automatico

"The biggest problem as I see it will be the lack of parts rather than movements." Yes, just like rlx has done along with many other greedy swiss watch/movement companies. Well guess what? I stopped buying their swissjunk when they stopped selling parts. Anyone wants to know how many rlx watches I bought before I stopped...send a PM and I'll tell them. Now my best rlx has an ETA 2879 and my rlx beater has a Seagull ST16. Having second thoughts about the 2879 now...

The watch in the link looks good but imho you are wasting $$ chasing gold plated/wrapped replicas unless you are very careful when wearing it. Most of the time the difference between a $900 'wrapped' replica and a $300 plated tutone replica is $600, not the thickness of the plating/wrapping. It's usually a scam and the gold finish starts wearing off before long and you end up with an ugly watch that shouts Fake! I know there were 'gold wrapped' (aka gold filled) bracelets a few years ago but I have doubts about it now, it may be heavy gold plating. If I wanted a tutone submariner, I would go for a 1990s model and buy an ST case, gold bezel, gold and steel bracelet, and finish it off with a swiss ETA and good replica dial. It will cost a lot to begin with but you will not end up with a 'one and a half tone' $900 watch in a few months. Another option is to buy the replica in the link and save up for a steel and gold bracelet...but there's a catch: Later model tutone watches have solid gold center links and later style solid mid link aftmkt bracelets are expensive compared to older models with hollow gold center links. Besides that, I like the older cases with holes in the lugs and sheet metal clasps...they look more like a rugged watch and less like fancy jewelry. I have been down this road a few times when gold was $300/$400 troz. With $1500 troz gold, instead of costing $1000 to $1200 for a finished watch, you are looking at $2500+/-. The last 'heavy center link' SS/14k jubilee bracelet I bought was $338. Price one now...$945 on ST, 14k/SS oyster is $850, 18k submariner bezel is $485. ST case + SS/14k bracelet + 18k bezel = $1510. Add $1000 for clasp, movement, dial, crown etc and you are at $2500. Still not that bad since you will have solid gold parts that will last a long time. I can not tell much difference between their 14k and 18k bracelets...the 14k is probably alloyed to look like 18k. It's something to think about. Btw, since the ST bracelets are made in Italy, you might ask around and get better prices locally.

"I also do not care much as it has totally destroyed my hobby to the point I am just a lurker and occasionally take on a limited time only special..." Me too. RWC cutting off parts is what brought me to the replica hobby/obsession. Learning to work on mechanical watches turned out to be a waste of time because of the parts problem. Was that a pun? My first 'good' watch was a 214 Accutron and now I mostly wear an Accutron II.

ETA is cutting off movements to non Swatch Group brands at the end of December 2019. Non Swatch Group brands = any brand not made under the Swatch umbrella. Do not know about parts. Time will tell. Do I care? Not much. Swiss/USA movement: https://www.hoursandminutes.co/atelier-launches-the-caliber-1-movement/

"I did realize back then that the 1655 bezel that Phong puts out is not GEN Spec, even though he swears by it. I don't know, maybe today's bezel ... so I had to find a used genuine, which you can tell are thicker." I dug my '1655' case out and looked at it. The bezel appears to be almost as thick as your genuine bezel but it has a small flat edge machined around the center of the outer edge where the top slopes down making the bottom appear to be thinner than the originals where it meets the case. I would give it a 7 out of 10. I could remove the bezel and extend the angle on the bottom side but I might screw it up so I'll let it be. The numbers on top are Ok but not remarkable. It is hard to find good side view pictures of a 1655 on the 'net for comparison. When I got the 1570/75 for the '1655' it had a quickie 24 hour conversion on it. It was different from the common quickie conversions as it had a good fitting 24 hour wheel and the little gear that turns the 24 hour wheel that is mounted on the minute wheel was domed and polished on top where most of these conversions are roughly made and just plain junk. I got an extra GMT CP, center wheel, and hour wheel set and I'll try the quickie conversion before I use my $$ GMT parts on this project...after all, it's a replica. My guess is it will work fine but I will also need to space the calendar ring a hair somehow to keep from using a genuine GMT calendar ring. The only reason the conversion did not work correctly to begin with is the hands were too close to the dial because of the regular 1575 date CP, hour wheel etc that are shorter than GMT parts. It had four hands in a three hand space. I have a couple '1655' that I got from Abay about 15 years ago but they used submariner cases so I would need to keep my left hand in a coat pocket when wearing one around rolex freaks. They are not too bad overall and came with new swiss 2836 ETAs and good 24 hour conversions. I changed a crystal on one and used a 1680 crystal and sanded the skirt down to make it a little bit shorter. I planned to put a slower beat 2846 in one but never did. Here is one of the ratty GMT 24 hour conversions. You can see the slack in the 24 hour wheel where it fits over the 12 hour wheel: https://rwg.cc/topic/141303-cal-1570-gmt-tell-me-if-i-m-wrong/

"I always remember Phong use to justify his expensive parts, and cases on using better stainless and specs compared to Yuki ... he would say "yuki was garbage" .. LoL" Except for the Yuki cases that look better than his. Ha! Most SS replica cases are 316L...it's cheap and relatively easy to machine. SS in general is a pain though. There is maybe 75 cents worth of 316L needed to make a watch case...current commodity price is $1.65 per pound. Cheaper by the ton. How duh, duh, duh, dumb do they think we are? (no answers please) "I did pick up a Phong 1655 midcase many years age, his bezel was not equivalent to Genuine, so I found a Gen 1655 bezel with a ding... most the other Gen parts for the case I collected over the years, including 1570 GMT movement." I have one of his 1655 cases from 7 or 9 years back that I got from an RWG member. Have not finished it yet because by the time I rounded up all the GMT parts I needed, I lost interest. I need to finish it. "As far as what I see ... all the new and "close to spec" vintage Rolex case sets are coming from Vietnam …" That seems to be the case. (pun!) Final finishing and serial/reference/case back letters and numbers are what would be hard. Putting removal notches in case backs would also be hard to do on a small scale. I wonder if they start by punching out case blanks from sheet or machining them from a bar etc? CNC machining from scratch is probably cheaper than using a big punch press to make blanks then finish by CNC. They might even buy unfinished punch blanks from case makers in China. Who knows?

"Cartel vintage submariner (5513 or 1680) these are actually very good bases. Modded to enlarge the lug holes, replace movement for a eta 2846 or other slow beat movement." Good advice. I put one together and the only thing that bothered me about it is the lug holes were a hair too high in the lugs after drilling them out to 1.3mm. It is not that bad and the holes are still out of the bevels so it's really Ok. Other than that it turned out just fine.

"I have a DW 1680 case set. Looking for parts, gen-spec ... not Yuki." If 'DW' = David Wong... I have a few DW 1680 cases and the main thing that is close to gen-spec on them is the case back on most of them. The case necks are a hair too small in diameter and the case sides are rounded like a DJ. All of mine came with spring wire bezel sets, not snap on like oem and because of the undersized case neck, fitting crystals can be a problem. Some DW cases also have undersize case back threads...oem is 30.9mm and most of my DW cases are 30.9 but some are 30.4mm. All of mine came with the gasket groove cut in the case back like genuine. The overall quality is good imho, other than spec accuracy. Later Yuki 55xx and 1680 cases were very good imho. I read somewhere they came from VN but do not know if it is true or not. Afaik they have been discontinued for quite a while. "Would it be better to go with MQ instead?" If it was me, I would keep after Ruby for a while...to save $$.

It could also be a genuine case/dial/bracelet with a non rolex movement...very hard to tell without removing the case back. Not many of them around though. If it has a plastic crystal...ask if it is slow set or quick set date, they look alike. QS usually sells a little bit higher. Good luck!

No experience with them at all but keep in mind almost all of the mid grade replicas sold as complete watches on the internet come from the same 'holes in the ground' in China. Higher grade replica components needed to assemble a 'close to genuine' watch (cases, dials, bracelets) may come from China, VN Thailand etc and they will be much closer to genuine in appearance but also much more expensive. The average unmodified cartel vintage type 5512/13/1680/GMT etc sells for about $180 to $250 USD. The average lightly detailed cartel replica will cost around $300 to $1000 to put together depending on who does it and the parts used...lug hole drilling, aging bezel/dial, or buying better dial etc. The average high grade replica with a fresh swiss ETA may run from $1500 to $2500 or more. This basically eliminates thevintagepower watches from being 'one off' high grade creations. My guess is these watches are basic China cartel type watches with 'aged' lume on the dials/hands. Notice the 'GMT' has the same submariner type crown guards as used on basic cartel GMTs and I can not tell if the lug holes have been bored out for oem spring bars or not...a 'gotta have it' modification. It looks like the printing/lume on the dial is the main difference along with the hands. Imho the explorer dial and hands are overcooked. Here are examples of what you can get on a basic cartel submariner/GMT from a trusted dealer (except for the deep fried dial and hands): http://www.trustytime01.cc/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1_11 Maybe someone who knows about the thevintagepower watches will chime in.

Here is a little info on tutone and goldtone watches/bracelets: 1...Gold plating may be 'flash gold plating' that will last for a few weeks (or days) up to 20 micron (or more) plating that will last for years. Items with 10, 20 or more microns of plating may be marked somewhere. Many vintage watches were marked between the lugs on the case. Many 'goldtone items today are PVD plated with no gold at all...the average modern Citizen watch for example. A micron is one thousandth of a millimeter. 2...'Gold filled' is a thin layer of gold applied to the base metal (SS, brass etc) under heat and pressure, some with solder applied between the two. The thickness or amount of gold is often stated in a roundabout manner such as 1/20 and that means the part is one twentieth (5%) gold by weight. The more the part is worn, the less the gold content. 3...'Gold capped' basically means heavy gold fill. It can be as thick as 40 to 80 microns, sometimes more. 4...'Solid gold' is 'solid' gold although many items are a lower karat weight than specified. This is not legal but it is more or less common in many off brand items. There is a lot of it on the internet no doubt. Most jewelry/watch pieces are 18k or 14k gold and there is still a lot of 10k gold items in the USA. The USA requires 'solid gold' to be at least 10k and Hallmarked. Anything lower than 8k is considered scrap gold although I have seen some 8k center links in tutone watch bracelets. The UK accepts 9k as their lower standard. 5...'Gold wrapped' should be the same as gold filled but it is usually just gold plating, especially on replicas. 'Gold wrapped' sounds better and a few years ago there was quite a bit of it around but not now with $1500 troz gold. 6...Most of the 'Italian Made' gold and tutone items are very high quality...if that is what it really is. ST sells it as do many other reputable supply houses etc but it is expensive. 7...If a 'solid gold' item is priced 25% or more below scrap value from a knowledgeable seller...it may not be what it is supposed to be. Otoh, sometimes the item was purchased when gold was $500 or $1000 troz and the seller just wants to sell it and make a little bit of $$. Heavy gold plated bracelets can be a LOT less $$ but the plating may be thin. Heavy PVD may be less $$ than actual gold plating if you can find it. I took a worn out 13 link SS/18k oyster bracelet apart a few years ago but I can not find the note that stated the gold weight in grams. Assuming it was 15 grams the gold would be worth $542 USD today ($1500 troz gold) and an honest gold buyer would pay about $500 for it. Fifteen grams of 14k gold is $422 USD today. So...a new high quality tutone jubilee style bracelet with 14k 'solid gold' center links will be very hard to find today for $399. $699 maybe...

Good looking watch! Here is a road test of an earlier model Seiko SNZG13 with a 7S26C: https://wornandwound.com/review/seiko-5-snzg-review/

The only mechanical Seiko models I am familiar with are the Seiko 5 models from 10 or 15 years ago with the 7S26. I hardly ever work on one except to put a winding rotor 'in time' where someone got it out of whack or c/o the balance jewels to get one running so I can trade it off. A store I was with sold 'Fives' and we had so much trouble with them that we had to buy quite a few back so we stopped selling them. Low reserve and bad time keeping were the usual complaints. To be fair, I suspect many of the complaints came from former quartz watch owners. Sold a nos 'Five' to a guy a while back and he returned it not long after and asked: "What's the matter with this $#&%*@$ thing?" I gave his $$ back...all $35 of it. I still see posters on other forums singing their praises though. About 15 years back when we used to buy them for $35 or $40 each the guy we got them from claimed the Plain Jane dress models cost $12 out of the factory in Singapore. I did not believe it then but now...

Seiko has an alphabet soup of movement designations and one movement that turns up in many homage watches and a few replicas is the Seiko 6R36. There is little doubt it is a few notches above an Asian '21 jewel' or etaclone movement. Here is some info on it: https://www.thewatchblog.co.uk/seiko-4r36-movement-review-which-watches-use-it/ I forgot to add the old Invicta standby, the Seiko NH35: https://www.thewatchblog.co.uk/seiko-nh35a-movement-guide/

...between an MBK 55xx/1680 watch with a genuine rlx 15xx movement and one with a fresh 21600 bph swiss ETA? A: In my experience, not much at all except the $$. Imho the MBK 'submariner' cases are fine for ETA projects but not for rlx 15xx projects mainly because of the ratty laser engraving and the fact that they all are 1680 spec inside and 55xx spec for dials. I have been wearing an MBK '5512' for a month or two with a nos ETA 2879 after wearing the same watch on and off for a couple years with a rlx 1570 in it. The only two differences that I have noticed are that it needs setting about once a week instead of every two weeks (or when about one minute off) and the ETA does not recover full reserve as quickly as the rlx 15xx during daily wear. That's it. For an knock around everyday watch, the MBK/ETA combo is hard to beat. I've tried quite a few combinations with rlx 15xx movements including a '1016' using a 16220 case going back to mid 1997 and none of them were noticeably better than watches with ETA movements. That being said, I would be Ok with using a rlx 15xx with a high grade case/dial/bracelet combo...except for spending the extra $$ of course. What this all boils down to is it seems to me that using an ETA movement in an MBK or modified cartel case is a better alternative for an everyday watch than an MBK or similar priced case with a rlx 15xx movement. Imho, use the rlx 15xx movements with the best cases/dials.

"In my opinion the swiss are worth the extra money." I agree if the watch is worth it. Otoh, many of my project watches are only worth the swiss ETA movement inside them. Sad but true. (swiss ETA movements) "Of course they have problems too, but not nearly as often as the clones. The quality of the parts and the fit is much better in the swiss than the clones." True. Most of the trouble I have had with 28xx swiss ETA movements has been in the autowind assembly, the reversers are sensitive to lubrication. Read the whole thread: https://forums.watchuseek.com/f6/lubricating-reversing-wheels-eta-2836-2-a-3600882.html

"Those Bulova electric watches are great BUT most of them used the old mercury battery which are no longer available due to the obvious reasons." Bulova Accutron 214, 218 etc originally came with mercury 1.35V batts. Modern silver oxide replacements are 1.55 volts. The 'Accucell' cuts the voltage down little but most use 395 cells with a voltage reducer in a plastic adapter. Full size Precisionist and Accutron II (time only and time and date) use 3V 2016 coin cells. ESA balance wheel electrics from 1960s/1970s may have been delivered with 343 batts but they can use 344 or something similar. 343 = mercury 344 = silver oxide

Bulova Accutron II and Precisionist watches have smooth sweep second hands and keep time within 5 or 10 seconds a month. There are also ESA/ETA balance wheel electrics from the 1960s/1970s and you can sometimes find nos examples for around $50 each. http://electric-watches.co.uk/movement-types/transistorised/

"The more I stare at them the more they all look the freakin' same!" I know what you mean. I have a couple from Yuki that I got 5 or 6 years ago and a couple from 'Stilty' from about 10 or 11 years ago plus one supposedly from IG44. They all look the same from a couple feet away but up close the IG44 and Stilty dials are a tad better. The Yuki dials are pretty good though. For comparison, I have a nos 1016 trit dial and truth is the replicas are all pretty good compared to the genuine dial. After the crystal gets seasoned from knocks and dims the details a little bit, the replica dials are fine with me. I have a 'Stilty' dial in my JMB 1016 and it looks very good (to me anyway) except for the 6 hole clasp on Mary's bendover oyster bracelet.

"Pull the bracelet off and look at the SN- MBWs should be like 5,79x,xxx but a DRSD would have an earlier SN." +1 Also see if it has 'ORIG POLEX DESIGN' between the lugs at the 12 o'clock side. https://rwg.cc/topic/193982-submariner-build-questions/page/3/

Here is one like it, item number 111812 on Bob's Watches... https://www.bobswatches.com/vintage-rolex-submariner-ref-1680-black.html Otoh it looks just like the crown on my Abay 1680. Ha!

Q... "Does anybody have a guess as to what circa the Yuki matte dials are based from?" A... "when i was trying to find one to draw off, i noticed they are all over the place. yuki's one is probably a mashup of different eras?" More than likely the right answer. From VRF: -early matte “frog” logo orange yellow patina dial -serial 144xxxxx -66 caseback From "A Rolex Collector's Resource"... "While there has never been an official statement of why Rolex moved from gilt to matte dials in the latter half of the 1960’s, the latter seems to exude the ‘tool watch’ vibe that Rolex aspired to inspire — while (likely) keeping production costs low. These dials have a pebbled black background printed on a copper plate. The text, minute, and hour markers are then overlaid in white and tritium lume is applied on top. While definitely a less intensive process than galvanic printing, the continual tweaks Rolex made over the long production run of the matte 1016 (1966-1989) means the variations are anything but simple." Some more 1016 info on the same site: https://explorer1016.com/matte/service-dials/ Chrono24 has a boat load of them to look at: https://www.chrono24.com/rolex/ref-1016.htm

Nothin' to it. Ha! The hard way... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiL5epA72iM The easy way... https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=laserstar+technologies+laser+welders&&view=detail&mid=CE243571F3A5CC341523CE243571F3A5CC341523&&FORM=VDRVRV Making a case... https://www.3watches.com/watch-case-manufacturing-process/ The first one cost $thousands of bucks and the next thousand cost a few bucks each. TAG Team... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cqfiNIMCP4

"In my opinion I would avoid eta clones resulting from my following experiences." Imho Asian eta clones are hammer bait. Sucker..."How much is a crown for my Relax watch?" Jackal..."Twenty one hundred dollars." Sucker..."What? For a crown!!" Jackal..."That's just for the crown but we do not sell parts. We also demand you get the Mandatory Factory Expert Repair Service (aka MFERS) at an additional seventeen thousand dollars...or one kidney. Plus tax." Sucker..."Guess I'll have to take the kidney deal." Jackal…"Whizz in this cup while I watch closely."

Since we now know how much a dial may be worth, here is what a set of hands and bez insert might go for: 1) New Old Stock GMT 1675 ALL RED set of hands with a crazy patina . € 4500,- ( sold extra forum ) 2) Early 70 AWESOME GMT 1675 Super FF Insert . A really time capsule . € 3950 Add shipping cost https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/vintagerolexforum/fs-some-rolex-vintage-parts-t254468.html