automatico

"I have emailed Yuki for several months now and so far he's never had them in stock. The gen ones that come up on ebay and VRF that I have seen so far have been too much $ for me." Maybe JMB would crank out a few for sale. The spring can be made from a pocket watch mainspring etc and the O ring is easy to find. I just looked at the Yuki site... $100!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hellofuzzy.

"I estimate your 1680 franken would cost $3800-$4200 not including a servicing for the movement and a gen white dial instead of red. add a red dial and you might as well just buy a gen 1680 white with the same amount." I agree. Imho if you get close to this much $$ in a project 1680...go for a genuine white letter 1680. I posted a few times about the 1680 project I stuck together on the cheap but it ain't much of a trophy. It looks Ok and runs fine though. Here is approximately what it cost: no hack 1570/75 movement with 'Mk I' dial and hands from a rotted out 1680...got it in a trade = about $900 DW case...from another trade = around $100 including tube and crown, not much of a case (not gen spec) but the mvt/dial/case tube all fit fine and it was cheap c/o mvt + mainspring = about $25 (I did it) drill lugs (me) aft/mkt springbars, hoods and cheapo hollow link bracelet with fair clasp...$40 or so Comments: As everyone knows by now the DW 1680 case is not made to genuine specs. The bezel is a spring wire affair and the case is 'pot bellied' like a DJ or over polished submariner...not flat sided. Gen spec crystals will fit the case but not the inner bezel. It is well made, has a good finish, repels water, and is perfect for an everyday watch that might live a rough life. I had a slightly used Yuki 1680 case a couple years back and it was just fine but I traded it away on a 1655 project. I looked it over carefully and it was very well finished. When I read they cost $34, smoke shot out of my ears. If this is true, there is no way I could pay $500+ for one now. I have a new 'L' serial number MBW 1680 now but doubt I will put the 1570/75 and dial in it. It would probably not be much trouble but the DW 1680 case with 1570/75/dial is worth about as much as the same watch made with the MBW case because most of the value is in the movement and dial. The dial in the MBW does not have dial feet. It looks pretty good. The numbers etc between the lugs are not nearly as good as the Yuki case I had or the DW case. In order for it to pass casual inspection the numbers would have to be seriously scuffed like the MBW 1680 case that FxrAndy posted about a couple months back. I have a red 1680 dial from IG44 and it is about as good as any non genuine dial I have seen. I would go with one of these in place of genuine and save a lot of $$ on a 1570/75 red sub project. Maybe someone who has put a 1570/75 in an MBW 1680 case can tell what had to be done.

I would rather have a $wisseta in a watch I planned on wearing for a few years. That being said...I would not pay the extra $70 to $100 for a $wisseta over an asian etaclone when buying a new watch. Why not? 1...It might not be a $wisseta after all. 2...It might need service anyway. 3...If you have to pay to have a 2824/36 type movement serviced...get a $wisseta serviced. 4...Asian etaclone = hard to find parts. 5...$wisseta = parts everywhere. What I would do is buy the asian etaclone model and find a genuine $wisseta in a used watch on eBay etc and stick it in the watch (after having it serviced) when the asian etaclone goes south. What if the asian etaclone keeps on keepin' on and you do not need the $wisseta? There is always another 'keeper' on the horizion. My asian etaclone score: So far, two went south out of five. #1 'The Winnah!' is still running after three or four years. A friend wears it daily. #2 'Runner Down!, Runner Up!' went south immediately (winding rotor fell off the bearing). I repaired it and traded it away. Never heard anything so I count it as a runner, not a doa. #3 'Runner Up!, Runner Down!' ran fine for about two years and quit dead in its tracks. I got the watch back but never fixed it. #4 'Fell At The Gate!' never kept good time. The hairspring etc looked Ok but the rate was no good. It runs, but that's all. #5 'Waiting In The Wings' is in a blue dial/bezel modern submariner style watch but it has not been worn. It seems to run Ok. Fixed one asian etaclone I never owned...a pallet stone fell off the pallet fork. This can happen to any brand.

1...If you assume that genuine submariners with open lug holes and SEL bracelets used the exact same SEL bracelet as submariners with blind lug holes...the holes in the lugs will be at the same exact location on both types of cases. The question is...did both case types use the same exact SEL bracelet? I do know that open hole/SEL cases were slightly different from regular stamped hood cases as they had a groove machined in them to hold the SEL in place. Here are some good pictures of an SEL case with open holes. The three piece 801 SEL is also clearly pictured. http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=115588&drgn=1 2...Assuming again that a TC case is made to genuine specs...the lug holes for either a genuine spec SEL bracelet or genuine spec bracelet with stamped hoods should match when drilled all the way through the lugs using the original blind lug holes for reference...but only if #1 is true and I do not know. Another catch being that some replica SEL bracelets may not fit a genuine/genuine spec case and some replica bracelets with removable stamped hoods might not fit a genuine/genuine spec case either. One good thing is that removable stamped hoods can easily be modified to fit by grinding if there is enough metal where needed.

"...just don't like the idea of sending it to rolex for a service to never see it again." 'Stolen' or not they can keep it for any reason and you are screwed. No matter what you say...the authorities will always side with rwc. I would not trust them with a rusty Vostock. It's kinda like owning a patek-o philippe-o... "You never actually own a rolex...you merely look after it until they catch you and take it away." ...then they throw you into a dark dungeon, beat you with a cat-o-nine, and force you to eat frog eyes from a brass bowl. Good luck with the auction!

"A few months ago I asked the terrible "Where do you get an MBW Case Set?" and I got some evasive responses like "do a search." Might keep a daily lookout on the watches for sale and parts for sale forums on RWG. I know it is a pain but sooner or later one will turn up. I have owned a few '1680' cases...Paul/Abay, Yuki, DW, a few of unknown origins, and MBK. Iirc the MBK is the best of the bunch especially if you count the extra expense of a Yuki, Phong etc case. I never tried to put a 1570/75 in the MBK case but I doubt it would be a whole lot of trouble and besides, I have read where Yuki etc cases were not exactly the same every time. I am sure there are detail differences between 1680 MBK cases and high $$ Yuki/Phong etc cases but doubt if the MBK is 'bad' enough to justify the Yuki/Phong etc price differences, especially if you plan to use an Eta movement. Otoh, if you plan to use a genuine 1570/75 and are not interested in making the 1570/75 fit into the MBK case...you might be better off with a Yuki/Phong etc case. The DW case would accept a genuine 1570/75 and dial but the crystal, inner and outer bezel etc were not oem spec and the case had rounded sides like a DJ.

LH knows 1016 crystals. His advice is spot on! I made up a few franko 1016 and tried a few different crystal combos...genuine 25-22, GS PA 464-64C, GS PA 463-12A, no name generics etc. What I've learned: Genuine 25-22 'flat top' is Ok but costs too much. Original domed 25-22 cost waaay too much and may be brittle from age. GS PA 464-64A is nearly identical to 'flat top 22 for about $10US. GS PA 463-12A is a 'short cut' crystal...slightly domed and iirc works with standard 1600/16000 etc bezel as it is not as thick on top or sides as a 25-22 iirc again. This might have been a replacement for the rolex 25-21 used on the old 1018. It's been a long time since I used one so the details are fuzzy on bezel fit. Various no name aft/mkt = hit or miss, some good, some not so good. 'Flat top' 22 with edges rounded off are Ok but it thins them down quite a bit. After you find what you like and if you plan to keep the watch, get a couple identical spares. I use swiss made generic submariner springbars with the tips shortened and rounded off. If the hoods/bracelet do not line up...sometimes you can curve the springbars slightly by laying them one at a time in a spoon and pressing a similar spoon down on top to make a gentle curve in the springbar. You can also use a #55 drill instead of 1.3mm on the lugs for a hair more 'wiggle room' if the springbars are a tight fit.

"Based on price, GEN is overrated for a "tube" that no one ever sees." That's the truth for sure. I bought a few aft/mkt tubes a while back that looked like they did not have a full compliment of threads where they screw into the case...2 or 3 threads short. Every one broke. Always had good luck with tubes from J Borel and StarTime.

I bet he works at Tourneau.

I agree with Freddy. Perception and bias... Imho, the only way to really be fair would be to perform a blind test without knowing what brand was being tested...very hard to do. It seems when the brand name 'rolex' gets involved, things may not be 100% on the level sometimes. If this particular watch was just a run of the mill brand...it would not have raised an eyebrow. I am going out on a limb here but the rolex brand is a bit like current USA politics...if this president was just a Regular Joe he would have been run out of town on a rail by now because of his efforts to support money losing 'green ventures' (when we really need cheaper oil), the insane increase in the national debt etc, etc. While the USA press/TV fell in love and decided he is a 'hero' and not a Regular Joe...a 'rolex president' in other words. I have a SAR/CCG watch (eta 2824-2) made by Horoswiss/Marathon and it is 'sterile' (unbranded). No matter who looks at it, no one shows much interest in it. It does not have a brand name so no one knows where it fits in the pecking order although it is a pure 'tool watch' with a no BS 200M rating, rotating bezel etc. It also has a double O ring non screw down crown and this upsets some because they believe 100M or more requires a screw down crown. Otoh, if I wore a fogged up rolex 16610, the lookers would probably oooh! and aaah! and whiz down their leg. As for our current president...it looks like he's a fake rolex. We would probably be better off with Nixon's head in a fruit jar. "I am not a crook!" The top of my head just blew off.

"I can plainly see the problem with the hairspring, but what is the cause? Is it magnetized?" The section of the hairspring between the attachment point and regulator pins has a kink in it where it should be a smooth arc. The kink is partially covered by the spoke in the balance wheel in the picture in this post. This kink is causing the hairspring to be out of center and after the guy straightened the kink out, the hairspring centered over the balance wheel. The hairspring was Ok when it was mounted on the balance wheel and not attached to anything else...it was just being forced out of center by the kink when mounted. This is a common 'flat' hs and not a 'Breguet' overcoil hs so it is easier to deal with. Look down at the bottom of the thread at the post titled 'Your hairspring appears to be out of center' to see exactly what was wrong.

"Auto - Would you care to do a tutorial guide (on how to change that center sweep second pinion bushing?" pics) I never had to replace one but I would guess you might be able to broach it out using a small broach like used on hands and then press a new one in with a small shouldered tool from a staking set. You might have to turn the tool down because the bushing is so small though. The rolex oiling chart shows to keep the ss pinion dry and do not oil it where it runs in the bushing. Sometimes little jobs like this can turn out to be a real headache. Next time I have a 1520/70 apart, I will take a close look and see what's what.

There is a good thread on TZ Watchmaking and Repair titled 'Low Amplitude on Rolex 1520' that shows some common trouble spots with this particular movement. The part about the center sweep second pinion bushing etc also applies to cal 1570/75 etc. The advice on spotting and correcting minor hairspring trouble is also very good and the pictures make it easy to follow. Anyone who owns a 1520 or 1570/75 could benefit from reading this thread and looking carefully at the pictures in order to remember what to look for. Something else to look for is an out of round hole on the dial side where the mainspring barrel arbor runs in the mainplate. When this hole wears out of round, the MS barrel can bind or drag on the plate and cause power reserve problems etc. I have converted a few 17 jewel 1520 autowind assemblies to fully jeweled and it is not hard at all but you really need a jewel setting tool set to get it done precisely. All you have to do is remove the jewels and measure the OD of the bushings and the OD of the arbor that runs in them (plus the thickness) and order the jewels from a supply house and be sure to order jewels with oil sinks. Keep in mind the replacement jewels for converting 17 jewel auto assemblies are not the same as the jewels used in 26 jewel models...the OD is bigger for the conversion jewels. I made up a few Frankensteins with rolex 1520/1575/1575GMT in the past and had pretty good luck with the donor movements that I bought here and there but I have just about stopped using rolex movements because of the parts situation...hard to find and high prices. Future projects will probably have eta/AS/Bulova etc movements. http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=tree&th=1756140&mid=6051783&rid=0&rev=&reveal=

The swiss made springbars from StarTime they are basically identical to genuine. I have used them for years with no failures and the springs stay strong after many r/r. Springbars for late no hole submariners are also good for projects where you need a stronger/thicker 2mm od x 20mm lug size springbar for rubber/nylon straps etc.

Always remember that a case made for a 3135 will not accept a 3035 and a case made for a 3035 will not accept a 3135. If you buy: "My Sub case set 16610 only can fit ca.3135 or 3035 movement, not eta movement." ...it will fit either the 3035 or 3135 unless there are two different cases available.

Go to VRF and look at the post titled: Bronze dial and some lost gold... It looks like RWC has figured out how to remove every 'spare' nanogram of gold from inside their modern gold cases. They even remove metal from behind the case clamp stands and hollow out the lugs. All you get for your $$ is a thin gold shell for a case. They have been doing this for a long time as my early 1970's 14k OPD is machined inside the case...but nothing like this. To add insult to injury, if a DD has a 5 digit reference number, the Prez bracelet has cheapo hollow links. Later 6 digit models have solid links. Current list price for a new DD is around $30k. In my experience with vintage watches...1960's/1970's Bulovas seem to have the most gold in their solid gold cases. Rule of thumb: The higher the grade of the watch...the lower the amount of gold in the case. Exception: Some of the newer solid gold front loader 'oinion skin no name' quartz watches are made out of what is basically gold foil with lugs stuck on them. Wear one too tight on your wrist and the case or lugs will bend when you pick up something heavy or flex your wrist. No kidding. When you remove a springbar, you have to support the lug on the opposite side to keep it from bending or breaking off (a good idea anyway). I changed out a battery in an 'onion skin' a while back and here are the steps: 1...remove the acrylic crystal with a crystal lift 2...remove the hands 3...drop the dial out of the case (had dial feet but no screws or clamps) 4...shove the movement to the 9 o'clock side, hold the stem with very thin needle nose pliers, and unscrew the crown (no two piece stem) 5...drop the movement out and change the battery If it has a two piece stem...to avoid marking the crystal you can uncouple the stem and blow the crystal out with a Bergeon 5011 crystal pump on the case tube. Replace the crystal with a crystal lift being careful not to let it slip on the crystal. Some acrylic crystals are hard to remove with a crystal lift but easy to replace with a lift.

"...there is always a v2." The Official Motto of the Replica Aficionado!

"Wtf is going on in Essex?!" After days of research I have concluded... In Essex they perform a lot of Hooker-sex in the street. ...and when they perform Hooker-sex in the street, their watch falls off and goes down the drain. At home, it just falls on the floor.

Seiko makes a clear two part crystal epoxy that stays clear and transparent. It is pricey though.

Much of the work to setting parts...set lever replacement etc should be done from the dial side (front side), but if you shove the set lever etc out of whack when r/r the stem...you can sometimes reset it from the back side by removing the autowind assembly, ratchet wheel, and plate over the mainspring barrel to get to these parts. This is easier than r/r the hands, dial, and date works. You can also r/r the winding pinion and clutch wheel from the back side. The hack lever should be installed only from the back side and be sure the hole in the hack lever is placed properly over the post made on the plate. Make sure the hack lever lightly touches the rim of the balance wheel when the stem is in the setting position. Hack levers for 2824 and 2836 are the same...p/n 9433. Always put the 2824 etc movements in time setting position when removing the stem and be careful not to push the detent button in too far. I will always remember what an old timer watch repair guy told me 25+ years ago... "The main thing is to not get excited." True. He also said... "The smaller they are, the easier they are to work on." For him maybe but not for me.

You did not say if it started running slow after 8 hours of wearing the watch without winding it to start with or 8 hours after winding it manually and wearing it, so I would recommend that you wind it 35 or 40 revolutions of the crown, then put it on and see how long it keeps good time before slowing down. If it keeps good time for 30 hours or more it is probably Ok. Most automatics need winding before wearing them. One exception is a Seiko 5 that can not be wound manually, they have a very efficient winding system.

"For someone who is a member of NAWCC it's surprising to see the fake chrono bridge with "Rolex" engraved..." I was a member of the NAWCC for about 20 years. I saw a LOT of crooks come and go in that time and I turned a few crooks in myself. Palo Alto Micro for example. Buyer beware... I saw a guy at the Philadelphia National a few years ago selling fake tooter rangers for $600 or $800 with fake dials, hands etc with genuine cases and movements. He claimed they were "100% genuine" and never would admit what they were. Now most of the fake tooter rangers are 100% fake and sell for around $200 to $300. A friend of mine went to an NAWCC National a couple years ago and came back with 3 fake rangers and he said the guy selling them had 10 or 12 spread out on his table. Fake stuff is everywhere but sometimes you have to know the guy who has it because it might be in a box under the table. Frankenstein rolex watches and fake parts are everywhere too and much of the time the seller will play dumb and not tell you what's what. I learned watch trading in the 'trenches' and this forum has the best bunch of 'watchguys' I have seen so far.

"I have a 1964 6694 and might try that. The crown is tiny on it." I put a 6mm crown on a 6694 a few years ago and it made it easier to wind.

If you want to save $$ when starting out, you can go the 'Seiko route' with 4 basic lubricants...heavier train oil (such as Moebius 9020), a thinner oil for escapements etc (like Moebius 9010), grease (KT 22 etc), and maybe Mobieus 8210 for mainsprings. You might also need pallet fork/escape wheel lube such as Moebius 9415. You can change brands and save a whole lot. Zenith oil for instance is highly respected and the cost is a fraction of Moebius. You can buy a bottle of synthetic Zenith oil big enough to get drunk on for a few bucks. Zenith Vacu-Seal is one of the best silicon gasket lubes too. You do not need a whole lot of 'watchmaker stuff' to do a good job. Imho, you need a steady hand, a good eye, good optics, a few good tools, good light, good instruction, a LOT of practice...and a HUGE sense of humor about mechanical watches. ...and I mean HUGE! I have an L&R Ultramatic/Ultrasonic cleaning machine but good used examples cost too much now that mechanical watches are popular again and they are hard to keep up (vacuum tubes, hydraulic pump, relays etc). Something smaller and simpler is better for cleaning jobs now and then. Even an old L&R 'milkshake maker' is pretty good if you can find one for a good price.

"Just to confirm, the 6020 tube and 7030 tube use the same tube for installation/removal?" The 6020 (6.0mm crown size) and 7030 (7.0mm crown size) tubes have 3.0 x .35mm threads where they screw into the case and both use the same installation tool. All 5.3mm tubes have 2.5 x .25mm threads and use a smaller installation tool no matter if they have a 5.3mm crown or later 6.0mm crown like on sapphire DJ etc.