automatico

"This has probably been answered before but could not find it. Anyways my watches tend to sit unused. Ive noticed a few of them need a lite tap to get started.. This is after crown is wound to full power reserve. Is this normal?" Normal? Yes and no. If it is a little bit 'out of beat' the balance will sometimes not self start on windup but will usually take off if you twist the watch back and forth a few times to get the balance wheel (not the winding rotor) in motion. You can also set the time ahead slowly a few minutes after winding the watch if it will not self start as this will usually start it running. If you have to shake it like it is on fire or remove the caseback and start the balance wheel moving with a tool of some sort...you have problems. "Damn, I got 5 or so of these watches like that. 4 asian eta's and one seagull. What members repair reps? How much does a rep cost to service?" "4 asian eta's"...asianetas may be worth cleaning/oiling depending on the cost. Best call is to replace DOA asianetas with a swissetas if the watches are keepers..but then you still have the problems that come with worn or dirty movements if the swisseta is not new. Money is better spent to c/o swissetas than asianetas imho. I am referring to 2824/36 asianetas, I do not know anything about asianeta 2892 clones. "one seagull"...the seagull ST16 is a pretty good movement but not really worth paying for c/o imho, ST6 is even less of a c/o candndate. CH/DG (Miyota clones) are not worth c/o either, replacement is usually a better option. I like the Seagull ST16 a lot better than CH/DG (Miyota clones) because of the more efficient Seiko type 'magic lever' winding system. I never had a CH/DG with much running reserve...sometimes have to 'shake 'em up' in the evening to make it through the night. I keep getting the urge to flatten them out with a hammer.

If not for 'self-wingding' I doubt this watch would have been busted. Go to VRF and read the thread "about the 'fake 5512' just posted by Ralle..." Especially the posts by 'Philip' and 'MC Yoon' about dials from Japan and red subs in Singapore.

"$2250 would be better applied to the purchase of a Complete 1675 IMHO." "GMT Franken's add up quick and using a GEN 1560/1570(5) based GMT movement makes it almost not worth it." +1 Been there with a '1655'.

"I don't think this Tudor Jumbo for sale at VRF is stock." It has been Officially Certified... They have given fake watches a 30 day pass while they fret over fake warranty papers. It was in all the major newspapers... "Fake Steel gets 30 day A-Ok." One collector reportedly jumped out of a ground floor window after learning about his fake papers. He was uninjured but it broke the balance staff in his $25,000,000.00 vintage rolex.

"I don't know of any way to get a good replica crown, so that leaves buying a used gen crown as your best bet and then hoping that it fits on the replica case tube, which now days there's a fairly good chance that it will." I wondered if a genuine crown might fit so I just now tried a genuine 7mm crown on a noob F520117 submariner... The crown falls down over the case tube threads. I did not remove the case tube because it does not have any splines in it like genuine but it looks like the hole in the case is the same or very close to genuine. Maybe a fix is an aft/mkt tube and a used genuine crown. Also need a 3.0.mm x .35mm tap to clean the threads out assuming they are the same diameter and pitch. Maybe someone has installed an oem spec tube in a noob F520117 and will chime in. So...the F520117 'noob toob' will not fit a gennywine crown (on this particular F520117). note: I bought six 3.0mm x .35mm taps (made in Bosnia/Herzegovina instead of Japan/Swiss) for $5 each compared to $25 or $30 from supply houses so shop around specialized tool outlets etc first if any in your area.

"what's the deal?" The toywatch description: "Constructed using strong yet supple matt silicon." "supple matt silicon" equals what is commonly called 'jelley watches' in the watch business. A friend owns a watch store and he sells all kinds of jellies for $19 each/2 for $30 and they cost him $8 each in lots of 100...they are branded 'Geneva'. In the summer tourist season he sells 300 a week. He used to also carry a line of 'hard clear' plastic rolex look-alike watches for the same price. He had submariner, gmt, and ym styles...I have a leftover 'submariner' with mop dial(!) hanging on the wall. What I am trying to say is that these are $20 watches under other brand names, not $150 watches so it pays to shop around. "You could also buy her a quartz replica of a quartz genuine watch, like the ladies Chanel ceramic models." A better choice imho for about the same price of a toywatch.

(using a crystal press?) "Yes I am, kinda. Because of the height of the crystal and the "pressers" (the little plastic pieces that go in the press), I am using the presser by hand - putting it on the retaining ring and using my hand and body weight to press the ring flush...works pretty well..." If the crystal retaining bezel is the correct size, it may still crack the crystal if the press cup flexes and gets out of level during installation. I would advise anyone who plans to press bezels on watches to invest in a crystal press with metal press cups (usually aluminum). Some supply houses have them for as little as $50 or $60. Make sure the bottom of the press that holds the case (a cup or flat piece) is also made of metal as I have a cheapo press with aluminum press cups that screw onto the plunger but it has a 40mm wide by 16mm thick flat plastic (bottom) case rest and it will not take much pressure before it tilts to one side or the other. The bottom case rest is bored to fit down over a 10mm diameter stump but the plastic case rest will not stay flat because the stump sticks out of the base about 10mm under the case rest allowing it to tilt. You would think a 40mm x 16mm piece of hard plastic would stay flat but it does not. One of the best 'affordable' crystal/bezel presses is the BB 502B/505 but they cost about $175 and come with only a few basic cups. The difference between the 502B and 505 is the cup set that comes with the press. You can sometimes find BB presses at NAWCC etc shows and on eBay for a lot less. Extra cups are not hard to find either. Horotec has a good bezel/crystal press too but it sells for close to $1000!! That's more than my first three cars cost all added together...two '55 and one '56 Chevrolets, all V8 with 'three on the tree'. Look on ofrei.com to see the presses. How many know what 'three on the tree' is? Hint 1...'four on the floor'. Hint 2...'four on the floor' is not an orgy.

"Automatico! You are full of info!" My friends say I'm full of something else.

"The balance shock springs look like the picture below (dial side is pictured). Most of the later 1570s have a more contemporary shock spring. The variety that I have is almost impossible to re-install if you ever let it get loose. This movement is labeled 1570 but I do not know if it is a 1530 or some other sub-model." The spring in the picture appears to be similar to springs used in many Etas. One easy way to r/r them is with a plastic tooth pick cut off to a slightly smaller diameter than the spring with a dimple in the center. Press down and twist to release or install the spring. A wood tooth pick may work but it might leave tiny pieces of wood behind. 　 "Are there any visual clues that can help determine if a Rolex cal. movement 1570 is from a 1500 or a 1600?" The only difference is the calendar spacer. A DJ calendar spacer can probably be trimmed down to OPD size if you have a sample to go by (and a lathe). I never tried it though. Date vs no date... 1570/75 date hour wheel is 1.8mm high no date is 1.27mm. 1570/75 canon pinion is 2.75mm high no date is 2.23mm. Same goes for 1530/35, 1560/65. 1565/1575 GMT hour wheel is 2.2mm high cp is 3.15mm The sweep second pinions are the same, the difference is in the length of the tube on the ss hand. If you use a 1570/75 date mvt in a no date watch (1016 etc) with the calendar parts and calendar spacer removed, you will need shorter hour wheel and canon pinion or the hands will be too far from the dial.

"I would like automatico to weigh in. He's so good at distilling the insanity of Rolex." I was writing my post when you put this up. It would take me about two days and ten thousand cuss words to convey my feelings about rolex. It sure would be nice if they issued stock and some rich fat guy bought them and changed things around for the better...drop prices 70%, sell parts, and fire all the snobs/sobs etc. I remember when Harley D went after one of the big Japanese brands for making fake HDs that had the nerve to sound like HD (Kwacker Vulcan/Yamahaha Star etc, can't remember) and the Japanese MC Co basically told them "Shut up before we buy you lock, stock, and barrel and flush you down the [censored]." They shut up.

"Okay so I won't tell you about the set of hands for a 6541 Milgauss for sale on Fleabay. $23,000." Hell-o-fuzzy! I have a couple nos sets for a 1019, maybe they will go crazy someday too. They cost about $65 a set when I bought them. I simply can not afford to pay today's gennywine part prices. This still leaves a few choices for a nice watch though: 1...medium grade replica with swisseta and some detail work 2...used MBW/Phong/Yuki/DW etc case with swisseta plus a genuine part or two (crown for sure) 3...new Phong/Yuki/DW etc case with swisseta, genuine crown etc 4...new Phong/Yuki/DW etc case with genuine movement, genuine crown/crystal etc (pricey!) 5...not a replica but maybe a 1500, 1603, 6694 etc that needs a little tlc I could not use a genuine dial or bracelet unless I found a real bargain. I am working on a 5513 project and have the case/rotating bezel and a 1520 with a dial on the way. Need to make an inner bezel, drill lugs etc. Probably end up around $1300 without a bracelet. Not too bad I guess but it's a lot of work.

"I would stay away from 21j it's a low beat movement and that alone will raise alot of questions used to have one and people just immediately knew it was not near as smooth as it should have been...can't argue with a Swiss eta." It seems to me that most '21 jewel' DG/Nanning etc (Miyota copies) are just not very efficient auto winders compared to a clean and well oiled swisseta. So...imho a clean swisseta is always a better choice in modern fast beat submariner replicas....but then you have the never ending problem of getting a used, dirty swisseta, etaclone etc. It's a genuine crapshoot. Meanwhile everyone is waiting for someone to make a report on the new 3135 clone and I read somewhere that it will work with genuine dials and hands. The jury is still out and may be for a long time. On low cost vintage replicas...if you can live with a 21600 bph DG/NN that may have a winding efficiency problem, you might have to manually wind the watch or shake it now and then to keep it running overnight...or you could replace the DG/NN with a Seagull ST16. I have had a lot better luck with the Seagull ST16 than any DG/NN and it is probably because of the more efficient 'magic lever' winding system. I went to the trouble of cleaning and oiling a few DG/NN and they were a little better but not much. The last one was a DG 2813 in a modern no date Exp and it still does not have much reserve. It could also have something to do with the 12 cent mainsprings that come in them. Who knows? Something else to think about is if you have to unscrew the crown, wind the watch, and screw the crown back down every night because of low reserve...the threads on the tube and crown will not last very long on most replicas. ...and if you stand around shaking the watch all the time, people will wonder what you are practicing for.

I made one up but used a replica case and dial. I started with a swisseta 2671 powered tutone replica and fitted a genuine 18k bezel with aftmkt sapphire crystal/gasket, aftmkt case tube/genuine crown, along with an aftmkt Italy made ss/14k jubilee bracelet with heavy center links using the replica clasp. It went together easily and looks great. The case I used was made to oem specs so the crystal and case tube fit just fine. total cost: new replica watch...$200 crystal/gasket...$35 new case tube/used crown...$50 genuine bezel...$125 Italy ss/14k jubilee...$375 (now $500 thanks to gold prices) springbars, gaskets etc...$20 My wife has owned two genuine lady rolex watches (both purchased new) and the replica has held up better than either genuine watch. The first genuine rolex (6916 opd) was nothing but trouble from day 1....absolute junk. The next one (tutone no date sapphire model) was a little better...but not much. Genuine rolex = No Parts For You.

I loaded up on Paul's no dates and 1680s and always felt like a dummy because the crystals are just stuck over the case neck with the spring wire in the rotating bezel catching between the short skirt crystal and case deck. Try to get some change out of your pocket and the bezel and crystal pop off and fall on the floor. They do have nice date wheels...and the comex sub/sd have 'working' oem type pop off valves (to let water run out after the crystal pops off). The crown guards look like Crescent wrench jaws though.

"After selling on FleaBay, and here, the number of random, stupid questions I've received makes me think twice about posting a FS thread..." I know what you mean. I started dealing with looney buyers when I traded hot rod Chevrolets in the 1960's and 1970's. Then it was motorcycle loonies from the 1980's through 2006 working part time in MC dealers. Most of this time (since the early 1970's), I have traded watches and be-lieve me...watch loonies are the looniest of all. Bar none. The latest breed of Internet Watch Loonies has taken looneyism to its highest level yet and it seems Rolex Loonies know no boundaries. I first started seeing Rolex Loonies 20+ years ago at NAWCC shows...every one of them had a 10x loupe, knew nothing, and asked 100 questions. Now they are everywhere thanks to the internet. Look in the top of a tall Oak tree and you might see one in an airplane tree house wearing a GMT Master pretending to be a Pan Am Pilot. "Can I take a quick cold shower while wearing my new $9k DSSD?"

In the old days 6.0mm od crowns all used a case tube made for 6.0mm crowns and 5.3mm crowns all used a case tube made for 5.3mm crowns. This has nothing to do with thread or tube sizes, they use the nominal crown outside diameter for identification with appropriate case tubes to work with 5.3mm, 6.0mm, and 7.0mm crowns. (8.0mm crowns used an entirely different case tube than later models). When they came out with sapphire crystals, they went to 6.0mm od crowns that used the same 5.3 case tube as 5.3mm crowns. (probably to cut down on inventory and streamline machining) The 5.3mm case tube has smaller threads where the crown screws on and where the tube screws into the case than regular 6.0mm case tubes. Case tube thread specs where they screw into the case: 2.5mm x .25mm for 5.3mm case tubes 3.0mm x .35mm for 6.0mm and 7.0mm submariner case tubes I did not dig out case tubes and measure the threads where the crown screws on the case tube as it is not that important...the crown either fits the case tube or it does not. You can replace the 5.3mm crown with a late 6.0mm crown on your manual wind 6694 etc to make it easier to wind, the case tubes are the same. A regular yellow gold 6.0mm crown is p/n 24-600-8. The 6.0mm yellow gold crown for 5.3mm case tube is p/n 24-603-8. A regular yellow gold 5.3mm gold crown is 24-530-8. ss = same number but ending in 0 in place of 8 A regular newer type 6.0mm case tube is p/n 24-6020 (without case tube to case sealing washer) and 24-6030 (with sealing washer) This tube has external splines and does not have to be broached. The old type 6.0mm case tube that has to be broached is p/n 24-6000 iirc. Use as last resort or to keep a watch 'original'...not a good idea imho. If you broach it a bit too much and the case tube is weak...it might break if the crown hits a door edge etc. note: All tubes come with an O ring for inside the case tube...do not confuse this O ring with the case tube sealing washer. The later type 5.3mm case tube is p/n 24-5320 (external splines, no broaching) Same case tube with silver sealing washer included (seals case tube to case) is 24-5330-0...always get this if you can. The p/n for the old type 5.3mm case tube that has to be broached is 24-5310. (last resort but can be used to keep the watch 'original') note: You must use the sealing washer (separate washer p/n 29-05310 for 5.3mm tube) to assure case tube to case seal. The regular 6.0mm case tube sealing washer is p/n 29-06020. Late 7.0mm submariner case tubes are installed using the same tool as late 6.0mm no broach case tubes. Later 7.0mm submariner case tubes (pn 24-7030-0) use a plastic case tube to case sealing washer...washer only p/n is 24-06011. Later gold submariner crowns p/n = 24-703-8 ss = same number ending in 0 in place of 8 note: p/n 24-7030-0 is for 7.0mm case tube kit...crown and gaskets, not case tube only. This kit includes two O rings for inside the case tube, one case tube to case sealing washer, and one O ring for the outside of the case tube that seals the crown skirt (this is the one you see on the case tube when the crown is unscrewed). note: Submariner crowns have one additional round section O ring in the crown cap that is the same as the two O rings inside the case tube. (triplock!) The crown cap O ring will compress into a groove cut in the top of the case tube when the crown is screwed down...this O ring will not be damaged by being screwed down over and over like on 5.3mm and 6.0mm crowns that use a flat section O ring. The crown threads can be damaged when over tightened and sometimes the case tube breaks off or unscrews with the crown. All late style case tubes have external splines and do not have to be broached...same tool as later 6.0mm case tubes. A genuine or aftermarket submariner 7.0mm case tube can be installed in the case in order for a genuine crown to be used. The 7.0mm submariner case tube has the same thread size where it screws into the case as the standard 6.0mm case tube used in older DJ, Exp I etc...3.0mm X .35mm and a standard thread tap for the Rolex case can be used to tap it out to the correct size if necessary. The 3.0mm X .35mm taps are available from most watch parts supply houses. Many replicas have the case threaded for the smaller case tube thread size same as the 5.3mm crown and modern 6.0mm crowns...2.5mm X .25mm and if this is the size in your submariner watch case, the hole will have to be drilled out first with a number 36 (2.7mm) drill bit before threading the hole with the 3.0mm X .35mm tap. Be sure to drill the hole straight through the case and lubricate the bit with cutting oil or WD 40 etc. After the hole has been bored, line the tap up straight and very carefully start cutting the threads in the case. Turn the tap about 1/2 turn at a time and back it up to dislodge the metal chips and lubricate the tap with thread cutting oil or WD 40 etc to help prevent galling and to carry the chips away from the threads. After the hole has been tapped, clean the case in warm soapy water with an old toothbrush being sure to get all the metal chips out of the newly threaded hole (I hope you removed the movement before starting this project!!) and try the case tube for proper fit. Pipe cleaners are another way to clean the threads out. Be advised that the 7.0mm submariner case tube does not fit up against the case same as the standard 6.0mm case tube. The standard genuine 6.0 case tube uses a silver sealing washer between the slightly tapered case tube and case for a gasket (I have never seen one of these gaskets on a replica) and the 7.0mm case tube uses a rubber O ring gasket that fits against a flat machined surface on the case. Machining the case is a bit more involved so I will leave it out and simply recommend anyone to seal the case tube O ring to the case with waterproof silicone grease. I have a miniature milling machine and cutter for cutting a flat on cases but if the case has enough area for the O ring to seal, I let it go as is. Tips: On cases with the correct 3.0mm X .35mm hole size...be sure to run the tap through it first (if you have one) or very carefully try the case tube for proper fit because sometimes the threads are not very good and they can ruin the case tube. On gold cases skip the part about running a tap through the threads unless they are damaged. Usually you are better off to just run the tube in the case without trying to run a tap in it first if the case tube will start straight to begin with because the tap will remove metal and maybe most of the threads with it where running the tube in may straighten them up a bit. It's a gamble. You can find good used genuine submariner crowns on eBay. Practice cutting threads on a junk case or bore a few holes in a piece of stainless steel sheet and tap them for practice. When cutting practice holes, it is easier to start out with a smaller bit first and work up to the #36 bit. Stainless steel is not easy to work with so a few practice runs are in order. The #36 (.2.7mm) drill bit is a tiny bit larger that usual so the tap will not bind up when cutting threads in the hard steel case. It is better to have the threads a bit shallow than take a chance on breaking the tap off in the case. When you buy a 7.0mm case tube, be sure to get all the rubber O ring gaskets including the one inside the crown cap and on the outside of the case tube. You can use plastic based gasket sealer on the case tube threads to help seal the tube and hold the tube in place and keep it from backing out. Case tube spline wrenches are available to make the job of inserting the case tube easier but you can usually get the tube screwed in by using the crown for a tube driver if you are careful. Sometimes the crown will tighten down and unscrew the case tube after insertion so if you can get a case tube wrench it is money well spent. There are old type and new type case tubes and wrenches so ask for new type replacement case tubes and wrenches so everything will work together. Do not count on the tube to be water resistant without testing the empty case first. note: RWC claims you need 'special tools' for crown r/r. You might get by sometimes without them but usually not. These tools can be purchased from the aftermarket...except the last one. 1...a tool for installing old style 5.3mm case tubes (old type = the type you have to broach after installation) 2...a tool for installing old style 6.0mm case tubes (remove old case tubes with a broach or soft pliers/large pin vice etc on the crown threads...be careful with a broach as you can cut into the case threads) 3...a tool for installing/removing new style 5.3mm case tubes (no broach) 4...a tool for installing/removing new typw 6.0mm case tubes (no broach) 5...broaches for 5.3mm and 6.0mm case tubes plus finishing broaches (5.3mm and 6.0mm case tubes use different size broaches and finishing broaches are optional) 6...tap for cases using 5.3mm case tube (to clean out the threads) 7...tap for cases using regular 6.0mm and 7.0mm case tubes 8...the most common rolex 'special tool' is the $100 bill Many supply houses now include a silver sealing gasket/washer with their aft/mkt 5.3mm case tubes to go between the tube and case. Some offer 5.3mm case tubes made out of both nickel silver (like original vintage) and stainless steel. The 5.3mm tubes are also being made out of steel in order to make them strong enough to withstand a hit or two because the nik/sil tubes were prone to breaking off, especially with 6mm crowns on the little 5.3mm tubes...sapphire DJ etc. For some reason aft/mkt suppliers do not supply silver washers with 6.0mm case tubes yet. Broach(ing) 101 Broach (V) = cutting the internal (installation) splines out of an old type case tube so the crown post will pass through...early 5.3mm and 6.0mm case tubes had internal splines that have to be broached to size (inside diameter) after they are installed. Cut them out just enough so the crown post does not bind when winding/setting. Cut too much out and it weakens the case tube. Broach (N) 'special tool' used to bore holes out to size...looks like a tapered drill bit with straight cutter splines. FYI: Metal codes... 0 = stainless steel 1 = yellow gold filled 2 = white gold filled or ss and platinum 3 = stainless and yellow gold (tutone) 4 = stainless and white gold 5 = gold shell or 18K pink or rose gold 6 = platinum 7 = 14k yellow gold 8 = 18k yellow gold 9 = 18k white gold 9a = 'green gold' (see special tool #100 above) etc, etc... Added 2-9-16: Word for word from an original rolex repair bulletin: The tubes Nos. 5330 and 7030 with the crowns Nos. 530, 603, and 703 compose the new OYSTER TUBES AND CROWNS assortment. The tube No. 5330 bears a crown No. 530 or 603 according to the reference of the case. The tube No. 7030 bears a crown No. 703. The tubes No. 5330 and 7030, as also the tube No. 6010, have the splines cut in the crown side part of the tube. The splines must not be reamed out any longer and can serve for unscrewing. Etc, etc. Finally and most important: The tubes with old type splines Nos. 5300 and 5310 can be replaced by the tube No. 5330, the tube No. 6000 by the tube No. 6010 and the tubes No. 7000, respectively No. 7020, by the tube No. 7030, for as much as the crown No. 700, respectively No. 702, be also replaced by the crown No. 703. (Deciphered, this means any matching case tube/crown combo will work in most submariner cases made since the mid 1960s.)

Thanks for the detailed pictures. I have an unmodified swisseta 2836 noob F520117 LV from 2006/2007 and compared it with the noob and Wm9 on a few details. Mine has: slight serif tops on the 5 minute markers the 5 min markers are a tiny bit thicker than the other markers thinner numbers on the insert than the noob, similar to the Wm the bottom of the 6 in the date is closed a little bit more than the noob, about the same as the Wm the 30 min marker between SWISS and MADE is thicker than the markers on the noob or Wm and is spaced between the markers like the Wm it has a thinner crown similar to the Wm but the crown guards cover more of the crown next to the case than either watch the crown coronet is similar to the Wm with 'small balls' the crystal sits a tiny bit lower than the noob and is 2.0mm thick the bracelet hoods look about the same and they are made in 3 pieces, the seams can be seen on the bottom side the springbars are made like genuine with two grooves in each tube...but they are 1.8mm in diameter the trademark on the clasp is stretched out like the Wm but not quite as crisp the coronet on the clasp cap has 'crown balls' like the noob and a squashed O at the bottom similar to the Wm it has the typical noob 'pig eye' lumi stuff in the bez insert setting I have a few F520117 watches and they all are made exactly like this one. Otoh, I have a few similar watches with different serial numbers and they are all different from the F520117 in various details. A couple questions... Where were the F520117 noobs made, CH or TW? What is your noob serial number?

"My understanding was they are pins..that you drive out and then drive them back in?" The rivets seen on fliplock clasps etc are hollow tubes with rivets in each end. The common tube sizes are 1.0mm amd 1.2mm. The tubes usually have to be cut to size and fitted so the fliplock or hinge will not be too tight or too loose. They are available from most material supply houses...J Borel, Cas-Ker etc.

It sure would be nice if someone geared up and made a batch of oem spec inner (crystal retainer) and outer (rotating) bezels for 5513/1680 for about $50 a set without the insert. I would be in for 5 sets.

I was looking at Ubi's 1665 (over and over!) and noticed a familiar sight in picture number 11...a looong scratch trailing away from the case screw cutout. I have seen a lot of similar scratches and for years I wondered what caused them. Turns out the answer is simple...the dial/movement/case screw whatever gets stuck and in an attempt to turn the movement around so it will drop out of the case, the tool slips and makes the mark. Sometimes it is the dial that gets stuck, sometimes it is the case screws in the groove in the case etc. I have had movements stuck in the case so many times since I first saw these scratches that I made a tool out of a pin spanner to fit into two of the holes on the outside of the movement plate so I can turn the movement without damage. How tight can they get stuck? Tight enough to break a dial foot off if the dial is in a bind (it happened to me), and I have a 1603 now that is stuck. Don't know if it is the dial or the case screws yet. Not long ago I was working on a 16233 with a malachite dial (tutone with a green dial?) and when they make these dials, a thin slice of malachite is cemented to a brass dial plate. When I tried to remove the movement, the dial was stuck solid in the case. I had to remove the bezel and crystal and push the dial/movement out from the front side after finally getting it to turn to where I needed it to be. After I removed the dial, I measured it and there was no clearance at all. I polished the case a little with Cratex and all is well. I know this is unimportant but if this ever happens to someone, at least you will know what's what. This can also happen on projects if the dial just barely fits into the dial seat or the case screws bind up in the groove.

"I am not a fan of the beat up Vietnam shot at looking vintages, but some subtle aging is a nice touch." I agree. I have a 1675 (555xxxx serial number) that was worn daily for over 20 years. It has never been polished and does not show any deep scratches at all. It just looks like your average watch that has been taken care of. The bezel insert is badly faded but the dial is fine and there is no case corrosion at all. I have also owned a few that had lived a hard life and they showed it. What I am getting at is the majority of oldies I have seen were were not in bad condition at all...nothing like the 'artificial ripening' applied to some project watches. Something else while I am running my mouth...the lug holes are not tapered at all on the outside when new, the tapered holes we see are caused by too much polishing with a soft wheel with too much pressure. Believe me...I am no purist. Half of my best stuff is half fake. The worst one I ever saw was a 5513 that must have belonged to a blackout cave explorer/night time sky diver/wrong way go kart racer/gandy dancer wild man of some sort (said he worked 'up north'). The bracelet looked like a bicycle chain. The case looked like a gray pine cone. It was absolutely 'double rubber glove filthy' to boot. The guy said: "Can you make it look like new?" I said: "Bud I can't even make it smell like new." (btw, what does Nanuq look like?)

To me, the 1601/3 'pie pan' DJ defines the rolex watch. I know 'sporty' models get all the attention but for an everyday watch, the slow set DJ is still my favorite 'dressy' rolex. I also have a 6605 and they are probably closer to being 'the original DJ' than the 1601/3 etc but with the 1030 parts situation it is not a practical everyday watch for me. Quick set 16000, 16200 are Ok but they just do not have the 'vintage look' with flat top dials and thicker cases. I like a steel 1603 with silver, white, or black dial, machined bezel, and oval link jubilee...or the same case with smooth bezel and rivet oyster bracelet. The 6605 is dated III-59 but the swiss jubilee is dated 1972, that's the way I bought it and they are not a very close match in production dates. DGSE...I bought some steel DJ bezels from them 10+ years ago. They were fair and easy to deal with.

In cases where there is a plastic gasket mounted in the case and the crystal is pressed into it...a crystal with an OD of about .1mm or .2mm bigger than the mounted gasket ID is usually about all that will fit without ruining the gasket (depending on hardness of the gasket, angle cut on the bottom of the crystal etc). The bigger the OD of the mounted gasket...the bigger oversize crystal it will accept. A 20mm crystal might not fit with more than .1mm or .2mm difference but a 40mm crystal might work with .2mm or .3mm, maybe more. I looked through my plastic 'I' type crystal gaskets and they are all between .50mm and .45mm thick. 'I' type is what is used in the F520117, it is basically just a plastic band. An 'L' type crystal gasket is L shaped and the crystal bottoms out against the turned out foot of the L. They give better sealing in deep water and cushion the crystal a little during a hard knock against the crystal.

Here are the specs on the F520117 crystal: 2.0mm thick 30.5mm outside diameter 29.0mm where it presses into the gasket Sure would be nice if it was made to oem specs: 2.0mm thick 30.35mm outside diameter 29.5mm where it fits into the gasket A thinner gasket might work with an oem spec crystal if you could find one. The .15mm smaller diameter at the top would not make any difference. The used noob gasket is .45mm thick and 1.0mm high...it might have been .5mm thick before the crystal was pressed in it though. A .3mm or .4mm thick gasket might work. The gasket seat diameter in the case is 29.7mm.

"What is the latest concensus on this. If you drop your Noobmariner on a concrete floor and break the crystal do you just toss the case or can a replacement crystal be procured?" If it is an F520117 noob or the same case with rlx, rlx, rlx on the reflector (rehaut)...you can remove the movement and push the crystal out from the inside. The problem is finding a crystal for it. Crystals in these watches are made similar to genuine with a stepped outside edge but they are not oem spec so replacement crystals are hard to find. Do not attempt to remove the bezel as this usually results in a bent bezel because the bezel to case fit is so close that there is not enough room for the bezel to shift to one side and allow the spring wire retainer to slip out. I would also remove the movement and crystal to change out a bezel insert on these watches. Something else... On some cases I have removed spring wire retainer type bezels by removing the movement, crystal, and bezel insert first...then slip a piece of very thin metal (a piece of automotive 'feeler' gauge stock etc) between the bezel and case while sliding it around to force the spring wire out of the groove in the bezel (or case) and out from between the bezel and case. This will work only if there is enough room for the spring wire to pass between the case and bezel. I have an F520117 case in my hand and it does not look like there is enough room between the case and bezel for this to work. The tight fit between the case and bezel on this case is the reason for the crisp bezel action. The F520117 bezel is really not made to be removed imo.