automatico

They look good but...list price on a strap $4K! $1195 sounds better. Meanwhile there are new Victorinox Air Boss chronographs with Val/Eta 7753 on eBay for $415...more watch for less $$ imho. eBay item number 264076361855 Did I put my $$ where my big mouth is? Yep. I have two 7753 Air Boss watches, one new, one used.

"How close to gen is an mbw case because I have a stock mbw watch in in the works which already has a gen crystal." MBW cases are basically 1680 spec cases with a dial seat/window made to accommodate a 26.0mm 55xx dial, not a proper 26.5mm 1680 dial. They will accept an ETA 2836/46 or rlx 1575 date movement. More details in the rolex sticky. Drilling lug holes... In my experience all MBW/MBK cases I have (4) were Ok to drill out to 1.25/1.30mm because the original spring bar holes were not too close to the top or bottom of the lugs. I have seen some cartel cases that have the holes off enough to get very close or even into the bevel at the top of the lugs when drilled out. Sometimes you need to trim the curves in the hoods (bracelet end pieces) so they will fit up against the case, not rub the rotating bezel, and allow the spring bar to pass through. Many if not most of the distances between the case band and lug holes are off a little bit from oem as are aftmkt hoods so the hoods usually need to be trimmed and fitted. Be sure to also trim the rounded bottom edges of the hoods if needed so the case back can be r/r and not get in a bind with the hoods. "Is a vintage 5513 low beat?" All 1530, 1535 (Date), 1555 (DD) and 1560, 1565 (Date), 1565 GMT etc. are 18000 bph. All 1520/1525 (Date), 1556 (DD) 1570, 1575 (Date), 1575 GMT, 1580 Mg etc. are 19800 bph. Parts swapping can disguise a movement such as a 1560 with a 1570 autowind assembly etc. Many 1560 are easy to spot because they have a 'curb feeler' arm over the hairspring to keep it from getting tangled up. The 1520 is also easy to spot because it has a flat hairspring and regulator where the 1530, 1560, 1570 etc. have a Breguet overcoil. "Does $450 for a non running mbw watch head only with gen crystal sound like an alright deal?" Not too bad (imho) if the case is in first class condition and has not been 'artificially aged'...this often ruins them imho. The genuine crystal helps too. A non running eta clone is basically junk unless you want to have it repaired and any swiss ETA that came in an MBK will probably be 28800 bph so you are basically buying a case, crystal, and dial. With a n/r swiss ETA you are probably better off to the tune of $50 +/- than with a n/r etaclone. MBK dials...5512/13 dials have usually not been modified and will be Ok but many 1680 dials have been roughly ground down to fit into the 26.0mm dial seat and the dial paint may be chipped or peeling around the edge. Later MBK 55xx and 1680 cases are exactly the same inside and outside, do not know about earlier cases.

"...Triumph chose, instead, to weld two of their crappy four-cylinder lumps together, which produced one of the most unreliable engines in British automotive history." Never owned a British car but I rode/pushed Norton and Triumph motorcycles in the 1960s/early 1970s. Reliability was nonexistent. You could rev one up and watch stuff fall off and oil drip on the ground while the electronics flickered on and off (sometimes accompanied by a veil of black smoke). Toward the end of my Brit bike phase I gave a Triumph TR6 Trophy MC to a kid down the street just to get rid of it. Then I bought a 1948 HD Panhead 'chopper' with hand shift, 'suicide' foot clutch, and no front brake. Had a guy wanted to buy it but he had to test ride it first but was afraid to start it after I told him "You kick it, it kicks you". It got away from him and dug up a neighbor's yard while he did a great Bronco Billy imitation. No sale, he was scared half to death. I told him "No Guts, No Glory". Sold it to a guy who paid for it and took off on it, said he could 'ride and fix anything'. He called back about 15 minutes later from a pay phone and said it backfired and blew the carburetor off. He was Ok with that but was upset because the heavy brass Linkert carb flew around (attached to the gas cable) and knocked a dent in the gas tank. I said "All sales final" and went for a ride on my new Ducati. The carb was attached to a home made manifold by a rubber hose/hose clamp and stuck out from the original location. It blew off all the time.

"Do you guys this would be a good jumping off point for either a gmt or sub build?" "$40 is what it's worth- meaning it's a bad rep." The 'goat is right. It ain't too hot. If it was me...I would wait until a higher quality watch comes along and save all the hassles and expense of making this one passable. A few examples of what was/is out there (GMT): About 10 or 14 years ago there was a batch of sapphire 16710 GMT Masters made with genuine swiss ETA 2836 and China 24 hour conversions. Most had the 'whs' (wrong hand stack) and the 24H hand was not adjustable but very few would notice. They looked pretty good and would run for years with no trouble provided the movement was good to begin with. Prices back them...around $200/$250 new. Price today depending on condition...$250 and up used to $400/$500 for nos. The higher grade models had hollow mid links in the bracelets etc. but most sapphire models did not have holes all the way through the lugs. The models with adjustable 24H hands could cause problems. This same basic watch was also made as a '1675/16750' with lug holes but the printed marker dial had 'oyster perpetual date' and it should have 'oyster perpetual'. No one seemed to notice except RWG members Ha! Having a 'fast beat' movement made it a better 16750 than 1675. All the examples I saw had 6.0mm crowns (genuine was 5.3mm) and the one I still have came with a '1680' sticker on the case back when I got it along with an acrylic crystal, two way bezel, Pepsi insert, and lug holes. It had a solid mid link oyster bracelet with regular clasp. Close but no cigar. Not really too bad though looking back. About this time, the same sapphire case/dial/bracelet was also offered with a DG3804 movement and they were around $200 to $225 new but I have not seen any for sale in a long time, new or used. The 3804 is as rugged as can be but the running reserve is usually a little bit short compared to an ETA and it is a slower beat...21600 vs the ETA 28800 (same as rolex). The 24H hand is adjustable...turn the crown one way in the first notch and the date flips, turn it the other way and the 24H hand advances. They do not cause problems like the early ETA with adjustable 24H hands. Notes... The ETA models and better DG models had metal movement spacers with case clamps and higher grade dials/bracelets. They might have sapphire crystals, do not know for sure. Some of the later DG3804 models came with 7.0mm crowns because they used the same case as a submariner. Later genuine GMT also went to a 7.0mm triplock crown but not this model. The lower grade DG models mostly had solid link bracelets and plastic movement spacers. So...if you can find one of the ETA 16710 models they are Ok, the 16750/1675 models not so much but they are Ok mechanically. Submariners...U R On Your Own. It is a mine field to say the least and I know more about reeeplica GMT models than submareeeners. By-Tor put a picture of his swiss ETA GMT up a while back from an April 10, 2008 'for sale' post: https://rwg.cc/topic/193082-some-old-rep-pics-of-mine/?tab=comments#comment-1547920&searchlight=1

No doubt 3D printed cases are possible but they probably will still need quite a bit of finish machining. Since rolex type cases/case backs can be stamped out of stainless steel sheet metal, this method is fast and cheap with only the press and various stamping dies being expensive. You can probably stamp out a hundred rolex type mid cases in the time it takes to rough out a hand full of 3D cases. Stamping out parts is one of the cheapest and fastest production methods ever devised and a 'job shop' that does production stamping could stamp them out for not much $$ with only the stamping dies costing very much. Finish machining would probably cost the most of any of the operations. Modern automated finish machining is not overly expensive but detail finishing by hand will be. Powder metal cases...Seiko made a few runs of cases using powdered metal formed under heat and pressure (powder injection molding) 10 or 15 years back. Their claim was it was easier to make intricately shaped cases. They were Ok but nothing special, had one and traded it off...Kinetic iirc. Big $$… I remember when 'a guy' in NYC sold stainless 'ratty dial submariners' with solid screw link bracelets and ST16 movements for $35 each 12 or 14 years ago. It made me wonder how much it actually cost to crank them out. He said he paid $12 each in China and bought space in a container and had them shipped over to NYC by the hundreds. The dials were painted black but no lettering, he had that done in NYC...the reason for the 'ratty' tag. He also had all steel DJ with pretty good dials (lettered in China), jubilee style bracelets, and ST16 for $50 or so (do not know how much they cost in China). Same 36mm 16200 type cases you see today, they were made for ETA 2836/DG 2812 D/D movements, not 2824 size movements. Oem spec crystals/bezels would fit and they did not have lug holes. http://goceram.se/powder-injection-molding.htm

"In my case, since gen Rolex parts will always increase in value, why cash-out if you do not have to? Or, at least, that is my conclusion. Your mileage may vary." I appreciate the replies. f333: You are right about this. Other than an Eta or other non original type movement, many Frankensteins can not be identified by anyone other than an 'expert' and my guess is many will fool the experts. In my particular case, one big factor is my age and it is the main reason for the change in my attitude about Frankensteins. There are quite a few RWG members who are no longer 'spring chickens' and with age comes knowledge (maybe not so much) but changes in attitudes for sure...just ask Jimmy Buffett. MeEx: "For other pieces, which are more for fun, then I am absolutely willing to use ETA movements in those." I agree. Etas are ideal daily wear movements...low cost and reliable. As of now I have not removed any of the 15xx movements from my small 'Fleet of 'Frankensteins'...(5512, 5513, 1680) but I am planning to finish c/o the 1520 in the 5513, it's been apart for a year or so. Once in a while I will put one of the 15xx powered F-stein watches on and wear it for a few days because they seem to be very efficient auto winders and a few hours of wearing one will keep it running where the average Eta, A/S etc will often stop overnight. I must admit I am mostly a quartz watch guy (Accutron II now) and much earlier an Accutron 214/218 guy starting in 1971. Before that it was 'dollar biscuit' one jewel pocket watches and Timex. I have not put the 15xx movements in expensive cases, the 5512 and 5513 are MBK cases and the 1680 is a DW case. I have some supposedly 'higher grade' cases (Yuki 5512 and 5513, Phong 1655, IG44 1680) but have not put movements in them. The 1655 case is slightly used and since I finally have all the GMT parts for it, I may stick it together because I do not have anywhere else to go with the movement other than selling it. Jimmy Buffett - Changes In Latitudes, Changes In Attitudes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Apu3HRjSpu4

I still have mine! 'Noobmariner 101' for anyone who does not know about the 'noobmariner': https://rwg.cc/topic/13184-review-of-rolex-16610-submariner-noobmariner/ https://rwg.cc/topic/148265-got-a-noobmariner-very-impressed (the above has been referred to many times but it is hard to find) A 'noobmariner' turned into a 16800: https://rwg.cc/topic/77302-rolex-submariner-16800-and-168000/ May 2010: 'kloshar' "Where does it's reputation come from?" 'KBH' "In the early days of rep collecting, when there were only a few good subs available, two stood out above the rest. The Noobmariner and the MBK/MBW. The Noobmariner got its name when Pugwash did a review of the two of them and coined the term because it was cheap and therefor bought by lots of noobs (newbs). The Noob was sold by a few dealers including TTK and also Narikaa. The Noob was easily identified by the serial numbers they used on there case" (the original noobmariner was F520117)

"Anyone knows when the 703 was introduced (if ever) on 5513?" If you look at pictures of 1982 to 1987 5513 they all have 3 dot type crowns on printed and applied marker models. Some might be 702 (both are 'triplock') but the main difference is the smooth area at the lower edge of the crown for the extra O ring on the outside of the case tube. 'Triplock' = two O rings inside the case tube and one under the crown cap. When there is one at the base of the crown, it is not counted. Factoids: No mater how many O rings the rolex crown/tube combo has, the same amount of pressure is applied to the one little bitty gasket between the case tube and case. That's why a high quality single O ring non screw down crown can go 50 meters or more and a double O ring crown can go 200 to 300 meters with no problem. One O ring crowns are good most of the time. Two O ring crowns can dive so deep your head will cave in. Three O ring clowns crowns can make it to the bottom of a 1000 meter deep vat of Night Train wine. Imho. https://shop.hodinkee.com/products/1982-rolex-submariner-reference-5513?variant=40591426767 https://shop.hodinkee.com/products/1987-rolex-submariner-reference-5513?variant=5435023654927

"Yep, that is correct, 5512 PCG's are slightly thinner. No idea on the exact height." "I don't know the exact thickness. But I've had this discussion with Rolojack and he informed me that early 60s especially 5512 PCGs have thinner midcases." Some additional 5512/13 information (may have to copy/paste the links): http://hypebeast.com/2012/2/retrospect-1961-rolex-crown-guard-submariner-5512-chronometer-version https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/vintagerolexforum/couple-of-sub-questions-t37447.html https://rwg.cc/topic/186246-phong-5513-pointed-crownguard-case-rehaut-opening-question/ https://rwg.cc/topic/189490-rolex-5513-with-pointed-crown-guards-pics-of-during-and-after/

Always liked the 214 Spaceview. The Bulova/Citizen 50th Anniversary 214 Spaceview reissue was very pricey, around $3k and they did not make a lot of them. They are known to be of the highest quality. This might be the next Spaceview: https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/citizen-electrostatic-accutron-concept-movement-introducing Bulova/Citizen 50th Anniversary Spaceview: http://www.accutrons.com/accutron-spaceview-50th-anniversary Btw, in the TV series 'Nash Bridges' Don Johnson wore a Spaceview. ...and drove a Hemi 'Cuda ragtop. Sorta. The 'Cudas: https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1077305_nash-bridges-1970-plymouth-cuda-convertible-for-sale-on-ebay https://www.lowtek.com/nash/cudas/

"Hi, does anyone has deal with this web site before? I'd ordered a 1675 case and paid more than 950 EUR through the Western Union. At the beginning, the guy reply promptly and nice. But after the payment been made. There are no any respond for two days..." Imho... Since many of these guys are a looong way from where most of us live while using fake names etc, they can screw with us at their leisure if it is in their nature and we can not retaliate. Besides that, my guess is many of them do not even have what they advertise for sale and do not start hunting for the item until after they get the $$. Anyone can set up a website with a few pictures of cases, dials etc and sell from the site with zero stock. I knew a guy that 'knew a guy' that could find anything you wanted in replicas and he did not know anything about replicas. He just 'knew a guy'. I suspect many of the replica watches/parts vendors are like this. Otoh, a few are probably skilled 'detailers' or 'know a guy' who is and they buy $35 cases and turn them into $650 cases. In their spare time they look through a few dozen $20 dials to pick out two or three '$250' dials. Example... In 2005 or 2006 I asked 'a guy' to get some submariner dials for Eta movements. He wrote back in a few days and asked "How many? They are $10USD each." Probably $20 by now.

"Liking the Bulova better." Me too. I was scratching around in my project box and found a Mido Commander 'Prez' with Eta 2834 and dark red dial with acrylic crystal. Forgot about having it. It looks almost new (with box) but has the common 'Mido Ailment'...case tube/crown gasket fell apart, it is made out of cork. There is one on eBay...item number 352633834389

Oniss also had a Prez look-alike with Eta 2834 similar to the Bulova Super Seville. Picture from tz-uk.com in early 2012: https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.php?208298-President-style-watches

"I found that giving it about 20 winds twice a day will maintain the accuracy to about 3-5 seconds a day while wearing." In my experience...Eta 28xx automatics do not take kindly to hand winding other than 20 or 25 turns to get a movement going. They have a somewhat fragile autowind assembly (finicky reversers) and the crown wheel post made on the movement plate can wear rapidly if not lubricated properly because of the added friction of the autowind assembly when hand winding. When the reversers get dry or dirty, hand winding friction markedly increases causing more wear on winding parts. The 2801 series manual wind movements have no autowind parts so this reduces friction and wear when hand winding. I have worn a lot of Eta 28xx automatics and most will keep time within 10 or 12 sec/day when worn, many may be better. If they are laid down or put on a winder the rate may change. Most tend to become a bit erratic when not worn enough to keep them wound up or when getting close to running down. Imho... Quartz watches, accuracy claims, and screw down crowns have spoiled today's mech watch wearers (including me). Quartz watches because they are accurate, rugged, and basically trouble free. Accuracy claims by 'COSC' etc. tested watches. Screw down crowns because they make time correction more of a hassle. Trivia... In the old days Hamilton Watch Company used to brag about their RR Approved watches having 'Railroad Accuracy'. What was 'Railroad Accuracy'? Officially it was plus or minus 15 seconds a day...with a catch. The catch...All crew member watches had to be within 15 seconds of each other and within 15 seconds of the 'Official Time' when checked against the 'Chief Train Dispatcher's Official Time' when going on duty. Who must have a 'RR Approved' watch? All Transportation Department company officials, all train crew members, all dispatchers, all station agents, all Trainmasters/Road Foremen, and anyone in track maintenance management positions and/or anyone that worked where trains were running or were affected by train movements. Division Superintendent = the person in charge of a certain RR Division. Assistant Division Superintendent = assistant to the Div Supt (usually more than one). Division Engineer = the top official over the T&S of a division. T&S = all track and structures (all tracks, company land, and buildings). 'T&S' could also mean 'Track and Surface' if you were in the track/surface department etc. 'Surface' = land close to where the track was including the 'ballast' (rock). crossties, tie plates, spikes switches etc. Master Mechanic = the official over rolling stock, but not locomotives. Chief Electrician = over diesel/electric locomotives. Chief Dispatcher = the Train Dispatcher in charge of all train movements on their division. It was usually also an Assistant Division Superintendent position. Trainmaster = an official in charge of train crews on the division. Usually the division was split up with different Trainmasters being in charge of certain parts of it. Road Foreman = an official in charge of locomotive engineers and engineer trainees. They also had authority over other crew members, but mainly engineers and trainees. Trainmasters and Road Foremen were on duty 24/7 and had company cars and expense accounts. Many burned out, a few had to be 'reprogrammed' and some were 'retired' early for 'stress related issues'. Then there was the Mechanical Department over locomotives and rolling stock and the Signal Department over stationary train signals, electric switches etc. Etc, etc.

I have been watching rolex 1520, 1560, 1570 no date and date movement and parts prices rise for the past 10 or 12 years. My conclusion from the rise in prices is a movement alone is now worth more than the value it might add to a 'Frankenstein' 1016, 5512/13, 1680, 1665, 1655/75 etc. Right or Wrong? For this reason, I am thinking about removing all 15xx movements from Frankensteins and sticking Etas in them or selling the cases/dials/bracelets for parts. I have a few cases for the movements so I can sell the movements 'naked' or in a case. Good or Bad idea? I am rapidly coming to the end of the run with these things because I have genuine watches needing attention so I can sell them and do not wear 'steins/replicas very often now.

Double Post. Erased this one.

"On a related topic, would you get the ETA or the Clone movement?" I like swiss ETA because they are reliable, relatively cheap, and parts are available. Etaclones...not a fan. The 'good' 3135 look-alike is Ok from what I have read. The other 3135 clone...not so good. Afaik the 'good' 3135 clone is easy to spot because the reversers are all red like genuine and the 'bad clone' reversers have red tops and silver colored teeth. "Hah, none of my vintage Rolex are less than 37 years old!" My oldest rlx is a 1956 model and the newest has a cal 3130, probably about 10 years old. Never have worn either one, never will...the '56 because it has a 'npfu' 1065 mvt and the AK because I am allergic to rlx with sapphire crystals. I wear an Accutron II most of the time anyway. "I am old and reps are getting too expensive for my tastes." You and me both.

"Do you know if a Tudor sub caseback will fit a 5513 case? I’ve seen some of those here and there." I do not know for sure but the older tudor subs looked like rolex cases of the same era. Had a genuine toot no date sub a few years ago with rolex signed folded oyster bracelet but I gave it away. ...gave it away! (3-17-01)

"Measure the inside diameter of the threads in the case where the back screws in..." The oem spec on the case back threads is 30.9mm and for 55xx and 1680 the gasket should be mounted in the case back. SD is mounted in the case. I have seen some replica cases made for 15xx movements with gaskets in the case back but with 30.4mm case back threads...a few DW cases for instance. Seems that Yuki has dropped the 55xx cases and backs. "I have a MilSub caseback I don't need that might fit. It doesn't fit my MBW." My MBW/MBK cases will accept 30.9mm case backs. I put a 30.9mm thread size DW case back on one because the DW case back was stamped/engraved and the MBK was lightly laser etched (appeared to be). Yuki case back threads are also 30.9mm...just now measured one.

"May I ask where are the sales forums??" Go to the home page and click on 'Trading Zone' and then click on Watches, Tools and Parts, or Straps and Bracelets.

"He can be tricky to deal with. I wasn’t happy with his service or quality of the case I bought from him last time. I wouldn’t buy from him again." Sad but true. Pang... In my experience you are usually better off to buy parts from forum members, especially when starting out. The problem now is the sales forum has slowed down quite a bit and you may have to wait to find what you want. I have had good luck in the past with Yuki and a few others but the key word is 'lucky'. Something else...any of them can completely disappear from one day to the next. One thing you can always count on...the quality of the products can be inconsistent to say the least so if you get a good case or dial, hang on to it because the next one may not be as good.

Always liked that song. A man with a new, shiny mechanical watch knows exactly what time it is. A man with two new, shiny mechanical watches is not so sure...

Looks good! Quartz is hard to beat. Accurate. Reliable. Not fragile like a mechanical watch.

"The area that leaks in most watches is the crown. The case tube o-rings, or the crown is not tight enough. I don't think you should take a gen into salt water, let alone a rep." +1 Another place to look for leaks is where the case tube screws into the case. I use a Bergeon 5555/98 to find leaks with the movement out of the watch. I put a regular Schrader air valve like used on aluminum wheels in place of the pressure release valve and can pump it up as high as 100 psi (6 or 7 atm) with an air tank, not with the pissant pump on the tester. The catch is air will escape from between the bezel and case plus anywhere air is trapped first test or two making it hard to pinpoint the leak but sooner or later you can narrow it down to exactly where it is. Fancy high pressure, very high $$ dry testers are Ok but they are not too hot for finding where the leak is unless it puffs smoke in the dome. If the leak is big enough it can blow the crystal out...the reason for removing the movement. Sometimes you can run up on an old Bergeon 5555 for not much $$ and convert it to a 5555/98 with the higher pressure kit for around $200. Money spent on a tester beats a box of rusty Etas...or a rlx 1570 (I have one of them already).

"Cleaning gold is very different to cleaning steel." I use a double sided 'Fabulustre' cloth to remove tarnish and polish the surface if needed. It has a very mild polishing compound applied to the (red) cloth and the other side is a soft (light yellow) polishing cloth. When using polishing compound on a soft cloth (I use mostly Wenol Ultra Soft), it is a good idea to apply the compound to the polishing cloth and rub it in the cloth and not apply it directly to the watch. When you apply the paste directly to the object it can sling into spaces between bezels etc. I do not use powered buffers on solid gold, especially 18k, hand polish only. Besides removing too much material, powered polishing wheels can catch an object and send it into orbit. A few of my friends are in the gold and diamond buying/trading/selling business and they can usually spot solid gold watches right off. I can tell sometimes but do not have an exact explanation why but it may be because solid gold has a warm, subdued appearance and plating is usually shiny and harsh.