that I wanted to check was the rehaut. The depth and profile of the 16203's rehaut is spot-on with the 1016's, while the 1601's is noticeably shallower." The 'pie pan' dials on 1601/3 etc were an attempt to make the watches appear to be thinner like the 'pie pan' dial Omega Constellations of the same era. Since the center of the dial and the hands were mounted higher in the case, maybe they could use a shallower 'rehaut' than the 1016 with a flat dial. This is one good reason why the 160xx is a better case for a 1016 project than a 1600 case....and the 160xx has a 6.0mm case tube where the 162xx uses a 5.3mm tube with the goofy 5.3/6.0mm combo crown. "The 16014's rehaut isn't as deep as the 16203's, but it has a more vertical profile than the 1601. A pretty good compromise, all things considered." I agree 100%. "Am I missing something that disqualifies the 16xxx from the "Best 1016 Impersonator" contest?" Nope, ya hit da nail on da head.

"The feet on the dial are at 25 and 55 minutes - I'm guessing that's for an ETA movement?" Rolex 1530/60/70 etc dial feet are at 30 and 57.

"I have been doing much research and found a possible source for a Gen tropic 116. However, it costs US$200 for it. When you decide on the Sterny crystal, did you do much comparision b/w the gen, Sterny and Clark's version?" Sternkreuz 30.15 OD 28.9mm ID 4.65mm high close to the edge 6.08mm high at magnifier Genuine 30.25 OD 29.0mm ID 5.1mm high close to the edge 6.45mm high at magnifier The 'close to the edge' measurements depend on how close you measure to the edge. If you move a few mm toward the center, the figure rapidly gets higher because of the slight dome.

"I was searching for these, too, and found that same supplier. I simply bought one for my project from PBDad since he was going to be doing the installation, anyhow. It was also fully serviced and regulated. Of course, it cost more than $80." I bought a couple a while back from a supply house in the USA for about $100 each and they were new but needed to be cleaned/oiled so you did Ok. When I ordered them, they told me they were probably dried out. My guess is a new 2846 fresh cleaned/oiled is worth $125 to $200 now with all the price increases etc. In another year they might be $300... Saw on TZ that the swiss government gave swatch permission to cut movement production. This was posted June 8 on TZ public forum... June 8 (Bloomberg) -- Swatch Group AG, the biggest maker of Swiss watch motors, will be allowed to start reducing deliveries to competing timepiece manufacturers next year as it seeks to end a regulatory requirement that it sell components to rivals. Swatch, the Biel, Switzerland-based maker of the Omega and Breguet brands, will be permitted to scale back sales of mechanical movements to third parties to 85 percent of the level sold in 2010, the country’s competition regulator, Comco, said today in a statement. The world’s biggest watchmaker has been required to supply movements to third parties because of its dominant position. Swatch’s ETA unit manufactures as many as 80 percent of the mechanisms made in Switzerland, according to a Sanford C. Bernstein estimate. Swatch has sought permission from Comco since 2009 to choose who it sells movements to. The company has shown that it’s willing to accept a “gradual” solution, Comco said. Swatch rose as much as 40 centimes, or 0.1 percent, to 403.60 Swiss francs and was trading at 403.50 francs as of 9:48 a.m. in Zurich. Next year’s permitted reduction in motor deliveries forms a provisional measure while the regulator conducts an investigation into the matter, Comco said. 'motor' = movements

"The saddest part about this is that with Rolex tightening restrictions on the parts supply, independent watchmakers, many of whom were Rolex-trained & who do not have the luxury of spending hours/days/weeks trolling ebay, are no longer functionally able to repair a Rolex watch." Rolex is one of the very few outfits in the world who can get by with this...sell a man a common item but refuse to sell parts to the repair shop of his choice. What if your Swastiki computer needed a $10 part and you were forced to send it back to Swastiki and pay $400 for a 'overhaul'? I doubt this policy would last very long. Otoh it seems like AD shopper type rolex owners are Ok with 'bending over' when service is needed and rarely complain. I doubt I am the only one who laid down their genuine rolex and put on a replica/Frankenwatch because of this.

"I find this to be an interesting topic as well. The Chinese ETA is cheaper, but at the end of the day, if i'm buying a replica of a high quality watch that i'm going to enjoy, having a good movement is a plus, and if i ever have to sell it, there looks to be more interest in a swiss movement over chinese. If it's just entirely for show, and to try and get laid here and there no one is the wiser.." It's like FxrAndy said: "My opinion is to get the chinese copy of the ETA at least it will be new. But a swiss one can be serviced and spares are available." If I was going to buy a watch to wear for a few years...I would probably buy the etaclone version and wear it until it quits, then put a genuine swiss Eta in it. When you pay extra for 'guaranteed swiss Eta' there is no telling what you might get...new swiss Eta (unlikely)...new old stock dried out swiss Eta (maybe)...worn out/dry/dirty/ swiss Eta...(probably)...Asian etaclone (usually). I have purchased two watches 'guaranteed to be swiss Eta' in the past couple years and they were etaclones. Both quit in a few months and I am putting a genuine eta in one now. The good thing is everything fits the swiss Eta...dial, hands etc. Have a 2836 etaclone apart now...the roller jewel fell out. That' a new one! They usually just grind to a halt because of being dry or dirty. I will say this...if an etaclone is cleaned and oiled they seem to run just fine. Not many etaclone repair parts available in the USA though. Same goes for Asian '21 jewel' movements...but they are cheap to replace.

"Heck, I'm thinking it's around 1960. Like a 6694 Oysterdate Precision- these were produced into the early 80's, later models had the stick markers. This dial has the earlier hour markers, but the later straight hands. I agree with JAG's evaluation- $850+ or -." I agree. Oysterdate on the dial = manual wind with slow set date, cal 1215/1225. Dial markers look like 1960's and the hands may be later replacements. I have a 6694 (882xxxx serial number) made in the mid 1980s with flat top cyclops crystal, rectangular applied markers with luminous dots at the edge, and luminous square tip hands. It looks a bit more 'modern' than the one in the picture but they are essentially the same watch. Genuine hoods and bracelets are hard to find. One of the best watches rolex made imho.

"The crown height difference is not much between a 3135/3035 compared to a 2892/2824 but miles out with a 2836." A 3035 will not work properly in a case made for a 3135 as the stem will be in a serious bind because of the (approximate) additional .4mm distance from stem to dial with the 3035. This offset is amplified because the rolex movement takes up most of the space in the case so the movement is very close to the case tube and this will not tolerate much stem misalignment. Smaller movements that are farther from the case tube can stand more offset. A lady size Eta 2671 in a submariner case can stand quite a bit of stem misalignment for example. "If you start putting 3135's in these things they're getting too close to gen cost to build once you figure gen dial, insert, hands, crystal etc. If it was a rare ltd edition or rare vintage then yes that would be worth while but no way on a common regular modern sub." True, and I do not trust these replica cases to be WR to much depth. I do not want a waterlogged 3135. A waterlogged 2824/2836 is bad enough. I've had a few of them. "i dont get this fanaticism over having a gen movement, i know modern 16610s that are true to 3-4secs a day, compare a 2892 at $200 to a 3135 at over $1200, whats the point really. that extra $1000 buys all sorts of other visually gen goodies. even vintage, ETA is good enough for the COSC certified RADO diastar one at 21.6bph , Bulova, Enicar, Doxa, OMEGA, etc etc. is a gen rolex movement really worth 6X the price?" I agree 100%. It is not just the initial cost of the genuine movement/dial/hands/repair parts, you also have to figure the cost when the watch is dropped, drowned, lost, or stolen. Things like that happen everyday and I can take a $600 hit a lot better than a $2500 hit. The major reason for replicas in the first place is to save $$ and have fun. Too much genuine = too much $$ and not as much fun. I rest my case... (pun!).

"The old bezel with the 'bent paper clip' is the old bastard rep style. Ironically, Rolex used it on early subs- 6538, 5508, 6542 (GMT), etc, but changed with the 5513/5512/1680." I have seen a few replica vintage subs with spring wires, the first one was from Paul at Abay and it had the crystal just barely pressed/glued down on the case neck and the retaining wire in the rotating bezel held the rotating bezel on by catching in the empty space between the top of the case and the bottom edge of the crystal. If you pulled on the rotating bezel with your fingers or bumped it against a door frame etc...both the crystal and rotating bezel fell off. Have also seen a few with an inner bezel (crystal retaining bezel) with a lip at the top where the spring wire slipped under the lip to hold the rotating bezel on the case. The spring wire is captured in a channel cut in the rotating bezel. This setup works Ok although it is not original to 5512/1680. On two DW sub cases I had a while back, this was the method of mounting the rotating bezel. The problems with the spring wire mounting method come about when you pry the bezel off. You can: 1...Bend the rotating bezel. 2...Chip the spring wire channel in the rotating bezel during removal or chip the inner bezel lip when the spring wire slips past it while removing the rotating bezel. 3...The blade used to pry the rotating bezel off can chip the lip on the inner bezel. Genuine construction has a crystal retainer bezel with a lip and the rotating bezel snaps over the lip. The catch is that every time you r/r the rotating bezel, you shave a little metal off both bezels making the fit a tiny bit looser. This method is the easy to r/r but it also allows the rotating bezel to be knocked or pulled off when it gets caught or bumps something. On genuine submariners with gold bezels, you can sometimes pop the rotating bezel off with your thumbs from the bottom side or snap it off from the top with your fingers. "Don't know how much mixing and matching you can do with the two cases you have, all you can do is try." AG is right, it depends on the case and it's hit or miss...if the case neck is the same as a genuine 1680...you can mount a genuine spec crystal and look for an inner (crystal retaining) bezel and rotating bezel set to fit the crystal. On the DW 1680 case mentioned above, the crystal and inner bezel were not genuine spec...the case neck was Ok but the crystal wall was too thick and a genuine spec inner bezel will not fit. The DW 1680 cases had rounded outer sides like a DJ so maybe this is the way to spot one. No reflection on DW, he may not have been aware of this.

Karma or 'what goes around'... I can recall four or five 'Karma Incidents' plus a rash of minor 'Karma Events'. I'll not write them out because some are pretty rough. I guess it is like Earl said on the 'My Name is Earl' TV show..."You may not believe in Karma, but Karma believes in you." The last things I had stolen were an aluminum bird bath out of the yard and an electric leaf blower out of a garden cart. The blower thief must have took off running because the 100 foot extension cord was stretched all the way to the street before it pulled off the blower. What does a thieving lowlife dildo need with a cast aluminum bird bath and a worn out leaf blower? The extension cord was worth more than the blower. On a lighter note, everybody has a bad day now and then... Earl: [drunk] I got a story about Hank. It was Steve Coco's bachelor party. And like all bachelor parties, there was some entertainment. Hank: Uh, Earl, maybe this isn't the best time... Earl: No, no, don't worry Hank, I won't tell the bad part. So anyway, Hank goes into the bathroom with this stripper, and, uh, you know, some stuff happens. So Hank comes out ten minutes later with his tongue down the stripper's throat, sayin' how she's gonna be his wife, and all of a sudden, somebody says to Hank, "I think she'd make a better husband, 'cause she's a duuUUUuuuUUuuUUUUUDE!"

"Grease always seems to work its way to places that it shouldnt be...." True! Now and then I put a very small amount of Silicon 7 on a bezel when pressing it over a crystal to prevent it from sticking on the way down but I still worry about it making its way into the watch. So far, so good...if it will keep water out, it should keep grease out. "I wouldnt worry about that gasket unless you are planning to actually dive with your watch. I put them into mine because they are cheap, but I dont think its necessary for everyday use." I agree. No worry for desk divers. Since the early models did not have this gasket anyway, it was probably not that important. My guess is later cases were cut to accept this O ring in an attempt to keep water out from between the top of the case, the bottom of the bezel, and the base of the crystal because once water (especially salt water) gets in such a small space, it can stay wet for a looong time and do a lot of damage by starting and feeding corrosion. Corrosion = leaks. This is why you see corrosion around where caseback gaskets are mounted, under bezels, and between lugs...these areas trap dirt/moisture and feed corrosion. Three things to make steel watches last longer (Official FTC Ratings). : 1...Don't wear it (Foolproof). 2...Keep it dry (Fool Resistant). 3...Take it apart, clean the case, and change gaskets every few months (Fool Folly).

Sellita movements have a good reputation but they have the same problem as Asian etaclones...no parts (at least for now). Confucius Say: Any watch with no parts...sooner or later becomes parts. He also say: The difference between a dog and a fox is about five drinks.

"I converted a 1036 over to 1036GMT for my Phase II 6542 & if you think it is difficult/expensive to source parts for a 15xxGMT......" I am sure 1036GMT parts are a far worse headache than 1575GMT parts. "As you surmised, the height difference is due to the slightly taller calendar ring. You MUST use the specified ring, otherwise, the date disc will come into contact with the underside of the dial & cause it to stick or bog-down during date changes." Yes...this was Stilty's observation. I have worked on a few 1575GMT movements and am familiar with them but what I was NOT familiar with is the horrible parts situation. Parts for run-of-the-mill 1570/75 are bad enough today but since this latest parts gathering adventure, I figure GMT parts are probably not worth the trouble and expen$e to most F-stein builders. Hopefully this short update will alert any potential 1575GMT/XII builders to the trouble that lies ahead. I just about have enough stuff to finish this project and rounded up a V72 for a DW Daytona project but am having doubts about a Daytona project now. "All in all, it took me nearly 2 years to source all of the parts for the 1036GMT conversion, many of which came from retired watchmakers I located through networking. Every time you pass a jewelry store, ask if they have an in-house or local watchmaker they can recommend. These are the types of guys who can be invaluable since they often have these hard-to-find Rolex parts sitting in the bottom of their spare parts box. I know it has been said before, in the case of DW Daytonas & the like, but this level of construction is truly not for the faint-of-heart (or light of purse)." I know all the 'watch guys' in this area and none of them have anything. This is not a 'rolex town'...it's a 'Timex town'.

On 3-25-10 Stilty posted : I will be converting a standard 1570 w/ date into a 1575 GMT movement in the near future. I have noticed from tech sheets that a 1575GMT is 6.47mm in height while the standard date model is 6.30mm in height. A difference of 0.17mm. I recall somewhere, that the date disc seat is taller on the GMT then regular movement in order for the date disc to clear the date driving wheel. The 0.17mm makes sense. Has anyone here converted a standard 1570 to 1575GMT? Also, anyone have any issues with installing the GMT movement into either J&W, NDT, or Yuki? Are these cases made to gen 1575 GMT specs? Any issues with installing a GMT movement in the cases? I have the 1570 w/ date and the following parts on the way: #8038 - center second pinion 5.70mm #8037 - Cannon Pinion 3.39mm #8039 - hour wheel with double toothing 2.44mm #8040 - 24hr wheel 1.41mm #8035 - Calendar Wheel nut #8036 - Date Jumper #8006 - Yoke for cam #8008 - spring for cam yoke #8011 - stud for cam #8030 - Center wheel with Cannon Pinion I have #8034 Calendar Wheel in hand, so I think I'm covered as far as parts for the conversion, in fact a few may be redundant. @Zig: Is #8035 Calendar Wheel Nut, the nut you are talking about? I also have #8011 Stud for Cam on the way. I believe this is the post you are talking about? I see 8034, 8035 and 8011 in a grouping on the Rolex sheets. Zig posted: -the calendar and GMT gears are going to be next to impossible to source, I have tried for years and haven't had any success, the only ones I have ever seen were on existing 1575 movements sent in for service. If you don't have those gears, the project is pretty much a no-go. -the post for the calendar gear on the mainplate is almost certainly not long enough to allow you to install the new thicker GMT gear onto it. On a non GMT movement the threads just capture the nut, the new calendar gear is over twice as thick as the standard one, the post is not going to be long enough to allow the nut to be screwed down. This means you are going to have to remove, fabricate, and press in a new post, not an easy task and probably not many watchmakers who can do it. - I would make a ring of brass the correct thickness to place between the mainplate and calendar ring and move the ring up as required (that is if the other issues can be solved). The dimensions are critical, because this will affect all sorts of other things, which I know you are well aware of... Well...I read all this when it was posted but did not have enough sense to leave one of these projects alone. I am currently in a '1655' project using a NDT case/dial/hand kit, a 1575, some hard to find rolex GMT parts from Yachtmaster, and various $rolex$ parts from here and there. What have I learned? 1...Zig was right. Zig..."the calendar and GMT gears are going to be next to impossible to source, I have tried for years and haven't had any success, the only ones I have ever seen were on existing 1575 movements sent in for service." 2...NONE of the GMT parts are easy to find (in the USA anyway) and the calendar wheel p/n 8034 is very close to impossible to find. Stilty and I searched everywhere (Thanks for the help!) and finally found a new one at an obscure supply house in England. It was way over $100 by the time I got it. 3...The calendar spacer ring (7965) is harder to find than the 8034 and will usually set you back around $200 to $300 used. A new one will cost your right arm plus all your gold but I was lucky as one came with the parts from YM. You can probably shim the standard ring if you absolutely have to by carefully cutting a shim out of brass or steel shim stock. You can make one out of automotive valve adjustment feeler guage but it will probably have to be made in two pieces as feeler guage stock is usually not wide enough. I cut some out just to see how it went and when cutting it with very sharp scissors the edge will still curl up a little. 4...The NDT case is Ok and the 1575 GMT movement fits Ok. 5...The NDT case is extremely well made and very close to genuine. 6...Martyd3 was right too..."I tried to built the 1655 version of this watch. The project will set you crazy and you will end up broke. Why don't you find the best case available and buy a 2893 movement from FxrAndy? The end result won't be 100% accurate, but you will end up with a reliable watch and still have a couple of bucks in your pocket." 7...So far, I am about $3000 into this thing and it is not running yet. Stilty finished his and posted some pics September 6, 2010. Looking back...I might spend the $$ for a high grade case but NOT for a genuine rolex GMT movement.

"Your best bet is an AD, most of them will order one for you no questions asked. Just give them a call, some may even have one in stock, no idea about prices however. It pays to shop around, prices tend to vary greatly." "The 78350 I bought a few months ago was considerably more expensive at one place. I don't know whether he just got the price wrong or was trying to take advantage of me, I went someplace else and bought it 50% cheaper." "Just start calling Rolex ADs. Act dumb. Call mall dealers. They'll usually be willing to make a sale. But call all the local ADs. If you can't find one locally that will sell at retail I'd be surprised." Good advice imho. I bought a few clasp assemblies and hoods a few years back from a 'stranger' chain store AD. They did not know me and wanted exchange parts so I rounded up replica clasps and hoods and scuffed them across the concrete garage floor a few times. The replica clasps went right through. Steel DJ clasps were $65 each from the 'stranger' AD and from the 'friendly' AD (who refuses to sell me parts now), they were $42 last time I bought one. I doubt rolex tracks bracelet sales very closely so maybe a 'friendly' AD might discount a bracelet, especially if you are a steady customer. When we had a parts account with rolex Dallas we could get crystals, bezel inserts, gaskets, springbars, case tubes, crowns, hands, movement wheels, date wheels, reversers, mainsprings, balances complete, balance staffs, pallet forks, rotor axles, jewels, case clamps and all screws. No cases, bezels, dials, casebacks, hoods, bracelets, links, clasps, or main movement plates. The 'friendly' AD told me they can get all the above plus hoods/bracelets, and maybe a caseback, dial, or bezel once in a while with exchange. They might be able to get a mainplate on exchange but they never tried. The 'friendly' AD refuses to sell me any parts at all now after having an account with them for 38+ years. During 'friendlier' times, the AD owner told me he sees the vast majority of his customers as goofy SOBs with $$ in their pocket...$$ that he needs to relieve them of. He said he had a 'consensual relationship' with rolex USA... They sell him watches and he pays for them. They are all smiles and he is all smiles...but he despises them and they despise him.

If it is a plated marker...it could be the base metal showing through a thin spot in the plating. If it is a solid gold marker, it might be corrosion or yellow gold in the mix bleeding through. I have seen it before but never could tell for sure if the markers were gold or gold plated over brass. I saw a 1601 DJ dial last week with two O at the bottom of the dial and the watch owner said the O stood for 'oro' or solid gold markers and that run of the mill 1601, 16000 etc had plated markers. I do not know if this is true or not but 'rolexophiles' claim later sapphire crystal models have solid gold markers. Considering that 90% of 'rolex facts' are BS, who really knows? The proper fix would be to replace the marker with an identical marker from another dial. I would leave it alone for now though. It sure beats guilt stains...

"After some research, I see this movement comes from a company named Tao International, and is advertised as an 80 hour piece. So much for 3rd hand information Forum member "sul" says his can go 86 hours." Eighty hours is pretty good imho but I wonder how often they are supposed to be wound...every two days or every three? For example, I have a Favre Leuba 'Twin Power' (2 ms barrels) and it claims to be good for 48 hours but you still need to wind it daily because it will stop if you miss winding it every other day by a few hours. My Kienzle 'Atlantis Mecanique' (Plain Jane Unitas 6497) will run for about 50 hours but is not quite as accurate after 30 hours so you wind it daily. Then there is the Illinois 60 hour 'Bunn Special' RR pocket watch...it might run for 60 hours but you are supposed to wind it every day because it was designed to run with a 'tight' mainspring. I think the 'two barrel' Tao 80 is a cool watch movement just because of the way it looks.

I made an out of country purchase with a CC a few years ago and the credit card company called to make sure it was me. About 5 or 7 years ago I bought a dial from an AD in Denmark with a CC and had to fax them pix of the CC (front and back) plus my DL. Everything went Ok after that. Be very careful with debit cards though. Some have theft and fraud protection, some do not. At many banks and credit unions, one option for low cost overdraft protection involves linking the checking account to a savings account. The problem is when the two accounts are linked, anyone with access to the debit card can drain both accounts.

"If your talking about the 16610 Noobmariner then the bezel is almost impossible to remove." That's the truth! On the F520117 noob...the rotating bezel is solid on the front side under the insert (not cut out like genuine) and there is not enough clearance between the rotating bezel and case neck to allow the bezel to slide to one side and pop off. The bezel will come off but it usually bends the bezel. I doubt they were intended to ever be removed. The F520117 insert seat in the bezel is 37.55mm on the outside and a genuine 16610 bezel insert is 37.65 od and 30.70 id. The F520117 insert is 37.45 od, 30.6mm id and .95mm thick. You might sand a genuine spec insert down a little and get it in with no trouble. Since the F520117 rotating bezel is solid and not cut out like genuine, a genuine spec insert might be too thick and need to be sanded down to make it fit. Something else...there are a lot of 'noobs' and the F520117 is only one example. I have similar cases with D/F320840, F125967, F437091, P579998 (with lug holes), M550297, F432118. Some have a deeper 'rehaut' than the F520117 and some have an 'I' or 'L' type crystal gasket and 'flat side' crystal where the F520117 has a stepped crystal and gasket similar to genuine but not oem spec. I doubt 'noobs' as a group have a whole lot in common but I have found all seven of my F520117 cases to be exactly the same.

"The inner (vertical) [censored] on the case around the dial on most gen Rolexes is relatively shallow & this is an area that most reps get wrong (by being too tall/deep). If you have to err with a rep, I would always take the rep with the too shallow vertical [censored] over the too tall/deep [censored]." Watzup with f-l-a-n-g-e? I never saw one in a porn flick. Here is a good set of pictures for comparison: http://www.bernardwatch.com/watch/RLX5001

On modern submariner replicas with blind lug holes... If you want the springbars to appear to be genuine but do not want to drill out the SEL to 2mm, use springbars made for modern yachtmasters or jubilee bracelet GMT masters. They are the same in appearance as the 2mm sub-bars but are 1.8mm in diameter. Some F520117 noobs I have seen came with them. To see the springbars, go to Startime Supply and look at swiss rolex springbar number RP23-16622S.

"...how accurate this is compared to the real one?" "...horrible, forget it. the $100 noob is better." "The biggest issue and it is a huge tell is the ULTRA thin and wokky rehaut." 'Shallow rehaut' is a major problem with many submariner replicas as we all know. The standard 520117 noob case has a shallow 'rehaut' at first glance but when you look closely, the edge of the rehaut next to the dial is cut at a 90 degree angle to the dial so in reality the rehaut is taller than it looks...but it is still a bit shallow. Shallow can not be easily fixed but sometimes the 'wok effect' can be repaired. How? I have a modern Exp II with the wokky rehaut and I reshaped the angle of the rehaut in a lathe and it looks fine now. But there is always a catch, and the catch in this case (pun!) is that when you reshape a wokky rehaut to make it less wokky, it increases the id of the dial seat when you cut metal away to make the angle steeper and this exposes more of the dial. The X-II turned out Ok though. So what? you say... Well, if you remove too much metal, the dial can now be too small for the dial opening and will fall through or show the dial edge on one side. If the dial has been scratched from sliding around in the case...sometimes caused by pulling the crown out to setting position or turning the dial/mvt in the case...the scratches may show. I also noticed the date magnifier on the watch in the Trusty link might be 10mm off center rather than 9mm like genuine. Can't tell for sure but the magnifier looks too close to the edge of the crystal.

"The lug width on the poljot is 20mm, probably the reason for the lugs being thin." My Poljot PN looks way too fat...it is 19mm between the lugs and 16mm thick, the lugs look Ok though. The midcase is 34.8mm wide centered between the lugs (measured from the back), 36.4mm wide between 3:30 and 9:30, and the steel bezel is 36.6mm in diameter. The midcase is 6.5mm thick and has evenly spaced 4mm caps on pumper pushers with 6mm crown. The caseback is 34.4mm wide and rises 4mm above the midcase. The crystal is 30.2mm where it rises above the bezel. It weighs 57 grams (timehead only). I have a PN with a Seagull ST19 and it is 20mm between the lugs and bigger overall, except not as thick. Here are the specs on it: The case is 13.9mm thick overall. The midcase is 36.6mm in diameter centered between the lugs (measured from the back), and 5.6mm thick. The case is 39mm wide between 3:30 and 9:30 and the ('acrylic' insert type) bezel is 39.6mm in diameter. The caseback is 35mm wide and rises 1.9mm above the midcase The crystal is 32mm where it rises above the bezel It has a 7mm crown and screwdown pushers with 4mm buttons and 5.5mm collars It weighs 61 grams (tho).

"Prices have gone up..." Up! is right. Submariner 116610...$8000 LV...$8550 116613...$12200 (tutone) 116619...$34000 (18kwg) 116618...$31300 (18kyg) 14060M...$6300 (steel no date) 116660...$10650 (deep sea) GMT Master 116710...$7900 (steel) 116713...$11750 (tutone) 116718...$29500 (18k) (prices from the 'net, after May 10 USA price increase) If I were buying...I would get a used example from an individual (TZ, WN etc). Why? Let the first owner eat the sales tax and depreciation. No $$ will go to rolex USA or swizzerland.