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automatico

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Everything posted by automatico

  1. Thanks for the detailed pictures. I have an unmodified swisseta 2836 noob F520117 LV from 2006/2007 and compared it with the noob and Wm9 on a few details. Mine has: slight serif tops on the 5 minute markers the 5 min markers are a tiny bit thicker than the other markers thinner numbers on the insert than the noob, similar to the Wm the bottom of the 6 in the date is closed a little bit more than the noob, about the same as the Wm the 30 min marker between SWISS and MADE is thicker than the markers on the noob or Wm and is spaced between the markers like the Wm it has a thinner crown similar to the Wm but the crown guards cover more of the crown next to the case than either watch the crown coronet is similar to the Wm with 'small balls' the crystal sits a tiny bit lower than the noob and is 2.0mm thick the bracelet hoods look about the same and they are made in 3 pieces, the seams can be seen on the bottom side the springbars are made like genuine with two grooves in each tube...but they are 1.8mm in diameter the trademark on the clasp is stretched out like the Wm but not quite as crisp the coronet on the clasp cap has 'crown balls' like the noob and a squashed O at the bottom similar to the Wm it has the typical noob 'pig eye' lumi stuff in the bez insert setting I have a few F520117 watches and they all are made exactly like this one. Otoh, I have a few similar watches with different serial numbers and they are all different from the F520117 in various details. A couple questions... Where were the F520117 noobs made, CH or TW? What is your noob serial number?
  2. "My understanding was they are pins..that you drive out and then drive them back in?" The rivets seen on fliplock clasps etc are hollow tubes with rivets in each end. The common tube sizes are 1.0mm amd 1.2mm. The tubes usually have to be cut to size and fitted so the fliplock or hinge will not be too tight or too loose. They are available from most material supply houses...J Borel, Cas-Ker etc.
  3. It sure would be nice if someone geared up and made a batch of oem spec inner (crystal retainer) and outer (rotating) bezels for 5513/1680 for about $50 a set without the insert. I would be in for 5 sets.
  4. I was looking at Ubi's 1665 (over and over!) and noticed a familiar sight in picture number 11...a looong scratch trailing away from the case screw cutout. I have seen a lot of similar scratches and for years I wondered what caused them. Turns out the answer is simple...the dial/movement/case screw whatever gets stuck and in an attempt to turn the movement around so it will drop out of the case, the tool slips and makes the mark. Sometimes it is the dial that gets stuck, sometimes it is the case screws in the groove in the case etc. I have had movements stuck in the case so many times since I first saw these scratches that I made a tool out of a pin spanner to fit into two of the holes on the outside of the movement plate so I can turn the movement without damage. How tight can they get stuck? Tight enough to break a dial foot off if the dial is in a bind (it happened to me), and I have a 1603 now that is stuck. Don't know if it is the dial or the case screws yet. Not long ago I was working on a 16233 with a malachite dial (tutone with a green dial?) and when they make these dials, a thin slice of malachite is cemented to a brass dial plate. When I tried to remove the movement, the dial was stuck solid in the case. I had to remove the bezel and crystal and push the dial/movement out from the front side after finally getting it to turn to where I needed it to be. After I removed the dial, I measured it and there was no clearance at all. I polished the case a little with Cratex and all is well. I know this is unimportant but if this ever happens to someone, at least you will know what's what. This can also happen on projects if the dial just barely fits into the dial seat or the case screws bind up in the groove.
  5. "I am not a fan of the beat up Vietnam shot at looking vintages, but some subtle aging is a nice touch." I agree. I have a 1675 (555xxxx serial number) that was worn daily for over 20 years. It has never been polished and does not show any deep scratches at all. It just looks like your average watch that has been taken care of. The bezel insert is badly faded but the dial is fine and there is no case corrosion at all. I have also owned a few that had lived a hard life and they showed it. What I am getting at is the majority of oldies I have seen were were not in bad condition at all...nothing like the 'artificial ripening' applied to some project watches. Something else while I am running my mouth...the lug holes are not tapered at all on the outside when new, the tapered holes we see are caused by too much polishing with a soft wheel with too much pressure. Believe me...I am no purist. Half of my best stuff is half fake. The worst one I ever saw was a 5513 that must have belonged to a blackout cave explorer/night time sky diver/wrong way go kart racer/gandy dancer wild man of some sort (said he worked 'up north'). The bracelet looked like a bicycle chain. The case looked like a gray pine cone. It was absolutely 'double rubber glove filthy' to boot. The guy said: "Can you make it look like new?" I said: "Bud I can't even make it smell like new." (btw, what does Nanuq look like?)
  6. To me, the 1601/3 'pie pan' DJ defines the rolex watch. I know 'sporty' models get all the attention but for an everyday watch, the slow set DJ is still my favorite 'dressy' rolex. I also have a 6605 and they are probably closer to being 'the original DJ' than the 1601/3 etc but with the 1030 parts situation it is not a practical everyday watch for me. Quick set 16000, 16200 are Ok but they just do not have the 'vintage look' with flat top dials and thicker cases. I like a steel 1603 with silver, white, or black dial, machined bezel, and oval link jubilee...or the same case with smooth bezel and rivet oyster bracelet. The 6605 is dated III-59 but the swiss jubilee is dated 1972, that's the way I bought it and they are not a very close match in production dates. DGSE...I bought some steel DJ bezels from them 10+ years ago. They were fair and easy to deal with.
  7. In cases where there is a plastic gasket mounted in the case and the crystal is pressed into it...a crystal with an OD of about .1mm or .2mm bigger than the mounted gasket ID is usually about all that will fit without ruining the gasket (depending on hardness of the gasket, angle cut on the bottom of the crystal etc). The bigger the OD of the mounted gasket...the bigger oversize crystal it will accept. A 20mm crystal might not fit with more than .1mm or .2mm difference but a 40mm crystal might work with .2mm or .3mm, maybe more. I looked through my plastic 'I' type crystal gaskets and they are all between .50mm and .45mm thick. 'I' type is what is used in the F520117, it is basically just a plastic band. An 'L' type crystal gasket is L shaped and the crystal bottoms out against the turned out foot of the L. They give better sealing in deep water and cushion the crystal a little during a hard knock against the crystal.
  8. Here are the specs on the F520117 crystal: 2.0mm thick 30.5mm outside diameter 29.0mm where it presses into the gasket Sure would be nice if it was made to oem specs: 2.0mm thick 30.35mm outside diameter 29.5mm where it fits into the gasket A thinner gasket might work with an oem spec crystal if you could find one. The .15mm smaller diameter at the top would not make any difference. The used noob gasket is .45mm thick and 1.0mm high...it might have been .5mm thick before the crystal was pressed in it though. A .3mm or .4mm thick gasket might work. The gasket seat diameter in the case is 29.7mm.
  9. "What is the latest concensus on this. If you drop your Noobmariner on a concrete floor and break the crystal do you just toss the case or can a replacement crystal be procured?" If it is an F520117 noob or the same case with rlx, rlx, rlx on the reflector (rehaut)...you can remove the movement and push the crystal out from the inside. The problem is finding a crystal for it. Crystals in these watches are made similar to genuine with a stepped outside edge but they are not oem spec so replacement crystals are hard to find. Do not attempt to remove the bezel as this usually results in a bent bezel because the bezel to case fit is so close that there is not enough room for the bezel to shift to one side and allow the spring wire retainer to slip out. I would also remove the movement and crystal to change out a bezel insert on these watches. Something else... On some cases I have removed spring wire retainer type bezels by removing the movement, crystal, and bezel insert first...then slip a piece of very thin metal (a piece of automotive 'feeler' gauge stock etc) between the bezel and case while sliding it around to force the spring wire out of the groove in the bezel (or case) and out from between the bezel and case. This will work only if there is enough room for the spring wire to pass between the case and bezel. I have an F520117 case in my hand and it does not look like there is enough room between the case and bezel for this to work. The tight fit between the case and bezel on this case is the reason for the crisp bezel action. The F520117 bezel is really not made to be removed imo.
  10. "Thats a very very nice watch.. just depressing to see that going to be gut out for a franken..." I agree 100%. A vintage Longines with a V72 is a classic. A Franken Daytona with a V72 is not. Maybe find a lower class donor watch. I found a ratty Wakmann with a V72 for my 'someday soon, maybe never' Daytona project.
  11. Here are the sizes of the screw needed: screw head diameter 1.4mm (a fraction less will work) screw head thickness .35mm overall length 1.7mm screw thread diameter .78mm If you can not find a replacement, I can send one. If you find one, run it in carefully to make sure the threads match. It is a common thread for screws this size.
  12. "It seems one of the movement screws is too big." "Does anybody know where to get a replacement?" I will see what size screw it is. If I have one, I can send it to you...if not, I will send you the specs of the screw and maybe you can find one. Give me a day or two.
  13. "Haha come and live in Australia, touch wood we don't have jack-offs stopping rep/counterfeit items like that. Customs is far too concerned with drugs and plants to worry about reps." I think US Customs is much like Aus Customs when it comes to replica watches...they snag a replica now and then to keep the swiss brand importers off their backs but in reality, I doubt they care. French Customs...while 3 customs agents are hassling a tourist about his watch, is anyone 'watching' for the guy with a grenade under his hat? The USA is far worse...while 5 TSA agents are body searching a 70 year old grandmother and turning her 10 month old grandson upside down and shaking him like a dustrag...10 shifty eyed potential terrorists walk by without a glance from TSA agents in order to be PC. Absurdity is the basic rule of all governments.
  14. "I've learned more with reps than I ever would have with gens..." Me too...mostly about the DG 2813 and Seagull ST6 though. Seriously, I learned on genuine watches but it seems to me that replicas are harder to work on. If you can successfully work on higher grade replicas...you can fix just about anything. Take The Zigmeister for instance. The knowledge base of RWG is probably 10x what the TZ, VRF, WUS etc knowledge base is. It also seems like RWG newbys wise up quickly (if they are serious) while TZ, VRF, WUS etc newbys catch on slowly because the member base can not (or will not) answer their questions.
  15. 1. "I have searched everywhere looking for a tutorial on how to change to case tube. can someone direct me to one?" There should be a thread about this on RWG if you search it out. If not, go to google etc and look for 'changing a rolex case tube'. Some watches will have a 5.3mm case tube with a 6.0mm crown like modern genuine rolex watches. Others will have a regular 6.0mm case tube and regular 6.0mm crown like older models. Threads in the case for a 5.3mm case tube = 2.5mm X .25mm Threads in the case for a regular 6.0mm tube = 3.0mm X .35mm. The outside diameter on a 6.0mm case tube where it screws into the crown is about 4.4mm. The od on a 5.3mm case tube where it screws into the crown is about 4.0mm. You must have special taps for the case...they are not easy to find and expen$ive compared to regular taps. Drill bit sizes needed to bore the case before threading are available on the internet. Look for 'drill bit size to tap size' etc. Most of the time the original threads in the case are Ok after removing the case tube. There are two types of case tubes other than the sizes...OLD and NEW style. OLD = the inside diameter has to be broached to fit the crown post after installation. NEW = no broaching. Always specify NEW style unless you have broaches etc. Tools are available to install old or new type case tubes but you can usually get by without them. Note: If you ever need to bore and thread a case for a 6.0mm tube that originally came with a 5.3mm tube...make sure there is enough metal under the gasket groove in the case to allow for the larger case tube. Sometimes going to a regular 6.0mm case tube from a 5.3mm tube will cut through the case into the gasket groove. 2. "Is the crown 6mm?" Yes, 6.0mm is the outside diameter. 3. What size tap do I need? This will probably be answered in a tutorial. Tap sizes are listed above. A 7.0mm modern submariner case tube has the same case tube threads as a regular 6.0mm case tube. 4. "Is there a crystal I can install to rid it of the etched coronet?" If the case is made to oem spec, you can use a regular generic rolex crystal and gasket. If the case is not oem spec and it uses a flat side crystal, you can substitute a regular sapphire or mineral glass crystal of the correct size. I made an Ex I out of parts on hand and it took a 29.5mm X 2.0mm straight side sapphire crystal (about $20). The crystal sizes are not all the same on replica Ex I watches so you will have to measure the crystal to make sure what size it is. Something else...generic straight side sapphire crystals will usually have a shallow tapered top edge compared to a genuine or replica type rolex crystal. On my Ex I project the shallow tapered area did not matter because there is very little crystal rising above the bezel ring. Submariners, GMT, Ex II etc have more crystal showing above the bezels and a regular sapphire crystal might not look right.
  16. "The big question does the stem line up as the Real Rolex movement does; if that is the case no more low position crown and correct rehaut. meaning accurate Submariner and Seadweller." If genuine dials and hands also fit, it will turn a lot of empty genuine cases and spare dials into running watches without much hassle. I bet relax watch co jumps through their azz when they see this.
  17. "Long time ago when I posted this review." This review has been in my favorites since you posted it. I still have 7 new swisseta F520117 (5 black, 2 Kermit)...all still in the plastic wrappers with bezel guards on them (none for sale at this time). I just now compared a '21 jewel' F520117 'parts case' and it is exactly like the swisseta models with the 2.2mm reflector ring (rehaut). It came with a DG/CH 21 jewel movement and the same dial as swisseta models except for the dial foot location. They all have stepped oem style (but out of spec) crystals with 9mm offset magnifiers. The 90 degree cut from the angled reflector down to the crystal makes the reflector (rehaut) look smaller than it really is. Btw...the closest case I have to the F520117 is an old River 'TWB' case from 6 or 8 years ago. It does not have any engraving at all on it but it is the only submariner style case I have that has a caseback that will interchange with the F520117 case. The River case has a straight side (no step) sapphire crystal, slightly taller reflector ring (rehaut), lug holes, and pointed crown guards (pointed CG?). Something else...I just bought a DW 5513 case from Sly (smooth deal!) without a caseback and the F520117 caseback fits it. Nothing else I had would work out of 30+ cases with one exception, a River Exp II from the same era as the TWB submariner.
  18. It is true that many replica GMT Masters are very close to genuine in appearance. I have a 40mm sapphire GMT II that is very close except for the wrong hand stack and I doubt many people will notice this flaw. A late model GMT II with an accurate bracelet will usually pass under the 'replica radar' with no trouble. Dials used to be a quick tell but now that dials are so good, it usually takes a close examination to spot many replicas. I showed a watch trader friend who wears a genuine GMT II my replica GMT II and he never noticed the incorrect hand stack. After looking at it for 5 minutes, I had to point it out. He figured it was a replica only because I was wearinig it...anyone else could get by with it easily. Read By-Tor's review secton as he has a good eye and points out the flaws. Sapphire crystal Exp II is also a good candidate, one reason being that few people are familiar with them. Sapphire crystal 36mm DJ will usually pass under the 'replica radar' as long as the dial is high quality. People do not give a DJ a second glance. The main problem with a modern submariner is that most people figure it is a replica no matter what so the latest and greatest 'best submariner' gets no more respect than a low buck noob.
  19. A Venus 175 stem might work as that is what they made the ST19 from. Maybe someone will know.
  20. The tudor 390 is a 12.5 ligne FEF (Fleurier Ebauche Factory) 380/390 base movement and is known to be an Ok base movement but with a troublesome autowind assembly (I do not know if this a/w assembly is exclusive to tudor or not). For this reason, autowind parts are very hard to find so if you buy a movement needing parts, it can be an expensive project. Some 'rolexperts' claim the tudor 390 can use parts from a rolex 1030...I seriously doubt anything will interchange. My guess is the cost of a Yuki etc 5513/1680 case/dial with rolex 1520/1575 would not be much more than a Yuki etc tudor case/dial with a tudor 390 needing a few parts. Tudor projects with an Eta 24xx/28xx cost much less to put together. I had a 390 autowind assembly in my watchjunk but have not seen it since I moved my shop in 1997.
  21. "The question has some aspects, such as if you wait, how likely is it that the movement will need funadamental repair, and how likely is it that a simple service will solve the problem?" One way to judge the condition of a movement is consistency... Does it lose or gain close to the same amount every 3 or 4 days? Is the running reserve about the same when worn daily? Does it keep close to the same time running face down as face up or crown right and left overnight? Irregular running in one or more positions might be dry balance jewel(s), hairspring dragging etc. If you can see the movement, does it have dirt specks or oil dots like the one in the picture? If yes...it probably needs service. There are a lot of parts in a 7750 and they seem to have a higher than average failure rate (Asian models), plus they are a pain to work on so to avoid $urprise$, take this all into consideration when buying a watch with one in it. I stay away from them because... I do not need a chronograph (but they are cool). I do not like to work on chronographs. Any A7750 needing parts usually means you need a donor movement. The ST19 beats the A7750 and a $35 Citizen OS20 or ISA 8161 beats them both (imho). Summed up... At my age, life is too short to screw with mechanical chronographs. Time to 'fess up...if they came out with quartz chronographs that had running seconds and center timer hands that went tickie, tickie, tickie instead of whack! whack! whack!...would you still want a mechanical chronograph?
  22. "1 more quicky - are the tiny sticky Dial pads the best thing to attach the dial to the movement?" Sticky dial pads aka 'Dial Dots' are basically Ok for cheapo quartz watches and lost cause emergency repairs but not really suitable to use on watches with screw down crowns or watches with much room between the movement/movement spacer and case because Dial Dots allow sideways movement. When you screw a spring loaded crown down or pull the crown out to time setting position (when there is room for the dial or movement to move), the movement and/or dial may slide out of place and allow the hour wheel tube or hour hand hub to be pulled against the dial hole, stopping the watch...while scratching the outer edge of the dial. Gluing the dial to the calendar spacer on Eta 2824/36/46 is usually the best method like JMB said. Sometimes you can glue 'platform' type dial feet to a dial and use them to hold the dial to the movement but you must have room for the small platform (washer) that attaches the dial foot to the dial and you have to use very strong cement of some sort. Superglue does not work very well because it is too brittle. Something else about superglue is that it raises fingerprints and if there is a fingerprint on a dial etc and superglue vapor gets to it...the fingerprint becomes permanent, just like on CSI. On watches with tight clearances between the dial, movement/movement spacer, and the case...you might get by Ok with dial dots as long as the watch uses movement/case clamps and screws that hold the movement securely in place. Dial Dots work in this situation only because there is not enough room for the dial/movement to slide around...providing there is enough tension from the case clamps/screws.
  23. "Don't forget, the MBW 1680 sub dials are 26.2mm. A gen and regular aftermarket 1680 sub dial is 26.5mm. So you either have to trim the dial, or enlarge the MBW case, neither of which is an easy task as far as I can tell." "Can rework the inside lip of the case so you can use a Gen Dial or is too difficult?" Going from a 26.2mm dial to a 26.5mm dial would only take a case cut (actual metal removal) of a little bit more than .15mm (a .15mm cut equals .30mm bigger in diameter). Since the 'rehaut' would only be covering .15mm more of the dial, it might not show from the front. If it does show or is too close to the minute marks, it would be easy to cut .15mm away from the dial opening. Depending on how much clearance was originally allowed for the 25.2mm dial in the MBW case, the cut to accept a 26.5mm dial may not be much at all.
  24. On Eta 2824/36 movements with 9mm date offset overlays...you can install the date wheel with the overlay in place but you must be sure that the date index spring is in place before tightening the screws (one at approx 2:30 and one approx 8:30) that hold the calendar (plates) down. The index spring will be out of sight and can easily get caught between the date wheel and mainplate. Also be sure the calendar wheel 'flipper arm' is out of the way of the teeth inside the date wheel. Other than that, it is the same as with original parts.
  25. "My only advice, is NOT to twist the stem slightly (as advice is sometimes given) when reinstalling." I turn the stem so the square on the stem will slip through square hole in the winding pinion and not unseat it.
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