automatico

!! I'll be in for a couple if I can afford it!

I bet if you followed the average Replica Hater Poster (RHP) home you would see that he has a lot of fake and illegal stuff. His computer has pirated programs. His (leased) Lexus has Jiffy Lube oil in it (not $10/quart 'Lexus Certified Oil'). He bought his gen-u-ine rolex...On Credit! He watches bootleg DVDs. He wears fake Oakleys. He is waaay behind on his house payments. His daughter ain't his but he don't know it. His wife has fake ta-tas. ...and a girlfriend. His 'girlfriend' is really a she-him. He has a sock stuffed in his undies. etc, etc...

If the crystal retaining ring is a real tight fit over the crystal...it can expand the retaining ring just enough to bind the rotating bezel. This is not common but it can happen if clearances between the rotating bezel and crystal retainer ring are real close. If the crystal retaining ring is real tight, it is also a good idea to look all the way around the crystal skirt for cracks with a bright light and loupe before mounting the rotating bezel. If there is clearance between the (mounted) rotatiing bezel and case all the way around...the trouble just about has to be the crystal retaining ring and rotating bezel in a bind. Something else to check is see if the rotating bezel is still flat and not bent. Lay it on a sheet of glass etc and look around the bottom edge. It does not take much at all to cause the bezels to bind up. You can usually straighten a bent bezel with a little practice. I had a 5513 project watch (non genuine case and a new Clark's bezel kit) and the rotating bezel snapped over the crystal retaininig ring just fine by hand but would not turn. I pressed the rotating bezel down a little bit more with a press cup in a BB crystal press and the bezel started working as it should. Maybe when I snapped the rotating bezel over the crystal retaining ring by hand it did not seat properly for some reason...but now it is fine. I sometimes have trouble with rotating bezels not turning properly when I snap them on by hand. When I use the BB press, things usually work fine. edit note: Mount the rotating bezel on the watch first time around without the bezel spacer and insert. By doing this you will not have to figure out if there is a problem with the spacer, insert or just the crystal retaining ring and rotating bezel.

I am not an expert on dials by any means but I have traded relax watches since the early 1970's and have noticed a few things... Dial details are different from 'batch to batch' as pad printer parts etc were changed. Besides that, more than one dial company made the dials. A Yuki, IG44 etc dial may not be exactly like a particular genuine dial in all details but they are very good and much more affordable than a top condition genuine dial. A genuine dial on a $900 Frankenstein watch will usually not raise the value of the watch much (if any) compared to a Yuki, IG44 etc dial...and every time I am out in the bright sunlight I would be worrying about sun damage to the high $$ genuine dial. An 'aged' $135 replica dial is cool but a sun bleached genuine $700 dial is not nearly as cool because of lost value. One thing is for sure...my $125 IG44 'meters first' 5513 dial is 500% better than any of the refinish jobs I have paid $100 or more for on original dial blanks that I sent to dial refinishers myself over the years. Some came back looking like they were painted with a roller and lettered with a hair brush. Most of the reason for replicas/Frankensteins (for me anyway) is to make something out of nearly nothing. If I wanted a bunch of genuine stuff, I would just draw $$ out of my life savings and go down the street and buy it. Where is the fun in that? A bank robber on a ZX14 never gets caught. A bank robber on an HD always gets caught.

I vote find a holey case and make a 16800. Old style rattle bracelet with hoods. Semi retro! Coool.

IIrc... "I don't know, I'm not in the watch business, I'm in the image business." It takes a year to make a rolex. New reality... More like a few hours. Some things never change... A rolex buyer is born every minute.

More! More! Rolex 'lost their way' when they went 100% to sapphire crystals. "Rats! I cant tell the time on my new $44,000 Sky-deeweller while flying my new $25million jet aero-plane because of the glare on the crystal." Rolex 'lost their way' when they stopped selling parts to supply houses. "Sir, I understand all you need is a new crystal but we require you to get our exclusive $2000 overhaul, plus parts of course, in order to obtain the crystal...and you get a free limited one year warranty!" On the crystal. Rolex 'lost their way' when they swelled up and chunked out their sporty watches. "Pardon me sir but did you know you have one cuff high and one cuff low?" "Yeah, it will not go down over my new chunky style rolex sub-mareener." Rolex 'lost their way' when they stopped making 'real' watches and went onto the fashion jewelry business. "Man! That's a super cool Duh-tona with all them diamonds and rubies on it! I love it!" "All you hookers are just alike...you don't love the man wearing the watch, you just love the watch." Rolex 'lost their way' when they stopped putting their cheapo, flimsy, stamped clasps on their sporty watches (the models that should still have acrylic crystals). "Pardon me sir, is that a spider web on your new chunky style rolex sub-mareener?" "No, it is a busted crystal, I bumped it against a slot machine. If the watch did not stick up so high, my cuff would have protected it" "I am sorry sir. Did you notice it is no longer running?" "Yeah, it's been like this for six months, they want $2000 to fix it. I have a new Sky-deeweller but can't tell time on it because of the glare." "I wish I had my old 1675 and 1680 back..." ...and it's been a downhill slide since then... Fer sure.

If it is a no date explorer you might go to an eta 2824 or 2836 with aft/mkt hands. You can remove the dial feet and cement the dial to the calendar spacer ring to adapt the DG dial to the eta. If this is the way you go, you will need to use case clamps and screws with a precision movement spacer to hold the movement in place to keep the dial/calendar ring from moving around on the movement. In order to use case clamps and screws...you will need a case with a clamp groove machined in it. If there is no groove, you can cut two short grooves inside the case with a cut-off wheel in a Dremel tool being careful not to let the wheel or screw in the arbor get against the crystal (drop a coin, plastic disc etc in the case to protect the crystal). Be sure to cut the grooves in the correct spots and do not get into the threads in the case. The 2836 is a little taller from the stem centerline to the dial than the 2824 depending on what you need for the stem to be centered in the case tube. The crown will fit the DG and eta stems...tap 10. Tap 10 = .9mm.

"...hold onto your frankens. You may not be able to replace them." Good advice imho. No telling which 'factory' makes MBW/MBK, Yuki etc cases but this latest panic may sooner or later result in lower availability and higher prices. RWG members (including me) are used to being able to send some $$ off and get Frankenstein Stuff that most 'outsiders' can not get their hands on...that may change but I hope not. Otoh we are lucky Clark's started selling high quality 5513/1680 and 1675 bezel sets because this makes it a LOT easier to get by with a good mid case and caseback from somewhere besides the u$ual $u$pect$ for our projects. Things change... We had a rolex parts account for years and I thought I could always get parts. That has changed...No Parts For You!! Now I have to scrounge for parts and pay through the nose just like everyone else. My 'rolex hobby' is no more...now it is a 'replica rolex hobby'. A couple years ago I traded a Yuki 1680 case for a Phong 1655 case because I figured I could get another 1680 case at any time. Now I am hanging on to what I have left.

"I think auto had one and had to do a bunch of machining on it to be able to use it." The movement and dial fit just fine but the crystal, inner, and rotating bezel will not fit with a genuine crystal. A genspec crystal will fit the case but not the inner bezel...and the case uses a spring wire to hold the rotating bezel on the crystal bezel. All in all it is not bad for the $$. I posted a more detailed response in another DW thread last week.

"I kind of like his Sub case though. Anyone has any experience with it?" Here is the scoop on his '1680' case providing it is the same as it was a year or so back: The case is well made and the lettering between the lugs is Ok. The case sides are rounded like a DJ, not flat like a submariner. They can be sanded flat or left as is but I doubt many 'non experts' will notice the rounded sides after the case is beat up a little. Crown guards can use some shaping. The rlx 1575 movement/dial is a very good fit in the DW case...it uses original type case screws to secure the movement and the stem lines up fine. A genuinie spec case tube screws into the case (case is supplied with a non spec tube and crown). An original type gasket between the case tube and case will not work because the case is not properly cut for it. The bezel assembly is not genuine spec but the case neck will accept a genuine spec crystal. The DW crystal ring will not work with a genuine spec crystal. The DW rotating bezel uses the hex spring retaining method...not 'snap on/fall off' like genuine. You can install a genuine spec crystal and Clark 5513/1680 bezel kit to make it a lot closer to genuine. The caseback gasket is not genuine spec and uses a smaller flat section gasket instead of a round section O ring. It will seal Ok in everyday use though. Imho... All in all the DW '1680' case is not a bad deal, even with a Clark bezel assembly added for a total of around $200 (+ genuine crown etc). If someone took their time to detail one of these cases and add the Clark bezel kit, they would have a very nice case for not much $$. I had a Yuki case that was super fine but I have read of some being hit or miss so this may be a viable option. I have one of the 'new' MBW/MBK '1680' watches (etaclone) and it seems to be close to a 5513 inside the case for fitting a 1520/70 no date movement and dial. The 'new' MBW/MBK '1680' case looks like it would take quite a bit of work to accept a rlx 1575 movement/dial. The DW case is not as close to genuine as the higher priced replacement cases on the outside...but it is very close on the inside if you want to use a 1575 rlx date movement/dial to make a 'budget' Frankenstein '1680'. The main reason I would use the DW '1680' case is to make a 'budget 1680 Frankenstein' with a rlx 1575 movement/dial. If I wanted to make a nice '1680' with an eta, I would go for a MBW/MBK or the best cartel case I could find.

"I had a question about the pressure testers. I understand completely how they work, but I'm curious about quality of sub $1000 models. I see a few brands listed on Amazon and other markets for as low as $200-300. I know these are only rated to 6 atmospheres or so, but I don't drive. However I don't wanna buy a total POS that won't work at all. I was also thinking about how simple the device itself is, seems like something I could make from a $100 paint pressure tank. Those things are steel and it would just need a polycarbonate window cut into it and I'd be good for 100psi (>6 atm) easily, powered by the compressor in my garage." I had a couple of the Bergeon 5555 pressure testers and both had problems with plastic pressure chambers cracking. Next, I got a Bergeon 5555-98 with the improved pressure chamber and have had no trouble. You can find good used Bergeon 5555 for around $100/$150 but the 5555-98 will probably be quite a bit more because it is a lot better. I installed a Shrader valve (like on a car tire etc) in the top of the pressure chamber in place of the pressure release valve so I can pressurize it with a small portable air tank rather than pumping it up every time. The pressure chamber has held fine up to 100 psi many times (100 psi = about 7atm). Since 7atm is good enough for anything I work on now, I do not need a high pressure (high $$!) tester. All the F520117 'noob' submariners I tested were good to 2 or 3 atm as were many other replica rolex models after checking gaskets etc (silicon grease on all the O rings etc). I pumped a few 'noobs' up quite a bit more and they were Ok too. Many watches will leak around the case tube where it screws into the case or around the crown because it does not seal properly to the case tube. Others may leak around the crystal, especially models with the crystal pressed into a thin plastic gasket. I test them with the movements removed for obvious reasons.

I saw a while back where a couple members were wondering if any replica casebacks would fit a genuine rolex 16000 etc case. A caseback from a noob F520117 submariner has the exact same threads but the od is a bit bigger and will need to be cut down. genuine 16000 cb threads...30.90mm noob cb threads...30.92mm Use 30.9 as a reference. 16000 cb od...32.4mm noob cb od...35.5mm You will only need to remove about 1.5mm of material to get it down to 32.4mm+/-. 16000 cb overall thickness inc threads...4.35mm noob cb overall thickness inc threads...5.05mm material thickness in the center of the 16000 cb = .8mm material thickness in the center of the noob cb = 1.4mm Anyone handy with a lathe can turn the noob cb od down to fit the DJ case and there is enough material in the noob cb to reduce the overall thickness a little if desired.

Any company that has evolved into what rolex is today is very lucky to have a spokesman of this caliber even though his interest is in rolex watches from 40 to 60 years ago, back when rolex was smaller and much nicer to their customers. Imho rolex USA has really taken aim at their dealers and customers in the past 20 years. I started wearing their watches in the early 1970's but they have really changed for the worse since then. They are so bad now that there is no way I would wear a modern rolex. Modern to me = sapphire crystals or quick set. I'll live in the past too.

I like dive watches that are not commonly seen. A few that I kept... Zenith Defy diver with maroon dial. The movement is rubber mounted in the case. Pair of identical 1970's steel manual wind '666' watches with black and red rotating aluminum bezels and Seiko manual wind movements...one branded Bulova and one Caravelle. NOS Benrus 100m with rotating bezel etc but no movement, it came that way, a salesman's sample. Matching pair of 100m Wittnauer manual wind watches with rotating bezels etc, one slow set, one quick set. Bulova 32 or 33mm steel 200m diver watch, double O ring crown etc. Hamilton automatic with 'compressor' type case (internal rotating bezel). Same case was used on many brands. A guy gave me a 3/4 size 200m Oris OR583-7457-4055-STL diver a few months ago with a broken stem and it has a lady size Eta 2688 in it (Oris was 'famous' for lady size movements in regular size watches). It says '200 METERS WP' on the dial...not WR but WP. It looks like an older watch but they are still for sale. etc, etc Also have a few ultra cheapo divers in pot metal cases with pin lever movements. Some marked 100m etc but no way they would hold up over 3 feet deep.

Looks good! The 6694 is one of my favorites. I bought a genuine (882xxxx) 6694 new in the late 1980's for $900...close to list price iirc, put it in 'lay away' and paid for it in a few months. It had been in the store 3 or 4 years...I felt sorry for it. Twenty plus years later it is a 'classic' but not worth a whole lot more than when new, unlike submariner, GMT etc.

"This is a M092117 out of the box from early 2011, is this the same as they sell today?" It looks like an original noob except for the bezel engraving, it even has the 'I' type 5 minute markers. Do not know if they are still available or not. I got the first noob in 2006 or 2007 from 'Paul' and the last one from 'a guy' in NYC in 2010. First few had genuine Etas and the last one had a goldtone Plain Jane etaclone. Had one with a decorated silver color Seagull etaclone in between. A few had three piece SEL and a few had one piece SEL. The first few watches had steel tubes over the screws in the removable bracelet links. Later examples did not. The reflector ring/rehaut looks shallow on original noobs but it is partially an illusion because the reflector is machined straight up from the dial at 90 degrees for a few tenths of a mm before it turns away from the dial making the reflector look more shallow than it really is.

Here is how I look at it... "bought new 15 years ago" The watch is around 25 years old, went out of producton in 1986/87. The 3035 is not much of a movement imho and in the opinion of quite a few others. 'Bark' bezels are dogs. Is the dial a high $$ stone dial or cheap painted dial? Can't tell in the pics. Watch shows 20 links, 24 is a full set (15 links on the 12 side and 9 links on the 6 side). There is a bad recession going on. I would be a buyer at $2800. Why am I so cheap? I see a lot of used gold rolex etc watches for sale and believe me...they are not selling at retail prices. Example...last Sunday a fellow had one average 14k rolex 1501 OP (cal 1570) and an average gold cap rolex 1550 OPD for sale (cal 1575 hack)...both running at $1200 for the pair. Both need c/o, crystals, case tube, crown etc. Dials are Ok, nothing special. I probably would have bought them for $1000 but did not have the $$ on me. The four other guys at the table who did have the $$ were not interested enough to make an offer. I know a gold buyer (not a pissant buyer but a big time buyer with an armed guard etc) who travels around buying all kinds of scrap gold, coins, watches etc and he will only pay 70% to 75% scrap value plus $400 (for the movement) for a running solid gold rolex. He bought an 18kwg IWC manual wind gent's watch for $200 a couple weeks ago without weighing it and I offered $300 last week. He said "We'll see." I'll take enough $$ for the two rolex watches this week because the guy might be back.

Imho, if there is such a thing as an 'out of the box classic replica'...the original F520117 noobmariner is it. The crystal is stepped on the outside edge like genuine but it is not oem spec and afaik the only crystal that fits properly is another noob crystal. I have an LV noob F520117 that I wear now and then and everyone who has examined it (gen-rolexnuts included) was impressed by the fit and finish.

There is a groove cut in the 15000 case where heads of the two case screws on a 3035 movement go. The screw heads go into the groove and you back them out against the top rail of the groove to hold the movement in place. When you install a 3035 movement you have to turn the movement to where the case screws will drop down into the groove. The case will have a small notch in the groove where the case tube is and a larger one cut directly across from it. If you look closely just below the threads in the case you will see the top rail of the groove. If you use case clamps you will need a spacer that allows the clamps to fit over the spacer and into the groove. If the spacer is too thick you can cut notches in the spacer to allow the case clamps to pass over the spacer and into the groove in the case.

"Buffed/ Softened Case---I think I may have overdone this. Too much polising will give the holes a chamfered look. Not sure if this is a good thing." If you ever want to bring it back to the way it was, you can sand the sides of the case with 600 grit 'wet or dry' sandpaper folded over a straight edge under running water (I use a wooden 'Popsicle' stick). Follow up with 1000, 1500 (and maybe 2000 for an 'ultra shine'), then finish with Happich Simichrome polish etc. I started using Simichrome polish in the 1960's on motorcycles. Their motto back then..."Makes aluminum look like chrome and makes chrome look a foot deep." "Don't worry about the lugholes being chamfered, most of the old 1680's and 1665's that were worn every day have lugholes that have that wallowed out look." True. Wear it!

"How is the Startime Gmt case set? Has anyone have one and built a Gmt with the Startime case yet?" Afaik StarTime has only submariner cases, one for 3035 movements and one for 3135 movements. The case neck on modern submariner cases is made for a 295 sapphire crystal so a 135 acrylic crystal from a 16000 DJ etc should fit the case neck. A 116 crystal will not fit a modern DJ or sapphire submariner case as it is smaller in id/od. The modern submariner case with a 135 and gmt bezel might work but the case is cut for a 7mm crown and a 5.3mm crown would look like a 10 inch wheel on a motor home. It would probably be easier to stick with a 1655 type case. "TBH im so close to just giving up on all my builds and selling off the parts." Me too. I have projects going back into the early 1980's and will never get them all done. I was digging in my project cabinet a few days ago trying to find a steel case Longines Ultra-Chron with a 14k bezel (forest green dial!) that a guy gave me 20 years ago. I needed to look at it because I had another cal 431 Longines apart for so long that I forgot how the calendar works went together. One wheel had a dimple punched on it and I could not remember if it went dimple up or dimple down. All the green dial watch needs is a marker on the dial...and a crown, crystal, c/o etc, etc. I did knock one out last week though...finally finished a steel case Wittnauer auto d/d, matte black dial with 10kyg bezel from the 1960's...apart since 2002. One down, 200 to go...

"Any idea why the date appears a bit high in the window? That is a bit odd for a gen movement/datewheel, but well done." The end of the 'date jumper' that holds the date wheel in position is mounted eccentrically and has a screwdriver slot that will turn either way to center the date in the window.

Stretch the Rodico out a few times to make it absorb oil etc better. It glazes over when stored and is not as effective. Blot it or roll it...do not rub Rodico across a dial.

Chances are there is a stem that is very similar and can be easily modified to fit. Modifying an existing stem is a lot easier than making one from scratch. It is better to start with a stem that is exactly the same where the flats are and has the same thread size but the hub, detent groove, and pilot are fairly easy to modify. Most repair guys with a 'ww' lathe can do it. 'ww' = watchmaker type lathe Anyone who discovers a close match can post what it is.