automatico

Mystery movement... I know next to nothing about Daytonas but have a 'PN' that I got from 'Paul' 5 or 7 years ago and it has a 2 register russkie Poljot 3133 (aka Val 7733 clone) in it. The case is about 37mm and uses 19mm hoods. The movement looked new but would not run. No surprise there. Is the Poljot 3133 the 'mystery movement'? Are the subdials in the same position on the Poljot 3133/Val 7733 as a val 72? If we knew exactly which movements will work with a Val 72 dial (subdial positions, not dial foot positions), it would make it a bit easier.

"Even if you don't care for this sort of modification, I think it is a GOOD THING for our hobby, and the watch world in general. The more "Modified Gen Rolex's" in the wild, the better. The more people having GENs serviced by independents who may choose to use "Aftermarket" service parts the better. While I can appreciate an unmolested "Winder/Safe Queen w/B&P", lets mess with the purists who think using NON-Rolex hands, inserts or bracelets is a cardinal sin. The more muddy the water, the better... IMHO. This also sends a big Fsck You you to Rolex and their control freak nature." I agree 100% What the world needs is exact relicas of various rolex models (in outside appearance) with the trade name RELAX and the Devil's head with 2 horns to replace the hallowed coronet for a trademark. Below the dial center put: Supelazy Crapometer Officially Confused I'll take a black Submareener with a red Devil's head.

"I have seem these sites and surly they are pricing some of the watches for almost half the price or 40% off but maybe these watches are not of the highest quality reps (or are they??)." I should keep my big mouth shut but I can't. The exact same watch may sell for $100 up to $850 or more ($100 to a 'friend', $225 or $275 from various 'collectors' and as much as $850 from internet ripoff sites). Proof (facts...not my usual BS): A 'friend of a friend of a friend' is in the 'import/export' business in NYC and he sends us replica watches now and then. We do not order them, he mixes them in with fashion watches we order to get more $$ for the order. A few weeks back he sent a black dial modern explorer II with eta signed goldtone 2836 etaclone, sapphire crystal, and hollow link sel bracelet with screws all the way through the links. The hands are stacked 24h, 12h, m, not the chs layout. The 24 hour hand is adjustable backward in the date set position (one way sets date, other way sets 24h). The dial is close to 'noob' quality and it has a tiny coronet at 6 on the crystal. He also sent a blue dial/blue bezel 'ceramic' sub with the same mvt 'by mistake' to jack the price. He wanted $100 each and at this price he claims to make about $20 each and he told us a while back out of the blue that 'swiss rolex' is $80. Swiss rolex = Asian etaclone 2836 etc, not DG/CH/Seagull. The guy is in the cheapo fashion watch business and is from China so he has the connections. He does not know 'genuine swiss' from 'Asian etaclone' but he does know the difference between DG/CH/Seagull and Eta type movements. We never know what might show up next.

"Rolex Corporation is dead to me. I will continue to enjoy the vintage stuff, but Fsck them as a company and their practices." Me too...what he said. One thousand times.

"I wonder how do you proceed to drill holes in a 16600 sea dweller case to transform it into a 16660 case ? I mean which kind of tool are you suppose to use to drill from the inside lug of the case?" I doubt it would be advisable to try to drill the holes all the way through from the inside. All the 'blind' lug holes are drilled from the inside (usually at a steep angle), but the holes are very shallow so being out of level does not matter. The first time I drilled a no hole DJ case, I used a spring loaded center punch to dimple all four lugs where I wanted the holes. Then I drilled the holes in two steps...one smaller bit all the way through and finished with the correct size. It worked fine. On the next case, a bit broke off in one lug just after meeting with the existing hole and I drove it out from the inside and saved the case. Then a bit broke off part way through and screwed the lug up because the bit flexed when it broke and walked across the lug before I could let off on the drill press feed. A submariner case might be a little easier because of the flat sides. After thinking it over, I guess the best bet is to make a case holding fixture of some sort that holds the case securely and can be mounted in a drill press or small milling machine. I may get a couple pieces of aluminum (softer than steel = less scratching) and make a clamping device to hold a bare case...no crystal. It will probably work Ok with the bezel still on the watch but with the insert removed. I will use a miniature milling machine next time and mount the holder and case in the machine so it does not move around at all. It would be best to pad the aluminum with something but it would have to be fairly rigid...maybe self adhesive plastic/asphalt floor tile with peel off backing like you use over concrete floors etc. The milling machine has a manual screw feed and is much easier to control the cutting rate than a drill press. It also has infinite bit speed so starting the bit will be a lot easier. If this works, I will post the results. It may be a while though. "I can enlarge existing holes, but for virgin holes I turn to jmb." I am going to leave this one alone for now but it sounds sorta like JMB been hangin' around the High School again...

"...what would be the next best thing?" The case and dial are the most important parts so if you can find a good case and dial (even if it has a DG etc movement), you can make a 'swiss replica' GMT II using an Eta 2836 GMT movement and hands. Be sure to use the 2836 with the 'incorrect hand stack' (ihs) with 24H, 12H, M hand from dial up as most of the adjustable 'correct hand stack' (chs) models cause trouble. Otoh, the 'chs' model might be Ok if you never set the adjustable hand but I really do not know much about them. Read up on the 'chs' models to be sure. All Eta 2836 GMT movements in replicas are modified regular movements afaik but the 'ihs' models seem to run Ok with no trouble. You might have to buy a longer canon pinion and hour wheel to give more hand clearance but this is a minor fix.

"My question is....how could he have so many so-called "Rolex" crystals out of packaging???" I bought a batch of 'retired watchmaker parts' a few years ago and there were 10 or 12 genuine rolex crystals in 'Bestfit' packages labeled 'Genuine Rolex Part'. A few months ago I bought some nos genuine rolex mainsprings and they were in 'Bestfit' packages. Many years ago when supply houses sold genuine rolex parts, some parts came in envelopes signed by the company that sold them with no rolex trademark. Maybe these crystals came from a similar source. My older genuine rolex crystals came in green and white paper envelopes (tudor in red and white) with the rolex logo and 'rolex watch USA inc...genuine materials' printed on them and many have the part number hand printed instead of stamped. They were packaged in NYC and probably came in unmarked boxes or envelopes to begin with. I stopped selling genuine crystals in paper envelopes to 'strangers' because I can not prove they are genuine. Acrylic crystals now come in rolex signed heat sealed plastic bags but there may be fakes by now. If I was making a replica or Frankenstein watch, I would probably go with an aft/mkt crystal anyway. After you find what you want, buy a few spares because you can not count on the exact same crystal being available for long.

Why did Rolex decide to control (buy) 100% of Beyeler dial company? In 2001 Jean Pierre Jaquet and his 170 employees used to work for various brands like Ulysses Nardin, Swatch group... and Rolex. Today Swiss Mister Jaquet, from La chaux de Fonds, as been put in jail by judge Sylvie Favre following a scam concerning 250 real/fake 18ct Rolex Daytona (it is said that much more were produced). Not going into much detail, for some reason Rolex asked the Jaquet Company to do some (let’s call it function work) on Gold Daytona cases. One day Swiss customs warned Rolex that they found a "strange" stock of presumably fake 18k Rolex Daytona’s, but to confirm that they were fakes they needed expertise from Rolex. The verdict from the Rolex Technical Department was frightening "It took me some time to tell if the watch was real or fake" said the Rolex expert. No other comment. So Rolex recently decided to buy Beyeler dial company and the other companies to avoid this situation again (fake Rolex created with real Rolex parts). Now that Beyeler works only for Rolex, they deliver finished products only to Rolex. "Real" Swiss Fakes: Nov 3, 2008 - 17:31 Counterfeit watchmakers sent to jail Watch-movement maker Jean-Pierre Jaquet will spend four and a half years in prison for his role in a counterfeiting scheme that rocked the Swiss timepiece industry. A court in the western city of Neuchâtel announced on Monday that Jaquet and two others were guilty of aggravated robbery, handling of stolen goods and forgery as part of a fake watch scheme. Fifteen people in total were implicated in the "Ulysses Affair" which began in 2003 when police raided Jaquet's firm in La Chaux-de-Fonds looking for evidence of a plot that also involved gold heists and stolen Rolex casings. Two people were acquitted. The court also ordered Jaquet to pay SFr750,000 ($643,940) in restitution. Others involved in the crime received prison terms ranging from three to nine and a half years. Some will pay fines instead. When news of the scandal broke five years ago watchmakers in Switzerland were outraged. Nicolas Hayek, president of the world's leading watchmaker, Swatch Group, remarked at the time: "It's like a bunch of cardinals getting together and robbing the Vatican bank." Rolex USA Can Service 30XX. Can service 1520/1570 depending on parts. Will not service 1530/1560. Rolex UK Can Service 1530/1560 depending on parts. Will have Rolex UK only warranty. Will not service 1030/1080. Rolex UK will no longer service 5508/5510 Submariners...no case parts. Rolex Geneva Can service 1520/1570 depending on parts. Can service 1580. Will not service 1530/1560 No RSC will work on Valjoux 72 movements because the Swatch group refuses to supply movement parts. RSC will work on 1665. 1560-1580 dials have feet at 6 and 11:30 3035 and 3135 dials have feet at 2:30 and 7:30 CRS stands for Charles René Spillmann...established in La Chaux de Fonds (CH) at the begining of last century and made cases and buckles for Rolex and other brands. CRS still exists under another name. H Stern dials...the family behind Cadrans Stern did buy PP in the 1930's but they decided a few years later to dispose of their dial business. So the company that made the COMEX & Rail Dials was no longer related to PP. Stern remained in the dial business until the 1980s, when they sold the company to another dial maker. Stern dials are easily distinguished by the 5 pointed star on the back of the dial (Stern is German for 'star'). Facts: Not everyone will stare at your Rolex with envy. (I'd worry more about spontanious human combustion) Q...What is the retail mark up on a Rolex? A...43% Rolex watch: It takes a year to make one. Rolex buyer: There is one born every minute.

"If you speak with him again, please see if he will give you the name of the parts supply house where he purchased them & their part number." I get them from Startime in Houston TX. They are called 'pressure pins' and refills come in packs of 10 in various sizes...10mm, 12mm, 18mm etc. For example a 'refill' bag of 10 sets 22mm long in 1.0mm diameter is: TFC-Pin22 This is for 10 tubes and 20 rivets in 1.0mm diameter. They also come in 1.2mm. This is also the part needed to repair a missing or damaged rivet in rolex etc clasps where they permanently attach to the bracelet. http://store.startimesupply.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=1&Category_Code=1E_bands_Pins-w_Tubes&Product_Code=

"Diz- The dial is from NP, a seller on the bay. (there are a series of numbers after the "np" but can't remember them)." http://stores.ebay.com/Natalies-Passion?_trksid=p4340.l2563

"1570 is correct for the 5513" Some 5512/5513 trivia: The 5512 and 5513 have the exact same case/dial/depth rating specs with case reference number and dial printing being the only differences. All 1500 series movements derived from the 1530 base movement. The 1530 was made before the 1520...1530 around 1957, 1520 around 1963. The 1530 was the replacement for the 1030, introduced around 1950. The 5512 used the 1530 or 1570. The 1530 and 1570 were chronometer rated with Breguet hairsprings. The 1530 was no hack, the 1570 could be hack or no hack...the 1570 came out around 1965. Later 5513 used 17 or 26 jewel 1520 but the early models had a 1530. The 1520 could be hack or no hack. The 1520 was not chronometer rated and used a flat hairspring, different escape wheel etc than the 1570. The 1530 ran at 18000 bph and the 1520/1570 ran at 19800 bph. If you see a 1560 in something, it is very similar to the 1530 with Breguet hairspring and runs at 18000 bph. The intro date is listed as 1965 but there is a lot of debate about it because the 1565 date movement came out around 1959 and the 1565 GMT around 1962. The 1560 could have been a replacement for the 18000 bph 1530. "a rolex movement is awesome and all but whats wrong with a slow beat eta? usually 1/10th the price" Very good advice imho.

"First, instead of crystals that press down over the rehaut to be held in by a retaining ring, these have press in plastic crystals with plastic gaskets." I have seen these before...they use cases made for MG or sapphire crystals and install flat side acrylic crystals with plastic gaskets. The plastic gaskets are used so they can use acrylic crystals that are close to the same OD as the MG/sapphire crystals intended for this case in order to allow room for the bezel insert. Without using a plastic gasket, the acrylic crystal would be too big in diameter to allow the bezel insert to fit down over the crystal. "Frankly, it looks to me like they just sourced some parts and cobbled these things together to trade on their name." It is a quick and dirty substitute for the proper type of case. Otoh, the case will still be Ok to use with a gasket and sapphire crystal to make a modern type watch and the spring wire bezel gives very little trouble. Many of these cases accept 31.4mm OD gaskets with 30.5mm crystals. Sapphire crystals and gaskets this size are used in many replicas.

"Also, & more importantly, the only difference between the case that comes with a $50 Canal Street rep & 1 of Phong's or NDT's $1,500 cases are the dimensions. The quality of steel is the same, the construction, in most cases, is done in the same factories that produce the cheap stuff &, from my experience, there is no more QC involved in making the $1,500 case than there is for the $50 rep. The only difference that I can see are the dimensions & the story that accompanies the item from the seller." The statement above should be remembered by everyone in this wacky hobby. My 'detailed' replicas are not nearly as good as what Stilty, Freddy, TJGR, JMB, Dizzy, LHOOQ, Nanuq etc, etc have for three reasons: 1...I can not afford it (#1 reason by far!). 2...The 85% or 90% accurate replica is good enough for me. 3...I do not know any watch snobs who can tell the difference...and I wear long sleeves a lot. Really four reasons if you count that I am just not as good at it as the other guys. But I have learned a few things: 1...Spend your $$ on things that can be seen from the outside of the watch, no one can see the insides. Same rule can be applied to women. 2...Go with actual 'swiss made' movements if possible (a couple exceptions that come to mind are Seagull ST19 and 'freshened' A7750). 3...Try to at least make the watch water resistant for everyday wear...rain, washing hands etc. 4...Skip using genuine rolex movements (I learned this the hard way). Why? A...They cost too much. B...No parts. C...In the real world, a rolex powered replica is not 'worth' much more than an eta powered replica, especially to an 'outsider'. 'outsider' = average Gomer 'swiss replica' buyer. D...The best compliment I ever got on a watch was "Hey, that's a nice fake!" It was my best genuine watch. E...If you can get by with an eta, use an eta. exceptions: a...Do not cut dial feet off a high $$ genuine dial to put on an eta imho. b...Using a Val 72/7733 etc from a 'no name' watch in a Daytona or Monte Carlo replica is Ok by me. After all, an eta is 'justasgood'.

The watch in your pic looks to be a little bit too thick (maybe because of the crystal), and there is the outer dial marker problem. The outer marker position is not perfectly accurate to original but one thing it has going for it is you are less likely to scratch the luminous material off when R/R the movement. Many genuine 1655 have chipped outer markers because they are so close to the case. Here are some figures on a genuine (1971/72) 1655 from a post I put on TRC in November 2006. I know you can not tell how close the watch really is until it arrives but here are the measurements for when it does: The genuine watch case is 38.25mm wide measured from the underside between the 8 and 20 hour marks on the bezel. Bezel OD is 37.95mm (probably closer to 38mm when new). The bezel is a bit wider than the case on the genuine watch on the 9 o'clock side. The bezel and case are even on the genuine watch at 4 and 8. The genuine watch is 26.25mm wide across the lugs at the center of the springbar holes measured from the underside. Overall thickness is 13.4mm with a used crystal and has a 6.0mm crown. The genuine watch has a silver date wheel with black letters and a 'no dot' sweep second hand. Centers of the springbar holes are 5.7mm from the mid case on the genuine watch (measured from where the lug and rounded case band merge together). Same springbars as a submariner. note: This watch has been worn a lot but not polished and the crystal looks good but I have polished it a couple times for the owner over the years. I doubt the polishing removed more than a few .00 mm. The original owner priced it to me for $750 years ago and I did not snatch it up. He will not sell it now and he has a goofball kid who will pawn it for $200 (or less) the day after he drops under the radar.

The submariner springbar tube is about 2.0mm but the end plugs (pins) are about 1.2mm (maybe a little over) so you usually need holes in the lugs to be about 1.3mm. If you go only 1.25mm or so, the springbars can bind up in the holes because there is not enough clearance to allow for variations in alignment etc. Go much bigger than 1.4mm and you might remove too much metal from the lugs. A #55 number bit is a good size (about 1.32mm). http://bobmay.astronomy.net/misc/drillchart.htm Holes in lugs that are deeply slanted need the most clearance so the holes must be on the bigger side. I drilled out a case a week ago that had a steep slant toward the bottom of the case and I had to go to about 1.4mm. I tried 'high speed' bits and they dulled out in one hole or less (or break) so I went to cobalt bits. One bit has gone through 8 lugs so far (2 cases) and is still sharp. Something else...lug holes are not chamfered on the outside of genuine cases, they get that way from wear and polishing. If you break a bit off in a lug, you can usually knock it out from the inside (between the lugs) if the hole is all the way through to begin with.

"Since nobody is ever going to get a real, functional He Valve in a rep..." I have a no date vintage submariner from 'Paul' at Abay from 6 or 7 years ago and it has a functioning He valve made similar to rolex spec. You can remove the crown, install the caseback, and pump low pressure air into the case through the case tube and the valve opens and air escapes. The problem is the watch is a replica and will leak from the crystal etc way before it could go deep enough to get puffed up with He. I tested it in a Bergeon tester and it went to 30 or 40psi a few times which is about 2 or 3 atm. I have mentioned this watch a few times before and the major problem is when delivered they do not have a proper crystal retaining bezel so one has to be made and installed, then the bezel must be machined to fit the crystal retainer. As delivered, they are not good for light rain. Maybe the He valve is really to let water out.

"I have a 1601 case that came with a 1570 caliber. Is it possible to put a 3035 in it? Do the two have the same physical size and dimensions? Stem height?" I am guessing because the 1601 DJ uses a 'pie pan' dial...there might be a problem because the movement sits higher in the case because of the dial....so a movement of the same dimension with a flat dial (like on a 3035 DJ) probably will not work. If you mounted a 1601 dial to the 3035 somehow, it would probably work but you have to mount a 15000 OPD calendar spacer. I do know this as I have done a few... A 1575 with flat OPD dial will fit in a quick set 15000 etc OPD case. A 3035 with flat OPD dial from 15000 etc will fit in a 1500 etc case. You can remove the date works from a 1575 and leave the calendar spacer in place if you want to use a no date dial to make a 5500 explorer etc using a 1500/15000 case. A 1520/1530/1560/1570 no date movement with flat dial (1016 etc) and no calendar spacer will fit in a 16200 etc case. Sometimes you have to swap case screws. I never mounted a 1570 with flat dial in a 16000 etc case (see the last line below). About 15 years ago, I cut the dial seat about .4mm deeper in a 16200 case and installed a 3035 with a flat painted marker dial. I lowered the sweep second hand a little to clear the crystal by shortening the ss hand tube and it all worked fine. About this time they came out with sapphire crystals made for these conversions. I still have the case and it will probably accept a 1575 with the date works removed, calendar spacer mounted, and a flat dial (1016 etc). Never tried it though.

"I am with you bro, last night I was removing the 1655 gmt hand from the asian movement and the whole gmt wheel came off, I should order an ETA but I was going to switch the movement and try to use a gen date-wheel." I have had quite a bit of experience with the old style eta/GMT conversions with the 24 hour hand geared to the 12 hour hand (non adjustable). Also a lot of experience with early Asian DG 2812/13 etc with non adjustable GMT hand plus later DG 2813 etc with adjustable GMT hand. note: I quickly gave up on Eta 2836 GMT conversions with adjustable hands. Conclusions: 1...Asian GMT (DG 2812/2813 etc) are Ok as long as they are clean and properly lubricated. They are fine for vintage models because of the slower beat rate. 2...Asian GMT with adjustable GMT hands do not cause problems but it is not easy to synchronize the 12 and 24 hour hands because of slack in the 24 hour hand drive. There is usually enough room between the hands to prevent hands from dragging on each other. 3...Eta GMT conversions are fine as long as the incorrect hand stack is not a bother. The hand stack (24H, 12H, M, SS) is correct for earlier GMT/ExpII. 4...Converted Eta 2836 movements give very little trouble except for hand clearance problems. It is a good idea to install taller hour wheel and canon pinion. Sometimes you can get by with the regular second hand if the tube is long enough...if not, you will need a longer ss pinion to match the H wheel and CP. Use a dial washer if needed to prevent 24H wheels/hands from dropping 'out of gear'. 5...Most of the converted eta/GMT had date wheel overlays and they are harder to work with at first but after working on a couple it gets easy as you learn how to work around a screw etc being covered by the smaller ID of the date wheel overlay. 6...You can remove all the 24H 'guts' from an eta 2836 GMT conversion (28800 bph) and swap them into an eta 2846 (21600 bph). 7...A long and troublefree service life always depends on careful assembly, proper lubrication, and cleanliness. +1! on the The Zigmeister dial job.

"On getting the GEN dial....make sure it's for 3035 movement? So it fits in the 16000 case and on top Stilty's adapter ring?" Any dial for a 16000/16200 etc quick set DJ will fit the case...3035 and 3135 dial foot location is the same. +1 for Stilty adapter ring

Quite a few so I will list them in order of 'never wear' to 'might wear'. I'm talkin' genuine here but the same goes for replicas. 1. Panerai sized watches (not panerai in particular), especially on metal bracelets. They are just too big for me to do anything while wearing one other than doze off while watching TV. Started out with a Kienzle Atlantis (UT 6497) 10 years ago. Should have stopped with it. I hung it on the wall. 2. Rolex submariner. Can not get used to seeing one (genuine?/replica?/hommage?) on every other guy I see...it's like Groundhog Day all over again. I can not wear one out of the house without a couple Roche 10. 3. Breitling chronographs. Never liked them with the goofy little screws on the bezel just waiting to get knocked off. I sometimes imagine seeing the screws on sidewalks and restaurant floors...along with assorted submariner bezels. 4. IWC...An Eta is an Eta. Rather have one in a $200 watch. 5. Patek Philippe. Fragile as a baby's breath. Who wants a watch that breaks when you sneeze? Or faaart. note: Replica Pateks are a lot tougher than genuines in my experience. The list could go on... My easiest watch to put up with: 1980's tutone Ebel Classic Wave on a strap...small (33.5mm x 5.0mm), light (30g), quartz (Eta), two hands (count 'em), cheap (I paid $40 for it), no date (it's the year I am always fuzzy on). I carry it in my pocket.

"I worked out that the Clark and Sterkreutz crystals were 0.13mm wider outer diameter than the crystal on the josh 1655 but I would think a decent press should get the bezel on." This might work if the crystal is a little bit loose on the case but if it is tight on the case with no room to squeeze down, it might crack. You could buy three crystals (one to use, two for spares) the same size and then have the bezel machined to fit them properly. I have a 1655 from 'Paul' (Abay etc) and a 116 will not fit but a 127 fits fine. I had to lower the profile by sanding it down a little so it did not look like a top hat. The 'Paul' 1655 case was probably based on a submariner of some sort. I posted the specs of the case on TRC: http://www.replicacollector.com/members/index.php?showtopic=26983 (I was 'Rick' member 43, 11-26-02 until a server meltdown, then 'jimmythree' on TRC)

Another common internet scam...parts swapping: A watch dealer I know has a website with 30 or 40 rolex watches for sale all the time. He sold a like new Prez to a guy and took the credit card info etc on the phone before he sent the watch. He waited until the payment went into his bank account, then sent the watch. About two weeks later the watch came back with a worn out bracelet and a note stating the buyer was contesting the purchase with his cc company because the bracelet was worn out. The cc company took the $$ back from the seller because the buyer returned the same watch according to the case serial number. The seller tried every way he knew to get his $$ back but he could not prove what happened because he had no way to prove the bracelet was not worn out when he sent it.

My first Ducati was a new 1962 250 Monza, next a 1963 250 Scrambler, then a 250 Diana followed by a 450 Scrambler. Still have 1962 and 1963 license tags off a couple of the Ducatis...cracked because of the vibration. I worked after school and weekends and spent every $$ on MC. Last of the breed was a 'fake'...a nos 1985 650 Cagiva Alazurra that I sold to a museum along with a Kenny Roberts edition Yamaha RZ 350 a few years ago (It had 125 miles on it). While I was cleaning out the garage, I sold my 1974 Kawasaki H2 750 (87 actual miles) with full Denco engine, alloy rims. Buchanan Frame Shop stainless spokes, Tony Nicosia handlebars, Magura levers, Denco expansion chambers, Denselube Superchain kit, Denco carbs/K&N filters, needle bearing clutch release, Koni shocks, dual (drilled) front disc kit etc, etc. Bought it new, built it, bought a new leftover 1973 903 Z-1 and never rode the H2 again. It sat in the same spot for 33 years until I sold it. Before Ducatis, I had Allstates...one used-up Mo-Ped, a new 125, and a new 175 'twingle' (made by Steyr-Daimler-Puch). Still have a spare Mo-Ped crankcase/transmission in the garage. After Ducatis, a few 750 Norton Atlas, Kawasaki H2, Honda 750, Z1, etc. Also one new gold and one new black 1976 BMW R90S. Not both at once...the gold one was so bad they gave me the black one in exchange after a couple months, then bought the black one back...it was worse. Then I made up a hot rod Water Buffalo...'77 Suzuki triple with Walt Strader 3 into 1, flat bars, K&N, etc. It was trouble free. Oh yeah, had a couple HD... First was a 1948 Panhead in 1964. Next and last was a 1954 Panhead in 1971. When you own an old HD, you are soon to become a mechanic or a hitch hiker.

"The servicing-repair of the reps is the biggest drawback to this hobby. You end up (like me) with a very beautiful but broken watch that has to be taken almost to "underground" ways to get fixed." You are 100% correct. Otoh...I have seen the same thing happen to genuine rolex and other swiss brand watches in the past 20 years. Long ago in a land far, far away...I used to be a 'rolex guy' and wore genuine rolex watches most of the time. I remember about 20 years ago when I was visiting a friend who worked at a long time rolex AD when a guy came in and asked about having his watch serviced. Back then the AD service price was $360 and a local repair shop would do it for about $150 (because they could get parts from supply houses). When they quoted the $360 figure the man politely said he could not afford it. After he left the AD owner said "Fuok that SOB, before long they will have to crawl through the door and beg us to work on their GD rolex watches." That time is now. So...now I have to go 'underground' to get genuine parts. Since I can work on watches, parts are the main problem so I decided to turn to replicas and here I am. I can fully understand QC problems and repair problems with replicas as QC is mostly a look at the outside and finding a repair guy is about the same hassle as buying 'underground' genuine parts. Since replica quality is 'the luck of the draw', one answer may be going to quartz replicas (still with crown, bezel etc troubles), or giving up replicas all together. Another is to find a reasonable repair guy or learn basic repair skills and do it yourself...while sticking with time and date Etas and easy to replace Asian '21' movements. Outside of that...there is really no solution other than spending a lot of $$.

Here is some random info from an old rolex service manual: Tubes no. 703 are fitted with plastic washer no. 06011. Interchangability...tubes no. 7000, respectively no. 7002, by the tube no. 7030 for as much as the crown no. 700, respectively no.702, be also replaced by the crown no. 703. (??, you can decipher it) Grease slightly the thread of the tube with silicone grease rolex ref. 2909 or grease KT22, rolex ref. 2907. The tubes stand a screwing torque of about 4kg-cm. The latest 'Triplock' crowns are used on rolex: 5512-5513 1680 1655 6263 6265 The latest 'Triplock' crowns are used on tudor: 7016 7021 7031, 7032 7149, 7159, 7169 9401 9411 9420, 9421 9430 (the crowns pictured do not have gaskets on the outside of the case tube...this was all before they came out) I bought some aft/mkt triplock tubes with the outside gasket groove from a supply house a few years ago and they broke off when screwed into cases...replica and genuine. I looked at them just now and they are shorter where they screw into the case compared to oem and oem spec aft/mkt triplock tubes but I can not tell any difference in the threads by eyeballing them...they just bind up and break off in the case. They measure 2.97mm OD and genuine measures 3.0mm so it must be a slightly different thread pitch