automatico

Waiting on two cases from DW since November 26. eBay item number 230540907942

It shows just how much vrf 'rolex bruthas' really care about each other. This 'for sale' post should be accompanied by mood music and the sound of zippers being slowly pulled down.

http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=tree&th=1576433&mid=5430998&rid=0&rev=&reveal=

Also have for 2.25 H/W (probably same part as 2.26)... H/W 2.25 P/N 255.2836.06

For 2824/36 etc...No guarantee on part numbers but here is what I have... Canon Pinion C/P 1.95 P/N 242/2500.101 C/P 2.20 P/N 242/2801.102 C/P 2.45 P/N 242/ETA 2600 C/P 2.70 P/N 00242.2500.04 C/P 2.95 P/N 242/ETA 2758 C/P 3.20 P/N 242/ETA 2503 Hour Wheel H/W 1.01 P/N 250/2600.101 H/W 1.26 P/N 250/2600.102 H/W 1.51 P/N 255/2600.103 H/W 1.76 P/N 255/2600.104 H/W 2.00 P/N 255.2836.05 H/W 2.26 P/N 255/2600 H6

"All phong is going to do is replace bridges and make the 72 look more like a 727." I remember reading somewhere a few years back that the better rolex signed replica bridges were genuine V72 bridges cut down and restamped/replated. This may be the models that fit with no problem. There were a few comments about the bridge being a little thinner than it started out but other than that they were Ok. I just now looked at my Wakmann with V72 and the stamping on the bridge is shallow but it would still show as being ground down and restamped because the jewels would not be as deep in their seats and the bridge would be a little bit thinner. I do not know when it was made (probably 1960's). It has '72' stamped under the balance bridge and Incabloc shock protection with rose plating on the plates and bridges like omega. I know next to nothing about genuine and replica Daytonas and V72 in general...but I do have a V72.

"Auto - You can select a specific post by right-clicking its post number in the upper right-hand corner & selecting the Copy Link Location option in the menu (or similar, depending on your browser)" Thanks. I had the links on the initial post but they were automatically shortened on the final post and would not work. "Great stuff, automatico! Your 1016 Frankenstein posts are required reading for anyone considering a vintage Explorer project. The absence of photos screens out the unserious." Next project will probably be a replica 18k DD case with a Bulova movement and refinished black 'Californication' dial. The dial is a hair too small for the dial seat so I'll have to make a spacer of some sort. I have had it in the project drawer since February 2001 when I cut out a bezel to fit a domed 1016 crystal to it. It will have a date only and no magnifier. "I recently took out the Sea-Gull 2824-alike in my 16234 franken, and swapped in a 2472 plucked from a Rado Horse. Both movements work fine, but the old ETA just has more... character (plus a suitably low beat). I think it's got more heft, too, but I should probably weigh it to be sure. " "I dont really see the point of putting a gen movement into a watch either. They just sit and collect dust while I wear my frankens." That's exactly the way I feel about it. I doubt I will use a rolex movement in another Frankenstein except maybe the DW 1680 case I have on the way. Then again, since the Stilty spacer makes it so easy, I might not use the rolex movement and put a 2846 in the 1680 project and save the 1570/5. I'll put the 1520 out of the '1016' in a 5500 AK case if I can find one because I have a pretty good refinished AK dial. May have to go with an OP no date if I can not find an AK case though as I have a good 1007 case and dial. Too many projects.

"The links don't work, other than that, congrats on the revive" Rats. Birth of a Frankenstein: I made a '1016' out of parts a year and a half ago and here is what it cost (from memory, but close): Parts: 16220 case...$200 iirc (it shows a lot of small scratches and has a little dent in the back but it's just fine because it makes it look more like a genuine 1016) lug holes drilled out for 1016 springbars original case tube and crown that came with case aft/mkt submariner springbars $10 (they have to be shortened and the ends polished) gaskets $10+/- 26 jewel hack 1520 rolex movement (cleaned, new stem, and mainspring...$750 for mvt, $15 for ms, $4 for stem) dial from some forgotten guy in China for about $100 (has SINGER on the back and precise fitting dial feet but it is 100% replica...no lume much at all after 20 minutes in the dark, same as a 30 year old genuine) aft/mkt hands $15 1016 spec (more or less) bezel $35 iirc from the same guy who supplied the dial (rolex 22 spec crystals have thicker sidewall and top than DJ) A hogged out DJ bezel will work but iirc they are smaller OD than a 1016 bezel. GS PA464-64C crystal $10+/- (same as rolex 22 and better than most internet mystery crystals) Total parts $1100 to $1150 Subtract around $650 for using Eta 2846 etc. Bracelet of choice...$20 to $400. Labor more or less: clean/oil mvt $100 machine bezel to fit the crystal $25 drill lug holes $25 put it all together $25 Prices are a guess as I did it myself. Death of a Frankenstein: "Yesterday, I got all revved up and thought I would wear a genuine watch for a few days so I dug out a 14010M Air King to wear (no date to screw with). I looked at it and thought about the rUSA 'NP-FU' policy and put it away. Next, I dug out my Frankenstein 1520 powered '1016'...I looked at it, thought about 'NP-FU' and put it back in the drawer. So I put on a genuine pawn shop Movado Museum that I paid $40 for and awaaay I went." A couple days ago I took the 1520 out of the F-stein 1016 and may put an eta 2846 or something in it. I do not want to wear any watch with a genuine 'np-fu' rolex movement in it. Imho, replicas can be seen as one of three types... (1) 100% Asian made with '21 jewel' or 'etaclone' movement. (2) Asian case, dial, bracelet, hands etc and swiss made (usually eta) movement. (3) Frankensteins...but I will no longer wear one with a genuine rolex movement in it.

Birth of a Frankenstein: http://www.rwgforum....__gopid__857628 See post number 5. Death of a Frankenstein: http://www.rwgforum....an/page__st__20 See post number 25. Rebirth of a Frankenstein: Snow for the past two days...White Christmas! Today was more snow so I stuck an eta 2846 in the 16220 case. Here is what it took: 1...Cut the dial feet off the dial. 2...Dig out one of Stilty's Super! Spacers. I call them Super! because they work. 3...Test fit the spacer in the case and to the movement...it needed about 5 minutes of sanding with 1000 sandpaper to make it fit in the case without sticking. If it gets stuck you will have to remove the bezel and crystal and push the dial/mvt out from the front. 4...File a couple shallow grooves in the spacer so the case clamps could pass over the spacer and down into the groove in the case...about 15 minutes of filing and trial fitting. 5...Mount the spacer to the movement with the case clamp screws only (you can not get the mvt in the case with the clamps on it). 6...I stuck 3 dial dots on top of the spacer to hold the dial in place while putting it in the case (the clamps will hold it after it is installed but it might move and the 12 would be off center). 7...Mounted the hands. 8...Put the movement/dial/spacer in the case, centered the stem, removed the case screws one at a time and put the clamps on. 9...Cut the stem to fit. 10...Cleaned the dust off the movement etc and screwed the caseback on. Notes: 1...Had to use the genuine case because the dial was made to fit a genuine case and I did not have a replica case handy that the dial would fit. Besides, the 16200 case is water tight. 2...I wanted to use the Stilty Super! Spacer. 3...I did not change or cut the set bridge so it would have only one notch from winding position to setting position because I did not want to fool with it. You can probably use an eta 2801 set bridge, I never tried it. It is less of a Frankenstein now but I do not have to worry about the genuine relax movement going $outh. Always remember the relax motto: NP-FU!

CzechMate: I sent you a message. "Yesterday, I got all revved up and thought I would wear a genuine watch for a few days so I dug out a 14010M Air King to wear (no date to screw with). I looked at it and thought about the rUSA 'NP-FU' policy and put it away. Next, I dug out my Frankenstein 1520 powered '1016'...I looked at it, thought about 'NP-FU' and put it back in the drawer. So I put on a genuine pawn shop Movado Museum that I paid $40 for and awaaay I went." Update: A couple days ago I took the 1520 out of the F-stein 1016 and may put an eta 2846 or something in it. I do not want to wear any watch with a genuine 'np-fu' rolex movement in it. Imho, replicas can be seen as one of three types... (1) 100% Asian made with '21 jewel' or 'etaclone' movement. (2) Asian case, dial, bracelet, hands etc and swiss made (usually eta) movement. (3) Frankensteins...but I will no longer wear one with a genuine rolex movement in it. I have a DW 1680 case coming for a 1570/75 with genuine 1680 dial but I will not wear it if I put it together. Last time I was in a relax AD was 10-1-96 when I bought a steel Daytona to flip. I wore genuine 'r' brand watches part time for 35+ years. They finally made me mad enough to quit.

Hour and minute hands...hold them in place using a sharpened round toothpick in the center hole and sand or brush away from center. Place a thin sheet of paper between any hard surface and the hand to prevent scratching the underside of the hand and help hold the hand in place. Sweep second and sub second hands...place the hand tube in one of the small holes in a bench anvil covered with a sheet of thin watch paper etc. Wrap sandpaper around a toothpick etc if needed when sanding. Be careful with luminous filling. Wipe the hands clean with a small square of soft chamios. Simichrome paste etc on chamios or Q-tip is good for polishing hands. On rusty steel hands...you can use a blunted toothpick or sliver of pegwood and Simichrome polish etc to remove rust. Pitting on steel hands is hard to cover so sanding is usually the best option. You can also fill pitts with paint and sand after each coat until they look Ok. If hands are 'V' shaped in cross section...be careful not to apply too much force as they can flatten out or curl up. Place hands on a pointed toothpick to hold them when applying luminous material. Stick the toothpick in an anvil to dry. Slow dry luminous material as heat drying may cause cracking. Make sure hands are straight and will fit and clear each other/dial/markers/crystal on the watch before applying luminous material. If you need to slightly raise or lower a hand after mounting it...lower it by either using a hand pusher/soft tweezers etc or blunted toothpick near the hub on the side that needs lowering. You can also put a slight bend in the hand next to the hub with the toothpick. You can tilt the hand on the post with a pen type hand press etc or tweezers. You can lift or slightly bend a hand up with a U shaped piece of paper...cradle the hand close to the post if it has luminous material or it might crack or pop out. If you mount an hour hand or subdial hand too low to get under it with hand pullers etc...loosen the dial screws and slightly pry/lift the dial away from the movement (be careful of calendar wheels etc). Try to put a small sheet of notched watch paper between the dial and hand if possible to prevent scratching the dial. Lay a square of Saran Wrap etc over the dial/hands to contain flying hands. Don't get excited.

"I have to agree with some of the others regarding what is passed off as "journalism". Seems like anyone with access to the web and the ability type (even poorly) self proclaims their expertise and pours out pointless drivel that is often not researched and incorrect. Very sad. The internet is an amazing medium and I often think about how it used to be before it was around but it is also very enabling for those that would otherwise remain silent in their ignorance." I agree 100%. The flotsam and jetsam on the huffington post is an example of what passes for 'journalism' today...boring pablum written by third rate writers with no imagination and no common sense. If anyone ventures to ask "Why is this happening?", the simple answer is "Because the bar has been lowered and this is today's norm." It is universal and not just in 'journalism'. For example... How many high school graduates (and many college grads) can not make change for a dollar by counting up from the base? The charge is $2.33. The customer hands the kid $3. The kid can not give the change back without a prompt from the cash register. If you hand the kid $3 bucks and 3 pennies...they are up deep sheet creek without a paddle. If the kid was handing out their own change instead of $$ that belonged to the boss, they would have to get smart quick or go broke. But nooo...the kid lives on Dad's dollar until he finally graduates from college (at age 32) or drops out and winds up at a job that requires a paper hat as part of their uniform. Reality is a harsh mistress.

"get the moonwatch especially if u want to wear daily, its one of the classics, i got one myself." The Omega Speedy is a great watch all right. I had a seldom worn, never worked on 'pre moon' years ago, back when they sold for $250 or less. Bought a nib speedy moon with sapphire caseback on leather/deployant for $350 in August 1996 from a watch trader but sold it right away (should have kept them). A friend still has a pre moon he paid $40 for way back when. Chronographs used to be cheap... Had a half dozen nib ss and tutone automatic speedys with Eta 2894 modular chronograph movement...also known as the SOS (stack of sh*t) in the late 1990's. Back then they went for $500 in ss and about $750 in tutone (ss/18k bezel and center links...some bracelets marked swiss made, some marked Hong Kong). Bought them from a fellow (now a famous watchguy) who worked for SMH back then (now swatch). They were junk imho...you ever see under the dial of one? Ask around. Bought 20 nib Hamilton 7750 'Khaki' cronos about the same time...they were $200 to $250 each. Bought them from the former Chairman/CEO of SMH USA (now rip). Sold the last one a couple years ago. Otoh, some things to consider before 'going genuine': Buying a genuine watch is just the first step, you have other considerations... 1...Depreciation. 2...Mind numbing service and parts costs. 3...They are just as fragile as replicas...sometimes worse. 4...If you lose the watch, you lose a wad of $$. 5...Very few swiss watch companies sell parts even if you know a friendly repair guy who can fix it (see #2). If I listed all the genuine watches I have owned...half the members would say I was lying and the other half would say I am crazy. I would go with crazy. If I listed all the trouble I have had with genuine watches... It would be a long list. Out of all the genuine famous brand swissjunk I have owned over the years, just about the only models I am not afraid to wear today are the quartz TAG/Heuer dive models. Not much of a watch prestige wise but very rugged and fairly thin compared to mechanical swissjunk. Why TAG/H? 1...Cheap, never paid more than $250 for one (a nib lady model a while back) while men's styles are usually around $150 used (pawn shops are full of 'em...bought two like new WK1112-0 for $150 each a while back). Bought a box of four used lady models for $75 a couple years ago...made $100 on the only one I sold so the rest are free. 2...Crowns are around $25 and tubes are $10/$12 (quartz crowns/tubes last from now on anyway). 3...Hands are $15 a set. 3...New Eta mvts are about $20. 4...Sapphire crystals are around $15. Btw...TAG/H service aka ProTime does not sell parts, I just know a guy who knows a guy. I wear a tutone WK1120 from 1998 on a silicon strap most of the time (paid $100 with the bracelet). I'm not shilling for TAG/H, it's just one of the few swiss brands I can put up with.

It looks pretty good to me but I am not much of a 'bezel watch' guy so I am not boned up on detail differences between genuine and aft/mkt cases. What I can do is put this watch in perspective... Since this case is $500, what else is available for $500? Not much. Maybe another 'oem spec' case from another vendor with different flaws, some maybe worse. Maybe a case made for an eta that could be modified to work with a 1570/75. Then you usually have the non oem style crystal retaining system and a lot of other troubles to contend with...the oem spec dial being too small, having to machine the case for the movement screws or case clamps etc, etc. Maybe you could go with a 1680 rather than the 'dweller and maybe have fewer 'flaws' but not have the gas valve. Then again, the gas escape valve is the one feature that makes the 'dweller very special. How about the 'tells' that mark the 'dweller as a replica? First off, most people will never know the difference (including me) and if I had this particular $500 case and a 1570/75 with a good dial...I would be happy. After all, how close to a 1970's 'dweller case is a genuine rolex replacement 'dweller case from the 1990's? Maybe this 'dweller case looks like some of the genuine replacement cases. Who knows for sure? Not me of course. As for the infamous replicator's 'one step forward, two steps back' routine when they make cases... Business as usual imho. How else can they keep selling the same thing over and over? Without a doubt, they could get it right on the first try if they wanted to. I guar-an-damn-tee I could get it right if I had the equipment they have. If you posted pictures of a genuine 'dweller' case, you would probably still get comments on what is wrong with it...more on VRF and other 'rolexpert' forums than here I am willing to bet. That's just the way it is. I have seen 'rolexperts' at watch shows point out flaws with various original rolex watches that have never been anywhere other than the AD's showroom and a dresser drawer. What could I say...they were 'experts', not me. What I am getting at is this...I like the case and a few finishing details should bring it up to a high percentage of original in appearance. I like it!

"At $100, there's Narikaa's 21J Explorer: Standard classic Datejust rep with a great dial for the price. Drill lugholes for a superb 1016 on a budget." Drilling lug holes... I have had some good luck and a lot of bad luck drilling lug holes all the way through lugs in cases that came with blind lug holes. I have had good luck by: 1...Installing tight fitting springbars in both ends of the case. 2...Use the springbars for a guide to start the holes on the outside of the lugs. If you start the holes lined up with the springbars, chances are it will turn out Ok. Remove the springbars after the holes are deep enough to guide the drill bit. 3...I use a very short bit in a Foredom FlexShaft cable drive hand tool running at slow speed to start the holes. You can start the holes without the bit creeping if you angle the drill bit a little so it does not enter the lug at an angle. Just after the bit starts to cut...change the angle to match the springbar. 4...I usually finish drilling the holes in a small drill press or milling machine but mounting the case in a soft jaw vise and drilling with a small electric drill, Dremel etc will work Ok too...usually. Sometimes lubricant helps the drill bit cut and sometimes it just makes the bit get hot and turn blue. I cut the first hole smaller than the finish hole in DJ etc and make 2 or 3 cuts on submariner springbar holes. Sometimes one drill bit will do all 4 holes and sometines it takes 3 or 4 drill bits to cut 4 holes. There are no guarantees on fools' errands. I know this from experience.

"Hahahaha! What a great read! I really hope you'll acquire more junk to fix and share the experience.." "LOL, you have a great sense of humor,thanks for the read." "Great stuff. Would have gone into the bin after round 2 in my hands." Thank you all! Most of what I own is like this. I would take a picture of all my junk but I don't have a wide angle lens. "I asked around about "Jacking Off" but I got a smack in the mouth !!" 'jack off'... The canon pinion is just one tube (the minute wheel/hub) placed over another tube and friction is provided by the dimple/crimp in the outer tube because the dimple creates an interference fit over the inner tube. As the CP dimple wears down, the hands will get easier and easier to set until there is not enough friction left to move the hands and the watch will run but the hour and minute hands stay still. The second hand still moves as normal. If you put a crimp in the orginal location, all is well and it will function as intended. There is a narrow 'waist' in the inner tube where the dimple rubs so you need to restore the dimple in the same spot. If you make crimp on the CP (minute hand tube) in the wrong place...it can fail to keep the CP in place because the dimple will not be in the 'waist' and the CP can lift off, aka 'jack off' the inner tube when setting the time. "Seems you are over-qualified for this time piece." One aquires the skill to work on junk by working on fine swiss watches...

This is the story of an average 'cheapo' replica...an all steel replica omeeega seamaster. First off, it came from NYC last week and the fellow who sent it paid $30 for it and sold it to a friend for $40 delivered. I paid $45 for it because I just had to have it. What is it exactly? A black dial Seamaster with steel screwback case and screw down crown. The release valve at 10 o'clock will unscrew and screw down but it does not function as a release valve. The crown has two O rings...one just inside the case tube and one in the crown cap. The crown screws down Ok...sorta. The caseback is hard to turn and very hard to get started straight. It has an O ring gasket...and 007 with a pistol on the back (looks like a BB gun). Why no pictures? 1...I do not like to take pictures. 2...This watch is not worth a bunch of pictures. 3...The story is Ok without pictures. Take your pick (pun!). note: The crown would not screw all the way down because it hit the crown guards on the back side. The fix was to remove the crown and hog out some space around the crown guards with a cutoff wheel and cratex...about 10 minutes. The dial is not too hot with a greenish tint to the lume and white lume on the hands and pearl dot. Funny thing is the dial was still glowing this am after 7 hours in the dark...not very bright but still glowing. The hands were a little brighter than the markers. The pearl dot fell out of the bezel insert during all the work so I put a gob of white paint in its place. No glow but it looks Ok. The bracelet is the average seamaster style with pushpins holding the removable links together and also holding the end links to the bracelet. note: The bracelet was attached to the case with skinny 1.5mm brass springbars. Why little skinny springbars? 1...Cheap. 2...Easy to bend/cram into place. The bottoms of the hoods did not fit the contour of the case and had to be bent to conform to the case. Both hoods had to be ground on the sides so they would slip between the lugs. They were a very tight fit to start with. The hoods look like SEL from the top but when turned over they are stamped out of sheet metal with the bracelet soldered to the hoods for the 'SEL' effect. Very crafty...it's cheap, looks Ok from the top, and works Ok. The clasp is a stamped affair much like what you fine on Citizens etc with a rectangular pushbutton on the left side looking at it on the left wrist. Not twin pushbuttons like original. The engine is the tried and true Seagull ST16 with the 'magic lever' autowinder. This example was tired and untrue. At first it was losing about 2 hours a day. I figured the balance assembly was defective so I swapped it out with another one and set the watch at 225pm. I did not drag the timing machine out because...well, it's a replica after all and I thught I had nailed the trouble. Guess what? Three hours later it was still running just fine (sweep second hand moving right along...jumping a bit, but still moving...while the hands still showed 225pm! What the hell's a matter now? Canon pinion lost its traction. The resistance I felt while setting the hands was all in the case tube gasket. That's just great! What to do? Remove the movement, hands, dial, calendar plate, a couple cogs (wheels to non Southern guys), and remove the canon pinion. How? With a set of rusty trusty tweezers...the CP puller is in a cabinet with the timing machine. Then what? I took a few steps to another cabinet and got my shiny $Bergeon$ CP tightener p/n 2803. I know you are all impressed by my Bergeon tool so how come I got it out and left the timing machine and CP puller on the shelf? Answer...I could not find my La Crosse nail clippers. Nail clippers? Ask around. Anyway...I gave the CP a pinch (being very careful to crimp it in the right place), crammed a little grease in it and stuck it back on. How did it work? Fine and dandy. note: If you crimp the CP in the wrong place, it will 'jack off'. Say what? Ask around. note: One dial screw was broken off in the movement plate and there was a gob of Gorilla Snot smeared around the dial foot and movement plate. I unscrewed the broken screw with a small screwdriver and replaced the screw...about 5 minutes. The Gorilla Snot is somewhere on my bench waiting for a ride out of here on the next job. Next, I put the cogs etc back on, mounted the calendar plate, and stuck the 'Flying U' spring (commonly known as the 'FU spring') back through the slot in the calendar plate. Oh yeah, I oiled what I could get to just for grins. Why 'FU' spring and not 'FV' etc? Because it is U shaped and U like in UFO when it flys away. Then what? I stuck the movement in the case, inserted the crown/stem, and removed the winding rotor, autowind works, and 'wishbone' spring. Wishbone spring = magic lever/pawls. Sometimes when you remove the a/w assembly, stuff shoots everywhere. Not this time. Why not? Because I held tension on the mainspring barrel by just barely turning the crown to wind the watch, taking power off the a/w works. Next, I removed the sweep second tension spring and bent it a little to make more drag on the SS pinion. Note: The tension spring screw was loose besides the tension spring not having enough tension. I stuck the wishbone to the cam with watch grease and put it all together ONE LAST TIME. (until the next time) How does it run? In 4 hours it is within 5 seconds of when I set it. What do I think about the watch in general? It's still a piece of damn junk.

"All parts interchangeable with genuine" and "made from non-dissected sample" are two phrases that just don't go together. Imho, without taking a genuine watch apart for measurements, there might be a few words added to the description... "All parts interchangeable with genuine custom made parts." Just one RCH plus/minus can mean the difference between fit and no fit. Anyone know what RCH is? hint: One of the smallest measurements known to man.

"Is it possible for to get a dial without any branding that fits the Explorer I ETA (2824 movement) rep, and get a non-branded Crown?" I bought a few 5.3mm and 6.0mm unsigned rolex spec screwdown crowns from Jules Borel Co a few years ago and they came in a Bestfit package and were very high quality. Iirc they were around $10 or $12 each. I have seen a few homemade dial jobs that looked real good. All you need to do is remove a replica submariner etc dial, push the applied hour markers off from the back side, sand the dial smooth, paint it with an airbrush using flat black etc paint and reapply the markers. Start with 1000 paper and finish with 1200 or 1500. You can also remove the dial paint with paint remover and skip all the sanding except for maybe a final polishing with 1200/1500. A dial without applied markers is a lot easier. I have some submariner replicas from about 7 years ago with Seagull ST16 movements and ratty printing on the dials and I changed a few over to Mickey Mouse dials that turned out real good. I sanded the dials down to about half original thickness after removing the markers using 600 wet or dry sandpaper placed on a sheet of glass under running water, then glued the MM dial over it with epoxy. The cases were pretty good...all steel with lug holes and a 60 click bezel. I saw one I stuck together about 3 years ago last week and it was still running fine. The MM dials do not have a date so I removed the date works from the ST16. Also made one using a (Warner Bros) Wylie E. Coyote dial with a date window. WEC is down at the bottom of the dial 'underwater' with a snorkle and bubbles rising to the top of the dial. The steel buckle is signed ACME. WEC looks worried as usual.

"is the seller raffles-time that sells DW cases?" http://cgi.ebay.com/DIY-CASE-SET-VALJOUX-1570-1560-movement-/230540907942?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35ad4f15a6

"Would you, if you could, take this watch to the next step, which would be a genuine 1570 movement, Dial and hands? Or some combination of the above such as 1570 movement, very good re-finished dial Clark hands for instance. Or would you leave it as is, possibly save up your coins, sell the watch and find a reasonable genuine 1680? " I have a genuine non hack 1570 and fair submariner dial from a rotted out 1680 and have ordered a '1680' case. I will tell how it goes. http://cgi.ebay.com/DIY-CASE-SET-VALJOUX-1570-1560-movement-/230540907942?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35ad4f15a6 "id say forget the movement. i was in a similar quandary with my 5513, but the price of the gen movement is around $1300-$1600. add that to the cost of the other gen parts and im in over the used asking price for a gen 5513 which has a gen case (cant source separately) and a gen bracelet. some watches it may be worth it, such as the double red if you get a gen dial and everything else. but for the 5513 and 1680, its a tough call, you need to be on the look out for bargains to make it worth it." Very good advice imho. If I was going to make up a submariner, I would go for a 5513 or 5512...no date wheel color/mounting hassles...use a 2846, not a 1520/1570...use a yuki etc dial...go with genuine crown and genuine spec aft/mkt case tube. As for saving up for a genuine 1680...I would not consider one at today's insane prices because I have owned them for around $700 in the past. I see the 1680 as a $1000 watch and if one comes along for $1k, I'll snatch it up to go with my $800 1675.

From my experience, only two crystals will work in F520117 etc noob cases: 1...the exact same crystal as comes in the watch 2...a straight side sapphire or MG 2.0 x 29.0mm that usually will not have the correct bevel on top and leaves a gap between the bezel insert and crystal I will always wonder why the genuis who designed the F520117 did not make it work with an oem crystal. noob = 29.0mm base where if fits into the gasket x 30.5mm at the top x 2.0mm thick oem = 29.5mm base x 30.5mm top x 2.0mm thick Both have the date magnifier centered 9mm from the dial center. Not much way to make an oem spec crystal work on a noob spec case because the noob uses an 'L type' gasket with the crystal pressed into the gasket and the oem used a 'band type' gasket compressed over the case neck and crystal by an inner bezel. I never experimented with crystals on a noob F520117 case because the bezel is so hard to get off/on without ruining the bezel. I got 2 'noob' sapphire crystals from sneed12 and they were the exact crystals needed for the F520117 case.

"The moral is that while some gens do service their older watches, actually getting the watch repaired is more of a rep-like experience." You hit the nail on ther head. Horrible service and No Parts For You! is exactly why I am a fan of replicas. Yesterday, I got all revved up and thought I would wear a genuine watch for a few days so I dug out a 14010M Air King to wear (no date to screw with). I looked at it and thought about the rUSA 'NP-FU' policy and put it away. Next, I dug out my Frankenstein 1520 powered '1016'...I looked at it, thought about 'NP-FU' and put it back in the drawer. So I put on a genuine pawn shop Movado Museum that I paid $40 for and awaaay I went. The quartz MoMu is one of my all time favorite watches. Why? No whack! whack! whack! quartz second hand. Good contrast between dial and hands. Always on time (more or less). No date to screw with. Sapphire crystal. Light and thin. EZ to repair! Reliable! Cheap! My 'swiss' Movado... At the bottom of the dial it says SWISS MOVADO QUARTZ. Inside the caseback it says CHINA. The bracelet has CHINA stamped on the clasp. The $20 eta movement smiling back at you says SWISS MADE. Therefore making it your average 'swiss' watch.

I believe if the demand for vintage Big R parts stays high that replica parts will sooner or later reach the same level of quality as genuine...at a fraction of the price of course. One exception being tritium on vintage dials. These parts will also wind up on eBay, TZ, VRF etc presented as genuine and priced accordingly as some do already, they only require the 'appropriate prose' (aka lies) to make the 'discovery' seem plausible. As time goes by, the fine line between genuine parts and high grade replica parts will fade to zero. For proof of this advance, look at the changes in quality in the past 5 years. After all...genuine R 'service' dials, hands, bezels etc are 'replicas' too and I would not doubt the Big R has some of their stuff made in China/Taiwan/Vietnam etc. Something else...the average vintagerolexfreak would 'lick 13 for a dozen' if they could get Yuki etc quality dial refinishing on their genuine dial plate. They just can not get by the notion that the singer/beyeler signed dial blank is not genuine. High quality replica replacement parts is a 'management decision' not an accident. If a vendor asks for absolute accuracy and quality, they can get it fron China/Taiwan/Vn as well as switzerland. Put me down for a 12 pack of 9315 bracelets for about $85 a whack. !! Check eBay item 270649676389 Then check where it came from.

"Why would you think a serviced movement would die after a month? Even if it did, most watchmakers stand behind their work." That's a good point. I do my own work and here is what I have seen: Most swiss eta watches are Ok as long as the movement is fairly fresh. When they do stop running, they are usually worth repairing. If an Asian DG/CH/Sea Gull will run for 3 months...they will usually run for 2 or 3 years. They have a lot of 'crib death' though. The DG/CH Miyota clones are a PAIN to work on. Sea Gull ST16 is not as bad. Seagull ST6D is easy because they are made in the 'traditional' manner...the autowind assembly screws onto the base movement and the date works are simple. I do not work on chronographs so this has nothing to do with chronographs. Mechanical chronographs = too much junk crammed in too little space imho. When a movement dies early, the first thing to look for is any sign of water in the case. Sometimes it will not show on the dial or crystal but on the stem and winding/setting parts. If it drowns once it will drown again so find the leak or keep it dry. Many Asian movement watches come new with what I call the 'DY DY' Disease (pronounced die die). 'DY DY' = D-irt-Y and D-r-Y. The easiest cure for a dead Asian movement is a replacement but who knows if the replacement is any good? If you have an Asian movement cleaned, it will cost too much but it will usually run for 3 to 5 years...or until it gets dropped or drowned. You can swap an Asian movement out for a Swiss eta but unless the Asian movement is an 'etaclone' you will need to do quite a bit of extra work...sometimes involving glue, broaches, spacers, date wheels, and a Quaalude or two. Quaalude! Now that's a Blast from the Past... Last one I saw was in the late 1980's and it had been made in a 38 caliber bullet mold.