automatico

It is a nice watch. No offense but that is a LOT of $$ for a steel watch with $100 gold bezel, a watch that is not in high demand...imho. I peg a used one in 85/90% condition at $2500, maybe $3000. That is all I would pay...but I'll probably never find one at that price. Then again, you never know. After all, I bought a lady tutone 69173 sapphire DJ for $500 last summer. It needed a rotor axle and the owner would not pay the AD/RWC Robber Baron Repair Price to have it fixed. A new rotor fixed it, now I have $600 in it. Not bad. In my experience... I have purchased quite a few brand new AD rlx watches in my time and had a bad feeling about every one (except the Daytonas I flipped) because of the amount of $$ I paid for what I got. Looking back...the only rlx watches I felt good about were the bargains I snagged. Bargains like the new 14010/14010M AKs I bought for $1000 each, 12 or 15 of them, same as new from people who got them for 25 year service awards and would rather have the money. Bought the last one a few years ago and wore it for a while, still have it, with silver dial iirc. The others were resold still same as new. Correction...I checked, still have two of them, silver dials. Bought a 90%+ condition 14000M with dark blue dial a couple years ago for $1000 at the local flea market from a guy needing $$ so bargains are still out there. They are $4k now on eBay (!!). I put the amount of $$ I am willing to spend in a pocket and shop around for bargains. No bargains, no loss. Ca$h talks, especially now with many people needing money and not needing fancy watches. I liked the new 39mm 'explorers' but not at $7000 or $8000 so I bought a like new replica with a defective 2836 etaclone, took it out, threw it away (where it really belongs), and put a c/o nos swisseta 2836 in it. Now I have a new 'explorer' that runs like a champ. I bet a replica like the DJ above could be done the same way and no one would know the diff...this being a replica forum. It might scratch the itch for a while.

"I paid 315$ for mine this year directly from him! Hope it helps." Thanks! Does it have serial numbers etc between the lugs? Mine does not.

$195 Thanks!

I bought two cases from the last batch sold on the forum a few years back. I might sell a complete watch that has one or the spare case I did not use. My question is: How much did they sell for? I did not write it down. Thanks.

"I'm wondering is if the parts that would convert a 3035 to a 3055 would also convert a 3135 to a 3155." In one word...No. Different base movements. Used to be back when the 3035 was King there were conversion kits to make DD out of them but back then OEM parts were also available. Many 3035 were scarfed from SS cases to be used in faux 18k DD cases and were converted to DD using aftmkt parts, genuine parts, or a combo of each. A friend had two of them and I must say the cases were near perfecto. The kits are still available but if you want one (or two), you better move fast, they will not last long: eBay item number: 203090420655 As for converting a 3135 to DD it would be an uphill run because of the rolex "No Parts For You" policy. I have not seen DD conversion kits for sale but they are probably out there somewhere. High gold prices have probably killed the faux 18k cases for now. Older slow set 15xx DD movements turn up now and then and I snagged a 1556 for $600 and probably could have got it for less if I had not offered $600 off the bat. I have an 18k Italy made aftmkt Prez case but it takes a custom 30mm dial and I can not find one. OEM crystals and bezels fit fine. It is heavy made (not hogged out inside) and iirc it weighs 39 grams. For comparison, I recently scrapped a vintage 'Banner' 32mm 14k screw back case and it weighed 10.5 grams. Most 34 to 36mm rolex cases go around 30 grams iirc, maybe a little more. They are hogged out around the inside edges and into the lugs to save every gram of gold.

I do not use it because I am too cheap to spend the $$ and can c/o a watch if the oil crawls away and the thing seizes up or catches on fire. Ha! If I was doing retail trade work (and getting paid!) I would probably use it to lessen the chance of comebacks. After 40 years working on this jonque mecanique, 'oil crawl' has not been much of a problem. I am extra careful cleaning and oiling balance cap/hole jewels and use 9415 on pallet stones and so far, so good. Before 9415 I used 941, 9010/20 etc. Watches did OK for 150+ years without it so maybe I can get by. Btw...I c/o (with new balance staff/MS/set bridge etc) an old no hack, high mileage/drowned/mistreated/blistered rlx 1575 and used 9010/20/9415 etc without epilame and it has been running over 24 hours with no flames, smoke, or heat. Ha! once more. Blistered = damage to plating from cleaning solutions...or epilame. Ha! (details in the omega forums link below) Epilame, Fix-O-Drop etc: One main problem...it is expen$ive. Imho it probably costs $15 or $20 a gallon to make. I do not know of course, but I do know how swatch/moebius prices their stuff. It might be like 'One Dip'. 'One Dip' is nothing more than 'tetrachlororoethylene' that was $1.49 for an 18oz can of 'Pronto' brake cleaner for years...until it became a 'hazardous substance' and then 'One Dip' went from $8 a pint to $35 or more plus hazmat shipping surcharges. It is the exact same thing dry cleaners have used for years...tetrachlororoethylene aka dry-cleaning fluid/PERC. (Imho) everything to do with watches is a Scam! of some sort...except Invicta of course. Disclaimer: I own a couple Invictas and like them...one 'hand cranker' from the 1950s and one with a VAL/ETA 7750. http://www.julesborel.com/products/tools-lubricating-fix-o-drop Another problem...it can cause corrosion. https://omegaforums.net/threads/basic-watchmaking-tips-oiling-part-4-the-escapement.87072/ http://watchmakingblog.com/2011/07/29/one-hazard-of-epilame/ https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/lubricant-fix-o-drop.301/

My two favorite sapphire rolex watches are the 16800 and 16750. There is one strict requirement though: They must have printed dial markers and yours does. Two thumbs up!

"In fact, the dial measures 27mm. This seems pretty odd to me, as I have never seen a 27mm pie-pan dial before, nor any Rolex watch with a 27mm pie-pan dial. Could someone enlighten me to which this type of Rolex watch the dial might belong?" I just now measured a pie pan dial from a rlx 1601 and it is 27.9mm in diameter, next I measured one from a 1603...same size. Never saw one that was 27.0mm. I measured the 1603 and 1601 dials with a high quality Mitutoyo caliper. Check your caliper against a standard of some sort that you know the size of...you never know about digital calipers. I have a lower priced digital caliper that fibs now and then and can be off .5mm or more.

"I got excited about Nanuq's mods and tried to open mine up recently to start some mods but it was a bear. Don't know if it got cross threaded or not. Will try to get it fixed." If the back is hard to get started, it can be a hassle to fix unless you can see where the threads are damaged...case or case back, and try to clean up the bad threads somehow. Not an easy task. If the back has seized and you can get it off, you have a better shot at repairing it with polishing paste. If the back starts Ok and tightens up after a half turn or so, you can sometimes slick the threads up with Simichrome, Wenol etc. polishing paste. Gob some on the threads and run the case back in and out over and over while checking to see if it goes on any easier and deeper down in the case. I use a 'sticky ball' for this and the 'official' type case back tool is not used because they tend to slip and besides, you sometimes need to press down pretty hard to make the case back turn and that can make matters worse. I have also used fine grit automotive valve grinding compound on rough threads to smooth them out but as soon as a little bit of progress is made, it is a good idea to go to polishing paste of some sort because most VGC has diamond dust in it and can cut pretty fast. This also works on sticky rotating bezels, just be sure to clean it all off or it will keep grinding from now on.

I guess everyone except me has seen this by now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faTFFSsOJ7o

Nuq... That is one fine looking watch! It would fool me and I am one heck of a fool. Don't throw it at a bear next time you run out of arrows. "You could pick up a set of 580 end pieces from WSO and that would help a little." I'd go 'long wid dat. The WSO 580 end pieces are pretty good, especially for the $$ compared to genuine. I have used a few WSO sets with good results but learned the hard way that the tubes inside them are not soldered very good. On another note: Free worthless advice for anyone who has not had the 'pleasure' of fitting end pieces... To prevent trouble with the soldered tubes coming loose, fit the end piece to the case first without the bracelet. After any grinding/bending needed to make it fit on the 12 o'clock end...mark it and use it only on that end. Do the same for the one to be used at 6. You want the rising curve of the end piece as even with the curve of the top of the lug as possible. This is tedious and not easy because there is the danger of leaving marks on the outside edge of the end piece when bending it. I use homemade 'round jaw' pliers made from a set of needle nose pliers and cover the newly 'ground round' insides of the jaws with plastic electrician's tape. Most members will not need to go through all the hassle but this is how I have done it...successfully most of the time. Ha! The rounded top edge of the end piece needs to be just a little bit lower than the bezel so the rotating bezel (or fixed bezel) will not rub against the end piece when the end piece moves. Sometimes this takes a lot of 'ons and offs' to get it right. This is also where a lot of the trouble with the spring bars passing through the lugs and hoods comes about...the curved end of the end piece is too tight against the case and holding the end piece away from lining up with the holes in the lugs. The short answer to fitting end pieces is basically trial and error. Once in a while I had to slightly curve the spring bar but if you curve it very much it will not pass through the tubes. Put the spring bar crossways in a soup spoon and press another soup spoon down against the spring bar to make the curve. For tighter curves or shorter spring bars use smaller spoons.

Added 11-03-2020: Revere: "Wow, an ingod dial. Haven't heard that name in a minute" (from a recent '5513' sales thread). https://rwg.cc/topic/196303-fs-donerix-5513/ I added an address to a thread on Ingod44 dials so if anyone wants to add IG44 dials to this nostalgia fest, feel free. Since just about all of my replicas are older models with the majority of them being vintage styles, they are just about all I know much about. Many members have been around as long or longer than I have so maybe there is still quite a bit of oldie replica stuff left. My newest replica is a 'noobmariner' F520117 so you can see I am stuck in the past. Wrong...have one 214270 'new explorer' somewhere, saw it last spring. Original post: Just for fun, list the vintage rolex MBW/MBK submariner type watches you own and a short note on modifications. Q...Why? A...Since they are no longer being made and are 'World Famous Classic Replicas' it would be nice to see how many are still floating around RWG. I know the Vnam etc. cases have eclipsed them in accuracy to genuine...numbers/lettering/minor details etc. but I doubt the Vnam etc. examples will surpass MBW/MBK in production numbers (no way to tell) and probably never sell at MBW/MBK prices back when they were available. Mine... Two 1680 from Reggie 6 or 7 years ago. One unworn, same as new. One also unworn with the case modified to accept a 26.5mm 1680 dial...the 26.0mm dial and 2836 have been removed. The complete watch has swisseta 2836, the other one had a 2836 etaclone. One 5512 from an RWG member a few years ago. Now has a recently c/o nos ETA 2879 with the MBK dial, ST case tube/bezel kit, GS crystal, 'Mary' foldoyster, genuine crown. Had 1570/Yuki dial for a while. Forgot if the original movement was swiss or clone. One 5513 unworn, same as new from a member a few years back...one of the last batch of MBK from 'Rolexfinder'. Movement unknown, never opened it. One 5513 from a member a few years back. Put a 1520 in it for a while. Now an empty case with ST case tube/bezel kit, GS crystal. Iirc it came with an etaclone 2836. Bonus 1: List vintage DW 'submariner' cases/watches if anyone still has one. They were Hot for a year or two and made pretty good 1680 projects. I have a few new, empty DW cases from 10+ years back plus one with a 1570 and original Mk I Lemrich 1680 dial. I needed a container to store the movement/dial in and the DW case worked fine, everything fits. I sanded one case down to thin the lugs and was going to make a vintage project watch of some sort but never finished it. Never decided to cut the CG off or not either. I could make an oversized vintage 'explorer' or something with a 26.5 to 27mm dial and ETA 28xx etc. Added 11-3-20: Bonus 2...Ingod44 dials...anyone still have one in a watch or stored away? They were pretty good back when available. Last one I bought was in July 2013 and it was from an RWG member. Do not know when IG44 went out of business but the dial from July 2013 is a 'comex 5513' and the last one I bought directly from IG44 is a regular 5513 dial. I wrote the date down for the '5513 comex' but not the 5513, I got it a year or two earlier iirc. I had not looked at them for a few years and was surprised at how good they are. cornerstone: "I haven't worn my most expensive watch in ages." Me neither. The MBK '5512' is what I would wear if I wanted the 'high $$' look. IG44 thread from 2012, there is a very good pic from Akira of an IG44 '5513' dial like mine in the thread. 9-7-2023 Still have the MBK '5512' that I have worn more than any other MBK. It has an ETA 2879 that started out nos and still runs fine, but the autowinding is not as efficient as newer 2824/36 etc. I need to dig it out and wear it.

This is why I like replicas...never had one turn out to be genuine.

We can only hope... "Children knowing how to count in their Head without their iPhones." Our present future... PHD's who can not make change for a dollar (while their diplomas are hanging on a Starbucks wall where they work). Most recent college graduates can not tell time on an analog watch because it has hands on it. Probably 950 out of 1000 twenty something car owners can not change a car tire but can call AAA in half a second on their I-phone and wait 2 hours for help. Newlyweds can not believe it will cost $1200+ a month (plus deposit/utilities etc.) to rent a house after living free for 22 years. No watch parts 4U. Never! Etc. Etc. Oh yeah, one of my favorites...Toaster-Cars: Toaster-car owners bragging about the electricity that charges their toaster-car batteries comes from 'renewable energy sources' and then get mad when someone calls their car a 'coal burner'. Truth hurts...'electric energy' is mostly atomic, nat-gas, or coal fired, not 'renewable'. T-C owners act superior and brag about how much they save on gasoline...until they have to buy their first $2000 toaster-car battery or power inverter. I have seen a couple Prius toasters hauled straight to the junk yard after a repair estimate for batts and/or inverters. Another guy had his toaster-car towed out in a field at his farm...he wanted to be reminded not to buy another one. You can buy a lot of gas for $4 or 5k. https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota-inverters-recall-20190702-story.html Looking back, a Prius might qualify as a semi-toaster because it also has a little gasoline lawnmower engine. Tesla, Leaf, Volt, golf carts, electric skateboards etc. are 100% Toasters. Electric Skatebroad! Zap!

"Even worse is the new 116610 with the fat case which to me represents nothing more than a cheap Invicta or a Parnis." Yep, the thicker lugs make the bracelet look too narrow for the case. I guess they are Ok but the older models have... ...and are as COOL as Steve McQueen wearing Persol 714 sunglasses and a 5512.

New Batches vs Old Batches... "The 16610 is the best watch Rolex has ever made." It is no doubt a modern classic. The 5512/13 and 16610 models define rolex submariners imho. 'I then narrowed them down to just two of them which were the noobmariner F521107...' (F520117) The F520117 'noobmariner' is a famous replica and a classic in the wacky world of replicas...if there is any such thing as a 'classic replica'. I have a few F520117 and they are the only replica models that I have not sold or traded away, I still have every one. The reflector aka 'rehaut' is a bit shallow but overall they have 'the look' and stood out in a field of 'also ran' models when they arrived on the scene. They can still hold their own today but most have disappeared into dresser drawers or have been modified into something else. They make a good 16800 with the right dial/bracelet combo but the lugs have to be drilled. All my F520117 have swiss ETAs except one with an 'Asian 21' (probably considered to be the 'original' original). There were some other popular 'fake noobmariner' models during the same time and one has case number D320840 but the reflector (rehaut) is a bit 'wokky' and the date is 10mm offset in some instead of 9mm like genuine and the F520117. The D320840 case also turned up with other serial numbers and was sold for a few years. I turned the reflector down on a few and they looked better but the dial needs to be like new or the outer edge can show scuffs where the reflector was cut back and slightly squared off. Another one is case number F125967 and it is almost identical to the F520117 with shallow reflector etc. but I do not know what type of crystal it has or bezel retention method it used. I have a 16610LV with this serial number and it was sold to me as an original 'noobmariner' but had the wrong serial number. It looks very good though and has a hollow mid link SEL bracelet with bushings on the screws in the removable links. Fwiw it is 12.4mm thick, some replicas back then were quite a bit thicker. The F520117 has a stepped sapphire crystal similar to genuine but it is out of spec and held in the case by being pressed into a plastic gasket. The bezel is mounted by a spring wire and not pressed on the outer bezel. To remove the rotating bezel you need to remove the movement, press the crystal out, remove the insert, and use a very thin blade to push the spring wire out of the groove in the case so the bezel can be removed. If you just pry on the rotating bezel using a blade between the case and bezel it will usually bend the bezel. If it does pop off, it may not turn easily when remounted. I included the info above so if anyone gets one and needs to r/r the insert etc. Btw...F520117 crystals are nearly impossible to find today. Another 'classic replica' (imho of course) were the GMT master II models made in the early 2000s with swiss ETA 2836 and Asian 24 hour modification. They had the wrong 'hand stack' and the 24H hand was not adjustable but they were trouble free , looked good, and would run for years. You hardly ever see one today. Maybe they are in 'classic replica watch' museums. Ha!

"I just wish someone made the same kind of Spring Bar kit, but with Watch bracelet pins instead of various sizes." Some name brand watches use odd ball sizes so you have to buy parts from them. Here is a generic set or two. You can grind the collars to fit inside the links if needed and cut the pins to size. eBay item numbers 153601810955 233080133585

"Those prices are quite good!" Yes they are but there are three catches I failed to mention: 1...The prices do not include shipping/handling, around $15 to $18 USD. Orders over $200 are shipped free. 2...You need to have an ST account. Sometimes this can be a hassle. 3...I have read that they do not like to ship out of the USA...UK, EU, Aus etc. I bought a few genuine parts from India with good luck, one being a like new 3135 winding rotor for $13.50 delivered. The pictures on eBay were good so I took a chance on it. It was listed as: "Vintage Rolex Mechanical Watch Part, Unsorted Caliber" Used rotors are going from $60 to $125 or so on eBay and there is a used complete 3135 A/W assembly from India 'BIN' for $150 plus $18 for shipping, eBay item number 124332929601 A fair price but a long way off if you need to send it back. Might be good for a 3135 clone if it will fit, I have never seen a 3135 clone up close. New 3135 A/W assemblies are going for around $400 on eBay.

"Care to guess at the average cost to service a 1570 in 10 years, say with some minor part broken?" I found this on the 'net: "I called Dallas the other day and got one of the typical ladies on the phone with their standard very nice down home southern style politeness who confirmed this. She said they do have some older hands in stock both here and in Switzerland and they would do their best to try and match my existing dial with some new hands. This is another benefit of sending a watch to the service center because I doubt that a watchmaker at a local AD has the time or access to older parts let alone replace 24 parts at no charge." "Also, we recently had a gmt 1675 done and the overhaul on anything like that with a plastic crystal is considered " classic " by Rolex and they charge for a basic overhaul $1100 , and this is same for like a sub 1680." If the basic charge today is $1100...in 10 years it will probably be over $2000.

Many of us have vintage and modern genuine watches and need parts now and then. The link below gives some valuable information about identifying and ordering parts. My motto is 'No Parts For You' and it is true now more than ever before because vintage parts are being used up or discarded and modern parts are not being sold to supply houses by the watch factories. For common vintage watch movements, I no longer look for parts but look for movements because they are often cheaper than a part or two and easier to find. As for modern mechanical watches (genuine rolex in particular)...I have given up on them. A smart move imho. Parts chasing info: http://www.ofrei.com/page892.html

"I never hand wind these automatics because of the reverser wheels being so fickle and not only expensive but now becoming near impossible to get!" I use the 'light oil in solvent/evaporation' method to lightly oil them and it seems to work Ok and use D5 on the pivots where they run in the jewels because there is a lot of load on them. I have not ordered any ETA movement parts in years, is Swatch/ETA cutting parts off too? Mainsprings are basically a 'watch commodity' and can be ordered by width, thickness, and length or simply by calibre number. Last time I bought ETA 28xx MS they were about $8, long time ago. Btw ST has 2824 MS barrels complete for $17.95: Barrel complete for ETA 2824-2 Store Price: $17.95 'Complete' usually means with MS, it could mean with arbor, no MS in this case though. I never ordered one. Mainspring for ETA 2824-2 Store Price: $12.95 Reversing Wheel ETA 2824-2 21 and 25 Jewel Store Price: $11.95 Standard Grade ETA 2824-2 Timed and Regulated Balance with Stud Store Price: $32.95 In a 1995 rolex parts price list from DRS in NYC...MS barrels with arbor for 1530, 3035, 3135 were $20. Reversers were $25. Balance complete was $160. ...and they were making $$ on them.

"ARGGHHHH!!! You did this to me! YOU!!!" I did it to myself too... One favorite if anyone runs across one is the manual wind Devil Diver Caravelle with a Citizen movement. Tough as nails. Bulova made one too. There is a Caravelle on eBay now but it is about $350 too high. eBay item number 293368595512

Almost all of my better genuine watches will cost less to buy today than a pretty good 'store bought' replica (not a high $$ project watch). I am not counting rolex watches because they are out of whack with the universe. 'Pretty good' replica = the way it looks, not the running gear because many of the movements are junk imho. Looking back 10 to 20+ years, a few examples: Five or six 1960s Zodiac Sea Wolf...$0 to $100, a couple were free (late 1980s/late 1990s). Now going for $300 and up in good condition, non runners around $150. Main drawbacks are the 'offset' CP and snap backs. Steel Omega Seamaster automatics...$90/$125 (2010). Around $250/$300 now. Try to stay with screw backs, front loaders are a hassle. Gold top Omega Constellation...$80 with date setting trouble (2010). Around $450 now. Steel Eternamatics (1990s)...$40/$60. About $150 now. Gold filled UG Polerouter on strap (1990s)...$140. About $400 now, maybe more. Hard to find microrotor movement parts though. Bulova Oceanographer dive models (1990s)...$40 to $100. From $200 to $400 now. Vintage '666 Devil Diver' modes are hot today. Caravelle made Dev Dvrs too. Bulova Oceanographer dress models (1990s)...$30 to $100. From $100 to $250 now, many have 10k gold bezels. Steel Girard Perregaux automatics (1990s)...$60 to $100. From $100 to $300 now. Obscure steel dive watches from the 1960s/1970s...(1980s until now)...$0 to $100. Hot now and going for $200 to $400+. Some very good deals still out there, got a steel 200M Croton (ETA 2451) for free a while back, excellent case/dial, needs c/o and crystal. Someone gave up on r/r the crystal, it had rubber bands melted all over it. The lower prices are what I paid and the dates are when I bought them. The prices now are reasonable prices to pay, not jacked up 'collector prices'. What is this all about? Instead of blowing $$ on an unreliable replica, maybe buy an Oceanographer, Sea Wolf, vintage Omega, GP, steel diver etc next time around and have it serviced. Bulova movements are plentiful as are Zodiac SW because the Zodiac cal 72 is basically an A/S 1687/88 with an 'in house' a/w assembly. Many of the rest have ETA and A/S movements. You won't lose much $$ on a 'vintage classic'. From www.ranfft.de: "The (Zodiac 72) family is based on the manual wind calibre AS 1687/1688." "The automatic mechanism is a joint development of Doxa, Eberhard, Favre-Leuba, Girard-Perregaux, and Zodiac."

"Look at that caseback stamping. Whoever built this case had a serious eye for detail." Nuq's 6204 is really, really good. I remember way back when I would see a genuine 6204 for $1000 or so and everyone (including me) passed over them because they did not have crown guards. Live and learn. There are some real good replica cases out there from 20 years ago with case back stamping like the 6204 above and some are now being sold as genuine. I have a couple replica bubblebacks that I bought on Yahoo auctions 20 years back with the same stamping. The cases are very good and mine came with ratty ETA 2789 movements. They have reference number 5015 with serial number 545383 and I have seen them for sale as genuine with BB movements and dials. Main tells...they have smooth bezels and most of the genuine 5015 have engine turned bezels and the replica dials have SCOC where the genuine has OCC below center. Here is a replica BB exactly like mine (from gumtree.com)...

"Does the bottom fall out of that market someday when they no longer have the means of telling what's original or not?" My guess is many 'Rolexperts' can not reliably tell a professionally prepared vintage 55xx, 1680, 1655 etc with a high grade properly aged replica case using a genuine movement, insert, and dial. When they find out they have ended up with one, you can bet they will (more than likely) get amnesia in a hurry and 'forget' it is not 100% proper. (I know a bit about human nature, being part human.) As for the bottom falling out of the market...the main thing to remember is the buyer sets the selling price, not the seller. Think about it. When the buyers have had enough, the market will cool down and prices will fall. How much prices fall will depend on how fast and how far the market itself falls. Meanwhile, some sellers will stick to their high prices trying to make a profit or get even. After a few years they are referred to as Watch Museum Curators. I am a quartz Disney character watch Museum Curator myself. Along with a 1948 Popeye watch like this one: Picture from Collectors Weekly.